Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

So umm Elwar put his seastead in the water on 2 February and hasn’t posted since 5 February.  Is that right ?

Has anyone heard from him?

try here

https://www.seasteadtalk.org/

Cool false alarm.  He last posted there on 15 Feb and is showing as active today so he's ok.  Probably too busy drinking rum and lying in the sun. 

[mindrust]

When was the last time Bitcoin had an emergency hard fork?

Doesn't mean we won't need it in the future. What if we need one?

[HairyMaclairy]

When was the last time Bitcoin had an emergency hard fork?

Doesn't mean we won't need it in the future. What if we need one?

There has never been an emergency hardfork on Bitcoin.

For an emergency hardfork to happen on Bitcoin, would require an existential threat to the network.  In those circumstances you better shut your channels right smart.  

If the hard fork destroys the lighting network and you cannot close your channels in time, tough shit.  The integrity of main net takes precedence and everyone knows it.  Maybe you will lose your coins locked to lightning, maybe the person who gets them will be honourable and return them, maybe the hard fork will force close channels.  Who knows.  Lightning is intended for low value, high volume payments.  It is not intended to be as secure as main net.  

Security is expensive, horrifically so in a decentralised context.  If you want strong security, don't put anything on lighting. 

Keep in mind we are talking about a very low probability event.  Bitcoin is riddled with low probability events that could destroy it.  Quantum computing, global government ban, SHA-256 is broken, all intel/amd processors get backdoored etc etc.  

[cool4y]

https://medium.com/@BtcpayServer/btcpay-payment-request-get-paid-in-bitcoin-by-sharing-a-url-803588ebe333  That' d be really useful for bitcoiners who wish to be paid in the only real world currency.

[mindrust]

When was the last time Bitcoin had an emergency hard fork?

Doesn't mean we won't need it in the future. What if we need one?

There has never been an emergency hardfork on Bitcoin.

For an emergency hardfork to happen on Bitcoin, would require an existential threat to the network.  In those circumstances you better shut your channels right smart.  

If the hard fork destroys the lighting network and you cannot close your channels in time, tough shit.  The integrity of main net takes precedence and everyone knows it.  Maybe you will lose your coins locked to lightning, maybe the person who gets them will be honourable and return them, maybe the hard fork will force close channels.  Who knows.  Lightning is intended for low value, high volume payments.  It is not intended to be as secure as main net.  

Security is expensive, horrifically so in a decentralised context.  If you want strong security, don't put anything on lighting.  

Keep in mind we are talking about a very low probability event.  Bitcoin is riddled with low probability events that could destroy it.  Quantum computing, global government ban, SHA-256 is broken, all intel/amd processors get backdoored etc etc.  

I am not only talking about security threats.

What if we need to upgrade the network via hf? What if we suddenly decide to increase the block size? or implement some other feature which can only be added via hf?

Then what?

I feel a bit trapped tbh.

People need to close their channels and gtfo immediately I see... At least there is a way but if the LN gets toooooooo big (i mean big corporation level big like microsoft, apple, mcdonalds and starbucks using it, that might be a problem.)

[HairyMaclairy]

What if we need to upgrade the network via hf? What if we suddenly decide to increase the block size? or implement some other feature which can only be added via hf?

Then what?

Block size changes or other features are not an emergency.  

If a hard fork is necessary, and the community agrees to the change, then it can be planned in advance.  The most likely outcome is that lightning would not skip a beat.  Keep in mind that the only interaction between lightning and main net is opening and closing a multi-sig transaction.  A block increase should not, all other things being equal, have any impact on an open multi-sig transaction.  A planned hard fork can test in advance and address any potential bugs.  

Keep in mind that the entire ethos of Bitcoin development is not to have any hard forks so we are still talking about a very low probability event.  

Edit:

People need to close their channels and gtfo immediately I see... At least there is a way but if the LN gets toooooooo big (i mean big corporation level big like microsoft, apple, mcdonalds and starbucks using it, that might be a problem.)

Also if parties are cooperating, they can close their channels instantly.  They dont need an onchain transaction to close.  I get your point about how potentially it could make hard forks harder, but a hard fork doesn't have to affect lightning at all.  It probably wouldnt.  

[bitserve]

Anyone knows if there is already any service of "proxy" online LN wallet?

I mean, something that would work like this:

- I send, for example, 0.1BTC to their wallet (my deposit address) same as I do with an exchange.

- Now I have a 0.1BTC balance with them (not your keys, not your BTC... I know)

- Then, the service would let me send LN payments which they would route via their LN node and already established channels on my behalf and substract the amount (plus a fee, presumably) from my balance.

- A plus would also be the possibility of creating LN invoices and receiving payments in the same way above and an easy to use mobile phone APP.

Anyone?

[yoraccoon]

Anyone knows if there is already any service of "proxy" online LN wallet?

I mean, something that would work like this:

- I send, for example, 0.1BTC to their wallet (my deposit address) same as I do with an exchange.

- Now I have a 0.1BTC balance with them (not your keys, not your BTC... I know)

- Then, the service would let me send LN payments which they would route via their LN node and already established channels on my behalf and substract the amount (plus a fee, presumably) from my balance.

- A plus would also be the possibility of creating LN invoices and receiving payments in the same way above and an easy to use mobile phone APP.

Anyone?

Check out Blue Wallet - might be the thing you are looking for. It is only available as a mobile app though. As for LN invoices, if you plan to use it in e-commerce, you can check out Open Node plugin (for woocommerce), but simple requests can be created in BW app too.
Hope that helps!

[bitserve]

Anyone knows if there is already any service of "proxy" online LN wallet?

I mean, something that would work like this:

- I send, for example, 0.1BTC to their wallet (my deposit address) same as I do with an exchange.

- Now I have a 0.1BTC balance with them (not your keys, not your BTC... I know)

- Then, the service would let me send LN payments which they would route via their LN node and already established channels on my behalf and substract the amount (plus a fee, presumably) from my balance.

- A plus would also be the possibility of creating LN invoices and receiving payments in the same way above and an easy to use mobile phone APP.

Anyone?

Check out Blue Wallet - might be the thing you are looking for. It is only available as a mobile app though. As for LN invoices, if you plan to use it in e-commerce, you can check out Open Node plugin (for woocommerce), but simple requests can be created in BW app too.
Hope that helps!

Wow, yeah! That looks exactly like what I was looking for. Thanks!

https://bluewallet.io/lightning/

[DeathAngel]

Nah.  We are supposed to track sideways until October 2019.  No manipulation required.

https://twitter.com/rogerquantrillo/status/1100404411661074439

Proof of Hairy

That’d be great if we stay in a sideways trend for that long, I should be able to buy another 3 or 4 whole bitcoin’s in that length of time.

Load up before moon launch gentlemen.

[Ipwich]

Nah.  We are supposed to track sideways until October 2019.  No manipulation required.

https://twitter.com/rogerquantrillo/status/1100404411661074439

Proof of Hairy

That’d be great if we stay in a sideways trend for that long, I should be able to buy another 3 or 4 whole bitcoin’s in that length of time.

Load up before moon launch gentlemen.

When moon?

I am already loaded up and waiting, I don't think buying more would be a wise idea since I can't afford anymore,  unless I have to mortgage my house.

[vroom]

where did this massive volume came from at the end of 2016? will this happen again in the next bullrun?

[Globb0]

Free willy?

Hungover today, bleargh

[bakasabo]

Free willy?

Hungover today, bleargh

I have some medicine for you buddy

[El duderino_]

Free willy?

Hungover today, bleargh

then join.... WO+bagel/sandwich+black coffee= best hangover cure

a massive pump could help as well of-course

* who is far more  stupider? *

[ivomm]

where did this massive volume came from at the end of 2016? will this happen again in the next bullrun?

From China's exchanges with 0% trading fees. That volume was completely fake. Speaking of volume, currently it is very low. On Bitfinex it is around 5.5K BTC's in the last 24 hours. The lowest this year was 3-4K. On Bitstamp, Binance and Coinbase the volume is around that or even higher! Considering that most miners are looking to sell for fiat, they will choose Biftinex, which has higher prices. Miners will prefer however, to withdraw once per month if the amount is less than 1mil us. Thus they pay lower fee (0.1%), otherwise they have to pay 3% fee. Since every day 1800 new Bitcoins are mined, if all go to Bitfinex, they will form 1/3 or even 1/2 of the daily volume. The halvening will triger the volume higher than the volume in Q1-Q3 of 2017 after China's exchanges were forced to place trade fees. That volume was 2.5-5-10x the current volume. That's why the halvening in 2020 will have a huge impact on the price.

[El duderino_]

https://twitter.com/RedditBTC/status/1100683757546287104

paashaas how many nodes do you have running? 

[Last of the V8s]

where did this massive volume came from at the end of 2016? will this happen again in the next bullrun?

there was no-fee trading on 3 exchanges then so it's very skewed
to get a truer picture of volume go here https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/5y?c=e&t=b
and uncheck huobi, okcoin and btcchina
note that that site has not added binance, so is not accurate for recent times

[Gyrsur]

Anyone knows if there is already any service of "proxy" online LN wallet?

I mean, something that would work like this:

- I send, for example, 0.1BTC to their wallet (my deposit address) same as I do with an exchange.

- Now I have a 0.1BTC balance with them (not your keys, not your BTC... I know)

- Then, the service would let me send LN payments which they would route via their LN node and already established channels on my behalf and substract the amount (plus a fee, presumably) from my balance.

- A plus would also be the possibility of creating LN invoices and receiving payments in the same way above and an easy to use mobile phone APP.

Anyone?

Check out Blue Wallet - might be the thing you are looking for. It is only available as a mobile app though. As for LN invoices, if you plan to use it in e-commerce, you can check out Open Node plugin (for woocommerce), but simple requests can be created in BW app too.
Hope that helps!

Wow, yeah! That looks exactly like what I was looking for. Thanks!

https://bluewallet.io/lightning/

how it works, damn Irish Pub'ers. 

[Phil_S]

If we could stay sideways until at least March 31 that would be fine with me...