Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Nemo1024]

Woke up this morning to see Gox @135? WTH? They dropped to a pre-October level!
Can somebody shoot them for distorting the market picture?

[1714671982]

1714671982

[1714671982]

1714671982

[barbs]

so turns out buyign back in at 200$ premium (940$) at the tiem to get my coins off gox asap, but then got stuck in limbo, and were returned to me right before a crash and I didnt sell, was a seriies of terrible moves.

Mark - Mark - where are you - too much whipped cream to issue a press release about why your exchange is now FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS OFF BITSTAMP???

[medialab101]

5:25 here in Japan... and still we wait...

[ChrisML]

That was rock bottom. Rock it was indeed.

Fuck me. From now on, upwards jebus.

And get that announcement out.

[virtualfaqs]

Anyone buying on Bitcoinbuilder.com? price seems to be hovering at .5

If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.

[Vycid]

Well, those GoxCoins I bought seem to be proving to be an expensive lesson.

Ah well, capitulation time. Down with the ship.

[Rannasha]

Considering that Gox again did not push out the update during regular business hours, I feel that it is unlikely that they've fixed withdrawals. If they'd be done, why delay?

[Keyser Soze]

If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.

I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...

[medialab101]

5:25 here in Japan... and still we wait...

ANy local knowledge you can share on the new Gox premises?

Is it a move up or down from their current location?

Unfortunately no, I'm in Kyoto

[windjc]

Well, those GoxCoins I bought seem to be proving to be an expensive lesson.

Ah well, capitulation time. Down with the ship.

Always darkest before dawn. I think it's about 3am. 

[dreamspark]

wish I had like 10k on gox 

[Chalkbot]

They don't really have coins in Gox, do they? It's the only scenario that makes sense.  Which is more likely, from a logistical standpoint; Gox enables BTC withdrawals, or Gox enables USD withdrawals? I think most people would answer BTC withdrawals (in the absence of anything shady going on). So.... If you had one or the other stuck in there, which asset would you roll the dice on? The huge sells down to $13X, or whatever it is now, would indicate that the majority feel it's more likely that they will get USD out of Gox in the future. What? How could anyone believe that? (in the absence of some other knowledge).

The prices being 25% of what they are on other exchanges would suggest that it's a 4:1 majority who feel this way. That's just nuts. If they are insolvent, you aren't getting either (so why trade for the depreciated asset?), and if it's really just a technical glitch, that every other BTC exchange in the world has already fixed, then the expectation would be that Gox should eventually stumble upon the fix as well. Both of these scenarios would lead me to hold BTC, not Goxbux, were I forced to make that choice. Gox has been working to find a bank to process withdrawals for months with no success, all the while they are becoming a less desirable business partner in the eyes of the world. The idea that USD is going to be the winning asset to hold there is the worst possible assumption.

So what am I suggesting? There are no BTC there. They are just moving numbers around inside a ledger for commission, in a desperate bid for solvency. Selling their fake BTC to anyone willing to pay anything, while halting withdrawals on the only known technical glitch which could affect them somehow. Curious they were the first to encounter and announce this huge problem with bitcoin, and the last to sort it out. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

So I'm becoming reasonably certain that insolvency is the real issue, but it's hard to know how deep in it they are. If it's just a few thousand BTC, perhaps this stunt will close the gap. They buy back the BTC they owe on other exchanges or OTC with all the commission they took selling fake coins, and limit withdrawals exactly right to slowly climb back into the black, and nobody ever knows how close they came to collapse. But if it's an impossibly wide gap, they waited too long, and no stunt is going to close it, what are they doing right now? Maybe they are trying to work out a deal with a large BTC holder to cover their position until they can right the ship in exchange for part of the commissions. I can't think of any other good way out of it.

[barbs]

I had 5300 euros, bought in for about 6.25 btc and now its worth a tiny, tiny fraction of that.

Boom! Bam! Goxed! again! when will I learn! well, this time, but then again everyone did, sot hat money is probably gone. That was all my btc profits, and now i'm down by 600$ actually.

Hoping funds in bitstamp would help me make some of that back but we aint moving from 600.

If i get my 6 btc back... and never see gox again... this will be my ideal situation, but then aggain i think everyone is on this same page.

[virtualfaqs]

If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.

I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...

Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question.

[barbs]

After careful analysis and spreadsheet algorithms, i've decided to sodl the btc i bought at 920$ goxbux for 150$ - it will pay off long term.

[micalith]

I'm still amazed to see how Gox could feasibly go to zero, whilst the others might only reach $500

[podyx]

i like that they still have this logo
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdump.bitcheese.net%2Fimages%2Fotazuki%2Fmtgox-header.png&t=537&c=tPbkzg2-lyL4Rg

[virtualfaqs]

They don't really have coins in Gox, do they? It's the only scenario that makes sense.  Which is more likely, from a logistical standpoint; Gox enables BTC withdrawals, or Gox enables USD withdrawals? I think most people would answer BTC withdrawals (in the absence of anything shady going on). So.... If you had one or the other stuck in there, which asset would you roll the dice on? The huge sells down to $13X, or whatever it is now, would indicate that the majority feel it's more likely that they will get USD out of Gox in the future. What? How could anyone believe that? (in the absence of some other knowledge).

The prices being 25% of what they are on other exchanges would suggest that it's a 4:1 majority who feel this way. That's just nuts. If they are insolvent, you aren't getting either (so why trade for the depreciated asset?), and if it's really just a technical glitch, that every other BTC exchange in the world has already fixed, then the expectation would be that Gox should eventually stumble upon the fix as well. Both of these scenarios would lead me to hold BTC, not Goxbux, were I forced to make that choice. Gox has been working to find a bank to process withdrawals for months with no success, all the while they are becoming a less desirable business partner in the eyes of the world. The idea that USD is going to be the winning asset to hold there is the worst possible assumption.

So what am I suggesting? There are no BTC there. They are just moving numbers around inside a ledger for commission, in a desperate bid for solvency. Selling their fake BTC to anyone willing to pay anything, while halting withdrawals on the only known technical glitch which could affect them somehow. Curious they were the first to encounter and announce this huge problem with bitcoin, and the last to sort it out. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

So I'm becoming reasonably certain that insolvency is the real issue, but it's hard to know how deep in it they are. If it's just a few thousand BTC, perhaps this stunt will close the gap. They buy back the BTC they owe on other exchanges or OTC with all the commission they took selling fake coins, and limit withdrawals exactly right to slowly climb back into the black, and nobody ever knows how close they came to collapse. But if it's an impossibly wide gap, they waited too long, and no stunt is going to close it, what are they doing right now? Maybe they are trying to work out a deal with a large BTC holder to cover their position until they can right the ship in exchange for part of the commissions. I can't think of any other good way out of it.

The problem is that MtGox PR department has been terrible up to this point. Otherwise I'm guessing the panic wouldn't be as crazy. And one of the theories is it's easier to sue based on a $$$ value rather than amount of BTC value.

[gizmoh]

If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.

I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...

Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question.

Josh is a market maker, he doesn't own any Gox-btc apart from the 2% fee on buy orders. Buyers of Gox-btc do. They reap the reward or take the hit.

[aminorex]

Josh is a market maker, he doesn't own any Gox-btc apart from the 2% fee on buy orders. Buyers of Gox-btc do. They reap the reward or take the hit.

That's not what "market maker" means, usually, BTW.  Just sayin'.