Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[KeyserSoze]

This "academic" is just posting like a noob. It borders on the trollish but I'll give the benefit of the doubt and put it down to arrogance.

This is what I'm thinking now.

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[KeyserSoze]

Possibly even Mark found a mouse's head in his frappuccino

lol

[kickinyou]

Testing the end of the triangle...

Wich way do you speculate that it will go ?

[kkaspar]

Bitcoin code is not set in stone. Basically whatever the majority of miners uses as a protocol is bitcoin.

It feels like it's set in stone, because there are no development or even open discussions on important aspects, like the one I brought forward in my previous post. It's ignored and everyone are just enjoying getting rich with abusing the hype. Litecoin and other altcoins also use the "bitcoin protocol", and because of that, they are suffering from the same problems.
If there were some responsible people around, then someone would say: "Hey, stop this wasteful nonsense! let's figure it out how to build a network that actually makes sense!".

[KeyserSoze]

That said, I too appreciate Jorge's contribution to the form and consider him a man of wealth and taste.  That makes his ideas all the more perniciously misleading.

Is this a Rolling Stones reference?  
"Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste"

[KeyserSoze]

Jorge is an intelligent individual who makes a meaningful contribution here.  I hope that he sticks around! So that bitcoin can eventually win him over LOL. 

+1

[adamstgBit]

you'd think there would be SOME rise in price on gox in anticipation of the btc withdrawals coming back online soon.

seems everyone has lost all hope for gox

[raid_n]

Bitcoin code is not set in stone. Basically whatever the majority of miners uses as a protocol is bitcoin.

It feels like it's set in stone, because there are no development or even open discussions on important aspects, like the one I brought forward in my previous post. It's ignored and everyone are just enjoying getting rich with abusing the hype. Litecoin and other altcoins also use the "bitcoin protocol", and because of that, they are suffering from the same problems.
If there were some responsible people around, then someone would say: "Hey, stop this wasteful nonsense! let's figure it out how to build a network that actually makes sense!".

Let me guess: you are all for proof of stake /nxt/ripple etc. [edit] just to clarify, ripple of course does not use PoS, I just mentioned it as some alternative

It is really good that cryptocurrencies are diversifying and exploring new options.
At the end of the day you want to be 100% sure that it works. A fundamental flaw in mining would instantly vaporize bitcoin.
These alternative approaches are young and when the time comes proven new alternatives to mining should be contemplated.

Just to get you thinking: Mining is based on the premise that you can't deterministically predict when the next block is mined. This is really important to weaken potential attacks
Peercoin actually does a really smart thing by interleaving "traditional" mining with stake mining. That way the next stake addresses are chosen in a more random way to avoid potential predictions
I have not looked at nxt code so I can't comment there.

Imagine for instance what would happen if you computed the next stake address through a hash of the curernt block including transactions.
An attacker could try and permute the transaction queue until he finds a hash that is one of his addresses. That way he essentially takes control of all stake mining

New alternatives will come but this does not happen over night. Proof of work is a really solid method despite its flaws with large pooled mining

[seldon]

you'd think there would be SOME rise in price on gox in anticipation of the btc withdrawals coming back online soon.

seems everyone has lost all hope for gox

True.. still seems funny to "panic sell" virtual currency into virtual dollars - as if chances are any higher getting one of the two if gox goes belly up.

[billyjoeallen]

When we buy bitcoin, the money goes either directly or indirectly to the miners (the employees) who secure the network.  

"The securing of network" part went away after coming of pools. With pools, the general network hash rate doesn't mean anything in terms of security of bitcoin. Only thing that matters now is the number of pools and the security of pools.
Bitcoin security was created in a way that network isn't concentrated anywhere, and everyone can do their fair part in handling the network. You can tell that bitcoin was never designed to be this big, because it's distribution system only could handle solo mining to a certain level. That was the level to what bitcoin was designed to evolve.
Pools were abominations of the entire system, because the system intended for no centralization whatsoever. The proper crypto for this level of active users should not need any pools and everyone will get paid directly from the network. Only then, the increasing user base will also increase the security of the network. Otherwise it's just a bad joke..
The other problem came with the coming of ASICs, when another wave of useless wasting began. Bitcoin network used to be supported by hardware, that had other use for it. Now people are building hardware that's only purpose is to mine bitcoins. But the increasing hash rate doesn't improve security, or anything for that matter, so the building of ASICs is also actually doing empty work that doesn't actually improve anything. It's all just for trying to crab a bite of this cake of hype.

The future is in new cryptos, because bitcoin code is becoming more and more obsolete...

Pools don't make Bitcoin obsolete anymore than political parties make democracy obsolete. (democracy is obsolete, BTW, but not because of parties) Bitcoin works good enough, and substantially better than the alternatives. Newer cryptos may indeed have better code, and if and when they have ENOUGH better code to overcome Bitcoin's first mover advantage,then I'll switch. Proof of work is the most fair way to increase liquidity while maintaining scarcity. Sure, asics require capital. That's why it's called "capitalism". Real scarcity requires the imposition of real costs. artificial scarcity would give the maintainer of that scarcity too much power (yes you, central banks). altcryptos that utilize CPU mining could just "waste" those cpu cycles or else set off another mining arms race just as bad as the one we have now.

[mellowyellow]

Watch out guys, this downtrend is not wholly down to Gox.

http://www.coindesk.com/canadian-bank-cuts-cointrader-accounts-amid-hostile-government-rhetoric/

[dreamspark]

You would expect so, particularly as there are still people wiring money into gox.

[seleme]

Non related but have you guys seen that laszlo is back. Bitcoin pizza legend. He says he spent all his coins back then on those pizzas.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109.msg5149151#msg5149151

I'm relatively late adopter but was extremely lucky and successful trader and it's shame that I gain more wealth from Bitcoin than guy who contributed much more than I am (he also have built first GPU miner or one of the first and made it open source for community instead of mining the hell out of it)

I've sent him 1 BTC and I hope more people will join and tip laszlo.

[aminorex]

Testing the end of the triangle...

Wich way do you speculate that it will go ?

Up, until Gox withdrawals restart, then down while the market cap equalizes, until Gox coins go to a premium, then back up.

[aminorex]

Only thing that matters now is the number of pools and the security of pools.

Aye, and p2pool should be promulgated, and legacy pools deprecated.

[kkaspar]

At the end of the day you want to be 100% sure that it works. A fundamental flaw in mining would instantly vaporize bitcoin.

I think that wasteful mining is a fundamental flaw and an expensive mistake to make. I would accept the energy wasted by home cpu's, but when people are building large cloud mining facilities, then this madness has gone out of control. Projects with this magnitude shouldn't be done just to chase your own tail, even if someone pays you money for it.

These alternative approaches are young and when the time comes proven new alternatives to mining should be contemplated.

I agree that the alternatives are young and have to wait till their security is proven. That is why I think that bitcoin still has about 1-2 years of life left in it. That is the period that can be supported by pure hype, while ignoring the fact that the code actually is obsolete.

I have not looked at nxt code so I can't comment there.

I think that nxt is interesting but very raw at this stage. What makes it interesting is that it's not been build on bitcoin source, so it won't be affected with all these boundaries and dogmas, that come with "The Cult of Satoshi".
I can't speculate how it will develop, but the start is interesting.

[keithers]

you'd think there would be SOME rise in price on gox in anticipation of the btc withdrawals coming back online soon.

seems everyone has lost all hope for gox

It seems like the worry has shifted to Gox ultimately filing bankruptcy.   In that event, investors would be likely to sell all the can to get back into fiat, so that they may have a reasonable claim in court.  Since governments, and therefore the courts have not laid out specific guidelines on whether or not bitcoin is a currency, the likelihood of being able to recoup fiat from a bankruptcy is greater than the likelihood of being able to recoup btc.

[dreamspark]

Non related but have you guys seen that laszlo is back. Bitcoin pizza legend. He says he spent all his coins back then on those pizzas.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109.msg5149151#msg5149151

I'm relatively late adopter but was extremely lucky and successful trader and it's shame that I gain more wealth from Bitcoin than guy who contributed much more than I am (he also have built first GPU miner or one of the first and made it open source for community instead of mining the hell out of it)

I've sent him 1 BTC and I hope more people will join and tip laszlo.

Someone mentioned it on reddit last week and I enjoyed reading the thread again. Shame for him but he's so cool about it.

[KeyserSoze]

...big miners form a cartel to raise unilaterally the transaction fees.

Eventual cartel transaction fees is something I wonder about. It is a wonderful experiment though! I guess in the end as long as there remains competing currencies/payment systems, this would have to be kept in check by the market.

[KeyserSoze]

seems everyone has lost all hope for gox

There appears to be @$260 worth of hope at Gox.