Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Meuh6879]

[Karartma1]

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

But Bitcoin is dead, who cares?

Run Bitcoin Run!

[gentlemand]

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).

There's virtually no USD involved with Poloniex. It's not really any more valid than chucking a Chinese exchange in there.

[JayJuanGee]

The JJG character is a real tour de force for NLC/BMB.

The dedication is very impressive.

I wasn't sure there for a while but he won my heart with steadfast determination and a ruthless penchant for mesmerising blocks of text.

I gave up long time ago with most of his "blocks of text." ... The guy is just insane, pure batsh!t crazy! ... I wish sometimes he had a bit of empathy to make his text more readable from the readers perspective. I can tell... because I write as a hobby and when reading other people's work... I tend to get inside their mind very quickly and that annoys me. And when it comes to JJG ... he writes most of his stuff from a self centered perspective. And that makes it hard to read... its like trying to listen to a song/track with/composed of blackboard/chalkboard screechings.

You mean like Stolfi?  Maybe JJG and Stolfi are one and the same?  (JJG, if you are not Stolfi, then dude - just take a hint and get to the point faster, quit rambling, and drop the condescending attitude.   )

Speaking of which, where has ol' JorgyPorgy run off too?  I really miss his long-winded, diatribe-like, innane ramblings about how Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are completely doomed to fail. /S Paid trolls are so much fun to spot, because they are so obvious.

I could give a ratt's ass about the various disgruntled comments regarding either my style or content.

Further, if you had been paying any kind of attention Torque (even in a minuscule way), you would likely have noticed that Stolfi and I are quite different substantively in our viewpoints regarding bitcoin and our approach to investing in it (or not, supposedly, in the case of Stolfi).  So, if you, or anyone else are getting caught up in style and/or length of post, and believe that those factors indicate any material substance, then you (and those like minded superficial posters) are a bunch of fucking loonies.      


Regarding the activism of Stolfi, he does seem to continue to be fairly active in a variety of bitcoin forums, and surely, he still participates here from time to time and on a seemingly sporadic basis.  Recently, I also heard him being interviewed on Bitcoin Uncensored.  Personally, I think that they gave him too much benefit of the doubt in terms of his "genuine" analysis of bitcoin, because really he seems like a disingenuous sophisticated troll to me, but that is fine, his bitcoin uncensored interview was still informative in terms of covering a variety of current and ongoing bitcoin matters.

Edit:  Regarding Stolfi, I see that Elwar beat me to it, and provided a decent substantive post regarding such a matter.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg16392254#msg16392254

[JayJuanGee]

I do wonder about these megatrolls. What an astonishing waste of life it is to write and agitate about something you hate. It's not going to change anything and you're throwing your precious life away while doing it.

It seems fairly likely that Stolfi went to a place in which he would receive a better reception to his various absurd and insincere arguments.. And from the start, he did credibly indicate that he was participating in this wall observer thread because he perceived this thread to have a decent following and with an ability to get his message out there in a broad way... and so in that regard, it seems that he may have concluded that he gets his baloney message out there in a more effective and broader way by posting in other locations (outside of this particular thread).

[JayJuanGee]

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

But Bitcoin is dead, who cares?

Run Bitcoin Run!

I thought that this thread was about USD/BTC?

If you look at your link, the lead in USD is USD/ETH... , so you are seeming a bit off topic and especially when you are not qualifying your observation in such a way to clarify what you are asserting, exactly.

[XCASH]

Stolfi is a celeb now. He even has his own following, most of whom don't even know they're being trolled.

Ah, Stolfi. Thing about him was, he was totally sincere. Can't even remember what his arguments were really, but he really believed them.

He stopped posting here after Bitcoin broke above $450 and went to $800. That demolished all his arguments in the short term at the very least. Whoever bought at $450 almost doubled their money, while Stolfi had been arguing they were getting ripped off. He was very vocal during the bear market, but disappeared during the bull market.

[mymenace]

noticed the walls are getting bigger and bigger



recent news article confirms bitcoin has the winning formula for future fintech

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/business/article/2020094/fintech-next-frontier-hong-kongs-battle-singapore

i am so bullish

[Torque]

Stolfi is a celeb now. He even has his own following, most of whom don't even know they're being trolled.

Ah, Stolfi. Thing about him was, he was totally sincere. Can't even remember what his arguments were really, but he really believed them.

He stopped posting here after Bitcoin broke above $450 and went to $800. That demolished all his arguments in the short term at the very least. Whoever bought at $450 almost doubled their money, while Stolfi had been arguing they were getting ripped off. He was very vocal during the bear market, but disappeared during the bull market.

Because all paid trolls appear en mass during bear markets (to supposedly help the shorters, who are their friends) and completely disappear during bull runs (because no one would care anymore). Also, I'm pretty sure that many bear trolls on this sub also have bull shill accounts, and just switch sides whenever it is convenient for them to do so.  It's pretty easy to spot them in their writing style and tone, not to mention you can see which accounts suddenly appear or practically disappear during which periods.

Which is why I don't really trust the sincerity of anyone that is too overly vocal (either overly bullish or overly bearish) on this subforum.  At all.

[yefi]

I do wonder about these megatrolls. What an astonishing waste of life it is to write and agitate about something you hate. It's not going to change anything and you're throwing your precious life away while doing it.

Indeed, there is a terrible wastefulness in a human that chooses the life of a mosquito.

[savetherainforest]

I could give a ratt's ass about the various disgruntled comments regarding either my style or content.

[...] our viewpoints regarding bitcoin and our approach to investing in it (or not, supposedly, in the case of Stolfi).  So, if you, or anyone else are getting caught up in style and/or length of post, and believe that those factors indicate any material substance, then you (and those like minded superficial posters) are a bunch of fucking loonies.      

[...]

Finally you said something useful I can comment on...

And to be more blunt... Investing can be achieved in multiple ways! For example the most important 2 things you can do (or 3 depending how you view it) are to convince others to get involved and to create a shortage or a void that sucks everything around it, drawing from the exchanges and convincing it in to cold storage... or enhancing that void by creating your own business by accepting mostly bitcoin for your services or product(s) and having all the excess in to a cold storage that would create the same effect. But now the problem is divided in 2 or 3 things... from who you should get those coins? For example if you take them from someone off-exchange, you might have no immediate impact. So basically you would need to draw and suck dry from the desperate to create that shortage/void/demand. Take from someone who cannot live without bitcoin. 

[Karartma1]

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

But Bitcoin is dead, who cares?

Run Bitcoin Run!

I thought that this thread was about USD/BTC?

If you look at your link, the lead in USD is USD/ETH... , so you are seeming a bit off topic and especially when you are not qualifying your observation in such a way to clarify what you are asserting, exactly.

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).

There's virtually no USD involved with Poloniex. It's not really any more valid than chucking a Chinese exchange in there.

Yes you are both right. According to CoinGecko GDAX's the leading exchange for the BTC/USD
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/trading_exchanges

My bad, it happens

[savetherainforest]

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

But Bitcoin is dead, who cares?

Run Bitcoin Run!

I thought that this thread was about USD/BTC?

If you look at your link, the lead in USD is USD/ETH... , so you are seeming a bit off topic and especially when you are not qualifying your observation in such a way to clarify what you are asserting, exactly.

I think Adam was conservative with the USD to look more serious... he would have probably named it BTC vs All resources of planet Earth & SolarSistem.Co ...

[JayJuanGee]

I could give a ratt's ass about the various disgruntled comments regarding either my style or content.

[...] our viewpoints regarding bitcoin and our approach to investing in it (or not, supposedly, in the case of Stolfi).  So, if you, or anyone else are getting caught up in style and/or length of post, and believe that those factors indicate any material substance, then you (and those like minded superficial posters) are a bunch of fucking loonies.      

[...]

Finally you said something useful I can comment on...

And to be more blunt... Investing can be achieved in multiple ways! For example the most important 2 things you can do (or 3 depending how you view it) are to convince others to get involved and to create a shortage or a void that sucks everything around it, drawing from the exchanges and convincing it in to cold storage... or enhancing that void by creating your own business by accepting mostly bitcoin for your services or product(s) and having all the excess in to a cold storage that would create the same effect. But now the problem is divided in 2 or 3 things... from who you should get those coins? For example if you take them from someone off-exchange, you might have no immediate impact. So basically you would need to draw and suck dry from the desperate to create that shortage/void/demand. Take from someone who cannot live without bitcoin. 

Sure those kinds of described actions can be helpful in expanding the bitcoin space and useage, yet each person has to decide for himself the extent to which he wants to buy, sell or otherwise be involved in bitcoin. 

If you learn about bitcoin, and you believe that it is a good thing, then at minimum you should attempt to allocate a reasonable amount of bitcoin for yourself 1% to 10% of your asset investment allocated towards bitcoin could be reasonable depending upon the level of your bullishness, and your other personal financial circumstances.

In essence, I would suggest that you establish a comfortable position towards yourself, lead by example, and then allow others to chose the level to which they want to get involved.  For the most part, I would not recommend attempting to proselytize others, but that is just me.  If they are receptive to learn about bitcoin and to hear about your investments, then fine, no problem sharing information with them.  On the other hand, I have no problem with people who are out there and proselytizing because some of those kinds of folks are going to exist in any kind of wide spread adoption.

[JayJuanGee]

If not considering the volume taking place on chinese exchanges today Poloniex is the leading exchange (USD).
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

But Bitcoin is dead, who cares?

Run Bitcoin Run!

I thought that this thread was about USD/BTC?

If you look at your link, the lead in USD is USD/ETH... , so you are seeming a bit off topic and especially when you are not qualifying your observation in such a way to clarify what you are asserting, exactly.

I think Adam was conservative with the USD to look more serious... he would have probably named it BTC vs All resources of planet Earth & SolarSistem.Co ...

You are correct, the second would have likely been a better catch all.

[Andre#]

Very good Bitcoin talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k

[Fatman3001]

Very good Bitcoin talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k

Peter Rizun looks like, sounds like, and has the name of a Matt Groening character.

Just an observation. Not a comment on his speech.

[Peter R]

Very good Bitcoin talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k

Peter Rizun looks like, sounds like, and has the name of a Matt Groening character.

Just an observation. Not a comment on his speech.

I'll have to change my avatar. 

[JayJuanGee]

Very good Bitcoin talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k

Peter Rizun looks like, sounds like, and has the name of a Matt Groening character.

Just an observation. Not a comment on his speech.

I'll have to change my avatar. 

1st:  That talk is a bit more than one year old, and quite a lot has happened in the bitcoin space since then

2nd:  The content of the speech seems to start from the premise of wanting to argue that there is something wrong with the current blocksize limit and to suggest that there is some kind of problem with it (surely prior to seg wit)

3rd:  Peter:  I understand that there continue to be a lot of folks arguing for an increase in the blocksize limit, and you seem to continue to be in that camp.  Are you going to argue that your September 2015 presentation is still currently applicable to bitcoin's current situation?  Do you still continue to believe that bitcoin is in some debilitated state because of its current developments and it's reluctance to increase the blocksize limit (seemingly on different logical grounds than those you presented a year ago)?  Surely, you seemed to be arguing that there is some kind of mathematical and logical need to increase the blocksize limit, but doesn't it seem that the urgency of such considerations is not as great as what you had been presenting them to be, and really seg wit remains a fairly non-controversial implementation that is significantly addressing scaling issues, at least in the short to medium term (which could likely be a few years into the future, in spite of some folks, possibly you included, still likely arguing that a hard blocksize limit is actually necessary)?

[AlexGR]

Very good Bitcoin talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k

The theory breaks down in a certain point.

Given low fees, tx demand can tend to infinite.
He argues that this is not the case due to miners not being incentivized to produce bigger blocks.

Now there are two components in the game theory of bitcoin. One is internal, the other is external.

The internal is the game theory that surrounds how the internal ecosystem works. For example 51% issues. Attacks of 51% do not make sense in the internal context (the 51% attacker devalues his coins because he attacked the system he is living in).

They do however make sense in the external context (ie, external actors to the bitcoin ecosystem, employing means to disrupt it - like attacking pools, renting hashpower etc). The external context has to do with threats to bitcoin from banks, governments, payment companies etc, all those who want to see bitcoin harmed.

In order to have a system that is resilient, you must be able to have a game theory that is both internally and externally robust. External robustness is an ideal... a dream (due to the resources external actors have at their disposal)... but at least you don't have to make it easy for them.

In this case, if you allow miners the liberty to include as large blocks as they like, an external actor that hates bitcoin can just say to a miner "you know what? I'll pay you more fees than what the others are making, and if your block is orphaned, I'll pay that too - just make sure to put in there as many txs as you like".

At that point, the enemy of bitcoin who has employed "bad miners" for very little money (compared to the multi-billion dollar interests of banks/payment companies/governments), can bloat bitcoin to death for extremely small costs.

This is the element that is lacking in the above analysis, overlooking the fact that it's not only the internal game theory, but also the external. The external enemies are far more dangerous. By giving them the tools to bloat bitcoin, they can centralize it and then make it even easier to attack - or even shut down.