Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[SAQ]

I feel so sorry for those guys that were waiting for 70. I feel even more sorry for those guys that are now waiting for 105.

i waited and am still waiting for 70, if we never get there, oh well.

Why on earth do you think we will go back to 70 any time soon?

I don't need soon.

By soon I mean 2015

If in 2015 BTC is worth 70$.. Well, I don't think rpietila 300k are realistic, but, expect a 70$ in two years is pretty bearish. I would say 300$ as normal easily.

Yes I was hinting at the next bubble burst, but you are probably right, I doubt the bottom of the next bubble will be 70.

I guess what I meant really was that we simply are not going to see 70 again in my opinion. I think since 50 we've had an uptrend, higher lows and higher highs.

And of course 300k is not realistic. That means btc has a market cap of 330 trillion. That's not going to happen for the next 20 or 30 years at least if ever.

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[humanitee]

Yes I was hinting at the next bubble burst, but you are probably right, I doubt the bottom of the next bubble will be 70.

I guess what I meant really was that we simply are not going to see 70 again in my opinion. I think since 50 we've had an uptrend, higher lows and higher lower highs.

FTFY  

[Richy_T]

The forex-broker plus500 has now opened for bitcoin trading. 4:1 leverage, someone is going to get very rich or poor...

Even though they also allow shorting, I think this is great for the price, as they accept credit card deposits and is a very easy way for a lot of people to get into bitcoins.

Its got UK offices/oversight, but from what i can make out, it doesn't allow deposit or withdrawal of BTC, just fiat.

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

[Richy_T]

It'd be nice if the bot could post both styles.

Do you mean left view, right view or something else? If the former, recent changes I have made have made that possible. Stay tuned.

[SAQ]

The forex-broker plus500 has now opened for bitcoin trading. 4:1 leverage, someone is going to get very rich or poor...

Even though they also allow shorting, I think this is great for the price, as they accept credit card deposits and is a very easy way for a lot of people to get into bitcoins.

Its got UK offices/oversight, but from what i can make out, it doesn't allow deposit or withdrawal of BTC, just fiat.

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

You wouldn't be trading BTC. You just place a bet on the price going up or down.

[Its About Sharing]

I feel so sorry for those guys that were waiting for 70. I feel even more sorry for those guys that are now waiting for 105.

i waited and am still waiting for 70, if we never get there, oh well.

Why on earth do you think we will go back to 70 any time soon?

I don't need soon.

By soon I mean 2015

Yes I was hinting at the next bubble burst, but you are probably right, I doubt the bottom of the next bubble will be 70.

I guess what I meant really was that we simply are not going to see 70 again in my opinion. I think since 50 we've had an uptrend, higher lows and higher highs.

If in 2015 BTC is worth 70$.. Well, I don't think rpietila 300k are realistic, but, expect a 70$ in two years is pretty bearish. I would say 300$ as normal easily.

Well to be more clear I was looking for low 70's.

And yes, we might not ever get there again. But in 2 or 3 months? Maybe.

I saw the 32$ to 2$ That took months.

True, but this is truly something that cannot be compared to a traditions currency, stock, protocol, technology, etc.
However, I'm not saying you are wrong. Government intervention might take it down. It depends on the government. Imagine the US is against it but the rest of the world is for it...
On the other hand, the China thing has just started. It can shoot to $1000 and then come back down to $70. We shouldn't get attached here. We are really taking part in one of the
worlds biggest experiments. Since BTC is anti-fragile, I'd say the Universe is on our side.

Realistically, BTC is not about getting rich, it is about a new form of money. And, if it is successful, you will only need 1. Think about that...

IAS

[Kazu]

The forex-broker plus500 has now opened for bitcoin trading. 4:1 leverage, someone is going to get very rich or poor...

Even though they also allow shorting, I think this is great for the price, as they accept credit card deposits and is a very easy way for a lot of people to get into bitcoins.

Its got UK offices/oversight, but from what i can make out, it doesn't allow deposit or withdrawal of BTC, just fiat.

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

You aren't trading BTC. You are trading a pieces of paper that say that the brokerage will pay you the price of some amount of btc X days in the future.

[stereotype]

The forex-broker plus500 has now opened for bitcoin trading. 4:1 leverage, someone is going to get very rich or poor...

Even though they also allow shorting, I think this is great for the price, as they accept credit card deposits and is a very easy way for a lot of people to get into bitcoins.

Its got UK offices/oversight, but from what i can make out, it doesn't allow deposit or withdrawal of BTC, just fiat.

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

It/you trade their synthetic instrument based on what ever they have as a feed (Gox, i presume). When i last looked the spread was fixed at 1$.

[awakening]

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

The reason that they don't allow withdraws of BTCs is because of the technical and legal hassle, and the problems with credit card charge backs.
Doubtly they don't have the BTCs, as if there is a bubble, and enought money is inside, they would lost A LOT. Plus there is no reason for them to don't have the BTCs, as they win money with the fees, not stealing you.

Well to be more clear I was looking for low 70's.

And yes, we might not ever get there again. But in 2 or 3 months? Maybe.

I saw the 32$ to 2$ That took months.

I think we are gonna see low 70s soon. The market is very volatile, and goes from bear to bullish very fast.. We did touch the high 70s just two days ago, and maybe without the China news we would have tested the wall. Even if I'm pretty sure if would have resist.
Bad news related to MtGox and CoinLab legal affairs can make the price go down easy. I wouldn't bet anything to BTC going to seventies, or even fifties.

[Richy_T]

The forex-broker plus500 has now opened for bitcoin trading. 4:1 leverage, someone is going to get very rich or poor...

Even though they also allow shorting, I think this is great for the price, as they accept credit card deposits and is a very easy way for a lot of people to get into bitcoins.

Its got UK offices/oversight, but from what i can make out, it doesn't allow deposit or withdrawal of BTC, just fiat.

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

You wouldn't be trading BTC. You just place a bet on the price going up or down.

So, say 100 people each put 1000GBP in, buy bitcoins, price quadruples then they cash out, where does the GBP from? Exchanges need to be open at both ends and the exchange just takes a cut from transactions otherwise you have currency supply issues. Which could have a detrimental effect on the price, as can be seen on some of the exchanges where it is hard to get USD in.

[Its About Sharing]

I feel so sorry for those guys that were waiting for 70. I feel even more sorry for those guys that are now waiting for 105.

i waited and am still waiting for 70, if we never get there, oh well.

Why on earth do you think we will go back to 70 any time soon?

I don't need soon.

By soon I mean 2015

Yes I was hinting at the next bubble burst, but you are probably right, I doubt the bottom of the next bubble will be 70.

I guess what I meant really was that we simply are not going to see 70 again in my opinion. I think since 50 we've had an uptrend, higher lows and higher highs.

If in 2015 BTC is worth 70$.. Well, I don't think rpietila 300k are realistic, but, expect a 70$ in two years is pretty bearish. I would say 300$ as normal easily.

Well to be more clear I was looking for low 70's.

And yes, we might not ever get there again. But in 2 or 3 months? Maybe.

I saw the 32$ to 2$ That took months.

True, but this is truly something that cannot be compared to a traditions currency, stock, protocol, technology, etc.
However, I'm not saying you are wrong. Government intervention might take it down. It depends on the government. Imagine the US is against it but the rest of the world is for it...
On the other hand, the China thing has just started. It can shoot to $1000 and then come back down to $70. We shouldn't get attached here. We are really taking part in one of the
worlds biggest experiments. Since BTC is anti-fragile, I'd say the Universe is on our side.

Realistically, BTC is not about getting rich, it is about a new form of money. And, if it is successful, you will only need 1. Think about that...

IAS

I'm in a win win here,

btc goes down, i get more btc

btc goes up, i get Ferrari

LOL, you are right. Just make sure you put a decent catalytic converter on that bad boy.  

[elux]

http://www.dailydot.com/business/future-bitcoin-boostvc-adam-draper/

[Its About Sharing]

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

The reason that they don't allow withdraws of BTCs is because of the technical and legal hassle, and the problems with credit card charge backs.
Doubtly they don't have the BTCs, as if there is a bubble, and enought money is inside, they would lost A LOT. Plus there is no reason for them to don't have the BTCs, as they win money with the fees, not stealing you.

Well to be more clear I was looking for low 70's.

And yes, we might not ever get there again. But in 2 or 3 months? Maybe.

I saw the 32$ to 2$ That took months.

I think we are gonna see low 70s soon. The market is very volatile, and goes from bear to bullish very fast.. We did touch the high 70s just two days ago, and maybe without the China news we would have tested the wall. Even if I'm pretty sure if would have resist.
Bad news related to MtGox and CoinLab legal affairs can make the price go down easy. I wouldn't bet anything to BTC going to seventies, or even fifties.

I am worried about that big buy bid that went up (again)? Same guys?

It is a tough thing to predict. I can imagine some big VC firms want in at much much lower levels.

But, the question is, considering there are 11 million BTC out there (much of which is not getting sold), who gets to it first, the big money or the masses just buying a few here and there?
If it does go down (again) to 50, it is pretty clear people will load up on it.

Look at what is happening with gold. The banks are selling naked puts to drive the price down, hoping to take interest away from it. What has happened? Demand went up. Figure that one out, it is easy to see. People have had it with governments lying and cheating. Really, a statement is being made. I'm not saying BTC will succeed. But it does look like most are behind it, or what it and other alt coins stand for.

[ErisDiscordia]

I'm in a win win here,

btc goes down, i get more btc

btc goes up, i get Ferrari

can you get custom license plates in Thailand? If so, you should get a btc related one if you end up buying the Ferrari. something like btc4ever or LOLfiat or some Thai equivalent Imagine the walking (driving) ad for btc you would become

[Kazu]

The forex-broker plus500 has now opened for bitcoin trading. 4:1 leverage, someone is going to get very rich or poor...

Even though they also allow shorting, I think this is great for the price, as they accept credit card deposits and is a very easy way for a lot of people to get into bitcoins.

Its got UK offices/oversight, but from what i can make out, it doesn't allow deposit or withdrawal of BTC, just fiat.

If you can't deposit or withdraw BTC, how do you know you are trading BTC?

If this is UK based, it could be good for me. I'll have to look into it.

You wouldn't be trading BTC. You just place a bet on the price going up or down.

So, say 100 people each put 1000GBP in, buy bitcoins, price quadruples then they cash out, where does the GBP from? Exchanges need to be open at both ends and the exchange just takes a cut from transactions otherwise you have currency supply issues. Which could have a detrimental effect on the price, as can be seen on some of the exchanges where it is hard to get USD in.

The GBP comes from the same place the GBP in your local bank or brokerage comes from: debt. Its completely up to the "exchange" to decide where they get the money to pay off that debt.

This isn't an exchange, this is a brokerage. You aren't trading actual BTC, you are trading a derivative, i.e, debt.

[Bitsinmyhead]

So, say 100 people each put 1000GBP in, buy bitcoins, price quadruples then they cash out, where does the GBP from? Exchanges need to be open at both ends and the exchange just takes a cut from transactions otherwise you have currency supply issues. Which could have a detrimental effect on the price, as can be seen on some of the exchanges where it is hard to get USD in.

As others have said you are betting against the site. If you buy and price doubles, you win and site loses. The site wants to have as many people shorting Bitcoins as people going long through them, that way they have minimal risk. If a lot of people buy Bitcoin and few short, the site will most likely buy coins through Mt. Gox to hedge their risk. Thats why I think it will be a good thing, because most people will probably go long.

Another positive effect should be that this exposes Bitcoin to a lot more people as plus500 already has a lot of customers trading all kind of other stuff. When they see Bitcoin is the place with most action they will hopefully look further into it.

[phoenix1]

All clear now Richy_T ?

Could be be good for UK based short-term traders (no FX & transfer fess ), but not good for long term holding IMO

[EuroTrash]

I'm in a win win here,

btc goes down, i get more btc

btc goes up, i get Ferrari

I'm made much much more with LTC then anything else.

This is slightly OT, but while the drama unfolds slowly and some are considering buying back in at a loss, did anyone notice the option to buy XRP with USD on BitStamp?
Yesterday they were selling at 100 XRP per USD; today at 50 XRP per USD.

[Richy_T]

All clear now Richy_T ?

Haha, yes. I'll be steering clear.

[Jaques]

I'm in a win win here,

btc goes down, i get more btc

btc goes up, i get Ferrari

I'm made much much more with LTC then anything else.

This is slightly OT, but while the drama unfolds slowly and some are considering buying back in at a loss, did anyone notice the option to buy XRP with USD on BitStamp?
Yesterday they were selling at 100 XRP per USD; today at 50 XRP per USD.

not long ago i traded 38000 XRP for 0.7BTC now that would have been 6.6???  ... grmpf!