Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[yermom]

You have the balls to say that paying high fees is financial freedom. FREEDOM  
Otherwise I can go back to banksters, why? Different faces, same slavery problem

No, you pay high fees, BECAUSE it is giving you freedom. If you value the cost less than you value the freedom granted, do not use it. It is OPT-IN.
In other words:
The demand for financial sovereignty through the use of the - voluntary(!)- network of Bitcoin is higher than the supply right now, that is why it is expensive, not because of technical limitations. And spam attack, ofc  

Freedom has a cost. No one forces you to pay it.

Ehm... no. You basically are saying
-If I want to voluntarily use the bitcoin network, I must pay those high fees. That doesn't sound like freedom for me. I cannot manage my resources freely if I'm losing a percentage every time besides the spent.

Please rephrase that, because only two alternatives available: fiat banking or the dark side

[El duderino_]

Time for the BIG big BIG bounceback ..., the onces selling right now can only be fools and idiots JOKERS ;-) :-)

[Torque]

https://youtu.be/UuQfuCqupkI
Rick Reacts 2017-W45 With last Bitcoin scaling hope CRUSHED, people come together to magic.

"And their reasons aren’t going to be “decentralization”, “censorship resistance”, “non-aggression money”, or any other nice theoretical construct. Their three reasons for joining Bitcoin Cash, in 99.999% of cases, are going to be profit, profit, and more profit, in that order."
CEO Rick

Why does he think Bitcoin would be worth anything without these things? I'm trying to understand.

It wouldn't. He's a liar. Just like the whole BCH camp. They are all out to rape a small subset of believers who they can successfully gaslight into thinking that those principles/attributes don't matter any more. It's become like Jim Jones level cult brainwashing shit.

And he talks about the transaction backlog @ 140K right now, but disingenuously omits mentioning who was the fkn cause of all that spamming these past 24hrs. More bullshit.

[lightfoot]

So what's happening today. Anything interesting?

[Ibian]

You have the balls to say that paying high fees is financial freedom. FREEDOM  
Otherwise I can go back to banksters, why? Different faces, same slavery problem

No, you pay high fees, BECAUSE it is giving you freedom. If you value the cost less than you value the freedom granted, do not use it. It is OPT-IN.
In other words:
The demand for financial sovereignty through the use of the - voluntary(!)- network of Bitcoin is higher than the supply right now, that is why it is expensive, not because of technical limitations. And spam attack, ofc  

Freedom has a cost. No one forces you to pay it.

Ehm... no. You basically are saying
-If I want to voluntarily use the bitcoin network, I must pay those high fees. That doesn't sound like freedom for me. I cannot manage my resources freely if I'm losing a percentage every time besides the spent.

Please rephrase that, because only two alternatives available: fiat banking or the dark side

It's the wrong angle.

What counts for networks is network effect. The bigger the network, the more valuable the network. High fees discourage new users from joining, hence, high fees are detrimental to network effect, and to network value.

We need more throughput. We needed it a year ago.

[Last of the V8s]

So what's happening today. Anything interesting?

had some nice bangers for tea

[AZwarel]

You have the balls to say that paying high fees is financial freedom. FREEDOM  
Otherwise I can go back to banksters, why? Different faces, same slavery problem

No, you pay high fees, BECAUSE it is giving you freedom. If you value the cost less than you value the freedom granted, do not use it. It is OPT-IN.
In other words:
The demand for financial sovereignty through the use of the - voluntary(!)- network of Bitcoin is higher than the supply right now, that is why it is expensive, not because of technical limitations. And spam attack, ofc  

Freedom has a cost. No one forces you to pay it.

Ehm... no. You basically are saying
-If I want to voluntarily use the bitcoin network, I must pay those high fees. That doesn't sound like freedom for me. I cannot manage my resources freely if I'm losing a percentage every time besides the spent.

Please rephrase that, because only two alternatives available: fiat banking or the dark side

I will try, not sure i will be able

You have to pay high fees, because there are other people who also want to use the bitcoin network just as you, for whatever reason. Basically, you are competing for the next x block tx inclusion - it doesn't matter which timeline, those with "not urgent" needs also compete with the other "not urgent" ones.
This is the cost side.

The benefit side, aka the "financial freedom" comes from the properties of the bitcoin network, like censorship resistance aka:
you are mathematically/cryptographically protected against third party intrusion, such as freezing or confiscating your wealth on any reason or with method.

That is what i define as financial freedom, which comes with the aformentioned cost.

EDIT: oh i see the confusion: free (=zero cost on energy/resource expenditure) does not equals freedom (the ability to ignore the command of other actors without repercussion).

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[AZwarel]

That made me 

[jojo69]

So what's happening today. Anything interesting?

not really, little flash crash to mid channel

seems to be a lot of chatter about alt coins but meh

[player99]

What a day! Making btc by trading bch. Easiest profit days I ever had in crypto. Go bitcoin go!

[Peter R]

The difficulty on BCH has reset upwards, making BTC more profitable to mine.  We should see significant hash power migration shortly, a partial clearing of mempool, and a reduction in transaction fees on the Bitcoin Core chain.  

What I can't figure out is if people will dump more BTC because their coins can now move, or dump more BCH because the miners have left.  

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The difficulty on BCH has reset upwards, making BTC significantly more profitable to mine.  We should see significant hash power migration shortly, a partial clearing of mempool, and a reduction in transaction fees on the Bitcoin Core chain.  

What I can't figure out is if people will dump more BTC because their coins can now move, or dump more BCH because the miners have left.  

Just hold both. Nothing to think about. Innit.

[jbreher]

"Bitcoin is a worldwide cryptocurrency and digital payment system called the first decentralized digital currency, as the system works without a central repository or single administrator."

Perhaps if you could make a cogent case showing how Bitcoin Segwit is in any way more decentralized than Bitcoin Cash, you might have a point. But so far, all I've seen from you or others is mere hand waving.

Actually he has very good point. What you call Bitcoin Segwit can do ALL the things so called Bitcoin Cash can do and a lot more. This is why BCH is dead. It was born dead.

Notice how jbreher the troll doesn't acknowledge that Bitcoin Cash is the ULTIMATE in a 98%+ centralized mining operation, nor ever gives any evidence to the contrary. He doesn't even care that it's a problem. He just deflects, hand-waves, and tries to turn the argument back on the other person.   He's fkn done this for years, it's his MO.

The set of Bitcoin Cash miners is pretty much identical to the set of Bitcoin Segwit miners.

Though I see you have not yet provided any sort of response to my post. To wit:

Perhaps if you could make a cogent case showing how Bitcoin Segwit is in any way more decentralized than Bitcoin Cash, you might have a point. But so far, all I've seen from you or others is mere hand waving.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

How about nodes? Does BCH actually have any that aren't Bitmain?

[Torque]

Oh look it's Peter "I'ma pretend to be an agnostic fence sitter even though I'm a big blocker shill" R. again.  

[Ibian]

"Bitcoin is a worldwide cryptocurrency and digital payment system called the first decentralized digital currency, as the system works without a central repository or single administrator."

Perhaps if you could make a cogent case showing how Bitcoin Segwit is in any way more decentralized than Bitcoin Cash, you might have a point. But so far, all I've seen from you or others is mere hand waving.

Actually he has very good point. What you call Bitcoin Segwit can do ALL the things so called Bitcoin Cash can do and a lot more. This is why BCH is dead. It was born dead.

Notice how jbreher the troll doesn't acknowledge that Bitcoin Cash is the ULTIMATE in a 98%+ centralized mining operation, nor ever gives any evidence to the contrary. He doesn't even care that it's a problem. He just deflects, hand-waves, and tries to turn the argument back on the other person.   He's fkn done this for years, it's his MO.

The set of Bitcoin Cash miners is pretty much identical to the set of Bitcoin Segwit miners.

Though I see you have not yet provided any sort of response to my post. To wit:

Perhaps if you could make a cogent case showing how Bitcoin Segwit is in any way more decentralized than Bitcoin Cash, you might have a point. But so far, all I've seen from you or others is mere hand waving.

And you have not provided any sort of response to my post. The latest one, as well as in general. Let's try again.

Do you have anything other than ideology to back your support of clonecoin?

[conspirosphere.tk]

In other words: 3rd world, go f*** yourself.

Not at all, given that Zimbabweans can afford to pay double for BTC. Maybe in Venezuela there is some premium too.
If all that matters about BTC for you is +/- a few bucks in tx fees it's just your problem. Maybe go with some fork and you will find that fees are not everything.

[Peter R]

I'm not a fence sitter.  I think I've made it clear that I want to see lower fees, reliable confirmations, and to help spread bitcoin all across the world.

The only thing I'm fence sitting on is whether the next move for the BTC/BCH ratio is up or down.

[Last of the V8s]

The difficulty on BCH has reset upwards, making BTC more profitable to mine.  We should see significant hash power migration shortly, a partial clearing of mempool, and a reduction in transaction fees on the Bitcoin Core chain.  

What I can't figure out is if people will dump more BTC because their coins can now move, or dump more BCH because the miners have left.