Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[OWZ1337]

CostCo taking bitcoin would be a big deal :-D weee ~ got pizza?  

We're within about 10x of a pizza costing 10,000 satoshis, instead of 10,000 bitcoins.

luckly i can save some satoshis roaming around CostCo for free samples~what a shame bitcointalk banned giveaways wtf!!! :\

~> I CAME HERE FOR THE FREE BEER!! :-D

[realr0ach]

This is over the head of some people here, but why cryptocurrency doesn't actually have scarcity:

Who on Bitcoin can snap his fingers and create money out of thin air?

Anyone because PoW does nothing to force convergence of rough consensus attacks (aka forks or altcoins).  This is because cryptocurreny is inherently non-fungible.  It doesn't matter if you mix inputs to hide sender/receiver; that does nothing to solve the problem. Assumptions go into the white paper that things like the longest chain rule will prevent two coins with the same algo from existing at the same time and that PoW will force convergence, yet BTC and BCH both exist at the same time with the same algo, clearly nullifying that assumption.

You agreed with my example that cryptourrency does not actually have scarcity because Vitalik can create one billion scamcoins in his basement by snapping his fingers then do it again five seconds later.  The fact PoW does nothing to solve rough consensus attacks means proof of work is in the same boat.  It just happens through slightly different mechanisms.  

So called "network effect" does absolutely nothing to force convergence either, because bitcoin has built-in usurious middlemen called transaction validators who want a cut of every transaction.  Since block space is highly limited, the success of bitcoin is it's own worst enemy, increasing fees exponentially and giving it a reverse Schelling point - driving users to OTHER chains to avoid usury fees, compounding the inability of PoW to force convergence even further.

[realr0ach]

And for people who haven't yet figured out the US is going to a silver based dollar when the monetary system blows up (with JP Morgan currently acting as an agent for the US govt):

http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver/silver-news/we-could-see-an-upside-surprise-in-silver-at-any-moment-including-a-jp-morgan-double-cross/

[ssmc2]

And for people who haven't yet figured out the US is going to a silver based dollar when the monetary system blows up (with JP Morgan currently acting as an agent for the US govt):

http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver/silver-news/we-could-see-an-upside-surprise-in-silver-at-any-moment-including-a-jp-morgan-double-cross/

lmao you're hilarious

[conspirosphere.tk]

And for people who haven't yet figured out the US is going to a silver based dollar when the monetary system blows up (with JP Morgan currently acting as an agent for the US govt):

http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver/silver-news/we-could-see-an-upside-surprise-in-silver-at-any-moment-including-a-jp-morgan-double-cross/

Then (((they))) will chip with an RFID the JPM legal tender coins and you will be left with your lumps of metal that no one will accept.
They've been cheating with the pm market since forever and you think that they would let you play their game?

[realr0ach]

And for people who haven't yet figured out the US is going to a silver based dollar when the monetary system blows up (with JP Morgan currently acting as an agent for the US govt):

http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver/silver-news/we-could-see-an-upside-surprise-in-silver-at-any-moment-including-a-jp-morgan-double-cross/

lmao you're hilarious

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  It's all the same difference.  Fort Knox is either entirely empty or well below what it's supposed to have, so they bought up a different asset that's interchangeable with gold anyway to monetize when the economic system implodes.  

Since places like India and random arab nations have large amounts of gold, monetizing only gold would just make the west slaves of shithole 3rd world countries.  Most of those nations do not have large amounts of silver. In fact, JP Morgan has just about all the silver now.  Gold and silver will both obviously be monetized, but when both are monetized at the same time, the value of gold will only go up to like $5-10k, while silver will go up to something like $300-$600, putting the west (or US in particular) on a much more level playing field with the 3rd world shitholes that have stacked more gold.

As for what happens to places like Canada that have no gold or silver reserves, who the hell knows.  If they have no type of monetary reserves, they might end up being economically annexed by the US or just flat bought out by China.

[TERA2]

[xhomerx10]

I don't get it.  Now that they accept Bitcoin, APMEX is out of tulips.



 The mother's day tulip silver rounds are sold out as well.
https://www.apmex.com/product/149460/1-oz-silver-colorized-round-apmex-mothers-day-tulips

 Damn.

[realr0ach]

you think that they would let you play their game?

I'm not trapped in god's prison with the jews.  The jews are trapped inside it with me.

[AlexGR]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things, especially when the annual mining production is ~900mn oz.

It'd be great if silver went up in price due to some kind of cornering, but 130m oz is really not that much. The US mint alone, does something like 50mn ounces per year in silver eagles - and it's just one mint, minting one coin.

[HairyMaclairy]

There was a lot more silver in the world in 1980 and 1998 than there is today, meaning that JPMorgan’s accumulation is much more of an accomplishment than previous silver acquisitions.

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?  Did the Arabs send it all to the moon?

[gentlemand]

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?  Did the Arabs send it all to the moon?

That guy ate it.

[realr0ach]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things

It wasn't 130.  People's estimates vary, but the number 400 million is tossed around a lot, while that article states 675 million ounces.  Your numbers for how much above ground exists is always way off as well.  You never take into account how much is used by industry vs how much is mined either.  There's only something like $40 billion dollars above ground that can be brought to market, but most of those people won't sell anyway.  Why sell the base of Exter's pyramid?  There's no point.  Metals have way stronger hodlers than BTC does.

So out of curiosity what happened to all the silver in the world between 1998 and today?

It was squandered in things like cheap Chinese trinkets or 1980's electronics and not recovered or recycled.  If the price skyrockets, some industries will obviously switch to other materals, but so little is used in most products it's not that big of a deal even if it did go up 10x or more for the ones that can't.  Just like how even though gold has an average cost of something like over $1000 to drag it out of the ground, people still use it for completely idiotic things like coating USB connectors for keyboards and mice.  If $2000 an ounce gold doesn't stop people from doing that, $300-$600 silver isn't going to stop it from being used either.

[AlexGR]

The banks are the govt, so whether JP Morgan is acting as an agent of the US govt or not is entirely semantics.  

Silverdoctors overestimates the importance of JPMorgan's "stash"... 130m oz is nothing in the greater scheme of things

130 was the lower bound, not upper bound.  Your numbers for how much above ground exists is always way off. You also never take into account how much is used by industry vs how much is mined either.  There's only something like $40 billion dollars above ground that can be brought to market, but most of those people won't sell anyway.  Why sell the base of Exter's pyramid?  There's no point.

I tend to see the above-ground quantities instead of investor-grade silver, because metals can always be repurposed given sufficient financial incentive. Scrapping from technological components like gold-plated fingers, gold nanowire in integrated circuits and palladium in smd capacitors, is a prime example of tiny quantities that are getting recycled... obviously no-one bothers at 15$ per ounce but things change at 300-500-1000$ - even for micron-level plating (!)

The macro-object scrap market is also affected, with stuff like candlesticks, big mirrors, dining stuff (dishes, forks, spoons, etc) - where say a dish that weighs 20 ounces, at 300$ per oz, is now 6k USD. Or the whole spoon/knife/fork set might then cost 15-20k... Or entire bags of junk silver coins that would suddenly be in the 6-figure range. Is that going to happen? I wish it did but I don't think it will. And it's not even an unrealistic scenario if we factor the 50$ prices in the Hunt-squeeze-era and adjust it for inflation to today's prices to something like 200-300$, yet I don't see it happening without something dramatic like a country issuing their national currency on silver. But that would be their own undoing, since at that moment their national debt would also be repayable in ...silver. And while you can repay old bonds by printing new digits in a computer server of the central bank, you can't print silver to repay bond holders.

[sirazimuth]

https://themerkle.com/capital-one-refuses-to-let-customers-buy-cryptocurrency-from-any-exchange/
final whimperings of fiat demise

ha! quite interesting the article mentions ...

"credit unions may be the best option for any US customer looking to get their hands on Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency capable of being purchased with fiat currency..."

...as that's how yours truly has been auto buying BTC on a weekly basis for past 3 years...
at what has turned out to be a very handsome ROI  I might add...

[realr0ach]

AlexGR, you don't seem to understand the fact that paper money, especially fiats issued as debt, always implode and then people enter the vaults to square up the existing debts and claims vs a new peg.  You either balance the existing debts and claims vs a new peg, or anyone that bought a $500,000 house and paid with a NINJA loan and still owes $499,999 gets a free house.  

Without balancing the existing debts and claims vs metals as the new peg, and thus vastly inflating the price of the metals, you would also have complete disintegration of most nations into some type of 500 BC lawless plunder and shooting because there is no consensus on who owns what, etc etc.  It doesn't matter if you think some people will make too much money by holding metals or whatever, it will happen because it's the only possible thing that can happen.

The numbers I stated were only a 20-40x for silver.  You seem to make believe that's an illogical and huge amount when people just bought bitcoins for $1 each and then resold them for a +20,000x a few years later.  The only difference is, it's a hell of a lot safer going all-in on silver than btc.

[bonipper]

Getting back to bitcoin.

The Koreans aren't happy about an official suggesting they close all exchanges.

They have filed more than 4,000 petitions against the move during January. One with over 30,000 signature asks for the Minister of Justice to quit.

Bullish.

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-crackdown-talk-draws-ire-supporters-politicians-south-korea/

The public backlash against the proposed move appears to be accelerating. On the Korean president's Blue House website, more than 4,000 petitions have been filed related to "virtual currencies" since Jan. 10.

One petition asking the Minister of Justice to step down in light of the move received more than 30,000 signatures on its own. According to Reuters, one petition alone has attracted more than 100,000 signatures and the website itself became inaccessible at one point due to excessive traffic.

[JayJuanGee]

https://themerkle.com/capital-one-refuses-to-let-customers-buy-cryptocurrency-from-any-exchange/
final whimperings of fiat demise

ha! quite interesting the article mentions ...

"credit unions may be the best option for any US customer looking to get their hands on Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency capable of being purchased with fiat currency..."

...as that's how yours truly has been auto buying BTC on a weekly basis for past 3 years...
at what has turned out to be a very handsome ROI  I might add...

It does seem that in the near future some traditional financial institutions are going to wise up to allow some cryptos to be acquired through their services.  Seems likely that they would start with bitcoin; however, the quantity of FUD out their regarding the supposed benefits of crypto "diversification," might cause them to offer other non-bitcoin cryptos (as well).

[HairyMaclairy]

I could be wrong but I just don’t think anyone you gcares about precious metals anymore. I can’t imagine a millennial going out and saying they’re going to buy gold or silver bars. Maybe if they were a prepper whack job but that’s a pretty niche community

[bitserve]

In a surprising turn of events Kraken has just transfered me the Lumens corresponding to the last airdrop (from many months ago). It is some significant money at current valuation.

Everyone that had Bitcoin on Kraken at the time of the snapshot (around summer) should check their Kraken account for a nice surprise.