Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[infofront]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here 

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

[infofront]

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

It's difficult to have an objective discussion on this topic, as you can tell by the visceral, emotionally charged posts. I like to think I'm pretty objective and level headed, but sometimes I lose my shit over Bcash too.

Consensus decides what Bitcoin is. If, sometime in the future, consensus dictates that Bcash is the real Bitcoin, I would acknowledge that. However, I'd also acknowledge that Bitcoin has failed, and I would disengage from the space altogether, and focus on Monero or something.

[Torque]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here  

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

I would still like to see any of these supposed non-'Bitcoin Maximalists' dispute or debate, either logically, philosophically or otherwise, the statement I made just earlier today. When confronted with the undeniable truth, they just tuck their tail and run away.

The "real Bitcoin" is the one that the majority of end users agree on through belief and mutual consensus of Bitcoin's fundamental attributes and philosophical values.

That's it. Period. The majority of end users decides. It literally is a popularity contest.

It has nothing to do with what Ver thinks, what miners think, what brokers/exchanges think, what developers think, what features, which has the biggest block size or fastest transactions, which was "first", which one "closest to Satoshi's original vision", which is objectively "better", or better for humanity, better for the planet/ecosystem, or any of that other garbage.

Consensus decides what Bitcoin is. If, sometime in the future, consensus dictates that Bcash is the real Bitcoin, I would acknowledge that. However, I'd also acknowledge that Bitcoin has failed, and I would disengage from the space altogether, and focus on Monero or something.

Exactly this. +1000.

[El duderino_]

I am emotionally ready for $9300.

how are youre emotions for +10k ?
ready as well ?

[Karartma1]

So now we are back over $9000, may introduce the latest Lambo.

Ahhhh fuck that, I'd rather drive one of their tractors.

There you go boy! There you go!

Yes that's my Lambo, I'm going back to a natural lifestyle! No one would guess you are a fuckin bitcoin billionaire

[Totscha]

[misc fork rambling...]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here 

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

Firstly BCash executed a hard fork on Aug 1. And by hard fork it mean it was not backwards compatible with the majority of the Bitcoin network. BCash became a fork on a separate chain.

Bitcoin continued as it was until Aug 24th. That is when SegWit locked in and a soft fork happened. And by soft fork I mean that it was backwards compatible with clients not yet supporting SegWit.

These are plain simple facts...

[STT]

If it wasnt already clear, segwit is useful. Its not like the core protocol was stagnant and neglected, it could have arrived a bit faster as I saw the fees problem was really not good publicity for Bitcoin.
However the bottom line is the big fork done in the summer wasnt necessary, development was occurring anyway.  Regardless of the price, I'm bullish on Bitcoin prospects because of this open development ongoing that give utility while remaining optional.   My ideal is that people have the simplest path forward because the majority of the world just wants a product to work for them not vice verse.  Thats a bullish scenario if they keep improving the base case for Bitcoin utility.

Price in the market exchanges is something different from population and natural growth in use, thats more important if anything.   Maybe the best compliment to BCH is that its part of competitive capitalism, many markets try to develop monopolys which is not always so good for consumers.

[El duderino_]

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

Disengage from Nazi noise too, and you could find even more respect.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

mmm hitler is very easy ....
on an non ethical way he helped on science and a few things where we have advantage on after the war and his dead , BUT in big lines he did evrything wrong by just killing innocent...

but to say he did nothing wrong is just sick to say .... but everybody's own oppinion ....    

[Elwar]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here  

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

As someone with a lot of bcash I created a Wall Observer thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3386487.0

Let's pump this baby to .2 BTC again folks! You can do it!


Wall Observer has been forked. Join the true Wall Observer thread!

[fluidjax]

Consensus decides what Bitcoin is. If, sometime in the future, consensus dictates that Bcash is the real Bitcoin, I would acknowledge that. However, I'd also acknowledge that Bitcoin has failed, and I would disengage from the space altogether, and focus on Monero or something.

Exactly this. +1000.

Consensus is a very nebulous concept, miners, users, merchants, full nodes, loud twitter trolls, who determines what  constitues it, and what/who determines the result.

Consensus treats Bitcoin like a crown, where it is effectively awarded to the most popular chain whilst it has consensus. Outside of these times, it is not Bitcoin. So a chain could alternate between Bitcoin and Non-Bitcoin status as opinions change.

I'd rather think of Bitcoin as something that is passed down unbroken from the genesis block, when a fork occurs the Bitcoin title can be passed to the forked code. But, as in the base of BCash,  the forked code can't claim the name Bitcoin once it failed to get consensus at the time of the fork, it's too late, it must use a different name.

[vroom]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here 

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

As someone with a lot of bcash I created a Wall Observer thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3386487.0


Let's pump this baby to .2 BTC again folks! You can do it!

I'm really tempted to hijack the BCH/USD WO thread with BTC topics as these bcash shills do it with our beloved BTC/USD WO thread

[Torque]

Consensus is a very nebulous concept, miners, users, merchants, full nodes, loud twitter trolls, who determines what  constitues it, and what/who determines the result.

I'm not quite sure why you say this about consensus being nebulous. Like at all.

It is crystal clear. The real Bitcoin is the coin/fork that the most end users are buying and using because they all agree on its value (consensus) relative to and above all the others. Miners simply follow the money, and mine what is selling the most and best to make profit (the incentive). Brokers and merchants also follow what is most popular in usage.

Why are people trying to make this harder than it is?

[jojo69]

"users"

[fluidjax]

Consensus is a very nebulous concept, miners, users, merchants, full nodes, loud twitter trolls, who determines what  constitues it, and what/who determines the result.

I'm not quite sure why you say this about consensus being nebulous. Like at all.

It is crystal clear. The real Bitcoin is the coin/fork that the most end users are buying and using because they all agree on its value (consensus) relative to and above all the others. Miners simply follow the money, and mine what is selling the most and best to make profit (the incentive). Brokers and merchants also follow what is most popular in usage.

Why are people trying to make this harder than it is?

What's the metric then? Price, average number of transactions, all of them can be faked and manipulated (BCash is a good example), consensus is not obvious, and miners (Bcash - jihan) do not always follow the money, they play a longer game.

It's become common to use the word "consensus" like we all know what it means, but I don't think its easy to define and its definately not easy to measure.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

I see we're still over $9k... currently $9363USD/$12010CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

It feels like it might stick this time. Go Bitcoin go.

[Toxic2040]

Its nice to see you all back and in such fine form. All we need now is a guest appearance by the Mayor and all would be right in the world imho. Need to bait the tarp..where did we stash that crate of pants..
-----------------
Bitcoin

Good Morning all.

Here comes that volatility.  This band of resistance/support we are entering has played a significant role in Bitcoins price action since it was encountered last year. I think we are heading towards 10K+ price but it would do well to keep a eye on this area for support if a bounce downward happens.


We have acquired this modified Schiff fork I have been looking at but it is tenuous at best right now. Further movement upwards could validate this trend line. Short term I expect a small amount of shorting and profit taking and perhaps even some consolidation in this area before heading upwards again.

[Torque]

What's the metric then? Price, average number of transactions, all of them can be faked and manipulated (BCash is a good example), consensus is not obvious, and miners (Bcash - jihan) do not always follow the money, they play a longer game.

It's become common to use the word "consensus" like we all know what it means, but I don't think its easy to define and its definately not easy to measure.

With Bitcoin I can buy things from tens of thousands of merchants across the world.

With BCash I can't buy anything from any merchant. Save maybe Ver's one favorite coffee shop in Timbuktu.

Merchants follow the consensus of most end user usage. You really want to tell me that the "metric" between these two is somehow nebulous or not easy to measure?

Even outside of commerce, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could logically dispute that Bitcoin is the most widely held coin (in terms of # users who hodl it). Although I agree that it's not easy to accurately measure that beyond # of non-zero accounts.

The idea of consensus also contains a major element of trust. Bitcoin has earned the most "trust" above all others.

[fluidjax]

What's the metric then? Price, average number of transactions, all of them can be faked and manipulated (BCash is a good example), consensus is not obvious, and miners (Bcash - jihan) do not always follow the money, they play a longer game.

It's become common to use the word "consensus" like we all know what it means, but I don't think its easy to define and its definately not easy to measure.

Seriously?

With Bitcoin I can buy things from tens of thousands of merchants across the world.

With BCash I can't buy anything from any merchant. Save maybe Ver's one favorite coffee shop in Timbuktu.

Merchants follow the consensus of end user usage. You really want to tell me that the "metric" between these two is somehow nebulous or not easy to measure?

I think most merchants don't really know much about Bitcoin, and when someone comes along and offers them some sort of POS crypto system, that allows them to 'ride the wave' they simply take it.
If Roger & Co. pushes his BCash terminals into lots of shops and the numbers surpass the number of shops that accept Bitcoin, it means nothing, it's easy to measure sure, but its not an indication of consensus.

Consensus is easy to judge when its like BCH/BTC, 10% to 90%,  but if there was something that was closer it would be almost impossible, and everyone would use different metrics to prove their own version of the consensus.

[Ibian]

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

Disengage from Nazi noise too, and you could find even more respect.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

mmm hitler is very easy ....
on an non ethical way he helped on science and a few things where we have advantage on after the war and his dead , BUT in big lines he did evrything wrong by just killing innocent...

but to say he did nothing wrong is just sick to say .... but everybody's own oppinion ....    

Define innocent.

[Torque]

Consensus about what is the real Bitcoin also has to do with the spirit or intent. Not blindly following 'Satoshi's Vision' as described in the whitepaper, but does the ongoing development support the attributes originally conceived without sacrificing some (or all) of them at the same time?

I believe that Satoshi would be very pleased with progress of things like SW and LN and the effect it has had so far. In fact if he were still involved, he would have likely assisted in the creation of them himself.

Since Bitcoin is fully transparent to the masses, they can research this, understand it, and make a decision. The collective decision making so far is reflective of this consensus agreement that Bitcoin is the real Bitcoin.

Ver's camp believes the masses are stupid, ignorant and lazy, and thus can be bullied and manipulated into believing what is "the real Bitcoin". They are wrong.