Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Elwar]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here  

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

As someone with a lot of bcash I created a Wall Observer thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3386487.0

Let's pump this baby to .2 BTC again folks! You can do it!


Wall Observer has been forked. Join the true Wall Observer thread!

[fluidjax]

Consensus decides what Bitcoin is. If, sometime in the future, consensus dictates that Bcash is the real Bitcoin, I would acknowledge that. However, I'd also acknowledge that Bitcoin has failed, and I would disengage from the space altogether, and focus on Monero or something.

Exactly this. +1000.

Consensus is a very nebulous concept, miners, users, merchants, full nodes, loud twitter trolls, who determines what  constitues it, and what/who determines the result.

Consensus treats Bitcoin like a crown, where it is effectively awarded to the most popular chain whilst it has consensus. Outside of these times, it is not Bitcoin. So a chain could alternate between Bitcoin and Non-Bitcoin status as opinions change.

I'd rather think of Bitcoin as something that is passed down unbroken from the genesis block, when a fork occurs the Bitcoin title can be passed to the forked code. But, as in the base of BCash,  the forked code can't claim the name Bitcoin once it failed to get consensus at the time of the fork, it's too late, it must use a different name.

[vroom]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here 

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

As someone with a lot of bcash I created a Wall Observer thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3386487.0


Let's pump this baby to .2 BTC again folks! You can do it!

I'm really tempted to hijack the BCH/USD WO thread with BTC topics as these bcash shills do it with our beloved BTC/USD WO thread

[Torque]

Consensus is a very nebulous concept, miners, users, merchants, full nodes, loud twitter trolls, who determines what  constitues it, and what/who determines the result.

I'm not quite sure why you say this about consensus being nebulous. Like at all.

It is crystal clear. The real Bitcoin is the coin/fork that the most end users are buying and using because they all agree on its value (consensus) relative to and above all the others. Miners simply follow the money, and mine what is selling the most and best to make profit (the incentive). Brokers and merchants also follow what is most popular in usage.

Why are people trying to make this harder than it is?

[jojo69]

"users"

[fluidjax]

Consensus is a very nebulous concept, miners, users, merchants, full nodes, loud twitter trolls, who determines what  constitues it, and what/who determines the result.

I'm not quite sure why you say this about consensus being nebulous. Like at all.

It is crystal clear. The real Bitcoin is the coin/fork that the most end users are buying and using because they all agree on its value (consensus) relative to and above all the others. Miners simply follow the money, and mine what is selling the most and best to make profit (the incentive). Brokers and merchants also follow what is most popular in usage.

Why are people trying to make this harder than it is?

What's the metric then? Price, average number of transactions, all of them can be faked and manipulated (BCash is a good example), consensus is not obvious, and miners (Bcash - jihan) do not always follow the money, they play a longer game.

It's become common to use the word "consensus" like we all know what it means, but I don't think its easy to define and its definately not easy to measure.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

I see we're still over $9k... currently $9363USD/$12010CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

It feels like it might stick this time. Go Bitcoin go.

[Toxic2040]

Its nice to see you all back and in such fine form. All we need now is a guest appearance by the Mayor and all would be right in the world imho. Need to bait the tarp..where did we stash that crate of pants..
-----------------
Bitcoin

Good Morning all.

Here comes that volatility.  This band of resistance/support we are entering has played a significant role in Bitcoins price action since it was encountered last year. I think we are heading towards 10K+ price but it would do well to keep a eye on this area for support if a bounce downward happens.


We have acquired this modified Schiff fork I have been looking at but it is tenuous at best right now. Further movement upwards could validate this trend line. Short term I expect a small amount of shorting and profit taking and perhaps even some consolidation in this area before heading upwards again.

[Torque]

What's the metric then? Price, average number of transactions, all of them can be faked and manipulated (BCash is a good example), consensus is not obvious, and miners (Bcash - jihan) do not always follow the money, they play a longer game.

It's become common to use the word "consensus" like we all know what it means, but I don't think its easy to define and its definately not easy to measure.

With Bitcoin I can buy things from tens of thousands of merchants across the world.

With BCash I can't buy anything from any merchant. Save maybe Ver's one favorite coffee shop in Timbuktu.

Merchants follow the consensus of most end user usage. You really want to tell me that the "metric" between these two is somehow nebulous or not easy to measure?

Even outside of commerce, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could logically dispute that Bitcoin is the most widely held coin (in terms of # users who hodl it). Although I agree that it's not easy to accurately measure that beyond # of non-zero accounts.

The idea of consensus also contains a major element of trust. Bitcoin has earned the most "trust" above all others.

[fluidjax]

What's the metric then? Price, average number of transactions, all of them can be faked and manipulated (BCash is a good example), consensus is not obvious, and miners (Bcash - jihan) do not always follow the money, they play a longer game.

It's become common to use the word "consensus" like we all know what it means, but I don't think its easy to define and its definately not easy to measure.

Seriously?

With Bitcoin I can buy things from tens of thousands of merchants across the world.

With BCash I can't buy anything from any merchant. Save maybe Ver's one favorite coffee shop in Timbuktu.

Merchants follow the consensus of end user usage. You really want to tell me that the "metric" between these two is somehow nebulous or not easy to measure?

I think most merchants don't really know much about Bitcoin, and when someone comes along and offers them some sort of POS crypto system, that allows them to 'ride the wave' they simply take it.
If Roger & Co. pushes his BCash terminals into lots of shops and the numbers surpass the number of shops that accept Bitcoin, it means nothing, it's easy to measure sure, but its not an indication of consensus.

Consensus is easy to judge when its like BCH/BTC, 10% to 90%,  but if there was something that was closer it would be almost impossible, and everyone would use different metrics to prove their own version of the consensus.

[Ibian]

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

Disengage from Nazi noise too, and you could find even more respect.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

mmm hitler is very easy ....
on an non ethical way he helped on science and a few things where we have advantage on after the war and his dead , BUT in big lines he did evrything wrong by just killing innocent...

but to say he did nothing wrong is just sick to say .... but everybody's own oppinion ....    

Define innocent.

[Torque]

Consensus about what is the real Bitcoin also has to do with the spirit or intent. Not blindly following 'Satoshi's Vision' as described in the whitepaper, but does the ongoing development support the attributes originally conceived without sacrificing some (or all) of them at the same time?

I believe that Satoshi would be very pleased with progress of things like SW and LN and the effect it has had so far. In fact if he were still involved, he would have likely assisted in the creation of them himself.

Since Bitcoin is fully transparent to the masses, they can research this, understand it, and make a decision. The collective decision making so far is reflective of this consensus agreement that Bitcoin is the real Bitcoin.

Ver's camp believes the masses are stupid, ignorant and lazy, and thus can be bullied and manipulated into believing what is "the real Bitcoin". They are wrong.

[Last of the V8s]

"users"

junkies?

[Anon136]

I'm less enthused about sailboats than I was. Getting a new motor boat in the water this year, way faster and more convenient to get around, and they tend to have better indoor space. This one certainly does.

Can you share it with us? I'm curious. I love sailing and I love yachts. It should come as no surprise that I really love when the two of them are together in one package but I still like each of them independently.

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

Disengage from Nazi noise too, and you could find even more respect.

That comment was a response to what was being discussed in the thread at that time and it deals with very important issues but I certainly never intended to harp on it in this thread. Also just for clarity I should add that I am definitely not a Nazi. People some times think failure to deny it is some sort of admission of guilt.

Consensus decides what Bitcoin is. If, sometime in the future, consensus dictates that Bcash is the real Bitcoin, I would acknowledge that. However, I'd also acknowledge that Bitcoin has failed, and I would disengage from the space altogether, and focus on Monero or something.

I can respect that answer. I don't think we have that consensus quite yet. There is definitely a good sized minority out there who believe that bcash is "the real bitcoin". Heck one such example was what started this whole discussion. Hopefully bcash will die and we will get that consensus sooner rather than later.

[bitcoinPsycho]

I want some of BitcoinPsycho's crazy pills

If your ever in the uk look me up

[Elwar]

Didn't you know this is the Wall Observer Maximalist thread.

I know exactly what you mean but risk being shouted at to say that here 

On the date of the bitcoin cash fork. Bitcoin core forked too didn't they? That was when segwit was activated. The original bitcoin in reality is an etheric and ambigous thing which probably no longer exists. The real shit slinging match is over the brand.

"Wall Observer BTC/USD"
You may be confused by /r/btc, but BTC is Bitcoin. You're more than welcome to create a Bcash or Bitcoin Pizza Wall Observer thread in the altcoin section.

As far as the "original" Bitcoin, I'm sure you can find a copy of Satoshi's original software release from 2009, but you're going to be the only one running it. And you'd be missing out on some amazing new features, which have allowed Bitcoin to scale relatively well without increasing the blocksize or increasing centralization.

As someone with a lot of bcash I created a Wall Observer thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3386487.0


Let's pump this baby to .2 BTC again folks! You can do it!

I'm really tempted to hijack the BCH/USD WO thread with BTC topics as these bcash shills do it with our beloved BTC/USD WO thread

I considered talking about nothing but the copper and nickel metal market.

[infofront]

Anyway I'm getting really tired of this and really annoyed that there isn't one single person to step forward to say that they understand what I mean. Even though I really do believe in what I am saying and I think that I have good arguments behind it even I am starting to feel like a troll at this point. So I think I am going to disengage from this pursuit.

Disengage from Nazi noise too, and you could find even more respect.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

mmm hitler is very easy ....
on an non ethical way he helped on science and a few things where we have advantage on after the war and his dead , BUT in big lines he did evrything wrong by just killing innocent...

but to say he did nothing wrong is just sick to say .... but everybody's own oppinion ....    

Define innocent.

Stop trolling.

[Torque]

I don't think we have that consensus quite yet. There is definitely a good sized minority out there who believe that bcash is "the real bitcoin".

...aannd there's your problem right there. If you believe that consensus means that 100% of end users are going to agree on what is the real Bitcoin, then you're never going to achieve consensus. Because that's never going to happen.

Some things in this world are only proven as self-evident. People vote with their fiat.

[STT]

Here comes that volatility.  This band of resistance/support we are entering has played a significant role in Bitcoins price action since it was encountered last year. I think we are heading towards 10K+ price but it would do well to keep a eye on this area for support if a bounce downward happens.
https://i.imgur.com/QwUMVV5.jpg

We have acquired this modified Schiff fork I have been looking at but it is tenuous at best right now. Further movement upwards could validate this trend line. Short term I expect a small amount of shorting and profit taking and perhaps even some consolidation in this area before heading upwards again.
https://i.imgur.com/3Ib2dQP.jpg

As often the case with Bitcoin I'm surprised how it moves more rapidly then I would expect.   This is true in both directions but I always expect it to take longer upwards then it does.    My very short term view is price confirming above previous resistance, this is working its way through orders overhanging from the decline.     The Tide returning picking up the old bands of seaweed on the shore, not quite sure of that analogy but theres memory in the price is what we are encountering here.   I do rate this positively, I expect some pullback from 9277 but its just stepped over it


https://i.imgur.com/ffINn1k.png

[Anon136]

I don't think we have that consensus quite yet. There is definitely a good sized minority out there who believe that bcash is "the real bitcoin".

...aannd there's your problem right there. If you believe that consensus means that 100% of end users are going to agree on what is the real Bitcoin, then you're never going to achieve consensus. Because that's never going to happen.

Some things in this world are only proven as self-evident. People vote with their fiat.

No I don't. If bcash was like #17 or #37 on coinmarketcap I would call that consensus and be done with it. But it isn't now is it. It's number fucking 3. THREE! It's FIVE TIMES the market cap of Monero, which is a truly exceptional project.

Bcash should be "just another altcoin" at best. I can say that with confidence because looking at the tech you can show that it's privileged position above all of the other rank and file altcoins has nothing to do with tech, there is no special tech there anywhere. So it must be that it's wildly high marketcap comes from something else besides the tech. I think it follows that the thing that sets it apart in this way is that a sizable minority of people believe it is bitcoin.

So there too is my standard for when I would say there is consensus that bitcoin core is the real bitcoin. When bcash's marketcap is that of any other rank and file altcoin. Or maybe I would say when it has a value that reflects it's utility.

*edit* I said 3 instead of 4 because ripple isn't really a cryptocurrency and it's claimed supply isn't actually traded anyway even if it was.