Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Ibian]

Get the fuck out of here

You are a boring talky man. At least try some new material.

[jbreher]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I did not say anything about BCH. The topic is clearly segwit.

What the fuck are you talking about... you MORON.

[jbreher]

%43 btc dominance

Well, at least we get a silver lining.

[JayJuanGee]

Get the fuck out of here

You are a boring talky man. At least try some new material.

Oh my!!!!!!! Can you focus goofball Ibian?

I have several posts in recently in which I respond to you (and your posts) and I responded to various substantive issues.

Instead of attempting to address the various topics and to stay on track, you seem to purposefully get distracted into nonsensical and irrelevant personality (or tone or style) issues?  

Get a fucking grip, because tone is merely a means to highlight or emphasize issues (and so fucking what if there is some repetition in the tone or style?  

How am I supposed to draft my posts, like a poet?   Get real....

Focus Ibian, Focus.  Stay on the road, and don't get caught up in the trees.    

[Ibian]

Get the fuck out of here

You are a boring talky man. At least try some new material.

Oh my!!!!!!! Can you focus goofball Ibian?

I have several posts in recently in which I respond to you (and your posts) and I responded to various substantive issues.

Instead of attempting to address the various topics and to stay on track, you seem to purposefully get distracted into nonsensical and irrelevant personality (or tone or style) issues?  

Get a fucking grip, because tone is merely a means to highlight or emphasize issues (and so fucking what if there is some repetition in the tone or style?  

How am I supposed to draft my posts, like a poet?   Get real....

Focus Ibian, Focus.  Stay on the road, and don't get caught up in the trees.    

Brevity would be a start.

[JayJuanGee]

%43 btc dominance

Well, at least we get a silver lining.

"we"  ? 

Are you one of the described "we", jbreher?

[mymenace]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I don't like yogi more than anyone else here, but it is a valid question. Why choose segwit over legacy? Anyone is welcome to chime in.

Why choose segwit over legacy?

To ensure a consistent economy subject to the whim of the central bankers

To continue useless debate to divide the bitcoin masses

To watch manipulated markets and try and guess them with TA

[Last of the V8s]

@jjg you tried to insult me twice overnight with your false equivalences
your vacuous verbosity
your inane sputterings
your fishwife babble
your neotenic prate
your dullard drivel

but meh, you are but a fly on the dags on this magnificent bull

[kaicrypzen]

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC? This being 1) his ego and 2) his efforts in BCH.

here is the link

https://cryptobriefing.com/bitmain-51-attack-bitcoin-network/

Short answer: No

Long answer:
It somehow still baffles me how some people always expect the worse and get ahead of themselves and events with what-ifs.

I can probably safely assume that the hashrate of these pools is not restricted to Jihan Wu's faithful soldiers, so even if Jihan intended to do a 51% attack, I assume that other miners would leave the pools to prevent that, unless all of them are on board with the attack, which seems quite hard to imagine.

Why would he do that and kill his business and his reputation? Does anyone here think that if a 51% attack is done on the Bitcoin network any other crypto would survive? That'll probably be the end of an industry that I believe could be worth trillions in the not-so-far future.

In my opinion, This is just another pseudo-journalism salary-justifying FUD-spreading article.

As usual, this is just my opinion and I'll be happy to hear different thoughts.

[babanana]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I did not say anything about BCH. The topic is clearly segwit.

What the fuck are you talking about...

Why don't you start your own thread and stay there you MORON.
Go away. The stink of BTrash is with you.

[TReano]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I did not say anything about BCH. The topic is clearly segwit.

What the fuck are you talking about...

I love how all the Bitcoin-Cash hater use insulting language and have a new account with 4 posts. Pathetic.

Why don't you start your own thread and stay there you MORON.
Go away. The stink of BTrash is with you.

I love how all the B-Cash haters only use insults with a new 4 posts old account. It's unbelivable what is going on in this community. Complete Censorship on reddit for years, Troll accounts everwhere....

[JayJuanGee]

@jjg you tried to insult me twice overnight with your false equivalences
your vacuous verbosity
your inane sputterings
your fishwife babble
your neotenic prate
your dullard drivel

but meh, you are but a fly on the dags on this magnificent bull

I still am unclear about your status... so from my perspective, I was NOT trying to insult you personally, except, it seems that I was only suggesting that you might be losing some of your patience with the bitcoin price... and perhaps I thought that throwing a few insults at you might be helpful to snap you out of your tizzy, perhaps?   

But now you want to devolve into irrelevant poetry... so perhaps, there is some progress on the capitulation end of these matters?  ---  just the fact that posts in this thread are kind of drying up and having a bear/troll/fud spreading theme... ... reminding me a bit of late 2014 - ish... 

[Last of the V8s]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I did not say anything about BCH. The topic is clearly segwit.

What the fuck are you talking about...

I love how all the Bitcoin-Cash hater use insulting language and have a new account with 4 posts. Pathetic.

Why don't you start your own thread and stay there you MORON.
Go away. The stink of BTrash is with you.

I love how all the B-Cash haters only use insults with a new 4 posts old account. It's unbelivable what is going on in this community. Complete Censorship on reddit for years, Troll accounts everwhere....

[babanana]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I did not say anything about BCH. The topic is clearly segwit.

What the fuck are you talking about...

I love how all the Bitcoin-Cash hater use insulting language and have a new account with 4 posts. Pathetic.

Why don't you start your own thread and stay there you MORON.
Go away. The stink of BTrash is with you.

I love how all the B-Cash haters only use insults with a new 4 posts old account. It's unbelivable what is going on in this community. Complete Censorship on reddit for years, Troll accounts everwhere....

I can also smell the stink with you. You need glade.

[El duderino_]

[El duderino_]

So even if you have some skepticism of segwit, it might be prudent of you to support the actual (rather than hypothetical) direction of bitcoin by storing a portion of your coins on segwit, even if, you decide to follow through and store the vast majority in legacy addresses

All right, I'll bite...

What about storing some value on a segwit address is prudent?

FUCK off. Your BTrash is a trash coin. A shitcoin. don't leave your shitcoin here. Open your own fucking thread moron.

I did not say anything about BCH. The topic is clearly segwit.

What the fuck are you talking about...

I love how all the Bitcoin-Cash hater use insulting language and have a new account with 4 posts. Pathetic.

Why don't you start your own thread and stay there you MORON.
Go away. The stink of BTrash is with you.

I love how all the B-Cash haters only use insults with a new 4 posts old account. It's unbelivable what is going on in this community. Complete Censorship on reddit for years, Troll accounts everwhere....

[Last of the V8s]

Bravo.
But please to not go just yet.
There's a lot of stuff here needs your corrections, clarifications and rebuttals.
A lot-a-lot.

[doc12]

Wow bcashers spinning up FUD lately, somethings in the making?

Take that for granted: Bcash will NEVER take Bitcoins position, never ever. And if you somehow manage to take it violently, Bitcoin will take your shitty Altcoin to the abyss.  No option for victory here, max. a Pyrrhic victory.

[ivomm]

https://nulltx.com/bitcoin-price-watch-currency-spikes-by-100/

This is the 10-th time I read about it this week. Facebook buying Coinbase? Why not?  

......
In addition, it appears Facebook has some big ambitions when it comes to the crypto space. Rumors are swelling that the social media platform is looking at purchasing Coinbase, one of the largest and most trusted digital currency exchanges in the United States. The move is slated to bring a major tech giant into the cryptocurrency arena, bringing further legitimacy to the world of digital assets and implementing Facebook’s value and utility.

“It wouldn’t surprise me if Facebook tried to acquire Coinbase,” says tech entrepreneur Oliver Isaacs. “Whether [Coinbase CEO] Brian Armstrong and the team would agree is another question.”

At press time, the rumors have not been confirmed as truth, though Armstrong has hinted in the past that his team would like to reach a minimum of one billion customers, and having Facebook’s help could make that a possibility.
......

[bitserve]

If you haven't seen this before it's worth a watch.

Andreas explains why Big Blocks are not going to work. (watch time: 5-6mins, Petabyte Blocks & Streaming Money)

https://youtu.be/AecPrwqjbGw?t=11m39s

Segwit in its current form can't handle hundreds of millions of users either. That was never what it was about. We needed a step up, a year earlier than we got it, and we had a few options to do so. For the current leg, and I repeat myself yet again, why was segwit better than simply doubling the blocksize? Nobody seems willing to explain that bit, for whatever reason.

Because Segwit is an upgrade that enables many new technolgies, L2 & L3. Technologies that will enable millions of TX's per second.

We don't need an incremental step in the wrong direction, as perfectly illustrated by Andreas, big blocks can never fullfill the Bitcoin dream, because PetaByte blocks are effectively impossible.

I guess if you think doing the wrong thing as a temporary fix, and incurring the associated Technical debt is OK. There is little I can do to defend segwit, but in my mind and the minds of many other developers, it's not acceptable, so Big Blocks are not an option at all.

If bigger blocks are a bad idea then why are you not advocating for a blocksize decrease? Why do we have Precisely the Correct Blocksize as things now stand? Also I'll need to see some convincing numbers for the millions claim.

Most people who see LN and other Layer 2+ solutions as being the way forward for scaling also realize bigger blocks are an eventual necessity.  But I would want to be conservative.  Since shit expands to fill the space available we should see how we can do with efficiency BEFORE we add resources.  

People keep saying that and I call bullshit on it. Why would people start making more transactions just because the network has more capacity? It makes no sense at all.

Hash Time Locked Contract (HTLC) payment networks including Lightning Networks and the Layer 2 and 3 technologies have three major problems:

1. They force centralization onto hubs. Those who think this is not true, I can defeat you in a debate even though I will not expend my time on that debate now. Because of this centralization, they destroy the security of both the off-chain transactions, and they weaken the security of the on-chain Nash equilibrium because they create large hubs that hold economic control of the network. Remember as the block reward decreases, Nakamoto proof-of-work looses incentives compatibility to converge on a single longest chain and will fork off into innumerable forks unless there’s a stable oligarchy cooperating. See the Decentralization section of my blog post. This off-chain crap is the antithesis of the utmost priority on the security of the game theory of the chain which is what gives Bitcoin its status as the reserve currency of crypto (and eventually of the world). So there is no way that shit is going to be allowed on Bitcoin. That stuff will end up pushes off on a Core fork or other fork off from Satoshi’s protocol where the $billionaire economic majority will remain steadfast.

2. None of that shit scales because it drives up the need for larger blocks. Yet larger blocks are not a scaling solution (not the in correct mathematical) definition of scalability.

3. The transaction fees will become too high for users to open a payment on channel on-chain (as they will be competing against the hubs who dominate the available MBs per block), thus LN is going to be a fractional reserve system where users open accounts at hubs as they do with exchanges today.

I explained some of this is more detail at the following linked post (including my critique of layer 2 proposals):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4435201.0#msg39666724

I figured out a long time ago that on-chain transaction volume scalability is going to come from an altcoin. And that is what I have been working on. If I successfully mitigate the nothing-at-stake, censorship, liveness, and economic capture vulnerabilities of proof-of-stake, then what I will have is far superior to that off-chain crap. Bitcoin will remain the reserve currency. So I hope you understand I need to STFU and work.

I don’t have enough time to get involved in another long argument. I might not reply even if someone thinks I’m incorrect and even if I possess a correct rebuttal. So take this FWIW to you. I’m don’t claim to be omniscient, yet I’m reasonably well studied/researched on technological, game theory, and political-economics issues of consensus ledgers. I roughly guess that I have more specific knowledge on this than Andreas, but I haven‘t spoken with him nor watched all of his videos.

Well, I will try my luck to see a reply.

About your points:

1- Yes, some L2, like LN might be more or less centralised. Let's assume a hub and spoke topology for LN.... What's the problem? It's just one of the second layers of BTC. That doesn't make Bitcoin more or less centralised. The alternative, in case of mass adoption, would be corporate (coinbase, etc) online user wallets with no blockchain impact. I do prefer LN which, at least, settle channels on Blockchain and reduce the risk of "evil" hubs incurring in fractional reserve banking practices. In that, LN becomes a more DECENTRALISED alternative to online wallets. It does not substitute blockchain tx's but online wallets.

If you want to (really) scale, you either choose between L2 settled to blockchain or "L2" online wallets with no settling at all. My choice is clear in this case.

2- Segwit+L2 is a scaling solution as it makes it possible to handle several times more tx's for the same blocksize. Segwit does so by moving signatures to a secondary place and L2 by offloading main chain. And both do work as capacity multipliers for each linear blocksize increase. That's the very meaning of scalability!

Of course one of the capacity factors is the underlaying block size, which will need to be increased as needed if adoption growths in the future.
Multipliers/scaling factors (L2, Segwit, etc) are needed, but so is blocksize increase if we want to reach capacities several orders of magnitude higher than currently.

I envision a future in which 80% or more of tx's will be on L2 (small stuff mainly... cofee anyone?) and THAT will leave more room for other (bigger) tx's to be directly on blockchain. That is scaling.... and I don't care at all if my small change stuff is more or less decentralised. Not at all as soon as my main reserves are safely stored ON-CHAIN.

3- Again, somewhat correct, BUT you seem to forget that as more tx's get routed through other L2 channels/sidechains there is more capacity available on main chain. I don't see how you see LN to be or allow a fractional reserve system... All LN channels need to be PRE-FUNDED by real BTC on the main chain. I really don't follow your thinking here. The alternative (online wallets on main providers) IS a fractional reserve risk and that is what we want to avoid with L2 solutions like LN.