Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

but at the same time, he doesn't need our BTC since he seems to have more than we do, and he's got nothing for sale that we could pay in BTC.

Well, if that BTC-denominated digital music distributor is still in business, you can still by a copy of my CD for 1.2 BTC. I'd even accept 1.2 Segwit coins for a copy.

Aren't you undermining your own argument when you are seeming to give the EXACT same value to legacy BTC and segwit tainted coins?  Would you like to specify (or correct yourself) further here, jbear?

Nope. If you want to negotiate with me, I'd be willing to send you a CD of my (charting) album for less than 1 BTC - as long as that BTC isn't tainted by Segwit in its past.

That's better than 17% discount! Such a deal for you!

O.k.  I understand that the some prices are more subject to negotiation than others, and if you are in a retail store, sometimes they will be wiling to take less for products if you make a reasonable offer.  Of course, a private sale between principles who have the authority to bind the terms will have more flexibility, if they are willing, and when push comes to shove, some terms might be more flexible than others, and perhaps, you might be willing to give a greater value to legacy (non-segwit tainted) coins? But, likely in the end, if we negotiated all of the terms except for whether payment would be by legacy or segwit tainted coins, you may well recognize that the coins have the same value and are likely to have the same value for quite a period into the future - and there may even be times in which segwit coins are going to have more value because they have more flexibility in terms of lower fees, faster transaction times, lightning network compatible and perhaps some multi-sig and other programabilities.  For the sake of this argument, you might posture that the value to you is different, but you have already admitted that you would do the same price in the earlier referenced post.

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[JayJuanGee]

Tldr; security reasons...

So implement Segwit through a mechanism that introduces new attack vectors.

Nope. Still doesn't make sense.

Do you recall how irritated your fuck-buddy, Jihan, was that segwit would no longer allow him to engage in covert ASIC boost?  

Nope.

Jihan isn't my fuck-buddy. Indeed, I've never met the dude.

I don't recall that Segwit no longer allows for ASICboost.

I don't recall any credible evidence that Jihan ever profited from covert ASICboost.

I don't remember any demonstrable irritation on Jihan's part regarding segwit's impact upon ASICboost.

But feel free to bring forth any evidence that might cover my knowledge gaps. (as if)

::ahem!::

More importantly, your deflection has exactly zero to do with the fact that the implementation of Segwit introduced novel attack vectors to Bitcoin. Perhaps we should discuss this first, before deviating to your smokescreen. Hmm?

I thought that we were planning to make up soon and to let bygones be - at least for the time being.

As you should realize, I hardly have any interest in your topic about the supposed many negative aspects of segwit and your supposed understanding of a cost/benefit analysis weighing against segwit.  You probably understand that your segwit bashing is a kind of wheels spinning endeavor that borders on off-topicness and shit coin pumping rather than really attempting to discuss meaningful bitcoin issues... and segwit is a part of bitcoin, not some stupid ass proposal that you would like the community to reject (not even a realistic option).

You can choose to believe what you like in regards to the supposed negative aspects of segwit and to invest into bitcoin or not based on your perception of its direction.  

In essence, I don't expect you to give up on your bitcoin bashing, especially since it seems that you have been attempting to emphasize several supposed bitcoin negativities for quite some time?  2 years or so, perhaps longer?  

I recall  that you got more heavily supportive of some of the segwit bashing in early 2017.. and seems that you were a BIG blocker tard a while before that (perhaps as early as early 2016) and of course when bcash became the preferred BIGBLOCKtards preferred bitcoin bashing vehicle (in July 2017 and moreso thereafter), you certainly jumped onto that attack vector train with seeming ease frequently employing the royal "we" perspective to argue your nonsensical BIGBLOCKER talking points and ongoing harping about the direction of bitcoin (while supposedly still investing in bitcoin as a "hedge?").

[DaRude]

Just realized that Bitcoin's hash rate is up +100% since January 2018 and around +25% since May as well as +15% from two weeks ago.

That's a nice hashrate miners. Those are some nice ASICs.

It would be shame if someone...

changed...

the algorithm.

It's not going to happen, so I don't know what your point is except to bring up something that is not going to happen?

not to be an ass...but actual question...I read someplace a month ago, actually the claim that miners need about $6,600 usd to make profit mining ..this

was for the majority of big BTC miner halls...IF, the price dumps (see LTC) and there is an overabundance of ASIC miners (see LTC) is it not possible that

it could get so bad or centralized (see LTC Bitmain) that perhaps this could be the case? I used LTC as an example ..which is not exactly fair, in that they have

many pow-scrypt coins effected in this manner, not just Bitcoin forks....but there has to reach a point in price vs mining...where it could be you just could NOT

mine coin at a price without having to change algo?

anyway, probably not explained right, but you get the direction...what would it take to change algo on BTC? (if any)

The miner's break even price point speculation is as accurate as top/bottom calling. No one knows and it's different for each miner. As far as algo change, that's a nuclear option, and like the real nuclear weapon just having it is enough of a deterrent. That option was floated when Bitmain got too ballsy and tried to corner the market with their asicboost. Community responded with UASF and segwit to level the playing field. That worked to a degree, Bitmain went to spin off bcash, and we didn't have to use the algo change. Long term, Moore's law will hit and the playing field will level out. Until then it'll be a bumpy ride, but should get smoother with everyday.

As far as being forced to do it, that's very unlikely for BTC. That's how they used to kill shitty alts, throw a ton of hash power at an alt, wait for difficulty adjustment and then drop off, reducing the hash+increasing difficulty resulted in increased time between blocks to the point where alt was unusable, and rest of the network would have to mine at a loss until next difficulty adjustment. The insane hashrate of BTC makes it very unlikely and cost prohibitive. Plus this move would be offset by the market increasing their transaction fees which would make mining more lucrative  again.

[Asrael999]

https://twitter.com/BithumbOfficial/status/1009239883645243392

[Notice for the suspension of all deposit and withdrawal service]
We checked that some of cryptocurrencies valued about $30,000,000 was stolen. Those stolen cryptocurrencies will be covered from Bithumb and all of assets are being transferring to cold wallet.

*All deposit and withdrawal service will be stopped to make sure the security. We will keep notice you of the restart of the service. We apologize for your inconvenience and thanks for your understanding.

timing is everything Kevin, twas no coincidence


more to come?


will there be a big one or multiple?

Perfectly timed hack - such FUD.   Why do people keep building trust into trustless systems?

[realr0ach]

Why do people keep building trust into trustless systems?

Bitcoin is not a trustless system.  If you can't hold it in your hand and defend it with a machine gun, you don't own it.  Shitcoins all have built-in middlemen, don't remove counterparty risk, and rely on numerous external parties to function at all.  It is ENTIRELY out of your control whether your imaginary tokens will remain sendable/usable, or still exist in the morning.

[vit05]

Tron bought BitTorrent

Using Bitcoin. =)

[Micky25]

Tron bought BitTorrent

I wonder what makes BitTorrent worth $140 million.

[Elwar]

Tried to install LN node on my server but I have to run a full node. My server only has 200 Gb.

Is there a preferred way among people without home servers?

While I understand your frustration, 10TiB costs about 0.02 BTC in today's marketplace.

Yes, I may need to go and search again.

What I tend to find is the cheap, high capacity sites don't allow me to do hardly anything on their server except run their Cpanel type of apps. Instead of install my own version of Linux, ssh in and set up my own access controls.

Though I've been using this server for 5 years so ya...likely due for an upgrade.


Would love to hear about some of these cheap, large hard drive VPSs out there though if someone wants to share.

[shahzadafzal]

No, Bitcoin Won't Use Up All The World's Energy

Bitcoin using too much energy is thus pure FUD as it originates in the sectors that will lose more or be
disrupted most by the blockchain, the latest being the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), a core
piece of the global banking infrastructure.

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies also potentially replace gold as an international asset of last resort and it is
said the energy expended raping the earth for the precious gold monetary relic is five times that expended on
bitcoin. Even if it was a 1:1, the replacement of gold by bitcoin would surely be an environmental good.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2018/06/18/no-bitcoin-wont-use-up-all-the-worlds-energy/

[realr0ach]

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies also potentially replace gold as an international asset of last resort

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2018/06/18/no-bitcoin-wont-use-up-all-the-worlds-energy/

Bullshit statement.  Gold and silver are NOT "money of last resort".  Physical commodity currency is the only real money that exists.  It just so happens scams that do not represent any type of real world goods or wealth such as fiat and bitcoin have seemingly positive traits like less friction (i.e. the ability to transfer imaginary 0's and 1's around faster).  But you're not actually sending any type of wealth, it's just a meaningless ledger that says:  I have 999 units of imaginary, valueless garbage in my account and you have 0 units, so you are now my slave and must do my bidding.

Except your imaginary digital units have no valid Schelling point because it's based on artificial scarcity and anyone can create a new shitcoin to bypass you.  So no, nobody is ever going to be your slave while using fake money based on artificial scarcity unless you can also enforce that zero sum game slavery ledger with violence on top of it.  

The only way you're going to enslave anyone by having more arbitrary chits in your account than them without using violence to prevent them from bypassing your ledger is by using a real world good with intrinsic value that people actually need and they cannot bypass. You know, like hoarding all the physical silver as hostage and forcing them to pay ransom to get it.

[Last of the V8s]

Tried to install LN node on my server but I have to run a full node. My server only has 200 Gb.

Is there a preferred way among people without home servers?

While I understand your frustration, 10TiB costs about 0.02 BTC in today's marketplace.

Yes, I may need to go and search again.

What I tend to find is the cheap, high capacity sites don't allow me to do hardly anything on their server except run their Cpanel type of apps. Instead of install my own version of Linux, ssh in and set up my own access controls.

Though I've been using this server for 5 years so ya...likely due for an upgrade.


Would love to hear about some of these cheap, large hard drive VPSs out there though if someone wants to share.

http://pizarroisp.net/

edit oh hey there's even a thread right here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4453723.msg39844787#msg39844787

[shahzadafzal]

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies also potentially replace gold as an international asset of last resort

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2018/06/18/no-bitcoin-wont-use-up-all-the-worlds-energy/

Bullshit statement.  Gold and silver are NOT "money of last resort".  Physical commodity currency is the only real money that exists.  It just so happens scams that do not represent any type of real world goods or wealth such as fiat and bitcoin have seemingly positive traits like less friction (i.e. the ability to transfer imaginary 0's and 1's around faster).  But you're not actually sending any type of wealth, it's just a meaningless ledger that says:  I have 999 units of imaginary, valueless garbage in my account and you have 0 units, so you are now my slave and must do my bidding.

Except your imaginary digital units have no valid Schelling point because it's based on artificial scarcity and anyone can create a new shitcoin to bypass you.  So no, nobody is ever going to be your slave while using fake money based on artificial scarcity unless you can also enforce that zero sum game slavery ledger with violence on top of it. 

The only way you're going to enslave anyone by having more arbitrary chits in your account than them without using violence to prevent them from bypassing your ledger is by using a real world good with intrinsic value that people actually need and they cannot bypass. You know, like hoarding all the physical silver as hostage and forcing them to pay ransom to get it.

Did you understand the statement "international asset"?
What you think what is "a real world good with intrinsic value"?
BTW why would you enslave anyone?

[shahzadafzal]

Another reason why we need bitcoin!

Rats chew up ₹12,000,000 (USD 17,614) in cash at an ATM in Assam India

https://i.imgur.com/JehL48nl.jpg

[Kylapoiss]

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

So it has died 315 times now.

And the next 24h are critical.

[realr0ach]

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies also potentially replace gold as an international asset of last resort

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2018/06/18/no-bitcoin-wont-use-up-all-the-worlds-energy/

Bullshit statement.  Gold and silver are NOT "money of last resort".  Physical commodity currency is the only real money that exists.  It just so happens scams that do not represent any type of real world goods or wealth such as fiat and bitcoin have seemingly positive traits like less friction (i.e. the ability to transfer imaginary 0's and 1's around faster).  But you're not actually sending any type of wealth, it's just a meaningless ledger that says:  I have 999 units of imaginary, valueless garbage in my account and you have 0 units, so you are now my slave and must do my bidding.

Except your imaginary digital units have no valid Schelling point because it's based on artificial scarcity and anyone can create a new shitcoin to bypass you.  So no, nobody is ever going to be your slave while using fake money based on artificial scarcity unless you can also enforce that zero sum game slavery ledger with violence on top of it.  

The only way you're going to enslave anyone by having more arbitrary chits in your account than them without using violence to prevent them from bypassing your ledger is by using a real world good with intrinsic value that people actually need and they cannot bypass. You know, like hoarding all the physical silver as hostage and forcing them to pay ransom to get it.

Did you understand the statement "international asset"?
What you think what is "a real world good with intrinsic value"?
BTW why would you enslave anyone?

You don't seem to get it do you?  Money is a zero sum game of enslavement.  All forms of money are ledgers where the haves enslave the have-nots.  I explained it thoroughly in my post.  The only difference is that some forms of these ledgers like fiat require violence to force people to use them or it falls apart because...people refuse to use it.  

Bitcoin has the same problem.  If you have 20.9 million shitcoins and I only own 1 shitcoin, I'm definitely not going to volunteer to be your slave because you have more imaginary, valueless tokens than me (which is why you constantly see people boycotting things like Darkcoin and it's masternode owners).  I would simply bypass your system and refuse to use it, either by making my own shitcoin or just using something else.  The only way you could stop me is violence.  

This is why any system of money based on artificial scarcity is garbage.  They're all easily bypassed without a monopoly of violence forcing people to use them.  If I hoard all the physical silver in the world, you cannot simply bypass me, and me having 999 units of silver and you having 0 units actually does make you my slave (unless you plan to go back to hunter gatherer civilization).  As you may have guessed by now, it's easier to enslave other people using silver than gold because gold has far less intrinsic value/use case.  The bankers are currently playing the wrong side of the fundamentals game there, which will inevitably revert with silver importance drastically increasing compared to gold.

[Rsiyz]

" J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. ... Along with Wells Fargo, Citigroup, and Bank of America, J.P. Morgan Chase received $25 billion on October 28, 2008 as one of four of the original nine U.S. banks to receive money from the Treasury under its Capital Purchase Program. "

And as to why we need banks, what is going on is they DO provide some benefit to Society. But banks take for themselves, and they will push harder and harder until generally most people are neutral either way to the existence of private banks like these.

What they do is - as long as there are profits, that goes to shareholders or owners. But if there are losses - then that becomes a bailout covered by taxpayers or by haircuts or bail-ins which are slightly better (but still abusive if they are done like they were in Cyprus)

Bitcoin exists because of their abuse of the system.

Further, if they manipulate this benchmark, it's because they can adjust the perception of market players about the value of dollars now and into the future. They can do that manipulation because they are so central and because the supply of dollars is so fuzzy and controlled by the Federal Reserve (another quasi-government entity).

[Totscha]

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

So it has died 315 times now.

And the next 24h are critical.

We'll see in two weeks^TM

[mymenace]

Bitcoin


Starting from mined precious metals

Metals to produce valuable technology

Technology to utilize energy and peer to peer networks

Networks layered with mathematics to decentralize and share information

Information across vast distances and industry

Bringing real currency - Bitcoin, to the world




Keep your dollar

[Rsiyz]

baad baad usa ...     cancer

When videos that get over a million views only pay out two or three hundred dollars to their creators, it's no wonder that a nonprofit community software effort wouldn't even bother with monetization. With zealous and lazy censorship, DMCA abuse, a complete lack of communication, and a failure to even provide fair and basic remuneration, the world needs an alternative to YouTube quick. But the network effects make creating one rather difficult.

https://www.blender.org/media-exposure/youtube-blocks-blender-videos-worldwide/

https://np.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8s8ec1/youtube_blocks_blender_videos_worldwide/?sort=new

[Torque]

OT: Well well well, sabotage is the name of high stakes Wall Street game.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-musk-email-employee-conducted-extensive-and-damaging-sabotage.html

Reminds me of the Chipotle story. From 2012-2015 the company's stock was flying high on a massive bull run for years with nothing but MSM praise and great earnings. Then in 2015 when the stock peaked and started to roll over, suddenly out of nowhere they mysteriously had an E. Coli outbreak in supposedly 14 states, causing the stock to plummet. It has never recovered since.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chipotle-e-coli-conspiracy-theory-2015-12

Mmmm hmmm... how convenient for the short sellers...