Bitcoin Forum
June 25, 2019, 02:53:09 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: Closing BTC Price June 28:
$0 - 5 (3.5%)
<$7,000 - 4 (2.8%)
$7,000-$7,499 - 0 (0%)
$7,500-$7,999 - 0 (0%)
$8,000-$8,499 - 1 (0.7%)
$8,500-$8,999 - 3 (2.1%)
$9,000-$9,499 - 4 (2.8%)
$9,500-$9,999 - 26 (18.3%)
$10,000-$10,499 - 23 (16.2%)
$10,500-10,999 - 12 (8.5%)
$11,000-$11,499 - 13 (9.2%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 10 (7%)
>$12,000 - 30 (21.1%)
>$20,000 - 11 (7.7%)
Total Voters: 142

Pages: « 1 ... 23029 23030 23031 23032 23033 23034 23035 23036 23037 23038 23039 23040 23041 23042 23043 23044 23045 23046 23047 23048 23049 23050 23051 23052 23053 23054 23055 23056 23057 23058 23059 23060 23061 23062 23063 23064 23065 23066 23067 23068 23069 23070 23071 23072 23073 23074 23075 23076 23077 23078 [23079] 23080 23081 23082 23083 23084 23085 23086 23087 23088 23089 23090 23091 23092 23093 23094 23095 23096 23097 23098 23099 23100 23101 23102 23103 23104 23105 23106 23107 23108 23109 23110 23111 23112 23113 23114 23115 23116 23117 23118 23119 23120 23121 23122 23123 23124 23125 23126 23127 23128 23129 ... 24317 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21241158 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (66 posts by 16 users deleted.)
GreatArkansas
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 348


KnowNoBorders.io


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 04:39:55 AM
Merited by jojo69 (1)

Where I can find the 'hat' avatar rules things?
There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1561431189
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1561431189

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1561431189
Reply with quote  #2

1561431189
Report to moderator
infofront
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1694
Merit: 1729


Shitcoin Minimalist


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 04:43:18 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), deepcolderwallet (1)

Where I can find the 'hat' avatar rules things?

To wear the hat, one must earn the hat.

To earn the hat, one must become the hat.

HairyMaclairy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868
Merit: 1405


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 04:44:25 AM

1215 called to remind us that a parliament is no way to run a kingdom.

Have you considered getting a King?  I can make some recommendations if you are willing to keep an open mind?
GreatArkansas
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532
Merit: 348


KnowNoBorders.io


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 04:47:03 AM

Where I can find the 'hat' avatar rules things?

To wear the hat, one must earn the hat.

To earn the hat, one must become the hat.


Hahahaha. I still can't understand, how to become the hat then?
BTCMILLIONAIRE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 771



View Profile
March 13, 2019, 04:49:41 AM

Where I can find the 'hat' avatar rules things?

To wear the hat, one must earn the hat.

To earn the hat, one must become the hat.


Hahahaha. I still can't understand, how to become the hat then?
Ask Papa John's to make you one with everything.




Or kindly ask our mad hatter xhomerx.
Paashaas
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1944
Merit: 1360



View Profile
March 13, 2019, 04:50:12 AM

LN grows 24/7  Cool

Dogboy714
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 9


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:00:00 AM

But why? How is it being used?
micgoossens
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 2188


When 10K Lets HAT up!!!!!


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:15:49 AM

Thanks for the hat. I don't mind that GreatArkansas is using it too.



No me to

They are Unique “codes” HAT attached to single persons

Only Maybe the birthday HAT etc is multi use Smiley
BTCMILLIONAIRE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 771



View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:17:33 AM

But why? How is it being used?
To learn how to use it. And to establish reputation for the future. Both of which imply a chance for passive income down the road.
micgoossens
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 2188


When 10K Lets HAT up!!!!!


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:18:20 AM

Where I can find the 'hat' avatar rules things?

Ask XhomerX he’s the HAT-takemi.....

Provide him something and he Will create you an Unique piece of HAT art
micgoossens
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 2188


When 10K Lets HAT up!!!!!


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:20:00 AM

Where I can find the 'hat' avatar rules things?

To wear the hat, one must earn the hat.

To earn the hat, one must become the hat.



How does one become Trump and Thanos in one the same HAT?
micgoossens
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 2188


When 10K Lets HAT up!!!!!


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:36:08 AM

A taxi accepting bitcoin in Barcelona.  The virus is spreading.  #bitcoin

Nice!

https://twitter.com/rivetacrypto/status/1105613744070164481?s=21
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932
Merit: 1809


How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:46:08 AM
Last edit: March 13, 2019, 06:10:16 AM by JayJuanGee

But why? How is it being used?
To learn how to use it. And to establish reputation for the future. Both of which imply a chance for passive income down the road.

I agree with you, BTCMILLIONAIRE, that lightning network is in a kind of practice stage, which means learning and building more tools and experimenting, and of course, if more and more tools are developed, then income opportunities will develop as well.

On the other hand, I doubt that such lightning network income is anywhere close to achieving passive income status (even though that does seem to be a reasonable long term goal).  The mere concept of "passive income" means that you earn money with little to no work, and from what I can tell, there are a lot of true believers involved in lightning network, and therefore, seem to be putting in way more work than what is likely to pay off for them on any kind of personal financial level.  In other words, even though failure of lightning network would not be failure of bitcoin, but overall success of lighting network causes the Bitcoin network as a whole to become more valuable, as well as those lil tokens that we endearingly we refer to as corn.    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
HairyMaclairy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868
Merit: 1405


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:53:58 AM

But why? How is it being used?

It’s going to be a screamer once the exchanges get on board and allow lighting deposits and withdrawals.
nutildah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1787


Permanent Tourist


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 05:56:08 AM

But why? How is it being used?
To learn how to use it. And to establish reputation for the future. Both of which imply a chance for passive income down the road.

There's really no such thing as "passive income." There's legitimate income and then there's income from scams, like MLMs and Ponzis. With investing and lending you still need to exercise extreme diligence in order to make a profit, so I wouldn't call those "passive" either.

The whole point of using Lightning is that its faster and cheaper than on-chain transactions. If you set your channel fee too high people will bypass it and you will make less income than you did by setting a low fee. If the cost of doing a lightning transaction supersedes that of an on-chain transaction, people will simply revert to transacting on-chain.

Also, its not overly simple to set up and maintain your own lightning node (though it is a lot easier today than it used to be). Maintaining a consistent internet connection, having to pay for that and the electricity of running your computer also need to be factored into the overall cost.
Danslip
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 506


★YoBit.Net★ 1400+ Coins Exchange


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 06:13:40 AM

A taxi accepting bitcoin in Barcelona.  The virus is spreading.  #bitcoin

Nice!

https://twitter.com/rivetacrypto/status/1105613744070164481?s=21
At least good news from South America. After Argentina now Brazil is ready for mass adoption. A virus is spreading faster than I expected.
BTCMILLIONAIRE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 771



View Profile
March 13, 2019, 06:24:25 AM

There's really no such thing as "passive income." There's legitimate income and then there's income from scams, like MLMs and Ponzis. With investing and lending you still need to exercise extreme diligence in order to make a profit, so I wouldn't call those "passive" either.

The whole point of using Lightning is that its faster and cheaper than on-chain transactions. If you set your channel fee too high people will bypass it and you will make less income than you did by setting a low fee. If the cost of doing a lightning transaction supersedes that of an on-chain transaction, people will simply revert to transacting on-chain.

Also, its not overly simple to set up and maintain your own lightning node (though it is a lot easier today than it used to be). Maintaining a consistent internet connection, having to pay for that and the electricity of running your computer also need to be factored into the overall cost.

I agree with you, BTCMILLIONAIRE, that lightning network is in a kind of practice stage, which means learning and building more tools and experimenting, and of course, if more and more tools are developed, then income opportunities will develop as well.

On the other hand, I doubt that such lightning network income is anywhere close to achieving passive income status (even though that does seem to be a reasonable long term goal).  The mere concept of "passive income" means that you earn money with little to no work, and from what I can tell, there are a lot of true believers involved in lightning network, and therefore, seem to be putting in way more work than what is likely to pay off for them on any kind of personal financial level.  In other words, even though failure of lightning network would not be failure of bitcoin, but overall success of lighting network causes the Bitcoin network as a whole to become more valuable, as well as those lil tokens that we endearingly we refer to as corn.    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
While accurate, I would consider the part after the completion of my due diligence process at least mostly passive. Some re-evaluation might be prudent every so many weeks, months, years depending on maturity. But it's different from the rat race of trading or working.
Basically, you create a slope and a ball and then bring the ball up. Then watch the ball as it rolls down. But if you built an elevator all you'll have to do in the future is to put the ball in and press a button. At least for as long as the mechanics don't wear down. So while not 100% passive, for all practical purposes passive income exists if you're smart about it.


Also, as LN matures there will be ways to automate data collection and adjustments of fee structure. The ramp-up takes work, but in the long run it's mostly passive once the work has been put in. At least if you work towards making it passive. And yes, it's nowhere close to passive income and likely won't be for years. But the groundwork is being laid.
VB1001
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 618


"Four Wheel Drive"


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 06:31:46 AM

LN worries me, the ship heels to centralize too much, or am I not distinguishing the future LN correctly?
 Shocked
BTCMILLIONAIRE
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 771



View Profile
March 13, 2019, 06:40:44 AM

LN worries me, the ship heels to centralize too much, or am I not distinguishing the future LN correctly?
 Shocked
LN brings efficiency and mass adoption as an additional layer on top of the choice of decentralization. The latter is currently not really possible in any sensible way. And even with LN, Bitcoin remains capped, so no more printing press to steal money from workers through inflation.
JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1932
Merit: 1809


How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


View Profile
March 13, 2019, 06:41:00 AM

But why? How is it being used?
To learn how to use it. And to establish reputation for the future. Both of which imply a chance for passive income down the road.

There's really no such thing as "passive income." There's legitimate income and then there's income from scams, like MLMs and Ponzis. With investing and lending you still need to exercise extreme diligence in order to make a profit, so I wouldn't call those "passive" either.

Hey, nutildah, them is fighting words.



hahahaha

What I would like to say is that "passive income" is something that many folks aspire to.  Of course, there is some relativity to how passive is the income, which as you describe, even some passive income sources are going to require a certain amount of work through calculations, monitoring, rebalancing and/or other activities causing them from being less than purely passive.

At the same time, let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and let's use bitcoin accumulation as an example.  Let's say that you have a lifestyle that you believe requires around $36k per year of income to support yourself comfortably, so in that case you would need to have $900k in assets to reasonably generate that kind of income (that is attempting to apply traditional value appreciation assumptions to bitcoin and assuming a withdrawal rate of 4% per year 1% per quarter will not deplete capital, and largely just be digging into asset appreciation).  At today's BTC prices, that would be establishing a stash of about 233 BTC.  

In other words, if your income goal is $36k per year, then 233BTC should help you to largely and mostly achieve passive income status, and the only work that you would need to do is accounting for your withdrawal of about 1% per quarter and any other accounting or security precautions of moving around assets precautions that you believe would be prudent for your own piece of mind.. and/or perhaps changes in your perceptions of the security parameters of your assets.  

Of course, if you want to live in higher luxury or if you believe that you need a bit more of a value cushion in order to ensure your about $36k per year of withdrawal rate (aka passive income), then you could either acquire more bitcoin or wait for the BTC price to go up to a sufficient value before you begin to employ your withdrawal plan of 1% per quarter - passive income plan.

I understand that a lot of peeps here seem to believe that they need more than $36k per year, yet there are also people who definitely understand that they can live on a lot less too, such as $18k per year, and $36k would be a kind of doubling cushion.. nonetheless, because bitcoin has tended to be quite volatile, just to be a lot more comfortable there may be some justification to double your accumulation, or at least calculate your accumulation goal based on worse case BTC price scenarios... such as halfing the BTC price.. from today's price... or something like that.  

Of course, another error that guys in this thread seemed to have made in late 2017 was calculating their retirement and level of richness based on exponentially increasing BTC prices rather than based on correction prices, such as where we are today, and perhaps even using half of todays prices for safety measures.. just to be more prudent in NOT retiring too soon and expecting to live comfortably with the BTC level that you had then accumulated.  


The whole point of using Lightning is that its faster and cheaper than on-chain transactions. If you set your channel fee too high people will bypass it and you will make less income than you did by setting a low fee. If the cost of doing a lightning transaction supersedes that of an on-chain transaction, people will simply revert to transacting on-chain.


I agree with you about the lighting network NOT being a good way to aim towards passive income, at least in the short term, and likely you would need to have way more BTC than what I had mentioned as the 233BTC based on a $3k per month ($36k per year) income from just expected continued BTC appreciation in the coming years of at least 4% per year.

Also, its not overly simple to set up and maintain your own lightning node (though it is a lot easier today than it used to be). Maintaining a consistent internet connection, having to pay for that and the electricity of running your computer also need to be factored into the overall cost.

Kind of reminds me of some folks who planned to get rich by BTC mining, when in the end, they would have done a lot better just buying coins with the amount of money they spent to mine bitcoin.  Though mining did pay off handsomely for some folks, too, and I certainly appreciate miners, and some miners actually feel more comfortable because they are engaging on a higher level with their investment, as compared with some smuck like me who only HODLs coins and spouts off on the interwebs on a regular basis without really engaging on a personal level with the BTC technicals.
Pages: « 1 ... 23029 23030 23031 23032 23033 23034 23035 23036 23037 23038 23039 23040 23041 23042 23043 23044 23045 23046 23047 23048 23049 23050 23051 23052 23053 23054 23055 23056 23057 23058 23059 23060 23061 23062 23063 23064 23065 23066 23067 23068 23069 23070 23071 23072 23073 23074 23075 23076 23077 23078 [23079] 23080 23081 23082 23083 23084 23085 23086 23087 23088 23089 23090 23091 23092 23093 23094 23095 23096 23097 23098 23099 23100 23101 23102 23103 23104 23105 23106 23107 23108 23109 23110 23111 23112 23113 23114 23115 23116 23117 23118 23119 23120 23121 23122 23123 23124 23125 23126 23127 23128 23129 ... 24317 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!