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Question: Closing BTC Price June 28:
$0 - 5 (3.3%)
<$7,000 - 4 (2.6%)
$7,000-$7,499 - 0 (0%)
$7,500-$7,999 - 0 (0%)
$8,000-$8,499 - 1 (0.7%)
$8,500-$8,999 - 3 (2%)
$9,000-$9,499 - 4 (2.6%)
$9,500-$9,999 - 26 (17.2%)
$10,000-$10,499 - 23 (15.2%)
$10,500-10,999 - 12 (7.9%)
$11,000-$11,499 - 14 (9.3%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 14 (9.3%)
>$12,000 - 32 (21.2%)
>$20,000 - 13 (8.6%)
Total Voters: 151

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21242401 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (66 posts by 16 users deleted.)
fabiorem
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May 14, 2019, 09:31:18 PM

I believe some whales are doing swaps with Ripple.

Nothing to worry about. Soon the money returns to Bitcoin.
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encycrypto
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May 14, 2019, 09:33:49 PM
Last edit: May 14, 2019, 09:46:37 PM by encycrypto

I believe some whales are doing swaps with Ripple.

Nothing to worry about. Soon the money returns to Bitcoin.

No, they're not. We're not worried either. Also, if you think that Ripple is doing too god, open its YTD chart and compare it with BTC. You're comparing a lion with a donkey, please don't do that.

*good
HairyMaclairy
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May 14, 2019, 10:18:57 PM

And the daily has swung back green. 

Go Bitcoin go. 
_javier_
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May 14, 2019, 10:30:08 PM

And the daily has swung back green. 

Go Bitcoin go. 

It looks exactly the same as April 2 daily candle.. and look what happened thereafter...  Roll Eyes
HairyMaclairy
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May 14, 2019, 10:33:29 PM

And the daily has swung back green. 

Go Bitcoin go. 

It looks exactly the same as April 2 daily candle.. and look what happened thereafter...  Roll Eyes

HAH.  Good point !
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May 14, 2019, 10:35:21 PM

When institutional money and central banks begin to FOMO, watch out.
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May 14, 2019, 10:44:41 PM
Last edit: May 14, 2019, 11:32:09 PM by toknormal



What "use case" do you think bitcoin solves out of interest ? (Apart from making coin-grabbing early adopters rich)

so you really don´t know it yet? you been in this forum since sub $100 prices. you did not understand it back then, that is why you are no early investor. nothing to be ashamed of. but after 6 years and 6000 posts...    i see...

how about:
permissionless, trustless, uncensorable, borderless secure and safe transfer of value.
unconfiscateable, immutable, truly decentralized and safe store of value.

Those are features of a blockchain, not monetary-economic roles.

Bitcoin is a reserve asset (relatively speaking in the blockchain space). As such its job is to collect and provide continuity to long term capital that's not deployed in some kind of active economic role. In any monetary system you always have a layered structure of diverse assets - always. Thats because there are so many distinct priorities that may be in conflict for a given requirement.

For example, say you're a saver. You want to maximise return on your savings and don't care how they are denominated. You may or may not need regular "income" from your capital, or just protection against goods price inflation long term. That would be one set of priorities which may be met by - whatever: sovereign bonds, equities, indexed funds, gold, silver, bitcoin.



On the other hand, say you're a car manufacturer. You have a 6 month budgeting cycle during which the price of labour, raw materials and plant can go all over the place. On top of that you're exposed to potentially unfavourable currency volatility in foreign markets. Here, you're not interested in maximising return on capital, but rather running your production costs on budget and preserving the margin on future sales. So you invest in a completely different type of money - one that preserves your planning priorities and hedges your risks.



Contrary to the tunnel visioned mono-culture you've been promoting in this discussion, the crypto economy is no different. There will be and IS already a demand for a diversity of trustless monetary blockchains that address specific priorities ranging from realtime trading performance, through various hedging protocols such as stablecoins or commodity pegs, the whole smartcontract sector and crypto-derivative platforms, trustless auction exchanges, invoice factoring platforms, bitcoin clones that prioritise alternative aspects of the protocol, trustless hedging protocols for merchants such as Bitshares.

Bitcoin cannot do all this and was never designed or intended to. If you think one blockchain can run a whole crypto economy you're deluded. Also you can forget any "side chain" or "piggy back" nonsense as well because if there's one thing that's been learned from the old gold standard or trans-national currencies like the Euro, it's that single currencies are a disaster for diverse economies. They transmit all the rot from where the problem is to where it isn't. (Though that doesn't mean that we can't have world reserve asset bases like bitcoin but they are horizontal, not vertical).

The way that all these "alternative classes" create growth in bitcoin is that the monetary systems are layered on top of each other so that the utility assets are near the top and reserve assets at the bottom. One way that this is often expressed is in a metaphor known as "Exter's Pyramid". What happens is that most of the utility capital is deployed and recycled in the utility layers (such as short term business deposit accounts in the classic economy for cash flow). But some of these activities make "excess money" - i.e. profits - which have to be "parked" somewhere as they are excess to requirements. That's how capital starts to drift down through the pyramid and into the successive reserve layers below, adding long term value to them.



So be careful what you wish for. If you really want your BTC to grow, in my opinion you'd better hope the whole economy grows around crypto and that ain't gonna happen with one blockchain - albeit a reserve asset one. Trees have leaves for a reason, the bark on the trunk isn't too great at collecting light for photosynthesis since it's busy doing another job protecting it from reindeer sharpening their antlers. Similarly, altcoins will be the "collectors" of revenue and ultimately capital from a myriad of business sectors that bitcoin would simply never have found its way into on its own. Why do you think the Lightning Network is needed for example ? Because bitcoin can't even adequately fulfill the most basic of trading performance priorities and there are plenty more where that one came from.

What you want for bitcoin growth is LOW relative market dominance, not high dominance. That's also why you see jumps in bitcoin value taking place after a period of decline in dominance - because the high "capital collector" altcoin layers of crypto's "Exter's pyramid" have become saturated, get squeezed, and the excess capital moves to reserve storage in bitcoin.

Finally, I'm not the only one to have made this appraisal of the future structure of the crypto eco-system. Others have taken it much further, such as Tom Luongo who actually posted a version of the pyramid adapted to crypto. This is from a couple of years ago.


HairyMaclairy
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May 14, 2019, 11:26:45 PM

That’s all very good and well.  But the only alt coins that have shown any value to date so far are stable coins.  And even they are quite dubious.  Tether and Dai have shown us that current stable coins are not stable.  They had one job....

Until we have at least one alt coin which has achieved something, I’m afraid your argument has no practical application, and is of theoretical interest only.
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When 10K Lets HAT up!!!!!


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May 14, 2019, 11:33:14 PM

Todays session ended, Exhausted, HODLsleep and HAT change needed.

Gonna catch up with the thread tomorrow.

Good night my fellow BTC-brothers
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May 14, 2019, 11:34:50 PM

That’s all very good and well.  But the only alt coins that have shown any value to date so far are stable coins.  And even they are quite dubious.  Tether and Dai have shown us that current stable coins are not stable.  They had one job....

Until we have at least one alt coin which has achieved something, I’m afraid your argument has no practical application, and is of theoretical interest only.

They relieved the unwary of their bitcoins and sent them to the likes of eduffield, fluffypony, coblee, bytemaster and the other worthy gentlemen.
They achieved that much.
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May 14, 2019, 11:38:23 PM

Just got home from our province just to vote for Midterm election, $6,100 before I left, and now I'm back BTC already reached $8,000.  Cool Cool
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May 14, 2019, 11:40:29 PM
Last edit: May 14, 2019, 11:54:26 PM by toknormal

That’s all very good and well.  But the only alt coins that have shown any value to date so far are stable coins.

What exactly do you mean by "value" ? Value to you ? Value to the market ? Productivity value ?

More importantly...does it matter ? These discussions inevitably end up like an order book = there's somebody parked at every level from zero to infinity. Commentators in the "fiat world" argue bitcoin is useless and valueless just as many bitcoin holders argue altcoins are. Moon Coin from way back in 2014 has no current value. All its value is now in bitcoin because that was the only pairing it ever had. But it was where the "value" went first. Those people bought mooncoin, not bitcoin because many of them would have far less bitcoin today if they'd bought bitcoin first.

Similarly, stocks in typewriter manufacturers from the 1960's have zero value. Their value moved into more permanent vehicles whether that be the next short-lived stock, cash or gold. It doesn't matter because the value was captured and eventually moved down Exter's pyramid.

My point is that all this talk of "alts have no value" is pointless. You might as well say bitcoin has no value because if someone puts their money in Moon Coin first rather then bitcoin, it doesn't. Most people want to earn money quickly, not slowly and reserve assets have never been - nor ever will be - the front door to wealth.

They're where wealth ends up when it matures to a certain stage. That's why most people invest in companies rather than gold and it's why bitcoin needs a healthy altcoin market that's - ideally - multiples of its own size to grow long term.
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May 14, 2019, 11:57:02 PM

By “value” I mean a use case, where the coins have been used for their use case.  

Other than stable coins, no alt coin has ever been used for its intended use case in any meaningful way.  

If they don’t have a viable use case, then they don’t have any value.
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May 14, 2019, 11:57:20 PM



edit: Justin Sun face mat Consensus pee bounty now up to $70 https://twitter.com/StopAndDecrypt/status/1128441005374619648
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May 15, 2019, 12:05:38 AM

My point is that all this talk of "alts have no value" is pointless. You might as well say bitcoin has no value because if someone puts their money in Moon Coin first rather then bitcoin, it doesn't. Most people want to earn money quickly, not slowly and reserve assets have never been - nor ever will be - the front door to wealth.

They're where wealth ends up when it matures to a certain stage. That's why most people invest in companies rather than gold and it's why bitcoin needs a healthy altcoin market that's - ideally - multiples of its own size to grow long term.


So your argument is that altcoins have "value" simply to make short term wealth gains in, instead of buying Bitcoin? Really?

You're missing the whole point of Bitcoin in the first place. SMH
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May 15, 2019, 12:12:23 AM


By “value” I mean a use case, where the coins have been used for their use case.  

Other than stable coins, no alt coin has ever been used for its intended use case in any meaningful way.  

If they don’t have a viable use case, then they don’t have any value.

LoL. Do you actually see how hilarious that sounds coming from a bitcoin promoter ?

You think that bitcoin has any more of a "use case" or is being used for its "intended use case" ? We're 10 years in. What's the Whitepaper called ? "A Peer to Peer Electronic Cash System" ?

Look around you. What did you use the last time you went to the supermarket ? Bought something on Amazon ? Made a withdrawal from the bank ?

Get real. Altcoins are an $80 Billion market - that's quite a lot of "no value". The words pot and kettle spring to mind when people from either camp accuse the other of "not having any value". Most alts are doing what they were designed to do which is more than can be said for bitcoin. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a role, but everything in this entire sector is far more mutually dependent than many of their respective fanboys give credit for.
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May 15, 2019, 12:16:03 AM

That’s all very good and well.  But the only alt coins that have shown any value to date so far are stable coins.  And even they are quite dubious.  Tether and Dai have shown us that current stable coins are not stable.  They had one job....

Until we have at least one alt coin which has achieved something, I’m afraid your argument has no practical application, and is of theoretical interest only.

They relieved the unwary of their bitcoins and sent them to the likes of eduffield, fluffypony, coblee, bytemaster and the other worthy gentlemen.
They achieved that much.

Works great, when I used to mine altcoins and convert to BTC, for a few years...that boat may have sailed however in the USA and home mining wise now Sad
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May 15, 2019, 12:18:31 AM

So your argument is that altcoins have "value" simply to make short term wealth gains in, instead of buying Bitcoin? Really?

You're missing the whole point of Bitcoin in the first place. SMH

No. That isn't what I'm arguing as you'll see if you care to go back and re-read my long post. I'm making the point that reserve assets are not wealth creators, they're wealth maintainers, and that there is a hierarchy of monetary functions and assets that are shorter term and more utilitarian in nature which serve to feed value into those reserve assets. By analogy, bitcoin needs such an ecosystem to survive and grow long term and it needs it specifically in the form of a diversity of trustless blockchain assets as we're seeing emerge.

I'm also making the point that most bitcoin "maximalists" have a flawed appraisal of the "bitcoin dominance" metric. They think it's good when bitcoin dominance is high and rising when in fact it's bad - a bit like a tree loosing all its branches and leaves and having only the trunk sticking out of the ground is bad.
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May 15, 2019, 12:24:45 AM
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By “value” I mean a use case, where the coins have been used for their use case.  

Other than stable coins, no alt coin has ever been used for its intended use case in any meaningful way.  

If they don’t have a viable use case, then they don’t have any value.

LoL. Do you actually see how hilarious that sounds coming from a bitcoin promoter ?

You think that bitcoin has any more of a "use case" or is being used for its "intended use case" ? We're 10 years in. What's the Whitepaper called ? "A Peer to Peer Electronic Cash System" ?

Look around you. What did you use the last time you went to the supermarket ? Bought something on Amazon ? Made a withdrawal from the bank ?

Get real. Altcoins are an $80 Billion market - that's quite a lot of "no value". The words pot and kettle spring to mind when people from either camp accuse the other of "not having any value". Most alts are doing what they were designed to do which is more than can be said for bitcoin. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a role, but everything in this entire sector is far more mutually dependent than many of their respective fanboys give credit for.


Bitcoin is a store of value.  It is working quite well at that.  The market is deep and liquid

Have a look at the order books. That so called $80 billion alt coin market is illiquid and shallow. 
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May 15, 2019, 12:29:06 AM

So if we break 8.5k its likely going to 10k?
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