Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[zyk]

Not really. It can have two winners. I bought at 300$ and sell for 600$, because I want to buy a camera. Then the prices rises to 900$, like you predicted. So buyer and seller win.

Rather: the guy you bought from (if he got for free) won 300$, you won 300$, the chap you sold to won 300$, ahd the chap he sold to lost 900$.

No, the last guy didn't lose $900, he got bitcoin...

and therefore he is an all out loser....having been trapped and still is going to be plundered  by Mark and his buddy - criminals at TBF !

[aminorex]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

What is so difficult to imagine? People would shop for security, fire protection services and schools the same way they shop for anything else. The needy would be provided for by voluntary charity. We draw the line at the the initiation of force. Initiating or threatening violence is not what holds communities and society together.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone not wealthy would want to live in that sort of environment.

What is difficult for me to imagine is why anyone would think that we don't already live in that sort of environment.

One of the service providers, working for the highest bidder, is called the state.  It runs an extortion racket on the side, and occasionally kills a few million people at a go.

[aminorex]

i highly doubt that during the process of transformation towards such a system the whole problem with gobal monopolistic companies backing up their status by influencing politics would simply disappear. Privatization in certain economical sectors like water or electrical power supply has led to very ugly developments at the expense of citizens in a lot of countries around the world.

global monopolistic companies owe their existence to global monopolistic governments.  you can't have one without the other.  the centralized state is no less causally responsible for the privatized water arrangement operated by a centralized corporation than it is for the socialized water arrangement operated by a central state.

[Todorius]

Why the dumping today from 640ish to 620 ish?
Any specific news or just regular price fluctuation?

[freebit13]

Not really. It can have two winners. I bought at 300$ and sell for 600$, because I want to buy a camera. Then the prices rises to 900$, like you predicted. So buyer and seller win.

Rather: the guy you bought from (if he got for free) won 300$, you won 300$, the chap you sold to won 300$, ahd the chap he sold to lost 900$.

No, the last guy didn't lose $900, he got bitcoin...

and therefore he is an all out loser....having been trapped and still is going to be plundered  by Mark and his buddy - criminals at TBF !

But if he hodls for a year he'll be the overall winner.

[hdbuck]

Why the dumping today from 640ish to 620 ish?
Any specific news or just regular price fluctuation?

<---   this 

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

Why the dumping today from 640ish to 620 ish?
Any specific news or just regular price fluctuation?

"sheeps"

"dump because dump"

"panic sells"

"why why why?"

[Richy_T]

Viewing taxation as theft (or as an involuntary taking) is bringing the wrong framework b/c questions about taxation are a lot more complicated than theft  or other categories of involuntary takings.

I disagree. And since you seem to be disinclined to get into the weeds (and this is the wrong forum in any case), I guess that's the end of it.

[octaft]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

Yeah, let's build them! Let's take your knowledge of building roads, my knowledge of building roads, and combined, I'm willing to bet that we'll have a total of zero knowledge of how to build roads. Since we can't do it, someone will have to. But that someone is going to want to be paid for their investment/hard work, so you'll probably have to pay tolls every few miles. Oh, wait, some people can't afford those tolls. Those people better stay home or get ready to walk it, because they're fucked.

The same logic can be applied to pretty much everything else. It's a good society...for those who can afford it. But hey, at least we don't need those poor deadbeats mooching off our roads and having police protection and shit. That's reserved for the people who deserve it. That's for the people with wealth.

Dreams and reality rarely intersect.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[hdbuck]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

*snip

Dreams and reality rarely intersect.

Isnt reality built upon dreams? all that MLK "i have a dream" or "the american dream" and so on doesnt ring a bell?

[BubbaGumpShrimpinBoatCapn]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

Yeah, let's build them! Let's take your knowledge of building roads, my knowledge of building roads, and combined, I'm willing to bet that we'll have a total of zero knowledge of how to build roads. Since we can't do it, someone will have to. But that someone is going to want to be paid for their investment/hard work, so you'll probably have to pay tolls every few miles. Oh, wait, some people can't afford those tolls. Those people better stay home or get ready to walk it, because they're fucked.

The same logic can be applied to pretty much everything else. It's a good society...for those who can afford it. But hey, at least we don't need those poor deadbeats mooching off our roads and having police protection and shit. That's reserved for the people who deserve it. That's for the people with wealth.

Dreams and reality rarely intersect.

Im poor, and i am ok with staying home.  Bring on the anarchism.

[niothor]

Im poor, and i am ok with staying home.  Bring on the anarchism.

Shouldn't you say "bring some food and hookers" ?

[NotLambchop]

...I am convinced that decentralized/voluntary/anarchistic forms of societal organization are far superior to centralized forms in terms of their efficiency...

This is not, nor has it been in recent history, a reality.  The fact that such arrangements have never persisted is, in itself, proof of their implausibility.  A world where there is no crime, for instance, is superior to a world where crime exists.  But such an ideal is as implausible as the utopian volunteerism you describe.  

[aminorex]

...I am convinced that decentralized/voluntary/anarchistic forms of societal organization are far superior to centralized forms in terms of their efficiency...

This is not, nor has it been in recent history, a reality.  The fact that such arrangements have never persisted is, in itself, proof of their implausibility.  A world where there is no crime, for instance, is superior to a world where crime exists.  But such an ideal is as implausible as the utopian volunteerism you describe.  

Huh? What utopian volunteerism?  Are you hallucinating or am I sleeping?  Both?

[BubbaGumpShrimpinBoatCapn]

Im poor, and i am ok with staying home.  Bring on the anarchism.

Shouldn't you say "bring some food and hookers" ?

Well i have guns, property with extensive gardens,  and a long time girlfriend... So dont need food or hooks.  I would trade food for ammunition and solar panels, but depending on when shit hits the fan i may not need those thing by then.

[freebit13]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

Yeah, let's build them! Let's take your knowledge of building roads, my knowledge of building roads, and combined, I'm willing to bet that we'll have a total of zero knowledge of how to build roads. Since we can't do it, someone will have to. But that someone is going to want to be paid for their investment/hard work, so you'll probably have to pay tolls every few miles. Oh, wait, some people can't afford those tolls. Those people better stay home or get ready to walk it, because they're fucked.

The same logic can be applied to pretty much everything else. It's a good society...for those who can afford it. But hey, at least we don't need those poor deadbeats mooching off our roads and having police protection and shit. That's reserved for the people who deserve it. That's for the people with wealth.

Dreams and reality rarely intersect.

What? That's not an argument... that's not even logical. If people are not paying taxes then they would be able to afford the tolls... and only those that use the roads would have to pay for them. It's like you're arguing that people are being expected to work for free... that's just misleading.

Try to think of a system where everyone only pays for what they use... that what's possible with Bitcoin technology.

[hdbuck]

Im poor, and i am ok with staying home.  Bring on the anarchism.

Shouldn't you say "bring some food and hookers" ?

Well i have guns, property with extensive gardens,  and a long time girlfriend... So dont need food or hooks.  I would trade food for ammunition and solar panels, but depending on when shit hits the fan i may not need those thing by then.

How about beers? when never have enough anyway

[BubbaGumpShrimpinBoatCapn]

to which I say: WHERE THE HELL IS MY CHOICE TO LIVE WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT?

I am very curious what no government means to you, and why you'd want to live in a place without one. I mean, it's one thing to want less government intrusion, but are we talking less/no taxes, or are we talking no police department, no public schooling, no fire department. Where do you draw the line?

Oh yeah and about the eternal "what about the roads/fire department/schools/etc." - let's build them. Now that we have Blockchain technology and an increasingly stable currency on top of it we can build all sorts of things on a voluntary and decentralized basis at least for the reason that we don't want to be dependent on the government providing these services. Wouldn't that be a neat thing? Grow the institutions to replace the current system from the ground up. Let's plant some seeds.

Yeah, let's build them! Let's take your knowledge of building roads, my knowledge of building roads, and combined, I'm willing to bet that we'll have a total of zero knowledge of how to build roads. Since we can't do it, someone will have to. But that someone is going to want to be paid for their investment/hard work, so you'll probably have to pay tolls every few miles. Oh, wait, some people can't afford those tolls. Those people better stay home or get ready to walk it, because they're fucked.

The same logic can be applied to pretty much everything else. It's a good society...for those who can afford it. But hey, at least we don't need those poor deadbeats mooching off our roads and having police protection and shit. That's reserved for the people who deserve it. That's for the people with wealth.

Dreams and reality rarely intersect.

What? That's not an argument... that's not even logical. If people are not paying taxes then they would be able to afford the tolls... and only those that use the roads would have to pay for them. It's like you're arguing that people are being expected to work for free... that's just misleading.

Try to think of a system where everyone only pays for what they use... that what's possible with Bitcoin technology.

I cant help but find humor in the argument that people will instantly be unwilling to pay for road construction just because there is no federal government.  That shit kills me.

[NotLambchop]

...I am convinced that decentralized/voluntary/anarchistic forms of societal organization are far superior to centralized forms in terms of their efficiency...

This is not, nor has it been in recent history, a reality.  The fact that such arrangements have never persisted is, in itself, proof of their implausibility.  A world where there is no crime, for instance, is superior to a world where crime exists.  But such an ideal is as implausible as the utopian volunteerism you describe.  

Huh? What utopian volunteerism?  Are you hallucinating or am I sleeping?  Both?

Nah, not unless you type in your sleep.  And unless you're ErisDiscordia's alt account, you are also not being spoken to.  But since you weighed in...  What is it that's bothering you?

This is a new account with 6min. post limit, so shoot for coherency in your reply.