MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[Indamuck]

This is a long thread guys, forgive me for not reading, but I think others are in my boat:

A. Is there an expected date/timeframe for MTGox bag-holders to see their reimbursement?

B. All told how much BTC is expected to be released with that event?

C. Have the authorities outlined a process for handling of unclaimed assets, i.e. accounts that nobody has spoken for? Would they just send the coins to the last known good address? Lol ... that would be funny ... nevermind, forget I asked that.

[ilpirata79]

As I said I cannot access my mtgox page anymore.

I have seen, though, that my request got accepted.

I have made my claim through Kraken.

Will I automatically receive my bitcoins on kraken or do I have to confirm or do something in order to get them?

Thanks,
ilpirata79

[vints998]

Can anybody tell me how I can go about disputing the decision?

I have looked at the published list of claims and the figure shown as my claim is a paltry 100 ish Yen, which is rejected.
I still have a copy of my claim form showing my claim as over 42000 Yen (i.e. 0.8BTC).

Apologies if the answer to this is posted elsewhere, perhaps I could be directed to a more appropriate thread,

thanks,
VH

[reb0rn21]

@vints998
Its not easy, you need a japan lawyer then you must over him provide more details about your claim prolly all translated in japanies, which for sure is not cheap

[Ayle56]

This is a long thread guys, forgive me for not reading, but I think others are in my boat:

A. Is there an expected date/timeframe for MTGox bag-holders to see their reimbursement?

The support area at the Kraken answers that question, which must be one everyone is asking about. If you keep checking the support area it will probably be one of the first places to give a date.

https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/208925817-When-is-the-payout-date-

When is the payout date?

The trustee has not yet announced any details on the payout date.

[Gpretto]

Now check this out... my claim has been accepted, and I am on the creditors list.

But, I filled my form on the intention of receiving back my BTC as japanese money, JPY. The swap operation from BTC to JPYwas made months ago, when the BTC value was much lower.

By inflating the BTC value they can pay back the creditors in cash, as they will have a surprlus of money when they sell their BTC.

I do not think this is nice, or don't even know if it's legal, but I believe that's what they are gonna do.

If I'd want to receive my BTC or updated ammount of JPY, I'd have to submit another form, in the japanese justice system, that is: it is almost impossible to be done, at least for me, as I'm brazilian, living in Brazil.



Just for understanding: My claim has been accepted when 1BTC ~ 50000 JPY. As of today, they are worth ~76000 JPY.

[Bimmerhead]

Now check this out... my claim has been accepted, and I am on the creditors list.

But, I filled my form on the intention of receiving back my BTC as japanese money, JPY. The swap operation from BTC to JPYwas made months ago, when the BTC value was much lower.

By inflating the BTC value they can pay back the creditors in cash, as they will have a surprlus of money when they sell their BTC.

I do not think this is nice, or don't even know if it's legal, but I believe that's what they are gonna do.

If I'd want to receive my BTC or updated ammount of JPY, I'd have to submit another form, in the japanese justice system, that is: it is almost impossible to be done, at least for me, as I'm brazilian, living in Brazil.



Just for understanding: My claim has been accepted when 1BTC ~ 50000 JPY. As of today, they are worth ~76000 JPY.

If the price of BTC had declined would you be willing to accept less JPY?

[iikun]

Now check this out... my claim has been accepted, and I am on the creditors list.

But, I filled my form on the intention of receiving back my BTC as japanese money, JPY. The swap operation from BTC to JPYwas made months ago, when the BTC value was much lower.

By inflating the BTC value they can pay back the creditors in cash, as they will have a surprlus of money when they sell their BTC.

I do not think this is nice, or don't even know if it's legal, but I believe that's what they are gonna do.

If I'd want to receive my BTC or updated ammount of JPY, I'd have to submit another form, in the japanese justice system, that is: it is almost impossible to be done, at least for me, as I'm brazilian, living in Brazil.



Just for understanding: My claim has been accepted when 1BTC ~ 50000 JPY. As of today, they are worth ~76000 JPY.

If the price of BTC had declined would you be willing to accept less JPY?

This raises an interesting point. If the trustee has converted all the claims to fiat equivalent and then applies a btc to fiat rate on the day of payout, then as the BTC price rises the percentage of our claims returned will also increase (due to appreciating btc). I had thought the payout calculation was based on the chosen BTC rate (approx 50,100 JPY) and the ratio of people who said they wanted to be paid out in fiat vs btc. (i.e. that the fiat/btc "balancing" had already taken place and that from that point on we were taking the risk of btc appreciation/depreciation upon ourselves based upon our payout choice.

Either way is fair I suppose but it's just different to how I thought it was being done is all. In a way I suppose it makes sense given that until they had accepted/rejected all claims they really had no idea of what ratio of funds could be returned.

[macsga]

This raises an interesting point only in the case where the creditor(s) demanded the trustee to pay him/her in fiat money. There are people who demanded BTC since this is what they had in their MtGox addresses. If the BTC amount has been accepted, then your BTCs will be delivered as it's stated into the creditors' list. But, yes; there's an issue regarding the BTC price and the timing the funds will be released...

 

[SolarSilver]

This raises an interesting point only in the case where the creditor(s) demanded the trustee to pay him/her in fiat money. There are people who demanded BTC since this is what they had in their MtGox addresses. If the BTC amount has been accepted, then your BTCs will be delivered as it's stated into the creditors' list. But, yes; there's an issue regarding the BTC price and the timing the funds will be released...

it only makes sense that if you filed a claim in JPY, they had to sell the BTC to hedge against a drop in the BTC/JPY exchange at the moment one filed his/her claim

When I filed my claim, I ticked the

I/We would prefer to receive distributions in Bitcoin.

but is there a way to see in the list with accepted claims if we are going to actually get it in BTC or in JPY?

[macsga]

but is there a way to see in the list with accepted claims if we are going to actually get it in BTC or in JPY?

Yes, it's quoted as BTC as well in mine; and the amount I wanted was BTC - as the one I have lost. It says accepted, so I just wait for Kraken for the distribution (fingers crossed).

[SolarSilver]

but is there a way to see in the list with accepted claims if we are going to actually get it in BTC or in JPY?

Yes, it's quoted as BTC as well in mine; and the amount I wanted was BTC - as the one I have lost. It says accepted, so I just wait for Kraken for the distribution (fingers crossed).

Sorry, I should have posted a screenshot, I just don't see where it's confirmed you get BTC and not JPY:



Let's say I'm Maxwell in the list, I see my claim of BTC 928.9681276 (Filed Amount concerning Deposited BTC), I then see the "Filed Claim Amount Converted to Yen (JPY)" and the "Claim Amount Accepted by the Bankruptcy Trustee (JPY)". The line under it in Japanese must say something like "Delay Damages for Bitcoin" I assume

Looking at the small print:

7. The amount of my/our bankruptcy claim will be converted into Japanese yen using the exchange rate designated by the bankruptcy trustee (the closing rate of the telegraphic transfer selling rate of the Tokyo Foreign Exchange Market (the rate published by Mitsubishi UFJ Research and Consulting Co., Ltd.) on April 23, 2014, Japan time) and the Bitcoin rate designated by the bankruptcy trustee (CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index on 23:59 on April 23, 2014 Japan time) (1 Bitcoin = USD483 = JPY50,058.12. This calculation is made using the rate “USD1 = JPY103.64” (the closing rate of the telegraphic transfer selling rate of the Tokyo Foreign Exchange Market (the rate published by Mitsubishi UFJ Research and Consulting Co., Ltd.) on April 23, 2014, Japan time).
8. The distribution that may be made by the bankruptcy trustee to me/us will not violate any legal regulations, including the Japanese Foreign Exchange and Foreign Trade Control Law and the US Finance Ministry's financial restrictions (OFAC regulations).
9. If the bankruptcy trustee makes a distribution by transferring cash into accounts at Kraken or any financial institution, I/we will receive such distribution through an account at Kraken or a finacial institution which is in the same name as the name I/we entered for the filing of my/our bankruptcy claim.
10. If I/we file a bankruptcy claim through Kraken’s system or, if I/we choose to receive a distribution in Bitcoin or in cash through an account with Kraken’s exchange, the bankruptcy trustees will receive information on me/us that are held by Kraken and will disclose to or share with Kraken information on me/us that is necessary to make the distribution.
11. If I/we file a bankruptcy claim through Kraken’s system and suffer any loss due to any trouble, failure, etc. relating to Kraken’s system, I/we will not make any claim, including any claim for damages, against MTGOX and/or its bankruptcy trustee in relation to such loss.
12. If I/we choose to receive a distribution, either in Bitcoin or in cash, through an account with the Kraken’s exchange, such distribution will be completed and the bankruptcy trustee’s responsibility to make such distribution will extinguish when the bankruptcy trustee has transferred to Kraken the Bitcoins and/or cash to be used for the distribution. After the said transfer has been made, I/we will not make any claim including any claim for damages against MTGOX and/or its bankruptcy trustee even if I/we cannot appropriately receive the distribution from Kraken.

can I conclude that if you want to be paid out in BTC, you have to switch to Kraken?

[Tzupy]

In principle, you will always be paid in JPY, about 20% of the last balance, at a fixed bitcoin price.
But if the judge will accept, you could have this 20% in bitcoins, through Kraken, the banks don't convert JPY to BTC.
How exactly will this be done, remains to be seen.

[macsga]

@Solarsilver: This is very specific IMO. You are eligible to get the BTC amount that represents the JPY equivalent of your "back when" deposit in BTC. I agree with Tzupy though; we'll have to be patient (and yes, I've delegated the task to Kraken for my BTC claims) about the way and the final amount we will get.

[macsga]

Kraken just released this:

Dear User

Kraken has received many requests from our clients and others in the community for assistance in disputing accepted or rejected amounts with MtGox claims.
Any claimants with remaining disputes must file an application for an appraisal of their bankruptcy claim with the Tokyo District Court. This is the only process for disputing MtGox claims.
Each creditor with a dispute must file their own appraisal application. To assist the community, Kraken is pleased to provide assistance that, to the best of our knowledge, may be helpful in filing the application. However, Kraken is not responsible for any potential inaccuracies in the provided information, and not responsible for any outcomes.
The best option for claimants would be to find a Japanese lawyer who can help fill out the application. However, according to the Japanese bankruptcy lawyers Kraken spoke with, the first stage of this filing for the claim assessment does not necessarily require a lawyer. Claimants may need an attorney to file a lawsuit.
First, claimants must officially alert the court that they desire their case reviewed before the deadline of June 27, 2016, Japan Standard Time. Kraken has created a template for claimants’ use, but it must be filled out in Japanese. It is the responsibility of claimants to find a Japanese speaker or a translation service to help with this process, as Kraken is not able to assist creditors in filling out this template.
Template: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k4p54zRk3HkeGM8WTfhMMTIlmoDfV7_fwPvrC8-ONi8/pub
Instructions: http://imgur.com/NwyRqSB
Although in an ideal circumstance, a credentialed Japanese attorney can help, it may be adequate to find someone who can write proper Japanese to explain the situation and to provide necessary evidence.
Second, by the deadline on June 27, 2016 in Japan Standard Time, claimants must be sure to mail all required documents to the court. Claimants must mail two copies of the form and two copies of each evidence document (1 for the court, 1 for the trustee) to the Tokyo District Court.
The mailing address of Tokyo District Court can be found below:
The Section in charge of bankrupt entity MTGOX Co., Ltd. 20th Civil Division of the Tokyo District Court 1-2 Kasumigaseki 1-chome Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100-8920 Japan
Thank you for choosing Kraken Bitcoin Exchange
The Kraken Team

[kirth]

Just got it in the email too.
It means every claimant? I mean only those who were rejected or also the ones being accepted?
And where are we supposed to find a japanese speaker/writer within the next week?
That was not clear to me....

[macsga]

Just got it in the email too.
It means every claimant? And where are we supposed to find a japanese speaker/writer within the next week?
That was not clear to me....

To my understanding it is referred only to the ones that want to dispute their case outcome, whether is accepted or rejected. If you have no problem with the amount that is assigned to you, then you don't have any reason to fill a dispute.

To be sure, ask Dargo here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=290799.new;topicseen#new

[Tzupy]

If Kraken really wanted to help, they should have sent the message 20 days ago. There are now only 7 days left to file a complaint, so for those outside Japan it's almost impossible.

[cesmak]

If Kraken really wanted to help, they should have sent the message 20 days ago. There are now only 7 days left to file a complaint, so for those outside Japan it's almost impossible.

Well... Kraken only reported again what the Trustee told with a document dated 3 June that is on the official site mtgox.com (https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20160603_qa_en.pdf) and all the others documents there, so nothing new if you just follow the official site and read pdf docs, as they are just released.....

The problem only exists for those which the claim was rejected, for all the others nothing to be done.

[ilpirata79]

So how much will we receive?
20% of the bitcoin lost?
Maybe less considering that the price of bitcoins has increased? (so the ones who had money will get more)