[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool

[markm]

I wanted to pay out more than 100%, that is, to use a negative fee, because I merged mine numerous chains and that seemed a simple direct way to reward users for helping my merged-mining efforts. However it turns out that simply using a negative amount for the fee does not accomplish what I intended. Maybe it would be useful to cause it to do so, as others too might like to thusly enable their users to benefit from the fact they are actually mining a number of chains at once?

-MarkM-

[Ente]

Am I assuming right that any older p2pool versions now wont mine any more? Then all active miners should have updated by now, so the combined hashingpower should have risen back to its expected value again? It still seems rather low, maybe around 270gh/s? Or did so many miners leave p2pool again? After almost two months of sharp growth, it now slowly falls off?

And, well, I know perfectly well how variance works (a I have to explain it over and over again to a friend, every few days), but the current 'luck' stats seem to have kind of a more serious issue than variance?



Whats going on in the last two weeks?

Also, the green "blocks" line always stays below the "hashes" line. I guess it would be exactly the opposite if the pool would shrink in the rate it now is growing?

I'm not complaining, and of course still mining in p2pool. I just want to see the bigger picture, if there is any. Behind variance.

Ente

[kentrolla]

my p2pool log says Local: 300mh/s   but i'm not getting any shares or btc or anything. cgminer is definitely mining but p2pool is only picking up my hashrate and not showing any shares.  
what am i doing wrong?
for some reason i can't copy the text in p2pool.
also. i can't seem to get the graphs page to work. it tells me to install python-rrdtool.  I installed python 2.7 and zope interface, but when i tried to install rrdtool when i run install.cmd  i get this error:

RRD module for activestate perl 5.8.x
-------------------------------------
The system cannot find the path specified.
'ppm' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
Press any key to continue . . .




also, when i try using my IP address instead of 127.0.0.1 it doesn't work. and i have ports 9332 and 9333 forwarded.
any suggestions?

[wachtwoord]

Which version should we be on?

runp2pool.exe --version gives me:

Install SciPy for more accurate confidence intervals!
1f87c32

[twmz]

my p2pool log says Local: 300mh/s   but i'm not getting any shares or btc or anything. cgminer is definitely mining but p2pool is only picking up my hashrate and not showing any shares.  
what am i doing wrong?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool#Frequently_Asked_Questions

Q: Why am I not getting very many shares?!
A: The P2Pool difficulty is hundreds of times higher than on normal pools. It can take time to get a share. P2Pool displays an estimate of how long you have to wait in the console output.

also. i can't seem to get the graphs page to work. it tells me to install python-rrdtool.  I installed python 2.7 and zope interface, but when i tried to install rrdtool when i run install.cmd

The graphs don't work on windows because python-rrdtool doesn't work on windows.  Switch to linux or wait for the graphs to be changed to not depend on rrdtool.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yep, I had the same phenomenom, bitcoin-qt easily crashes when it is loading the blockchain and is already being molested by p2pool ;-)
bitcoind doesnt seem to crash in that situation, but I wanted to watch the process..

Always use bitcoind.  Never use bitcoin-qt.  You can watch the process. 

For windows:
Start bitcoind (it shows "nothing")
Open a NEW COMMAND LINE.
Enter "Bitcoind getblockcount".
You can also use "Bitcoind help" to see other options.


It seems like p2pool does nothing until it can connect to an up-to-date bitcoin instance. I would prefer that it would already connect to the p2pool network and load its share-chain, for example, to save time.

Ente
[/quote]

[trouserless]

using BAMT on usb sticks.  I can install it in a parallel directory I suppose.  Probably a good idea to keep closer to the latest release anyhow

Here is why I usually do.  install new version in /opt/miners folder under a new directory.  test it on one rig by stopping gpumon and running "new" cgminer manually from that directory.  If everything looks good rename the cgminer folder to cgminer-2.2.7 and rename new cgminer folder (i.e. cgminer-2.3.1 to cgminer.  start from gpumon.  Makes sure everything looks good for a day and then upgrade all other rigs.

It has never failed me.  BAMT has no knowledge of what version of cgminer it is running it simply executes the cgminer in the /opt/miners/cgminer folder.

bitcoind is running on what appears to be an underpowered server (see earlier response to Forrest).  P2pool software is piggy-backing on a miner with 2GB and seems to be not taxing at all (that miner is a BAMT USB stick FWIW).

Stop the troubleshooting.  This is it then.  bitcoind needs to be responsive.  I mean fraction of a second responsive.  Once you get it running fast somewhere put p2pool there too then point all your rig(s) at that p2pool instance.  Having bitcoind and p2pool on the same "server" means less latency.

I think you will find one bitcoind is fast and responsive your stales will plummet.

Thanks D&T, what a difference a capable machine makes.  I found an older laptop and moved both bitcoind and p2pool off the fitpc (AMD geode)  and restarted everything and it's MUCH happier and running well.
Forrest, you may want to add something about a capable machine to run both bitcoind/p2pool software to the FAQ to save some other ancient-hardware-recycling fella time in the future.

Code:

2012-03-11 10:53:10.235156 P2Pool: 17364 shares in chain (17368 verified/17368 total) Peers: 12 (2 incoming)
2012-03-11 10:53:10.235387  Local: 3797MH/s in last 10.0 minutes Local dead on arrival: ~4.0% (2-7%) Expected time to share: 11.4 minutes
2012-03-11 10:53:10.235512  Shares: 51 (5 orphan, 0 dead) Stale rate: ~9.8% (4-21%) Efficiency: ~99.5% (87-106%) Current payout: 0.5899 BTC
2012-03-11 10:53:10.235601  Pool: 282GH/s Stale rate: 9.3% Expected time to block: 6.3 hours

daily graph when I coincidentally made the cut-over around midnight


vs. the previous week

[Ente]

Very true!
I installed a p2pool/bitcoind node on an old notebook, 384mb ram and p3 cpu. It would swap all the time and thus occupy the cpu totally. I didnt even throw any actual miner at it, will switch to a "real" computer next days..

Ente

[rjk]

Should we start a bounty to get this recoded in C/C++? Not sure if there is one already, I remember mention of it earlier. Either pure C, or C++ in the same coding style and using the same libs as bitcoind.

[Ente]

Should we start a bounty to get this recoded in C/C++? Not sure if there is one already, I remember mention of it earlier. Either pure C, or C++ in the same coding style and using the same libs as bitcoind.

Start a bounty, link it here, people will pay in.
The point is.. Who will program it? There is a reason why forrestv chose python, he himself probably will not switch the programming language and start from scratch. So, are we willing to let some unknown guy program it, giving him power over 300+gh and hundreds of nodes and their wallets? How well known and trusted would that programmer have to be? And if someday a new version from a trusted programmer exists, it will take months of testing on testnet before we should throw then 1th on it ;-)

So yes, I still say "do that bounty!", but it might prove quite complicated..
Did you see the 1100+ BTC bounty for a new forum software? Over 4 months old now..

Other approach: If we had many programming hours (bounty for additional programmers?) to throw at the current p2pool: What would we want changed and updated? Only the graphing part? I dont see any fundamental problems to be solved?

Ente

[roomservice]

Other approach: If we had many programming hours (bounty for additional programmers?) to throw at the current p2pool: What would we want changed and updated? Only the graphing part? I dont see any fundamental problems to be solved?

I do. Simplicity. Yes, I realize that it's already pretty simple, but for the average Joe that just wants to point his miner somewhere and be done with it, it's not.

There is even a thread in the newbies section where a guy wants to run P2Pool on a VPS and no one has really helped him much. I would if I knew anything about using a VPS. Anyway, he wants to throw 10-20 Gh/s at P2Pool and doesn't know how.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68049.0

It's asking for a lot, but a single install, bitcoin, P2Pool, and miner would drastically increase the size of P2Pool. No windows, a GUI. One that has built in graphs, etc. Dead simple error messages like: Unable to submit shares - downloading blocks. 

Everyone can start mining p2pool without setting up a node and skip those technical stuff.

Just connect your miner tool on a public p2pool node and use payout address as worker name.

Public p2pool nodes:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66182.0

[Krak]

Of course, but then you are relying on the node to be up, etc. In other words, you lose some main advantages of P2Pool. 

Just put every node in that topic in your server list for backups.

[Boognish]

It's asking for a lot, but a single install, bitcoin, P2Pool, and miner would drastically increase the size of P2Pool. No windows, a GUI. One that has built in graphs, etc.

I've been thinking about that a lot.  My programming skills have long since faded not to mention I certainly don't have the time, but I imagine it would be worth it to someone who does.  I know I would certainly put towards a bounty for it (and donate afterwards).  Something that has a bitcoin wallet, P2Pool and CGminer with a simple decent looking GUI.  I guess the hardest part might be finding a way to make those parts auto-updating.  Regardless, I think it would be a huge boost to P2Pool and perhaps Bitcoin in general.

[echris1]

One of the simplest ways to distribute some sort of all in one installer would be to create a live cd that already has everything all setup.  Then people can just pop in the CD/flash drive, boot up into ubuntu, run one script to configure p2pool, and start it.  I actually tried doing this a while ago, with a downloaded copy of the blockchain to save everyone the lengthy download, but every time I started up bitcoind it would freeze. 

Then a few new pieces of equipment showed up and I got distracted by them, but I will give this another go.

[Red Emerald]

I wanted to pay out more than 100%, that is, to use a negative fee, because I merged mine numerous chains and that seemed a simple direct way to reward users for helping my merged-mining efforts. However it turns out that simply using a negative amount for the fee does not accomplish what I intended. Maybe it would be useful to cause it to do so, as others too might like to thusly enable their users to benefit from the fact they are actually mining a number of chains at once?

-MarkM-

Lol wut?  Where would the coins come from?

Should we start a bounty to get this recoded in C/C++? Not sure if there is one already, I remember mention of it earlier. Either pure C, or C++ in the same coding style and using the same libs as bitcoind.

bitcoind doesn't have easy to use libs.  That's why libbitcoin is being written.  Even with libbitcoin, I don't see any advantages to switching C since libbitcoin has python bindings.  Maybe p2pool could be integrated into the Satoshi client, but I don't think that would help bitcoin much (maybe litecoin though).

It would be cool if p2pool didn't need bitcoind, but that would be quite a bit of work.

[NothinG]

I wanted to pay out more than 100%, that is, to use a negative fee, because I merged mine numerous chains and that seemed a simple direct way to reward users for helping my merged-mining efforts. However it turns out that simply using a negative amount for the fee does not accomplish what I intended. Maybe it would be useful to cause it to do so, as others too might like to thusly enable their users to benefit from the fact they are actually mining a number of chains at once?

-MarkM-

Lol wut?  Where would the coins come from?

I think he's wanting to pull the bitcoins from his wallet.

[Doff]

This is probably a total newb question but what is an orphaned share exactly?

Ive been in the pool about 3 weeks, and Ive had fun supporting this pool, but man its been dry the last couple weeks for sure. I don't understand all the variance. orphaned, dead share stuff yet. Also learning a lot each day about Bitcoin. Now mind you Ive never had a dead share, and only 2-3 orphaned in the last 3 weeks or so, so I don't think there is an issue just wanted to understand it better.

As I said Ive been having fun with Bitcoin and p2pool just wish it would pick back up a bit.

[NothinG]

This is probably a total newb question but what is an orphaned share exactly?

Ive been in the pool about 3 weeks, and Ive had fun supporting this pool, but man its been dry the last couple weeks for sure. I don't understand all the variance. orphaned, dead share stuff yet. Also learning a lot each day about Bitcoin. Now mind you Ive never had a dead share, and only 2-3 orphaned in the last 3 weeks or so, so I don't think there is an issue just wanted to understand it better.

As I said Ive been having fun with Bitcoin and p2pool just wish it would pick back up a bit.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain

Blocks in shorter chains (or invalid chains) are called "orphan blocks", and while they are stored, they are not used for anything. When a block becomes an orphan block, all of its valid transactions are re-added to the pool of queued transactions and will be included in another block. The 50 BTC reward for the orphan block will be lost, which is why a network-enforced 100-block maturation time for generations exists.

I think it's actually a 120-block mature time, though.

[twmz]

This is probably a total newb question but what is an orphaned share exactly?

Ive been in the pool about 3 weeks, and Ive had fun supporting this pool, but man its been dry the last couple weeks for sure. I don't understand all the variance. orphaned, dead share stuff yet. Also learning a lot each day about Bitcoin. Now mind you Ive never had a dead share, and only 2-3 orphaned in the last 3 weeks or so, so I don't think there is an issue just wanted to understand it better.

As I said Ive been having fun with Bitcoin and p2pool just wish it would pick back up a bit.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_chain

Blocks in shorter chains (or invalid chains) are called "orphan blocks", and while they are stored, they are not used for anything. When a block becomes an orphan block, all of its valid transactions are re-added to the pool of queued transactions and will be included in another block. The 50 BTC reward for the orphan block will be lost, which is why a network-enforced 100-block maturation time for generations exists.

I think it's actually a 120-block mature time, though.

He's asking about orphaned shares and not orphaned blocks, but the concept is similar.  An orphaned share happens when two people find shares at about the same time both building on the same previous share.  These two new shares are now in a competition.  One of them will get extended by the next person to find a share and the other won't.  The one that is not extended is an orphaned share and won't result in any payout.

[Doff]

OK that makes sense, thanks for answer much appreciated.

Doff