[ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees

[tekmobile]

Too many "ifs" "unless" "we will call it" far too dynamic to just sideline call it.  Lots of cogs and wheels we don't see... best of luck.  

Thats because we don't know the future just what can happen if this "winning formula" the miners are currently (ab)using continues
If they stop doing this then the miners will leave and you have to wait for the normal adjustment but this will still be unprofitable so I see this happening for the foreseeable future.

Your yearlong forecast omits the November fork. A lot of things are about to change, nobody knows for sure but you can bet your a** that those who have a clue have positioned themselves accordingly.

I wouldn't really call it a forecast just thinking logically and putting ideas out there take them as you wish just something for people to look out for and things that the short sighted may have over looked.

When people see those $$$ they stop thinking rationally just look at how many people bought into things like chaincoin seeing the huge gains and the ever increasing $$$ and what happened there 

[winding-coils]

That's fair, but don't forget that November fork when doing the communities such favors eh  

[tekmobile]

That's fair, but don't forget that November fork when doing the communities such favors eh  

It may not happen in november due to the slower block times most likely will though and if/when that does happen then things can be recalculated depending on what happens

The miners may have shown strong support to get segwit activated but that does not mean anything if the users do not give it value.

I personally can see this being a non starter and dying but who knows I could be wrong I have been before.
BCH would have died in the first week if the miners didn't loose propping it up but since it was their creation they had something to loose where as the 2x fork its identical to BTC just with a slightly larger block they have no mining power to prop it up and no difficulty alterations to abuse so it all depends on if the miners care enough to switch power over I would say no

And this is probably one of the things we can agree on 2x will most likely die

[winding-coils]

That's fair, but don't forget that November fork when doing the communities such favors eh  

It may not happen in november due to the slower block times most likely will though and if/when that does happen then things can be recalculated depending on what happens

The miners may have shown strong support to get segwit activated but that does not mean anything if the users do not give it value.

I personally can see this being a non starter and dying but who knows I could be wrong I have been before.
BCH would have died in the first week if the miners didn't loose propping it up but since it was their creation they had something to loose where as the 2x fork its identical to BTC just with a slightly larger block they have no mining power to prop it up and no difficulty alterations to abuse so it all depends on if the miners care enough to switch power over I would say no

And this is probably one of the things we can agree on 2x will most likely die

All signs point to the fork happening what happens between those two will get interesting with these hash swaps.

BCH held solid for almost two weeks almost a flat line, somebody was carrying the load to keep it alive preventing the continuing plummeting.. then it explodes for 200% ?  It's doing some "consolidation" if that's what it's called, but it isn't plummeting, it's holding some of those gains.

Dash has been making some nice gains, that's one I wish I could have taken a position in earlier...

[tekmobile]

That's fair, but don't forget that November fork when doing the communities such favors eh  

It may not happen in november due to the slower block times most likely will though and if/when that does happen then things can be recalculated depending on what happens

The miners may have shown strong support to get segwit activated but that does not mean anything if the users do not give it value.

I personally can see this being a non starter and dying but who knows I could be wrong I have been before.
BCH would have died in the first week if the miners didn't loose propping it up but since it was their creation they had something to loose where as the 2x fork its identical to BTC just with a slightly larger block they have no mining power to prop it up and no difficulty alterations to abuse so it all depends on if the miners care enough to switch power over I would say no

And this is probably one of the things we can agree on 2x will most likely die

All signs point to the fork happening what happens between those two will get interesting with these hash swaps.

BCH held solid for almost two weeks almost a flat line, somebody was carrying the load to keep it alive preventing the continuing plummeting.. then it explodes for 200% ?  It's doing some "consolidation" if that's what it's called, but it isn't plummeting, it's holding some of those gains.

We all know that someone was ViaBTC and bitmain though.

Bitclub seems to have gone away which I find weird as they were supporting when it was unprofitable but now its profitable due to fast block times are no where to be seen im thinking they were possibly trying to stop the EDA but did not have enough hashing power to create enough blocks

[HostFat]

You can now try https://www.yours.org
(beta release)

[classicsucks]

Anybody who does a normal transaction with normal fees gets confirmed quickly.

There was a time when these were not 'normal fees':

OUCH. So BTC fees are thousands of times higher than BCC. And BTC has a huge full mempool that Segwit lock-in hasn't helped AT ALL.

At this point we can objectively say that BCH is superior technology when compared to BTC. While BTC has name recognition, big investment, a cult of lemming followers, and lots of market inertia, there is really nothing else going for it. Mainstream hodlers aren't technically sophisticated enough to understand the deficiencies of Segwit, full blocks, high fees, and the coming death spiral. Meanwhile, alts pump and ICOs continue unfettered. BTC/fiat continues to skyrocket, so the crunch will be extra painful.

I think the death spiral thing is really scaring the Segwits, so much so that they have to quickly yell and scream about BCH being in a death spiral, despite no evidence of that.

I've read the death spiral argument over and I believe it's sound. Basically if BTC loses hashrate quickly, it grinds to a halt and no one can transact. The already-full mempool just goes astronomical and no blocks are mined. Since BTC has been so slow anyway, if the majority of hashing goes to BCH for even a week, BTC is in serious trouble. If BTC really does fork again, at least one of the BTC forks (probably the 1MB fork) will certainly become useless and die.

[tekmobile]

Anybody who does a normal transaction with normal fees gets confirmed quickly.

There was a time when these were not 'normal fees':

OUCH. So BTC fees are thousands of times higher than BCC. And BTC has a huge full mempool that Segwit lock-in hasn't helped AT ALL.

At this point we can objectively say that BCH is superior technology when compared to BTC. While BTC has name recognition, big investment, a cult of lemming followers, and lots of market inertia, there is really nothing else going for it. Mainstream hodlers aren't technically sophisticated enough to understand the deficiencies of Segwit, full blocks, high fees, and the coming death spiral. Meanwhile, alts pump and ICOs continue unfettered. BTC/fiat continues to skyrocket, so the crunch will be extra painful.

I think the death spiral thing is really scaring the Segwits, so much so that they have to quickly yell and scream about BCH being in a death spiral, despite no evidence of that.

I've read the death spiral argument over and I believe it's sound. Basically if BTC loses hashrate quickly, it grinds to a halt and no one can transact. The already-full mempool just goes astronomical and no blocks are mined. Since BTC has been so slow anyway, if the majority of hashing goes to BCH for even a week, BTC is in serious trouble. If BTC really does fork again, at least one of the BTC forks (probably the 1MB fork) will certainly become useless and die.

A few things wrong with that

1. Segwit just activated people are not using it yet wallets need to roll out versions that give out segwit enabled addresses
2. If BCH was the same value as BTC then the fees would be higher and thats with no volume and well under 1tx/s (currently 0.24tx/s) and block times being 5x faster now what will happen if volume was to increase substantially and block times normalised at 10 mins and people started spamming the mempool constantly im sure things would change
3. The network has not been stress tested to see if it can cope with constant full large blocks it will take considerably longer to verify the block which will mean more empty blocks being mined BTC gets empty blocks mined because a new one is found on the headers of the previous before its verified now multiply that by 8

[winding-coils]

Anybody who does a normal transaction with normal fees gets confirmed quickly.

There was a time when these were not 'normal fees':

OUCH. So BTC fees are thousands of times higher than BCC. And BTC has a huge full mempool that Segwit lock-in hasn't helped AT ALL.

At this point we can objectively say that BCH is superior technology when compared to BTC. While BTC has name recognition, big investment, a cult of lemming followers, and lots of market inertia, there is really nothing else going for it. Mainstream hodlers aren't technically sophisticated enough to understand the deficiencies of Segwit, full blocks, high fees, and the coming death spiral. Meanwhile, alts pump and ICOs continue unfettered. BTC/fiat continues to skyrocket, so the crunch will be extra painful.

I think the death spiral thing is really scaring the Segwits, so much so that they have to quickly yell and scream about BCH being in a death spiral, despite no evidence of that.

I've read the death spiral argument over and I believe it's sound. Basically if BTC loses hashrate quickly, it grinds to a halt and no one can transact. The already-full mempool just goes astronomical and no blocks are mined. Since BTC has been so slow anyway, if the majority of hashing goes to BCH for even a week, BTC is in serious trouble. If BTC really does fork again, at least one of the BTC forks (probably the 1MB fork) will certainly become useless and die.

A few things wrong with that

1. Segwit just activated people are not using it yet wallets need to roll out versions that give out segwit enabled addresses
2. If BCH was the same value as BTC then the fees would be higher and thats with no volume and well under 1tx/s (currently 0.24tx/s) and block times being 5x faster now what will happen if volume was to increase substantially and block times normalised at 10 mins and people started spamming the mempool constantly im sure things would change
3. The network has not been stress tested to see if it can cope with constant full large blocks it will take considerably longer to verify the block which will mean more empty blocks being mined BTC gets empty blocks mined because a new one is found on the headers of the previous before its verified now multiply that by 8

Segwit did just activate, and we are more or less a month away from the next hard fork. How much of the segwit program will actually be implemented by the time the hard fork arrives?  Will there have been substantial time to have some metrics to see what benefit segwit has made before the hard fork?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkbSrmsYJ9c

[tekmobile]

Anybody who does a normal transaction with normal fees gets confirmed quickly.

There was a time when these were not 'normal fees':

OUCH. So BTC fees are thousands of times higher than BCC. And BTC has a huge full mempool that Segwit lock-in hasn't helped AT ALL.

At this point we can objectively say that BCH is superior technology when compared to BTC. While BTC has name recognition, big investment, a cult of lemming followers, and lots of market inertia, there is really nothing else going for it. Mainstream hodlers aren't technically sophisticated enough to understand the deficiencies of Segwit, full blocks, high fees, and the coming death spiral. Meanwhile, alts pump and ICOs continue unfettered. BTC/fiat continues to skyrocket, so the crunch will be extra painful.

I think the death spiral thing is really scaring the Segwits, so much so that they have to quickly yell and scream about BCH being in a death spiral, despite no evidence of that.

I've read the death spiral argument over and I believe it's sound. Basically if BTC loses hashrate quickly, it grinds to a halt and no one can transact. The already-full mempool just goes astronomical and no blocks are mined. Since BTC has been so slow anyway, if the majority of hashing goes to BCH for even a week, BTC is in serious trouble. If BTC really does fork again, at least one of the BTC forks (probably the 1MB fork) will certainly become useless and die.

A few things wrong with that

1. Segwit just activated people are not using it yet wallets need to roll out versions that give out segwit enabled addresses
2. If BCH was the same value as BTC then the fees would be higher and thats with no volume and well under 1tx/s (currently 0.24tx/s) and block times being 5x faster now what will happen if volume was to increase substantially and block times normalised at 10 mins and people started spamming the mempool constantly im sure things would change
3. The network has not been stress tested to see if it can cope with constant full large blocks it will take considerably longer to verify the block which will mean more empty blocks being mined BTC gets empty blocks mined because a new one is found on the headers of the previous before its verified now multiply that by 8

Segwit did just activate, and we are more or less a month away from the next hard fork. How much of the segwit program will actually be implemented by the time the hard fork arrives?  Will there have been substantial time to have some metrics to see what benefit segwit has made before the hard fork?

More or less a month ? its about 3 month should be end of november possibly december depending on how much block times got delayed

All of segwit is implemented ? that does not make sense all it needs is for users to use segwit addresses but until the wallet devs send out updates this wont get mass adoption

segwit will allow for blocks to be around 2MB equivalent but possible to get to around 4MB equivalent so yes its a substantial increase  

[winding-coils]

"All of segwit is implemented ? that does not make sense all it needs is for users to use segwit addresses but until the wallet devs send out updates this wont get mass adoption"

 

Yes, "users to use segwit addresses" you're suggesting this will be at or near 100% implemented? I'm asking, how much of the whole will be using this at the time of the hard fork come November (I forgot my months lol 1month, but it will be here quick, it's taking some many months to get BCH onto places like CoinBase.. why weren't more segwit adopters ready when it was scheduled to go live, wtf is up with that???   )

segwit will allow for blocks to be around 2MB equivalent but possible to get to around 4MB equivalent so yes its a substantial increase 

From what I understand of the block, this is not entirely accurate, can you breakdown exactly the structure and how it will be made to take advantage of a full 4MB?

[tekmobile]

"All of segwit is implemented ? that does not make sense all it needs is for users to use segwit addresses but until the wallet devs send out updates this wont get mass adoption"

 

Yes, "users to use segwit addresses" you're suggesting this will be at or near 100% implemented? I'm asking, how much of the whole will be using this at the time of the hard fork come November (I forgot my months lol 1month, but it will be here quick, it's taking some many months to get BCH onto places like CoinBase.. why weren't more segwit adopters ready when it was scheduled to go live, wtf is up with that???   )

segwit will allow for blocks to be around 2MB equivalent but possible to get to around 4MB equivalent so yes its a substantial increase 

From what I understand of the block, this is not entirely accurate, can you breakdown exactly the structure and how it will be made to take advantage of a full 4MB?

The vast majority is ready https://bitcoincore.org/en/segwit_adoption/ I did expect there to be some released for the day after activation though and eager to see the effects

and for the upto 4MB its something you will never see but it is possible typically you will see up to 2MB equivalent

[winding-coils]

"All of segwit is implemented ? that does not make sense all it needs is for users to use segwit addresses but until the wallet devs send out updates this wont get mass adoption"

 

Yes, "users to use segwit addresses" you're suggesting this will be at or near 100% implemented? I'm asking, how much of the whole will be using this at the time of the hard fork come November (I forgot my months lol 1month, but it will be here quick, it's taking some many months to get BCH onto places like CoinBase.. why weren't more segwit adopters ready when it was scheduled to go live, wtf is up with that???   )

segwit will allow for blocks to be around 2MB equivalent but possible to get to around 4MB equivalent so yes its a substantial increase 

From what I understand of the block, this is not entirely accurate, can you breakdown exactly the structure and how it will be made to take advantage of a full 4MB?

The vast majority is ready https://bitcoincore.org/en/segwit_adoption/ I did expect there to be some released for the day after activation though and eager to see the effects

and for the upto 4MB its something you will never see but it is possible typically you will see up to 2MB equivalent

Thanks for the link!

[BlackWidow]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

[tekmobile]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

I don't think it will go down that far at least not that fast bitmain still has a lot to milk out of this fat cash cow

[bones261]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

The deep pockets better not let the price go that low, unless BTC takes a very huge correction! With the EDA in play, that could lead to a difficulty adjustment that is way too low. It would be a disaster if the difficulty had to be adjusted so low to make Bitcoin Cash profitable, that it would result in block times of 10 seconds or less, when all the miners hop back on.

[tekmobile]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

The deep pockets better not let the price go that low, unless BTC takes a very huge correction! With the EDA in play, that could lead to a difficulty adjustment that is way too low. It would be a disaster if the difficulty had to be adjusted so low to make Bitcoin Cash profitable, that it would result in block times of 10 seconds or less, when all the miners hop back on.

10 second block times sound good to me full 2016 blocks in around 12 hours and 1 day dead means you might get the reward halving before the end of the year

[BlackWidow]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

The deep pockets better not let the price go that low, unless BTC takes a very huge correction! With the EDA in play, that could lead to a difficulty adjustment that is way too low. It would be a disaster if the difficulty had to be adjusted so low to make Bitcoin Cash profitable, that it would result in block times of 10 seconds or less, when all the miners hop back on.

I respect your opinion, but I dont see it.

If I were invested in this, I would cash out my gains, or cut my losses now before it gets any lower. It was nice while it lasted, but in the back of our minds, I think many of us knew it was just another altcoin, that the golden rule still applies: dont fall in love with a coin.

Its NOT taking over BTC, and that is becoming more apparent to those who thought it had a chance, and those that knew all along see the writing on the wall, and are taking their cue, it will be down to $500ish in 48 hours IMHO

[tekmobile]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

The deep pockets better not let the price go that low, unless BTC takes a very huge correction! With the EDA in play, that could lead to a difficulty adjustment that is way too low. It would be a disaster if the difficulty had to be adjusted so low to make Bitcoin Cash profitable, that it would result in block times of 10 seconds or less, when all the miners hop back on.

I respect your opinion, but I dont see it.

If I were invested in this, I would cash out my gains, or cut my losses now before it gets any lower. It was nice while it lasted, but in the back of our minds, I think many of us knew it was just another altcoin, that the golden rule still applies: dont fall in love with a coin.

Its NOT taking over BTC, and that is becoming more apparent to those who thought it had a chance, and those that knew all along see the writing on the wall, and are taking their cue, it will be down to $500ish in 48 hours IMHO

Something needs to change for this to survive only problem the thing that needs to change is also the thing that will kill it and I agree people do seem to be loosing faith but I dont think there was that much to start with.

All the things that was said will happen to BTC did not although what I predicted will happen to BCH does seem could be a reality in the very short future

[bones261]

Its just going to keep fizzling out till its $50

I couldnt call it at first, but it looks like Bitcoin will be ok, and Bitcoin Cash will just be slightly held up from those with wishful thinking.

I predict it stablizes at $50 around 30 days from now, and will not break $800 again, as it bumps up and down, on its way to reality, and thus the correction

The deep pockets better not let the price go that low, unless BTC takes a very huge correction! With the EDA in play, that could lead to a difficulty adjustment that is way too low. It would be a disaster if the difficulty had to be adjusted so low to make Bitcoin Cash profitable, that it would result in block times of 10 seconds or less, when all the miners hop back on.

10 second block times sound good to me might get the reward halving before the end of the year

10 second block times would result in lots of orphans, reorgs and empty blocks. It would make Bitcoin Cash network basically unusable until the network can sort out which chain is valid. It would also turn many miners off since many of their blocks would come back as orphans. Networks have limits. The most notable limit at this time is the speed of light. 10 second block times are only possible if you have a system where only a few nodes are actually making the blocks. It is not advisable in any proof of work system.