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togoshigekata
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February 18, 2019, 05:45:25 AM |
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As to the fork, was that a serious question?
I am serious, but doing it in a joking manner, Ive stated before that I would support chains for both POG and PODC, Rob stated he doesnt have the time to do both I also know why no one has forked, Im trying to lead you guys to that answer, its because Rob is the only blockchain developer here (other than MIP) Rob has the knowledge, time, passion and commitment to run a cryptocurrency, I challenge you guys to do blockchain development, will anyone step up? or will there just be more talking LOL I get it--if we don't want to launch a new coin, we should just remain silent?
That sounds a lot like bullying, just to avoid hearing what the community has to say. Love it, or leave it huh? How very tolerant. /s No, Im laying out the truth, the action that must be taken if you guys want change, we already know Robs decision and the votes of the masternodes (and whether you guys like it or not, not voting is also a vote) I challenge you guys to do a fork, and we can truly see which chain does better Other than more talking, what other actions can you guys take? Also, it would make more sense to fork Bitcoin, since that is it more tried-and-true.
I personally wouldn't support a fork of Bitcoin, but maybe others would?  = Im tired of all the complainers, all the negativity, all the criticism, We have a lot of talkers and barely any doers, its the same song being played, If PODC is so great, why arent you guys forking? Will anyone accept my challenge?  = Also, everyone is complaining about price, but how many of you are educating and onboarding new users? How many of you are recruiting new investors? How many of you are helping smooth out the starting process? = Will anyone step up to help create youtube tutorials about BiblePay? (How to buy BiblePay, How to mine BiblePay) Will anyone step up to help write articles about BiblePay? Will anyone step up to help run our Facebook? = How do we get more users? How do we get more investors? How do we get more doers? Is anyone thinking about this? Is anyone willing to work on this? = Older Post: = Who will step up? You can be paid for your work: http://wiki.biblepay.org/UnderstandingGovernance |
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I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES I HA(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ TABLES I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES
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sunk818
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February 18, 2019, 06:06:46 AM |
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I thought PoG would be really simple and it would really be a heavy marketing effort. But after using it for a bit, I don't feel it is ready. I can't really speak deeply to the code or the technical stuff behind. It seems to be mostly working with the odd issue with difficulty and offline transactions. Both, I understand are addressed in the most recent versions. The UI stuff I read is coming along as well. Just from a usability and training point of view, it is more difficult than I thought trying to explain the concepts to new people. Maybe it is because we have a technical crowd that wants to understand the stuff under the hood. Maybe for others, having tithe=1 (or rather a GUI checkbox) to do this is all that is needed. I hope once PoG is refined further, we can make an effort spread PoG and get more participants onboard. |
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nsummy
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February 18, 2019, 06:18:38 AM |
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On the topic of Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC), Its pretty obvious Rob is fully committed to trying out Proof of Giving (POG) over the next year, he even mentioned a while back these words: "Gridcoin can have that market" I support trying out Proof of Giving (POG), Rob has also mentioned this is just the starting version, there is still more work to do = Id advise anyone still really interested in PODC to check out and support Gridcoin:  CoinMarketCap: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/gridcoin/Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/Bt4YHxJReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/- CPU and GPU - 20+ Science Research Projects (Whitelist: https://gridcoin.us/Guides/whitelist.htm) - Pays crunchers every day to every few months (depending on staking amount) - Required to join Team Gridcoin NOTE: They are down 98%+ from their high, they got delisted from Poloneix, and they are having funding issues (I personally do not own any Gridcoin, but I used to read their Discord and Reddit for many months) = Theres also Foldingcoin and Curecoin, but note they both had extremely large premines and pay out their science rewards from a centralized entity = Also, I challenge anyone not interested in the current direction of BiblePay to fork the code  Why havent you guys grouped up and forked it yet?  I can assure you that regardless of any centralization Curecoin, foldingcoin, and Gridcoin have contributed a million times more to the betterment of mankind than biblepay. Its sad to read comments like "Gridcoin can have that market" And I would also remind you that there is another option besides forking biblepay, and that is for people to simply leave and put their time and effort into other promising projects. I see almost all constructive criticism in this thread rebuffed. |
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sunk818
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February 18, 2019, 06:19:19 AM |
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Is CPID still required to solo mine?
On purepool, it seems you still need CPID to pool mine.
I also tried to solo mine, but got an error about CPID.
I am not sure if the message is accurate or a block can be mined w/o CPID.
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capulo
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February 18, 2019, 06:41:16 AM |
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btw is it possible to publish realtime pog pool somewhere on web? i'm not sitting 24/7 on wallet  vahtis had a tool - https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/checkpool.php - but it seems to be offline for now. It showed min coin age, min coin value, and one other statistic. You could do this yourself too by taking the blockchain data. Its all there. Also, on pool.biblepay.org look under Reports > Difficulty History. You'll see PoG difficulty history. What exactly are you looking for and why would it help you to see something on the web? users with how many tithes and just for info, i wanna check if i tithed something and if i'm in next block etc |
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vahtis
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February 18, 2019, 07:06:48 AM |
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btw is it possible to publish realtime pog pool somewhere on web? i'm not sitting 24/7 on wallet vahtis had a tool - https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/checkpool.php - but it seems to be offline for now. It showed min coin age, min coin value, and one other statistic. You could do this yourself too by taking the blockchain data. Its all there. Also, on pool.biblepay.org look under Reports > Difficulty History. You'll see PoG difficulty history. What exactly are you looking for and why would it help you to see something on the web? users with how many tithes and just for info, i wanna check if i tithed something and if i'm in next block etc Tool is under rapid development. You can reach it at https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/index.php . This will not be final url. I will try to add info from pogpool command today. Information there is a bit misleading as it is contains also tithes from last reward block. At least it will show number of participants. |
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Rabinovitch
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BTCLife.global participant
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February 18, 2019, 07:27:57 AM |
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Well, it seems they award badges, but not any crypto. Also, as you can see from post #1, BBP is CPU-only by design, no GPU needed. It keeps things more fair. But in terms of fighting the cancer the more computational power the better... |
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capulo
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February 18, 2019, 08:13:43 AM |
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btw is it possible to publish realtime pog pool somewhere on web? i'm not sitting 24/7 on wallet vahtis had a tool - https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/checkpool.php - but it seems to be offline for now. It showed min coin age, min coin value, and one other statistic. You could do this yourself too by taking the blockchain data. Its all there. Also, on pool.biblepay.org look under Reports > Difficulty History. You'll see PoG difficulty history. What exactly are you looking for and why would it help you to see something on the web? users with how many tithes and just for info, i wanna check if i tithed something and if i'm in next block etc Tool is under rapid development. You can reach it at https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/index.php . This will not be final url. I will try to add info from pogpool command today. Information there is a bit misleading as it is contains also tithes from last reward block. At least it will show number of participants. for this i put comments to https://github.com/biblepay/biblepay/issues/69it would be nice to have stats without previous block |
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MIP
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February 18, 2019, 08:29:03 AM |
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btw is it possible to publish realtime pog pool somewhere on web? i'm not sitting 24/7 on wallet vahtis had a tool - https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/checkpool.php - but it seems to be offline for now. It showed min coin age, min coin value, and one other statistic. You could do this yourself too by taking the blockchain data. Its all there. Also, on pool.biblepay.org look under Reports > Difficulty History. You'll see PoG difficulty history. What exactly are you looking for and why would it help you to see something on the web? users with how many tithes and just for info, i wanna check if i tithed something and if i'm in next block etc Tool is under rapid development. You can reach it at https://viisastentori.fi/bbp_test/index.php . This will not be final url. I will try to add info from pogpool command today. Information there is a bit misleading as it is contains also tithes from last reward block. At least it will show number of participants. for this i put comments to https://github.com/biblepay/biblepay/issues/69it would be nice to have stats without previous block I will take a look on this one, thanks for the feedback. |
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MIP
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February 18, 2019, 01:24:23 PM |
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Does anybody know a CPU-Only mined coin that is giving a good profit to mine? I have some servers (CPU only) that are not profitable anymore with POBH (heat mining). Since POG was implemented, I'm only getting 110 bbp per block found.  Any tip is welcome. Thanks! This might change if PoDC is finally retired, as PoBH would take 20% of all mining rewards in that case (this is 1000 BBP per block if I am not mistaken). |
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bible_pay (OP)
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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
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February 18, 2019, 03:26:39 PM |
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On the topic of Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC), Its pretty obvious Rob is fully committed to trying out Proof of Giving (POG) over the next year, he even mentioned a while back these words: "Gridcoin can have that market" I support trying out Proof of Giving (POG), Rob has also mentioned this is just the starting version, there is still more work to do = Id advise anyone still really interested in PODC to check out and support Gridcoin: CoinMarketCap: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/gridcoin/Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/Bt4YHxJReddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/gridcoin/- CPU and GPU - 20+ Science Research Projects (Whitelist: https://gridcoin.us/Guides/whitelist.htm) - Pays crunchers every day to every few months (depending on staking amount) - Required to join Team Gridcoin NOTE: They are down 98%+ from their high, they got delisted from Poloneix, and they are having funding issues (I personally do not own any Gridcoin, but I used to read their Discord and Reddit for many months) = Theres also Foldingcoin and Curecoin, but note they both had extremely large premines and pay out their science rewards from a centralized entity = Also, I challenge anyone not interested in the current direction of BiblePay to fork the code Why havent you guys grouped up and forked it yet? I can assure you that regardless of any centralization Curecoin, foldingcoin, and Gridcoin have contributed a million times more to the betterment of mankind than biblepay. Its sad to read comments like "Gridcoin can have that market" And I would also remind you that there is another option besides forking biblepay, and that is for people to simply leave and put their time and effort into other promising projects. I see almost all constructive criticism in this thread rebuffed. I have nothing against Gridcoin and Foldingcoin, I'm sure they have contributed more to DC research than BiblePay, yes, and if you believe in nanotechnology advances and improving humanity through cures (faster than the rate of Mertons Law and Moores law) then everything will be fine for your offspring. However I take offense at the rest of your misguided and insensitive post, that BiblePay is orders of magnitude behind. While in reality we have contributed magnitudes more to the most important Kingdom: the souls of Orphans. The deflationary orphan environment alone makes us the most important, that is if you value your fellow man and if you find value in God's Kingdom. Then you go on to ask people to walk away (It reminds me of someones behavior who walked away from the live pool they were supposed to support). Its clear that you dont want to be a part of this community, so please stop interfering with our growth. Please do what makes you happy, otoh, if you want our prayer, Ill forgive you. |
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 03:29:00 PM |
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Great one for this forum and Discord! It's a microcosm of the Heart, Jesus said people will speak from their Heart. |
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 03:31:57 PM |
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As to the fork, was that a serious question?
I am serious, but doing it in a joking manner, Ive stated before that I would support chains for both POG and PODC, Rob stated he doesnt have the time to do both I also know why no one has forked, Im trying to lead you guys to that answer, its because Rob is the only blockchain developer here (other than MIP) Rob has the knowledge, time, passion and commitment to run a cryptocurrency, I challenge you guys to do blockchain development, will anyone step up? or will there just be more talking LOL I get it--if we don't want to launch a new coin, we should just remain silent?
That sounds a lot like bullying, just to avoid hearing what the community has to say. Love it, or leave it huh? How very tolerant. /s No, Im laying out the truth, the action that must be taken if you guys want change, we already know Robs decision and the votes of the masternodes (and whether you guys like it or not, not voting is also a vote) I challenge you guys to do a fork, and we can truly see which chain does better Other than more talking, what other actions can you guys take? Also, it would make more sense to fork Bitcoin, since that is it more tried-and-true.
I personally wouldn't support a fork of Bitcoin, but maybe others would? = Im tired of all the complainers, all the negativity, all the criticism, We have a lot of talkers and barely any doers, its the same song being played, If PODC is so great, why arent you guys forking? Will anyone accept my challenge? = Also, everyone is complaining about price, but how many of you are educating and onboarding new users? How many of you are recruiting new investors? How many of you are helping smooth out the starting process? = Will anyone step up to help create youtube tutorials about BiblePay? (How to buy BiblePay, How to mine BiblePay) Will anyone step up to help write articles about BiblePay? Will anyone step up to help run our Facebook? = How do we get more users? How do we get more investors? How do we get more doers? Is anyone thinking about this? Is anyone willing to work on this? = Older Post: = Who will step up? You can be paid for your work: http://wiki.biblepay.org/UnderstandingGovernanceThis is one of the best posts in all 1,200 pages. Thanks Togo. I'm becoming more passionate about this situation now. |
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sunk818
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February 18, 2019, 03:32:53 PM |
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Its clear that you dont want to be a part of this community, so please stop interfering with our growth. Please do what makes you happy, otoh, if you want our prayer, Ill forgive you.
Perhaps you see his post this way, but I see Togo trying to help others see the laziness in their complaints. All talk, no action. I think he's trying to light a fire under people more than anything else. Give Togo the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone has the same style you approach BiblePay with. That's called a diverse community. What has Togo done that you couldn't truly forgive? Jesus forgave us and paid the ultimate price even before we knew Him. |
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 03:35:40 PM |
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I thought PoG would be really simple and it would really be a heavy marketing effort. But after using it for a bit, I don't feel it is ready. I can't really speak deeply to the code or the technical stuff behind. It seems to be mostly working with the odd issue with difficulty and offline transactions. Both, I understand are addressed in the most recent versions. The UI stuff I read is coming along as well. Just from a usability and training point of view, it is more difficult than I thought trying to explain the concepts to new people. Maybe it is because we have a technical crowd that wants to understand the stuff under the hood. Maybe for others, having tithe=1 (or rather a GUI checkbox) to do this is all that is needed. I hope once PoG is refined further, we can make an effort spread PoG and get more participants onboard. Sun, please don't give up now. What if I tell you that we have a problem and we need yet another upgrade? Yes, there is a problem, and I'm making time now to announce it. It's clear to me POG is still not behaving properly and I know the reason why. Will you please help us straighten this out and will you passionate about it again once it's deployed properly? |
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 03:46:43 PM |
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Regarding the new users, they will come and the vaccuum will be filled. You have my word on this.
And, remember, I only brought out the 9mm pea-shooter with BiblePay. You have yet to see the cannon. I'm not revealing the cannon until September. And I'm not bluffing here.
What is our current user level? What is the expected increase? How will this be empirically valued to determine magnitude of success? When will the new topic be unveiled? What can you tell us about that now? What say will the community have in it or will it be more like PoG and developed then unveiled? Due to the heavy work load required today, I'm just going to answer this from a high level, but do know, this is not a guess, as I do have empirical evidence from the pool and the money supply for a very close approximation of what will happen with POG in Environment B. (I have electricity costs, server counts, gap fills after we went live, etc). We currently only have about 80 miners using the biblepay pool (which is a rough estimate of our current active user count). We had approx. 300 when we were bigger. The POG model costs the end user about $10 per month (roughly) as compared to the old model (costing the power user about $150 per month in server depreciation and electricity). In Environment B - if PODC is retired, at our current low price, we would see an increase from 50~ POG miners to approx. 750 within approx 30-90 days. This is because in crypto, the vacuum will be filled due to the free market economics (IE how easy it is to use POG without any specialized training and with commodity hardware). (I also have a mailing list of 5000 prior biblepay miners I will notify). The real question is (My question) is the impetus of growth placed on environment B, will it catch on and grow to 5000-10,000 users. Another words my hope is not simply to fill the void and exist, the hope is to actually grow. This would occur as the price appreciates and creates a self fulfilling growth environment with POG. (Price appreciation occurs as the new users buy some BBP and this invites more new users to POG because POG then supports payment for more machines). Regarding the September statement, it will not be unveiled until after MIP finishes the Dash rebase, the code is deployed and successful in prod, and the market fully apprises its price change; then I will speak about it - and as usual, speak about it as a pre-production change (if its a code change) before its coded. The only time we code something before we speak about it is when we are developing a proof of concept to fill in the blanks to speak about the concept. |
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 04:00:46 PM |
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This coin has tons of potential. But the why people don't step up?
1) If they disagree too heartily with the developer, they've been called FUD'ers, satanists or told to go elsewhere if they don't like it, all the while being told how democratic the coin is
2) When the development jumps around so much, it's frustrating to do work in documentation only to see the product change rapidly for seemingly no reason.
3) When non-technical users have issues, there are a lot of variables to check. Which leads to frustration especially when the official line is this-that or the other will be so easy a child or grandma can do it.
4) When the Dev says he has a plan (which in all fairness, he's gotten us this far and probably through a combination of skill and will, will continue unless he gets to the point where it no longer checks whatever box it checks now for him), but is vague about it, it doesn't really feel like a community coin. And taken with point 2), if it's going to change again (and ostensibly again and again), it's hard to say what one is stepping up for.
5) Projects run on trust. And while I don't begrudge the Dev for remaining anon or having a hundred (or whatnot) masternodes, that lack of disclosure hurts the coin nearly as much as some of the more complex issues.
So, if PoG becomes the full law of the land, and BBP can be satisfied with it for more than six or nine months, I'd wager people will once again start to step up. But the uncertainty and inconsistency is the main reason I feel this community has trouble attracting and keeping volunteers. If the price improves (for market reasons or manipulation or providence or just dumb luck) it will quiet much of the concern. BBP has come a long way in the year and a half run. It's helped numerous orphans, I do think it's very likely its changed more than a few lives for the better. It can do so much more in the future, it's just a hard road to get there and one that is at times frustrating.
This is a relatively fair assessment, its not overly harsh and I can deal with this, thanks West. On #1 - If they disagree with the developer they are called Fudders or Satanists. I strongly disagree with this #1. This is simply not true. The problem here is your perception of my reply. Look, We are in a cryptocurrency, so it is of paramount importance to get posts right, as it affects our investors perception- but for BiblePay, imho, its even more because it hurts our orphan count. That's why I'm so sensitive about Fud. You posted something 10 pages back about a misleading statement about pog (to hurt pogs perception rather than be a completely neutral with a biased constructive comment) you said "what is this the 3rd iteration or whatever" and some things alluding to that it had "problems" with the 40 block lookback, yet knew nothing about the effect of the DGW algorithm. It was correct for me to say this is FUD. The problem with the 2nd version of POG is just that the function is not returning the right value (even today) and its a technical thing, but it does not mean POG is flawed as a concept. So, this has been rampant with people like Slovakia attacking in the first 600 pages or so. I maintain that if a person gives me the benefit of the doubt, and is civil, and phrases what they do not know as a polite question, I cave and give the rest of the info and meet halfway. I admit flaws, in myself, in my code, in life in general, and meet halfway. I called people satanists who had mean spirited attitudes but remember the difference here, I apologized. (I don't remember you apologizing for attacking in ways that hurt us however). On #2 - We have big problems with our docs. I admit it. Jaap went on retirement, Luke resigned, we don't have a web developer, etc. Its something we need to fix. On #3 - This is a bona-fide problem because we constantly write cutting edge code that has RPC commands and no UI support for users. I think we are getting a leg up on this now that MIP is solving this problem as we speak. On #4 - I've come to the realization from the Holy Spirit that the project needs stability and that we should focus on adding Gospel features after our (POG?) is working and making it stable permanently. I still maintain the calling to be blessed by God is a platform that makes it useful for God's Kingdom (IE a tool for Christians, and an avenue to get saved). On #5 - This won't be like this forever - I feel that you will see transparency in my team and our bio in due time; we need to cover the status of The BiblePay Foundation first and this will be part of that endeavor. |
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GaryH
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February 18, 2019, 04:20:36 PM |
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Been running two mining rigs on Win10 for over a year mining coins via GPU miners and running Biblepay/BOINC on the cpus of both.
I've switched one of the rigs over to HiveOS and it just seems much easier to deal with. Unfortunately I've not found any tutorials as far as how to use Biblepay or BOINC on HiveOS. My rig that runs Biblepay wallet is still on Win10, but BOINC on the 2nd mining rig is offline for now.
Does anyone have a nice tutorial for mining Biblepay/BOINC on HiveOS?
Thanks!
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 04:32:02 PM |
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** Future Mandatory Upgrade Alert (for everyone Except Exchanges) **
All, it has come to my attention that POG has not been fixed. A bug has been discovered that affects the behavior of POG and we are working on it now.
I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience. I know we have a lot of upgrades in this community and this is not one that I planned for.
To make it easier on our exchanges, this upgrade is being completed in a way where only the users and sancs will need to upgrade. I am aiming for at least one quarter of stability before our next exchange mandatory upgrade.
Since it is extremely important that POG works properly in this first Phase, I am shooting for a Thursday mandatory upgrade deadline, and for the code to be ready within 24 hours.
More information will be posted as soon as the next version is ready.
Again -- sorry for the inconvenience.
Rob
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bible_pay (OP)
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February 18, 2019, 04:44:11 PM |
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Thanks for both your replies...
As far as my alleged FUD, PM me if you would when you feel that I'm portraying FUD as that is not my intent. I've given analysis that I feel is objective, I've laid out my dislike of PoG so all can account for that in my statements to mitigate any believed bias. It seems to me you clarify dissent as FUD and I also feel that when you make statements like "yet knew nothing about the effect of the DGW algorithm" you're jumping to conclusions and FUD'ing me (I knew/know the Dark Gravity Wave algorithm recalculates difficulty more than once a day, but my point was and still is, recalculating difficulty once a day for a even that occurs every 7 minutes doesn't make sense, thus DGW, but for a one a day event it needs to be AT LEAST that interval if not more).
Not sure if the case is if I've been unclear or you have not understood, and it really doesn't matter one way or the other (but I'll accept it was a lack of clarity which is why I shifted statements to get more to the heart of the issue, not because of a change in what I felt was the core issue). I'm here for the coin, I'm here for the orphans. I'm not anti-PoG because I hate the coin but because I continue to view it as not fulfilling the mission of the coin, much like you are pro-PoG because you feel it does help fulfill them.
We all have faults and areas we can improve. While looking at the coin's faults is not generally pleasant, it is needed to make informed decisions where they can be made and improvements for all those it affects.
So just to clarify as it seems you are still hanging on to some FUD here: POG does recalculate difficulty every block (just like DGW) - not once per day, but I maintain that it should not recalculate once per day because there is a single payment event per day. The payment event is a distinct event from difficulty recalculation and tithe acceptance. The important thing to understand is POG has a 40 block lookback for its barometer, while DGW has 28, and both algorithms recalculate difficulty every block (as they should). So there is nothing wrong with either algorithm - POG or DGW, and nothing wrong with using the diff algorithm in POG in prod (no flaws). There is no benefit to changing it - and it is an IT decision based partially on performance, which I care about, not on peoples "opinions" who are not blockchain programmers. On PODC vs POG: I see the pros and cons, and based on some of the cons I still imho personally veer towards POG while we weigh out the new user baseline results. I would still like to see an increase in user count (in contrast to stagnation) play out. If it doesn't play out in environment B over 6 months then maybe my opinion will change. We will have a democratic vote and discuss these pros & cons in great detail in that forum thread then. I don't want to use too much of my bandwidth on this right now since we will have a thread for it within 14 days. Til then lets see if we can deploy POG correctly and see how it behaves in the low emission environment. |
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