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voxelot
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August 28, 2013, 08:04:37 AM |
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That said, if anyone out there is willing to front 3 mil, Dan our engineer has the skills to design a chip. Anyone?  Dan sounds interesting  Looks like i'll be veriloging in my underwearz alone |
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vulgartrendkill
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August 28, 2013, 12:59:47 PM |
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It makes me feel sad that Barntech et all have put in all this hardwork and effort, just for you to try and make a quick buck off the back of their grafting, AND post the fact they are doing so on Barntech's thread.
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guyver
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August 28, 2013, 01:03:13 PM |
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It makes me feel sad that Barntech et all have put in all this hardwork and effort, just for you to try and make a quick buck off the back of their grafting, AND post the fact they are doing so on Barntech's thread.
It makes me feel sad that Barntech et all have put in all this hardwork and effort, just for you to try and make a quick buck off the back of their grafting, AND post the fact they are doing so on Barntech's thread.
if no one buys them, ill still keep them. just ran into some financial problems. and need to release some cash. that's all. life goes on |
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AussieHash
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August 28, 2013, 01:06:51 PM |
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I think the op should consider a KnC-like stance of not permitting changes of ownership. With 3000 chips sold, it could become a big problem if more competing auctions start springing up. just ran into some financial problems.
Well that what happens when you reserve 19 blades |
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Its About Sharing
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
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August 28, 2013, 01:13:48 PM |
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It makes me feel sad that Barntech et all have put in all this hardwork and effort, just for you to try and make a quick buck off the back of their grafting, AND post the fact they are doing so on Barntech's thread.
It makes me feel sad that Barntech et all have put in all this hardwork and effort, just for you to try and make a quick buck off the back of their grafting, AND post the fact they are doing so on Barntech's thread.
if no one buys them, ill still keep them. just ran into some financial problems. and need to release some cash. that's all. life goes on Don't you think you should at least wait till Barntech's auction ends? It has already been stated they are not really making much money on the process and you decide to auction 10 off while his auction is still running? And even if you pull it now, you probably repress the prices in his auction. This just seems like a lack of respect to the very guy who was going to build units for you. |
BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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vulgartrendkill
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August 28, 2013, 01:16:04 PM |
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I think the op should consider a KnC-like stance of not permitting changes of ownership. With 3000 chips sold, it could become a big problem if more competing auctions start springing up. just ran into some financial problems.
Well that what happens when you reserve 19 blades Thats what I was thinking.... 10 boards? thats at least 160gh of hashing power and 3000 dollars. |
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Barntech (OP)
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August 28, 2013, 02:31:40 PM |
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Hey guys. Ok i'm going to break things up into separate posts in the interest of keeping thing clear and separate. Firstly, regarding our auction, i have been crunching the numbers and we have decided to release another 16 8-chip Drillbit Boards to auction. We had initially set aside a certain amount for ourselves, but things are looking tight and the extra money may be necessary for the coming stages of the process. Soon we will need to be buying all the parts for the boards, getting the boards themselves made, and getting the boards assembled. Better to have a buffer zone of a bit of extra money than a few extra miners; we can't pay our manufacturing expenses with miners. (wouldn't it be nice if we could) I wasn't sure what the fairer approach was between adding these to the auction that already exists, or making a separate auction, and in the end decided that adding them to the current one is the better way to go. This means that more of the people who have already bid on that auction will end up getting miners. So there are 32 miners up for grabs there. There are 15 hours left to go. If anyone else is keen, please hop over there and place a bid if you like. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281996.0Once all the boards are done, we will be reopening orders of Drillbit Thumbs. It will be in a general format of x amount at the set rate of $99 and the final x amount at auction. I will update all the details before i open up the orders again. Almost there guys. |
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vulgartrendkill
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August 28, 2013, 03:29:07 PM |
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hey there guys, Just been reading on a bitfury related thread that the initial (august run) of boards are not hashing at the advertised rate. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=250249.0It says that once firmware is sorted out that they should then hash at correct rate. Just thought I`d mention as it may have a bearing on the chips we get? Thanks |
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vulgartrendkill
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August 28, 2013, 03:30:12 PM |
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Hey guys. Ok i'm going to break things up into separate posts in the interest of keeping thing clear and separate. Firstly, regarding our auction, i have been crunching the numbers and we have decided to release another 16 8-chip Drillbit Boards to auction. We had initially set aside a certain amount for ourselves, but things are looking tight and the extra money may be necessary for the coming stages of the process. Soon we will need to be buying all the parts for the boards, getting the boards themselves made, and getting the boards assembled. Better to have a buffer zone of a bit of extra money than a few extra miners; we can't pay our manufacturing expenses with miners. (wouldn't it be nice if we could) I wasn't sure what the fairer approach was between adding these to the auction that already exists, or making a separate auction, and in the end decided that adding them to the current one is the better way to go. This means that more of the people who have already bid on that auction will end up getting miners. So there are 32 miners up for grabs there. There are 15 hours left to go. If anyone else is keen, please hop over there and place a bid if you like. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281996.0Once all the boards are done, we will be reopening orders of Drillbit Thumbs. It will be in a general format of x amount at the set rate of $99 and the final x amount at auction. I will update all the details before i open up the orders again. Almost there guys. Keep up the great work. If if had more spare moolah I`d definately buy another board but my cupboard is empty  |
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Barntech (OP)
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August 28, 2013, 03:56:46 PM |
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Which brings me to the topic of reselling Drillbit equipment.
A member of our group recently put up an auction for Drillbit Boards. I have asked them to take it down and they have graciously agreed.
The main issue here right now is that we have not yet ourselves completed our orders for this group buy. We are almost there but not quite yet. There is still an auction running for the final 32 Drillbit Boards, and beyond that, there will be further orders for Drillbit Thumbs and potentially some extra raw chips available. Until we have finalized everything on our end, i am requesting that people please don't put up any sales or auctions of our stuff. I will announce when we are locked in with all our orders.
What happens then is an interesting conundrum. I must say i have found the general trend of people buying pre-orders for stuff and then selling them on at a profit having never even received them an odd and kind of unpleasant one. It happened so intensely with BFL pre-orders being sold for up to 10 times the original prices, and a fair bit with Avalon stuff too. Personally i find it a weird vibe. That said, it is a free market, and if you buy something, then in theory it is yours to sell, or is it? Granted, if you have the thing in your hand, then of course, go sell it, do whatever you like with it, it's yours, but if what you have bought is a future promise of getting a device that hasn't even been built yet, then i believe it becomes a bit of a grey area. I'm not saying i really have an answer to this, just putting it out there.
I think one of the biggest issues i have with this kind of thing is that this equipment is built for mining bitcoin, it is built for bitcoin enthusiasts who want to own it, have it and use it to do what it is made for, it is not built for middle-people to buy, never actually hold and use, and sell on for a profit. Perhaps that's all a bit naive and idealistic, but that's how i see it, that's why i'm doing it, to help people be a part of the bitcoin network (which i truly believe in), not just tangentially profit from it. But hey, one of the major draw cards of being a bitcoin miner is that you can make money from it, so i realize there's a bit of a contradiction there. I guess the difference is how you make the money.
So many of us have been burnt by the overall ponzi-schemeness of the whole thing that it would make me really sad to see the Drillbit stuff go down the same road.
But... we are a community here, and we have all chucked in to make this happen so i'd like to put it to everyone and see what people think about resale policies. As i see it there are two main ways it could go: (all of this of course being before the units are delivered, once you've got them, you can do what you like)
1. No resales whatsoever. If you want a refund, write to us and you will get it. We will resell it. (note, there will be a point of no return when we actually have to spend the money and will no longer be able to refund it, i will announce when this is happening)
2. Total free for all. Everyone can buy, sell and auction their preorders as they choose.
What do you guys reckon? Interested to see what your thoughts are.
Barntech
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console_cowboy
Member
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Activity: 98
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August 28, 2013, 04:34:22 PM |
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Considering how community oriented you guys at Barntech are, I'd really go with not allowing resale of the chips/boards. If someone wants to play the mining hardware speculation and resell game, there are plenty of other companies. I've been burned with other mining companies in the past, and went with you guys due to your apparent love of the design. It is also the reason I am hopeful you will have future projects as well!
Thanks again for such a cool hobby style board.
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Stinky_Pete
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August 28, 2013, 04:44:29 PM |
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But... we are a community here, and we have all chucked in to make this happen so i'd like to put it to everyone and see what people think about resale policies. As i see it there are two main ways it could go: (all of this of course being before the units are delivered, once you've got them, you can do what you like)
1. No resales whatsoever. If you want a refund, write to us and you will get it. We will resell it. (note, there will be a point of no return when we actually have to spend the money and will no longer be able to refund it, i will announce when this is happening)
2. Total free for all. Everyone can buy, sell and auction their preorders as they choose.
What do you guys reckon? Interested to see what your thoughts are.
Barntech
Option 1 (but I have no idea how you would police it) |
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forevernoob
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August 28, 2013, 04:51:54 PM |
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I don't think you should allow people to resell a pre order.
For the simple reason that it causes you guys more administrative work. (change of address, people spamming this thread etc..)
However you shouldn't stop people from selling the miner when they have it in hand. (Is that even possible to enforce?)
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lajz99
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August 28, 2013, 04:54:30 PM |
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I would vote to not allow any sales or name changes. If they want to try to sell and just ship when they get the product that's their issue but it shouldn't put any burden on you.
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nexus99
Legendary
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Activity: 910
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August 28, 2013, 04:58:14 PM |
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My opinion is that whoever preorders from you is the person that should pay you and that is who the equipment is delivered to. If they want to sell that equipment after that's all up to them of course... its like any other item in the world. I don't think anyone should be contacting you to reassign a preorder that they have resold.
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rob143
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Activity: 138
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August 28, 2013, 05:30:51 PM |
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I think option 1 is the best possible way to handle it. I agree that the whole BFL pre-oder thing and then selling pre-orders (nothing) on Ebay at a really jacked up profit give everyone a bad feeling. the same kind of thing is happening with the Klondike board being sold for over $500 on Ebay when original cost was 189 or 250.
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Its About Sharing
Legendary
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Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
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August 28, 2013, 06:33:28 PM |
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I vote for option 1 as well. I think the idea of making this into a community, especially after all the stuff happening around, would be a great idea. Lead by example. My screen name is a constant reminder to me...
That said, if someone is really hard up for cash, perhaps they can sell back to you and you resell them. That is up for the leaders discretion. But overall, going in the direction of option 1 sounds great.
Its about sharing
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BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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voxelot
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August 28, 2013, 07:21:47 PM |
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Let him resell anything he wants.. who is to say how anybody is to spend or not spend their money... maybe that individual really needs the money.. now that being said it should be all of our tasks to post in any auction that seems miss leading to any other member of this forum. For example in the case where the individual here was trying to start an auction for boards at 25% higher than the price he paid.
I am still surprised that the boards have not even had the component parts ordered yet there is all this buzz over them... stay grounded.. stay reasonable.. and you will have no problems.
I have yet to see this work here in the short two months I've been active on these forums.. but there must be a first for everything.
Regards
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