Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2016, 03:06:12 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 ... 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 [73] 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 ... 205 »
  Print  
Author Topic: bitHopper: Python Pool Hopper Proxy  (Read 333206 times)
backburn
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


★Trash&Burn [TBC/TXB]★


View Profile
July 28, 2011, 11:54:17 PM
 #1441

Im a loyal hopper, does that count? Wink

Anyhow I dont see how you could delay/alter any of the public non-user specific api feed without also delaying it for loyal users as you seem to mention here.


It went from client header based detection to just delayed for everyone, just like Deepbit does.

This way it is an incentive to mine contiguously, as you will miss out on really short blocks and get less time to mine on moderately short blocks. This reduces the "hopping bonus" somewhat.

The improper configuration/coding of many hopping clients led to this decision. Prior to recent issues,  we did not care about hopping. But when a massive amount of clients are greedily bouncing back and forth between servers and dog-piling on pools when a block is found; something had to be done.  I cant idly sit back when hoppers flood in during a fresh block affecting or miners.  I guess you could say, you are a victim of your own success.

Don't forget, you're hurting the very people who make it possible for the pools good luck, profitability and the ability for you to hop in the first place.
1481382372
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481382372

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481382372
Reply with quote  #2

1481382372
Report to moderator
1481382372
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481382372

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481382372
Reply with quote  #2

1481382372
Report to moderator
The forum strives to allow free discussion of any ideas. All policies are built around this principle. This doesn't mean you can post garbage, though: posts should actually contain ideas, and these ideas should be argued reasonably.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Clipse
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
July 28, 2011, 11:54:46 PM
 #1442

Good for you. I didn't intend to attack you, you know?

Yeh sorry I seem to have had a brain fart posting there in all defensive mode Wink

For some reason I thought more users would have setup a seperate method of pulling API's but I guess I assumed the unassumable Grin

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:08:01 AM
 #1443

But when a massive amount of clients are greedily bouncing back and forth between servers and dog-piling on pools when a block is found; something had to be done.
The right thing to do is not some stupid API delay which will be obsolete soonish anyways - just change to a real and fair payout system!

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
c00w
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:10:00 AM
 #1444

Huh. We shouldn't be cross submitting shares. However if our connections lag out we leave your pool. And then come back when it delags. So giving us bad connections causes a lot of wounded thrashing.

Cross submitting shares shouldn't happen though... I'll check.

As always though using a proper algorithm would be nice instead of messing with the hoppers.

1HEmzeuVEKxBQkEenysV1yM8oAddQ4o2TX
bb
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:14:41 AM
 #1445

We will stay proportional, but we will not encourage pool hopping.

This makes no sense.
joulesbeef
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


moOo


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:18:14 AM
 #1446

so backburn you have any thoughts as a pool operator to our other convo? about jumping on pools that have a very long block to help them finish it, instead of jumping to our back up pools when no one has found a block in a while?


that and figuring out our share problem... would that help reduce the hate on your site?

mooo for rent
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:20:18 AM
 #1447

Don't forget, you're hurting the very people who make it possible for the pools good luck, profitability and the ability for you to hop in the first place.

Nope, YOU do hurt them by setting up a hoppable pool.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
Clipse
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:21:21 AM
 #1448

But when a massive amount of clients are greedily bouncing back and forth between servers and dog-piling on pools when a block is found; something had to be done.
The right thing to do is not some stupid API delay which will be obsolete soonish anyways - just change to a real and fair payout system!

I assume they still want to give "legit" users the chance of excessive pay during quick rounds but not for hopping users.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
Clipse
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:23:02 AM
 #1449

Huh. We shouldn't be cross submitting shares. However if our connections lag out we leave your pool. And then come back when it delags. So giving us bad connections causes a lot of wounded thrashing.

Cross submitting shares shouldn't happen though... I'll check.

As always though using a proper algorithm would be nice instead of messing with the hoppers.

Ive only noticed the high stales (false submits?) for bitclockers, so I highly doubt its the hopper at fault since the whole lot of other sites would have had similar instances.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
gnaget
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 12:27:59 AM
 #1450

Ive only noticed the high stales (false submits?) for bitclockers, so I highly doubt its the hopper at fault since the whole lot of other sites would have had similar instances.


I've suspected this is the issues causing the higher than normal stale rate across the board.  I'm getting 2-4% stales on every site, and I've noticed that the vast majority come when the proxy switches pools.  I think it is more pronounced for bitclockers because of his anti-hopping tactics, which I assume are to blame for the connection issues I was complaining about earlier.  So, when I would lag out, move away then move back, the shares being submitted were probably for the last pool
paraipan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924


Firstbits: 1pirata


View Profile WWW
July 29, 2011, 12:59:50 AM
 #1451

Ive only noticed the high stales (false submits?) for bitclockers, so I highly doubt its the hopper at fault since the whole lot of other sites would have had similar instances.

I've suspected this is the issues causing the higher than normal stale rate across the board.  I'm getting 2-4% stales on every site, and I've noticed that the vast majority come when the proxy switches pools.  I think it is more pronounced for bitclockers because of his anti-hopping tactics, which I assume are to blame for the connection issues I was complaining about earlier.  So, when I would lag out, move away then move back, the shares being submitted were probably for the last pool

+1 seeing same thing here

BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
joulesbeef
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


moOo


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:04:44 AM
 #1452

Quote
I'm getting 2-4% stales on every site, and I've noticed that the vast majority come when the proxy switches pools.

me too. far more than I used to get not hopping. I just thought it was some of the pains of hopping.

mooo for rent
owowo
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:15:41 AM
 #1453

If you spend your life only worrying about squeezing every ounce of profit, you'll end up like this guy:


I assume everyone gets the reference

rule of acquisicion no. 10 "Greed is eternal. " ;o)
backburn
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


★Trash&Burn [TBC/TXB]★


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:17:41 AM
 #1454

Huh. We shouldn't be cross submitting shares. However if our connections lag out we leave your pool. And then come back when it delags. So giving us bad connections causes a lot of wounded thrashing.

Cross submitting shares shouldn't happen though... I'll check.

As always though using a proper algorithm would be nice instead of messing with the hoppers.

The high stales reports i received from users using this proxy we're getting unknown-work for over 90% of their stales.

We never broke pool hopping clients, however, our API spit bad data to known hopping clients for a little over a week until it was removed. We moved to a delay because a delay period is much more sensible and cannot be evaded.

Other than the stats delay; habitual hoppers (and tbh they gotta hop a bunch) are flagged by a script to get lowest priority through our load balancer. Plenty fair, why should hoppers get work ahead of or to the detriment of someone that has been "in line" before them.

Hoppers want to maximize their income at the detriment of other users. So we obviously cant support it, a mildly random stats delay ensures that you can take far less advantage.

The right thing to do is not some stupid API delay which will be obsolete soonish anyways - just change to a real and fair payout system!

Sorry, proportional is the only fair mining method. A share is a share, no matter when it is submitted.
TBH, I really don't mind hopping that much. But as i said before, when it starts wreaking havoc on the pools you're hopping on the problem must be addressed. Hoppers are hundreds of thousands of work requests all hopping together to the same pool; might as well be a "DDoS".

Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:24:31 AM
 #1455

Sorry, proportional is the only fair mining method. A share is a share, no matter when it is submitted.
Why do you pay them differently then?

Anyways, at least you give a bit of challenge...

By the way, real pool DDoSing is done differently, but I won't give any hints here, because THAT would really hurt your pool I guess.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
backburn
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


★Trash&Burn [TBC/TXB]★


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:27:43 AM
 #1456

Sorry, proportional is the only fair mining method. A share is a share, no matter when it is submitted.
Why do you pay them differently then?

Anyways, at least you give a bit of challenge...

By the way, real pool DDoSing is done differently, but I won't give any hints here, because THAT would really hurt your pool I guess.

Paid differently? Not sure i follow, every share is worth the same. The other payout methods pay people differently....

Obviously its not a ddos, but it fits the definition spare the ill intent. Hence the quotes.
macboy80
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 102


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:28:57 AM
 #1457

@backburn: I also would like to hear what you say to hopping in on a long block to help out. I wouldn't mind "giving back" in a time of need.
gnaget
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:29:04 AM
 #1458

Hoppers are hundreds of thousands of work requests all hopping together to the same pool; might as well be a "DDoS".

Makes sense, if the infrastructure can't handle the amount of hashing power we bring to the table, then it only makes sense for him to mitigate it.
gnaget
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:31:26 AM
 #1459

@backburn: I also would like to hear what you say to hopping in on a long block to help out. I wouldn't mind "giving back" in a time of need.

I'd also like to get your opinion.  I've brought up the question in the triplemining pool thread, since they are currently on a 7 million share block from hell
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


View Profile
July 29, 2011, 01:54:05 AM
 #1460

Sorry, proportional is the only fair mining method. A share is a share, no matter when it is submitted.
Why do you pay them differently then?
Paid differently? Not sure i follow, every share is worth the same. The other payout methods pay people differently....
No, if every share would be worth the same, you'd have PPS.

You pay a different amount for each share - and some people choose to only mine when you pay more. You obviously don't like that and/or can't handle it (other pools have FAR higher hash rate than 10x all the hoppers together). That's your issue.

By the way, with a scored system you'd still pay every share...

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
Pages: « 1 ... 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 [73] 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 ... 205 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!