BAMT - Easy persistent USB key based linux for dedicated miners/mining farms

[tnkflx]

Is it possible to generate/have permanent Munin stats in BAMT?

[1714221445]

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[lodcrappo]

The new kernel network part have been optimized. On new AND old network cards you should be able to see an improvement of the work that is been done in time X. Compare that time X with the actual 2.6.32 kernel that is been used and you should see the improvement. Not only the network optimization would add more speed. There are other parts that will add more speed and stability.
I checked what version the 11.6 driver supports. It added support for 2.6.39 and 3.0.
With the actual 3.0.21 (or as actual als possible from the debian packages) you should get the most out of the combination of 11.6 driver + 2.4 sdk.

And this would maybe also fix the problems on 64bit!

Would be nice when you check it out shortly.

Thanks a lot!

I think this is BS. Improvement in network speed ? LOL.  

2.6.32 is MUCH more stable than 3.0 kernel and for mining, stability is essential and tested software is crucial. 3.0 is shaky ground.

If you don't like this policy then feel free to make your own distro and share with us and also maintain it while working for almost nothing

Kernel 3.0 for mining ? You must be seriously be joking ...

Well... I am going to guess that the 'truth' lies somewhere between "v3 kernel will give you megahash and network magic" and "v3 kernel will eat your babies".

The best action would be to do some testing.  Unfortunately we are already at a crossroads and the thought of possibly changing kernel adds yet another layer of complexity.

My offer is this:

If someone would like to explore v3 kernel (or anything else) that may be useful, I will help you set up a debian live enviroment to build bamt images.  This is not trivial, you must have a good grasp of linux basics if that's going to work out, but it is not a huge task.  You may then of course test, use, distribute, basically do whatever you want with your variation, but reporting back anything good or bad is much appreciated.

In an ideal world, someone will volunteer to maintain the BAMT OS image(s) entirely.  Building Linuxes is not my area of expertise and probably not the best use of the time I have to work on BAMT.  There is much coding I would like to do, and maintaining the general portion of the OS image takes a lot of time away from that.  If someone (or someones) feel like maintaining both a 32 and 64 image, maybe we don't have to choose.  I just cannot maintain multiple images myself.

[lodcrappo]

....
In an ideal world, someone will volunteer to maintain the BAMT OS image(s) entirely.  Building Linuxes is not my area of expertise and probably not the best use of the time I have to work on BAMT.  There is much coding I would like to do, and maintaining the general portion of the OS image takes a lot of time away from that.  If someone (or someones) feel like maintaining both a 32 and 64 image, maybe we don't have to choose.  I just cannot maintain multiple images myself.

I will add this as well, a question that has come up before:

Does BAMT even need to be an OS?

The purpose of distributing it as a bootable image is simply to make things as easy and fast as possible.
However, if there is some alternate way to achieve that part of the goal, the BAMT tools do not require their own special environment by any means, they can be used on any linux, probably even other unix-ish things with very little work.  Maybe even Windows if you really wanted to, its 90% perl or python.

Open to all suggestions.  Currently this OS issue is holding up lots of good tools that don't care about the OS at all.

[tnkflx]

I wouldn't mind building OS images for BAMT... If you can quickly guide me on a Debian live image... I haven't done that before.

[lodcrappo]

I wouldn't mind building OS images for BAMT... If you can quickly guide me on a Debian live image... I haven't done that before.

Its not a quick or simple thing to do, unfortunately.  For the time investment to be worth it to both of us, I think you really need to be committed to providing your image to others and supporting it.  So please consider carefully.  I cannot spend time setting individuals up with their own private build systems where it doesn't benefit everyone else.

If that doesn't scare you away, start here:

http://live-manual.debian.net/manual-2.x/html/live-manual.en.html

Setup a build environment, build a couple test images and get a feel for how it works.  Maybe you won't need my help until you have the image ready to go and it just needs the BAMT software added (This would be ideal).

[DeathAndTaxes]

I will add this as well, a question that has come up before:

Does BAMT even need to be an OS?

I think so.  The reason why I use BAMT is because have you seen the # of steps to get everything working right on Linux?  Brutal.  It can be done but BAMT is "flash a drive", plug it in, and up and mining after editing a couple of text files via SSH.  If I ever get serious about remote config it will be even easier/faster.

If BAMT became a collection of programs then it would have dependency issues.  So it becomes grab a linux distro, but not this x,y, or z, and not b after version 1.23 or c before version 3.27.  Some people say d works but some people say it doesn't.  Then make sure you have pkg blah blah installed, it has to be version after 1.28 but watch out you can't use that with kernel 2.9 or later.  Using version 1.27 or earlier causes a critical bug but only on some distros.  Then install SDK & drivers, (insert some cryptic note about incompatibilities).   Install BAMT pkg, check the readme for a list of known incompatibilities, and if it isn't there you are on your own.  Make sure to export display, make sure xhost is running, track down bizare error messages on google.  The install BAMT package and pray nothing else goes wrong. 


"BAMT ... up in running in 3-5 days after teaching yourself Linux troubleshooting .... hopefully."  

I think a lot of the "magic" will be gone.  Hopefully we can get some Linux image guru to take that aspect off your shoulders.  I know enough to know it isn't me.

[max in montreal]

+1

[lodcrappo]

I will add this as well, a question that has come up before:

Does BAMT even need to be an OS?

I think so.  The reason why I use BAMT is because have you seen the # of steps to get everything working right on Linux?  Brutal.  It can be done but BAMT is "flash a drive", plug it in, and up and mining after editing a couple of text files via SSH.  If I ever get serious about remote config it will be even easier/faster.

If BAMT became a collection of programs then it would have dependency issues.  So it becomes grab a linux distro, but not this x,y, or z, and not b after version 1.23 or c before version 3.27.  Some people say d works but some people say it doesn't.  Then make sure you have pkg blah blah installed, it has to be version after 1.28 but watch out you can't use that with kernel 2.9 or later.  Using version 1.27 or earlier causes a critical bug but only on some distros.  Then install SDK & drivers, (insert some cryptic note about incompatibilities).   Install BAMT pkg, check the readme for a list of known incompatibilities, and if it isn't there you are on your own.  Make sure to export display, make sure xhost is running, track down bizare error messages on google.  The install BAMT package and pray nothing else goes wrong. 


"BAMT ... up in running in 3-5 days after teaching yourself Linux troubleshooting .... hopefully."  

I think a lot of the "magic" will be gone.  Hopefully we can get some Linux image guru to take that aspect off your shoulders.  I know enough to know it isn't me.

yeah i know what you are saying.  I would not consider dropping the OS component of BAMT unless there was an alternative that is just as good for getting boxes deployed asap (and keeping them maintained, etc).   


as a "for instance".. thinking out loud a bit here..   the Debian folks maintain a collection of live images that are in many way similar to BAMT (and they are generated using the Debian Live tools, just like BAMT is).  These images are available to download right from the debian site http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current-live/amd64/ any time and are maintained by people who know what they are doing.   They come in a variety of image types, which might help people with broken motherboards be able to boot.

If we were to say "BAMT is a set of software designed to drop on top of ->>> That specific image  right there"....  it might work out.  Maybe.   Rather than supporting a big variety of crap and versions, we're back to a single image, single set of packages, everything same version, yadda yadda.  But its maintained by somebody else.. 3x bonus!

there are downsides of course.  There would have to be some extra step to combine the BAMT with the Debian Live image.  Probably as easy as dropping a tarball or maybe just writing a live-rw partition next to the debian live part.  Once that was done, you could read it back in and have a ready to rock image for future though.

the debian live images all have way more stuff than you need for mining in them, but so does 0.4 (due to a mistake on my part long ago!).  only a handful of folks ever bitched about that anyway.

I think it is worth consideration.. the more i think about it, serious consideration.  Could provide essentially same ease of use, hell if somebody wanted to stick the bamt part and the debian part together and host it somewhere, the same ease of use.  And I don't have to maintain an OS image.

comment always welcome

[bulanula]

I will add this as well, a question that has come up before:

Does BAMT even need to be an OS?

I think so.  The reason why I use BAMT is because have you seen the # of steps to get everything working right on Linux?  Brutal.  It can be done but BAMT is "flash a drive", plug it in, and up and mining after editing a couple of text files via SSH.  If I ever get serious about remote config it will be even easier/faster.

If BAMT became a collection of programs then it would have dependency issues.  So it becomes grab a linux distro, but not this x,y, or z, and not b after version 1.23 or c before version 3.27.  Some people say d works but some people say it doesn't.  Then make sure you have pkg blah blah installed, it has to be version after 1.28 but watch out you can't use that with kernel 2.9 or later.  Using version 1.27 or earlier causes a critical bug but only on some distros.  Then install SDK & drivers, (insert some cryptic note about incompatibilities).   Install BAMT pkg, check the readme for a list of known incompatibilities, and if it isn't there you are on your own.  Make sure to export display, make sure xhost is running, track down bizare error messages on google.  The install BAMT package and pray nothing else goes wrong. 


"BAMT ... up in running in 3-5 days after teaching yourself Linux troubleshooting .... hopefully."  

I think a lot of the "magic" will be gone.  Hopefully we can get some Linux image guru to take that aspect off your shoulders.  I know enough to know it isn't me.

yeah i know what you are saying.  I would not consider dropping the OS component of BAMT unless there was an alternative that is just as good for getting boxes deployed asap (and keeping them maintained, etc).   


as a "for instance".. thinking out loud a bit here..   the Debian folks maintain a collection of live images that are in many way similar to BAMT (and they are generated using the Debian Live tools, just like BAMT is).  These images are available to download right from the debian site http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current-live/amd64/ any time and are maintained by people who know what they are doing.   They come in a variety of image types, which might help people with broken motherboards be able to boot.

If we were to say "BAMT is a set of software designed to drop on top of ->>> That specific image  right there"....  it might work out.  Maybe.   Rather than supporting a big variety of crap and versions, we're back to a single image, single set of packages, everything same version, yadda yadda.  But its maintained by somebody else.. 3x bonus!

there are downsides of course.  There would have to be some extra step to combine the BAMT with the Debian Live image.  Probably as easy as dropping a tarball or maybe just writing a live-rw partition next to the debian live part.  Once that was done, you could read it back in and have a ready to rock image for future though.

the debian live images all have way more stuff than you need for mining in them, but so does 0.4 (due to a mistake on my part long ago!).  only a handful of folks ever bitched about that anyway.

I think it is worth consideration.. the more i think about it, serious consideration.  Could provide essentially same ease of use, hell if somebody wanted to stick the bamt part and the debian part together and host it somewhere, the same ease of use.  And I don't have to maintain an OS image.

comment always welcome

This is MUSIC to my ears. Makes it much easier for people with 5870s to use SDK 2.1 etc. and ones with 6XXX to use 2.4 etc.

[xanadu]

1) /opt/bamt/fixer has to be run multiple times (once for each update)

for me i just run the command one time and keep pressing 1 to uupdate, and eventually alll get done.

this is correct.  I don't know where the idea you need to run it multiple times comes from, but it is not true.
run it once and hit enter or 1 until it's done, you will have all updates.

I think that it is an interface issue, once you run the initial update the screen doesn't prompt you to continue applying updates, nor does it show you an clean exit path, the wording is a ambiguous.  It took me a while to realize that I had to hit 1 repeatedly until all of the updates were applied, then the tool exits and stats "Your BAMT is up to date."

[lodcrappo]

1) /opt/bamt/fixer has to be run multiple times (once for each update)

for me i just run the command one time and keep pressing 1 to uupdate, and eventually alll get done.

this is correct.  I don't know where the idea you need to run it multiple times comes from, but it is not true.
run it once and hit enter or 1 until it's done, you will have all updates.

I think that it is an interface issue, once you run the initial update the screen doesn't prompt you to continue applying updates, nor does it show you an clean exit path, the wording is a ambiguous.  It took me a while to realize that I had to hit 1 repeatedly until all of the updates were applied, then the tool exits and stats "Your BAMT is up to date."

Actions
-------
1) Apply fix                
2) Display files in fix     
3) Skip for now             
4) Skip forever             
5) Exit now, make no changes


Choose an action (1 - 5) [default 1] 

thats ambiguous?

I can change it easy enough..  what would be a better way to present the things you can do?

[xanadu]

1) /opt/bamt/fixer has to be run multiple times (once for each update)

for me i just run the command one time and keep pressing 1 to uupdate, and eventually alll get done.

this is correct.  I don't know where the idea you need to run it multiple times comes from, but it is not true.
run it once and hit enter or 1 until it's done, you will have all updates.

I think that it is an interface issue, once you run the initial update the screen doesn't prompt you to continue applying updates, nor does it show you an clean exit path, the wording is a ambiguous.  It took me a while to realize that I had to hit 1 repeatedly until all of the updates were applied, then the tool exits and stats "Your BAMT is up to date."

Actions
-------
1) Apply fix                
2) Display files in fix     
3) Skip for now             
4) Skip forever             
5) Exit now, make no changes


Choose an action (1 - 5) [default 1] 

thats ambiguous?

I can change it easy enough..  what would be a better way to present the things you can do?

First and foremost, thank you for your work on this tool!  It has saved me hours of tinkering around with linuxcoin just to get a few bare-bone miner rigs up and running.

There just isn't any feedback to the user as the fixes are applied, screens full of information scroll past and then you are dropped back into the same menu system you started from.

Perhaps adding a dialog showing something like:
"Current fixes applied X ... Y ... Z"
"Un-applied fixes X ... Y ... Z"

Perhaps change option (5): "Exit now, fix level XYZ, X fixes remain"

That or just modify the script to run them all sequentially?
Add an option "Apply all fixes"?

This will all be moot with .5, since all of the updates will be rolled up, right?     Automatic fan control is the final feature that I am really missing in the current BAMT implementation, I am looking forward to trying it out when it is ready.

[lodcrappo]

1) /opt/bamt/fixer has to be run multiple times (once for each update)

for me i just run the command one time and keep pressing 1 to uupdate, and eventually alll get done.

this is correct.  I don't know where the idea you need to run it multiple times comes from, but it is not true.
run it once and hit enter or 1 until it's done, you will have all updates.

I think that it is an interface issue, once you run the initial update the screen doesn't prompt you to continue applying updates, nor does it show you an clean exit path, the wording is a ambiguous.  It took me a while to realize that I had to hit 1 repeatedly until all of the updates were applied, then the tool exits and stats "Your BAMT is up to date."

Actions
-------
1) Apply fix                
2) Display files in fix     
3) Skip for now             
4) Skip forever             
5) Exit now, make no changes


Choose an action (1 - 5) [default 1] 

thats ambiguous?

I can change it easy enough..  what would be a better way to present the things you can do?

First and foremost, thank you for your work on this tool!  It has saved me hours of tinkering around with linuxcoin just to get a few bare-bone miner rigs up and running.

There just isn't any feedback to the user as the fixes are applied, screens full of information scroll past and then you are dropped back into the same menu system you started from.

Perhaps adding a dialog showing something like:
"Current fixes applied X ... Y ... Z"
"Un-applied fixes X ... Y ... Z"

Perhaps change option (5): "Exit now, fix level XYZ, X fixes remain"

That or just modify the script to run them all sequentially?
Add an option "Apply all fixes"?

This will all be moot with .5, since all of the updates will be rolled up, right?     Automatic fan control is the final feature that I am really missing in the current BAMT implementation, I am looking forward to trying it out when it is ready.

Ok, I think I see what you are saying.

fwiw, each individual fix is displayed, in the style:

New fix: bamt64_fix_6a.tar


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

another experimental, optional offering.

this one demonstrates a new high performance monitoring technique that I think
I will develope further and eventually use to replace gpumon/mgpumon.

the current client is basic, but can gather more data than gpumon and does it
much, much faster.  system load is very minimal.

so.. restart mining, then run:  /opt/bamt/pcontrol   
watch and be amazed. ctrl-c to exit.  

phoenix only

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Actions
-------
1) Apply fix                
2) Display files in fix     
3) Skip for now             
4) Skip forever             
5) Exit now, make no changes


Choose an action (1 - 5) [default 1] 

The intent was that one would see the fix number, read the description since not all fixes are something you would want, some may cause your machine to do all sorts of things including interrupting your mining, etc..  and then choose what to do using the menu.   

After on fix completes, it just loops... another  New fix: some number, another description, another menu.

Now...  I am going to guess that you didn't pay much attention to either the fix number or the descriptions if you didn't notice they were changing...  that I think is something to worry about.
These messages are important, often they are the only notice I give as to the presence of a new
feature or significant change, and as I mentioned this text warns the user about things about to happen
that they might not like at all.

So.....  Yeah it needs to be changed somehow to make this critical info "pop" I guess.  Also it was never envisioned there would be 30 some fixes to apply to an image, for most cases its 1 (except for the first time you run it on your first download of 0.4b) and as you mentioned that will be less of an issue if the new image ever comes out.  Eventually it will build up again though.

I'll think about it..  good points, thanks.

[jamesg]

Hi lodcrappo,

Could you make an updated for the current release of BAMT to move cgminer to the latest version? This would be worth 10 btc to me....

Thanks,
gigavps

[gnar1ta$]

Hi lodcrappo,

Could you make an updated for the current release of BAMT to move cgminer to the latest version? This would be worth 10 btc to me....

Thanks,
gigavps

Anything over 2.1.2 has not been at all stable for me, which is one reason I am moving more of my rigs back to BAMT with 2.1.2  cgminer.

[jamesg]

Hi lodcrappo,

Could you make an updated for the current release of BAMT to move cgminer to the latest version? This would be worth 10 btc to me....

Thanks,
gigavps

Anything over 2.1.2 has not been at all stable for me, which is one reason I am moving more of my rigs back to BAMT with 2.1.2  cgminer.

Does 2.1.2 support butterfly labs?

[gnar1ta$]

Does 2.1.2 support butterfly labs?

Not until 2.2.0.  But I think it has to be compiled with the bitforce switch to be functional anyway.  You should be able to install it on an image then read that to other USB's though.

[lodcrappo]

Hi lodcrappo,

Could you make an updated for the current release of BAMT to move cgminer to the latest version? This would be worth 10 btc to me....

Thanks,
gigavps

you can put any version of cgminer you'd like on bamt, we use 100% stock bins, its not like phoenix where we have our own bamt changes to the miner.

however, i am reluctant to push out fix beyond what we have now (2.1.2) until cgminer gets stable.  there have been so many bugs in their recent releases that I think it would cause too much trouble.

if you aren't comfortable making your own cgminer, i could make a build of current cgminer for you, its not a big deal and you're a long time bamt supporter so don't mind doing that, but i don't think putting it the main line fixes is good idea.

[jamesg]

Hi lodcrappo,

Could you make an updated for the current release of BAMT to move cgminer to the latest version? This would be worth 10 btc to me....

Thanks,
gigavps

you can put any version of cgminer you'd like on bamt, we use 100% stock bins, its not like phoenix where we have our own bamt changes to the miner.

however, i am reluctant to push out fix beyond what we have now (2.1.2) until cgminer gets stable.  there have been so many bugs in their recent releases that I think it would cause too much trouble.

if you aren't comfortable making your own cgminer, i could make a build of current cgminer for you, its not a big deal and you're a long time bamt supporter so don't mind doing that, but i don't think putting it the main line fixes is good idea.

Understood. I'll figure out what I need with the BFL singles arrive.

[lodcrappo]

Hi lodcrappo,

Could you make an updated for the current release of BAMT to move cgminer to the latest version? This would be worth 10 btc to me....

Thanks,
gigavps

you can put any version of cgminer you'd like on bamt, we use 100% stock bins, its not like phoenix where we have our own bamt changes to the miner.

however, i am reluctant to push out fix beyond what we have now (2.1.2) until cgminer gets stable.  there have been so many bugs in their recent releases that I think it would cause too much trouble.

if you aren't comfortable making your own cgminer, i could make a build of current cgminer for you, its not a big deal and you're a long time bamt supporter so don't mind doing that, but i don't think putting it the main line fixes is good idea.

Understood. I'll figure out what I need with the BFL singles arrive.

let us know when they do.  i am watching those devices with much interest but waiting to see if they ever ship.

BAMT will support these types of devices when they exist, no doubt.