[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[Stuartuk]

What is it with these serious questions dudes?  This is the ActM thread ffs!  Who wants bitch slapped first?

freakin LOLz

[zumzero]

Anyway, where is that feline lover boy bumble?  Get him back in here I tell ya!

[Stuartuk]

Anyway, where is that feline lover boy bumble?  Get him back in here I tell ya!

He's waitin in for DHL. There is a miner coming his way but the only thing is, he's not sure if it's arriving this week, next week, the week after......you get the idea.

[Stuartuk]

I hate to be a downer, but wouldn't rising fiat/btc price actually hurt our hardware sales?

You can purchase our miners in BTC or FIAT.

Example1

So BTC rises to 10kUSD, you can buy a 1k miner for 1k and mine 10BTC to make 100kUSD = 99k USD profit.

Example2

BTC falls to 100USD, you can buy a 1k miner for 1k and mine 10BTC to make 1k USD = breakeven


BTC value exaggerated to make the point clearer.



So the more BTC appreciates the more FIAT you make mining so the more customers we will have eager to mine and to buy our machines.

Obviously if BTC went to 10k we would raise the price of a 1k miner, to around 80k perhaps, so that the profit would be a more reasonable = 20kUSD for the customer.

EDIT - in relation to revenue per machine - it's simple, we might get fewer BTC per machine sold but the BTC is worth more so in FIAT terms nothing changes. If we convert the BTC we get to FIAT to purchase more chips from eASIC we will have the same amount of FIAT due to the higher BTC/USD exchange rate. The same goes for divs = will equal the same in FIAT and it's FIAT that will buy you the fast cars and loose women.

[ColdCrypto]

I always viewed the sales side of actm as a huge risk and waste of time. Engineering something for the consumer is an expesive and time costly task with little reward. The only reason it worked for AM is because they HAD to sell hashrate in order to be able to deploy the remainder of their chips while staying under a 51% threat. Many asic producers are around now. The fear of anyone capturing a portion of the network that size no longer exists. Mining is a race to the bottom by those who own chip ip . There is no room for for a consumer device. imo actm should focus on mounting our easic chips and cheaply as possible and bring hashrate online as quickly as possible. ... unfortunately presales have us locked into making those damn customer modules I guess

[zumzero]

Also consider in Example 2 that today's bitcoin value is $100, but tomorrow is likely to be $10,000 and this is why global power consumption for bitcoin mining is nine times that the value of coins mined.  People know that the important thing right now is accumulating as many coins as possible no matter the cost.  Mining will be profitable all the way up to 2140 and the difficulty won't ever stop that being the case.  It's in the design.

[Stuartuk]

I always viewed the sales side of actm as a huge risk and waste of time. Engineering something for the consumer is an expesive and time costly task with little reward. The only reason it worked for AM is because they HAD to sell hashrate in order to be able to deploy the remainder of their chips while staying under a 51% threat. Many asic producers are around now. The fear of anyone capturing a portion of the network that size no longer exists. Mining is a race to the bottom by those who own chip ip . There is no room for for a consumer device. imo actm should focus on mounting our easic chips and cheaply as possible and bring hashrate online as quickly as possible. ... unfortunately presales have us locked into making those damn customer modules I guess

+1

We don't have massive pre-orders so don't worry too much on that front we can get them made and shipped next to no time.

They did us a service in raising early funds. I think Ken might be holding our mining machine price high right now just because of what you say. We will make our money down the farm.

We is farmers now boy.

[Ozymandias]

I'm also curious what is going to come first, tradeable shares, or significant news (for better or worse though I'm leaning heavily towards the better side). Not quite sure how the market would/could react to news when there is no medium in which to transfer shares.

[kslaughter]

Colored Coins Developer Update

[ffssixtynine]

For those with money stuck in Bitfunder/WeExchange:

Finally have an update.

After trying and trying, and talking to sipa in #bitcoin-dev:

[13:34] <Ukyo> hey guys. I got an issues with bitcoind. a. wallet size causes it to take 5~10 miuntes to load. b. as soon as send is issued, it maxes cpu/ram until restarted, and takes about 10~20 minutes until it announces to the network
[13:34] <Ukyo> and then rpc times out after that
[13:34] <sipa> how many keys/transactions?
[13:34] <Ukyo> over ten thousand easily
[13:35] <sipa> there have been some improvements to that recently in head
[13:36] <Ukyo> so this is kind of a known issue for the size? i.e. bitcoind isnt really meant for the size and its something being worked on?
[13:37] <sipa> it wasn't designed for it, no

I wanted to say thanks real quick to Warren on irc who is a Litecoin dev who is helping me to straighten this out and make sure there is no problem in the future.

As it stands, I have started initiating manual withdraws. It takes about 20 to 30 minutes between each one as mentioned in the above irc quote so please bare with me
for a bit. We are going through tickets trying to get things caught up in proper order for fairness. If you get your withdraw, please post and let people know.

I will continue to work on this 24/7 excluding unintentional sleeps as I have been for the last week now. I hope to get all withdraws caught up very shortly.

Thank you for your patience and understand,
Ukyo

[MilkyWayMasta]

Colored Coins Developer Update

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEE!

[stenkross]

Colored Coins Developer Update

Cool.
Have you considered Mastercoin also?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0

Here's killerstorm explaining key differences between colored coins project vs mastercoin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3487339#msg3487339

I have no opinion on which option to choose, I just want to make sure you are aware that there are multiple project running in paralell.

[jimmy3dita]

Guys I'm lost. What should I do -now- to pull my stocks from Bitfunder? And what is going to happen after they have been pulled out?

Is there any official announcement, like the tender from AMC of months ago?

[somestranger]

Huh I thought Mastercoin was some sort of new blockchain just for stocks etc and that colored coins were a layer on top of Bitcoion. It seems I'm wrong on both accounts. Mastercoin seems like the best option since it would use the robustness of the Bitcoin blockchain to its advantage. It will be interesting to see which one ends up being adopted by the community at large... either protocol would be a huge development.

[somestranger]

Guys I'm lost. What should I do -now- to pull my stocks from Bitfunder? And what is going to happen after they have been pulled out?

Is there any official announcement, like the tender from AMC of months ago?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.0

[MilkyWayMasta]

Huh I thought Mastercoin was some sort of new blockchain just for stocks etc and that colored coins were a layer on top of Bitcoion. It seems I'm wrong on both accounts. Mastercoin seems like the best option since it would use the robustness of the Bitcoin blockchain to its advantage. It will be interesting to see which one ends up being adopted by the community at large... either protocol would be a huge development.

Colored Coins would use the bitcoin blockchain as well.

[somestranger]

Huh I thought Mastercoin was some sort of new blockchain just for stocks etc and that colored coins were a layer on top of Bitcoion. It seems I'm wrong on both accounts. Mastercoin seems like the best option since it would use the robustness of the Bitcoin blockchain to its advantage. It will be interesting to see which one ends up being adopted by the community at large... either protocol would be a huge development.

Colored Coins would use the bitcoin blockchain as well.

Not necessarily according to this CC dev.

And while we are here, there is an important difference between Mastercoin's distributed exchange and p2ptrade which is implemented for colored coins:

Mastercoin uses blockchain to store orders, while p2ptrade doesn't. p2ptrade can work with any communication medium.

Our first version simply uses a HTTP service for communication. This doesn't look like a distributed system, does it?

[julz]

in: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3492434#msg3492434
kslaughter said:

...
At this time all shareholders should follow the procedure for transferring shares to AMC-TENDER.
...

So what is 'the procedure' ??
Just transfer.. or send an email as well?

[knybe]

in: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3492434#msg3492434
kslaughter said:

...
At this time all shareholders should follow the procedure for transferring shares to AMC-TENDER.
...

So what is 'the procedure' ??
Just transfer.. or send an email as well?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg3493271#msg3493271

[MilkyWayMasta]

Huh I thought Mastercoin was some sort of new blockchain just for stocks etc and that colored coins were a layer on top of Bitcoion. It seems I'm wrong on both accounts. Mastercoin seems like the best option since it would use the robustness of the Bitcoin blockchain to its advantage. It will be interesting to see which one ends up being adopted by the community at large... either protocol would be a huge development.

Colored Coins would use the bitcoin blockchain as well.

Not necessarily according to this CC dev.

And while we are here, there is an important difference between Mastercoin's distributed exchange and p2ptrade which is implemented for colored coins:

Mastercoin uses blockchain to store orders, while p2ptrade doesn't. p2ptrade can work with any communication medium.

Our first version simply uses a HTTP service for communication. This doesn't look like a distributed system, does it?

Colored Coin would begin from a Genesis Transaction so lets say I deposit 1 BTC to what I say is the Genesis address and I offer 1000 shares, each share would consist of 0.001 Bitcoin and the Colored Coin Client would track the Colored Coins by following where the Colored Coin came from. But you're right because the trading of Colored Coins could be done off the blockchain. A question I have is if you can buy a fraction of a share? Lets say in that example above, am I allowed to split my share into 10 by selling 0.00001 off of that Bitcoin which comes from the Genesis transaction?