[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[ishkur]

Wow almost 391mill

Lol

[LorenzoMoney]

What do you think of this: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7454/seasonic-to-power-hashfast-bitcoin-mining-equipment

QUOTED FROM THE LINK ABOVE:
Seasonic and HashFast Technologies announced that they have signed an agreement for Seasonic to produce power supplies for HashFast’s Bitcoin mining systems.

Seasonic is one of the oldest and most reputable manufacturers of high performance PC power supply units, held in high regard by enthusiasts. Today, the company channels their products via their own retail brand but their designs can also be found behind many other brand names, as they also cooperate with many other companies as an OEM of high performance PSUs. HashFast on the other hand is a new company which has just been founded recently and is based in San Jose, California. HashFast currently plans to focus on the manufacture of Bitcoin ASICs.
 
HashFast is particularly excited about the Seasonic partnership, given the PSU company's reputation in the industry. In order to accommodate what appears to be standard ATX form factor Seasonic PSUs, the rack mounted HashFast Sierra mining boxes now feature a 4U chassis. HashFast currently offers two mining systems: the tower form factor Baby Jet with a single ASIC, starts at $2250, while the multi-ASIC, rack-mountable Sierra starts at $6300. Both HashFast mining engines feature, aside from Seasonic power supplies of currently unknown specifications, liquid cooling solutions. They are expected to be available before Christmas.
 
Although the higher efficiency of a power supply hardly makes sense in most applications, it is more than a logical choice for these high power Bitcoin miners, which will operate continuously under heavy stress. The savings from the cost of energy alone more than justify HashFast's choice, while quality is of paramount importance under such conditions. It's also a good move for Seasonic as seeking adjacent markets for its PSUs can help to somewhat reduce its dependence on PCs alone for sales.
 
It is interesting to note that a virtual currency, Bitcoin, despite the many hiccups and the extremely volatile value, became popular enough to allow for the founding of companies solely focused on the creation of "super computers", designed specifically for mining. High monetary investments on a virtual currency however are extremely risky; individuals should tread lightly, lest this whole thing becomes a 21st century "gold rush". Apart from the fact that the virtual currency is extremely volatile and might lose its value at any time, the generation of a Bitcoin depends on the hashing power of your system(s) against the total hashing power available globally. As ASICs are being introduced into the hashing power of the community, not only they will spell the doom of common home computers but the output of every ASIC will diminish as more similar systems are entering the community.
 
HashFast is one of a few companies founded this year and will be providing Bitcoin mining ASICs, therefore we expect hundreds if not thousands of such systems to be introduced into the Bitcoin community by the end of 2014. It remains to be seen if the investment of thousands of dollars on such systems is a viable economic investment, or if the massive processing power that will be introduced will make the generation of a Bitcoin a tedious, time consuming process, ultimately without a reasonable economic benefit; or, worse, result to a loss. HashFast does offer a Miner Protection Program for a large fee (nearly double the base cost of their mining hardware) to attempt to offset the risk, but it's still a risk.
 
To put things in perspective, the hash rate in January of 2013 was around 23.25 THash/sec, with a difficulty of 3,249,550. The current hash rate for the Bitcoin network is now 267,731,249, with a hash rate of 1916.5 THash/sec. Put into ASIC mining rates, the much-delayed Butterfly Jalapeno ASIC rated at roughly 5 GHash/sec would have generated around 23.5 BTC/month in January; with a Bitcoin value of $13-$21, that works out to $300-$450 per month. Today that same 5 GHash/sec hardware generates around 0.30 BTC/month, or $50-$70 depending on what Bitcoin price you want to look at for the past ten days. In terms of efficiency, the Jalapeno is still generating more money in BTC than it uses in power (45W means a power cost of $3.25 per month at $0.10 per kWh), but with the network difficulty skyrocketing we're only a few months away from the break even point for BFL's Jalapeno, and other ASICs will inevitably follow suit. (The HashFast 28nm ASIC appears to be ~10X as efficient as the BFL Jalapeno.)
Source: Seasonic USA

I'm looking at their thread now, I can see 9 serious problem (no hashing) threads started in the last two days, there could be more but not sure from my phone.

Just found the next page button. Another 17 threads started in the last 48hours reporting big problems. I suggest you take a look Bargraphics rather than laugh it off.

You guys are too wrapped up in your play world to see the big picture, they released >1.5PH into the wild. It doesn't matter if the mining newbies have issues because they don't know how to access the web panel, install new firmware, plug in loose cables, or otherwise trivial tasks.

I suggest you learn a little bit from this experience, it's better to ship buggy product than delay a month or two while you work the kinks out.

I'll enjoy watching the hashrate from my jupiters. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1FscNBYzd5CqDzUVQ9YapLQNtLbswkM4NL

Yes. Let's not be delusional. Where do you think the +40% difficulty increases are coming from? Our best bet for slowing the TNH% is for companies to outright fail. Meaning: "Sorry guys, we can't afford our chips after all." CoinTerra recently delayed their tapeout, that's the next best thing. HashFast is a joke. Not only are their chips offering a non-competitive (For Q4) 8$/GH, but now they're late. No wonder the icedrill shareholders are looking into a lawsuit (Complimentary: "Always bet on ICE!")! This is the world we currently live in. It's competitive. But some will weather it. ActM COULD be one of them.

Timing is everything. 

[gjpminingco]

well you did that post about that info but that info is OLD news to me since I did the Interview with Hashfast a few weeks ago and they told me about this, and by you posting it here is nothing new to me

[finlof]

well you did that post about that info but that info is OLD news to me since I did the Interview with Hashfast a few weeks ago and they told me about this, and by you posting it here is nothing new to me

guess you have all the answers.  tell us all the stuff you learned in your interview with Ken.  stuff we dont already all know cause it's OLD news.

[somestranger]

What do you think of this: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7454/seasonic-to-power-hashfast-bitcoin-mining-equipment

That just means HashFast is going to pocket more money... it's not like they'll be passing on the savings to customers.

[gjpminingco]

Actually they are they are about to release Onsite Hosting plans so that when the miner comes off the line it goes across the hall to hosting and is online within a few min and ready for configuration of your desired pool

[somestranger]

Actually they are they are about to release Onsite Hosting plans so that when the miner comes off the line it goes across the hall to hosting and is online within a few min and ready for configuration of your desired pool

HashFast or ActiveMining?

[drawingthesun]

Actually they are they are about to release Onsite Hosting plans so that when the miner comes off the line it goes across the hall to hosting and is online within a few min and ready for configuration of your desired pool

HashFast or ActiveMining?

HashFast.

[minerpart]

better....bashing

You can condense your long post to the above accusations. I did not say we would be 'better' whatever you mean by that, than knc and I did not 'bash' them either. You shamelessly missquote...again.

I stated some facts, reported what's going on on their website. I also said we could benefit from a lack of confidence in their product. It is very straight forward but you seem to think its wrong to mention the direct competition and what effect it will have on us which is...odd. I get the feeling you just like picking arguments and proving yourself right.

Keep quoting yourself, it makes you look really humble.

[zumzero]

Neither of you seem to understand the complex possibilities of new innovative technology.

There has been a sudden upsurge in fault reports, this is not 'normal'. They are not all firmware related. Posters are saying quality of product has deteriorated since the shipping of order 500+.

So maybe you get the idea now? If you show no interest in what others are telling you because you think you know it all already you just live in your own little bubble of 'I am right'. Well I decided to have a look at the site and found out some facts. You two just spouted something from yesterday that you think will be true tomorrow. The world changes every second of every day, try keeping up.

hey mr. pot-calling-kettle-black (aka minerpart) - are you seriously telling everyone that you believe that ACtM is and/or will be better than KNC?  without any current proof to back that up other than your feeling?  seems bargraphics is proof that they produce a pretty nice product, and have produced a lot of it (with total network over 3 PH/s now, we know that all that added hash isnt only coming from BFL, ASICMiner, and bitfury).  that isnt to say that ACtM cant and wont produce a good, timely product.  even IF they do it doesnt make KNC's product any less good, and doesnt take away from the fact that they are adding/have added a shit-ton of that total hash (1.5 PH/s according to bargraphics, though that number seems high right now, maybe thats the total amt they have sold) to the network before ACtM even put out 1 MH/s.  maybe KNC will fall by the wayside (like ASICMiner seems to have) and ACtM will be right there to pick up all the willing buyers.  let's hope so for everyone's sake that has $ invested in ACtM.

so to recap - KNC current has a product that is shipping and a lot of people are mining with.  ACtM does not.  bashing other companies (KNC, ASICMiner, BFL, Avalon, etc) that have actually put out a product and are PROFITABLE will NOT make ACtM make and release their product any sooner.  if you feel you must resort to bashing other companies because you dont have enough positive info to cheer about with ACtM, then you need to take that up with Ken.

disclaimer:

believe me when i say that i hope all this works out for anyone who has $ invested.  i dont want people to lose money, whether i like them or not.  but if you lose because you put a bunch of money into something that you dont really know about, i'm not going to feel sorry for you when you complain that things didnt happen according to original plan or didnt go how you wanted.

EDIT - and in case you didnt know, the difficulty jump that just happpened was almost a 50% increase.
EDIT #2 - apparently I am an ACtM investor again with a grand total of 8 shares (thanks to someone on cryptostocks.com for filling some of my low bid amt).

This is a fabricated piece of nonsense!  You have an awful habit of putting words into people's mouths and spouting absolute untruths.  If you are going to insist on posting in this thread as a way of massaging your ego, at least have the decency to read other people's posts and report what see with some sense of accuracy.  And for the love of God would you stop quoting yourself, highlighting random phrases in bold and use CAPITAL LETTERS at the beginning of your sentences!

Anyone who thinks that KnC are not having major issues with their products is deluding themselves.  Right now on the forum the first 8 pages (10 posts per page) are filled with complaints about faulty boards, unexpected shut downs, unit failures, dead units, disabled cores, firmware update issues, locked 0 GH rate, core errors and dead dies.

The vast majority of these posts across the first 14 pages of the KnC thread are reporting units that do not hash at the advertised rate.  So people are not getting value for money.

If that was ActM and I read the forum, I was sell my shares and run for the hills.  I don't care if any of you justify selling dodgy electrical equipment just to make a profit but I expect more than that from Ken.

Bargraphics wouldn't be saying how happy he was with his Jupiters if his post was on the first page of that forum, that is for sure.

No, we need to learn from other companies mistakes and even if we delay shipment, we need reliable products that do what they say on the tin.  That way people come back to buy more, words spreads and we all make a killing. This is no smash & grab but clearly our competitors see it that way.  So let's build a reputation and create a feedback loop of success.

[minerpart]

+1

[minerpart]

A lot of the posters on here lately are obsessed with share price. They want us to ship anything - working and tested or not - just so the share price goes up and they can feel better/sell.

But you hit the nail on the head zero, we are in this for the long haul, so is Ken, and we need to build a reputation for good products from the off. If that means shipping two weeks later that is the best thing for the customers, the company and the long term share price growth. Too many 'get rich quick' investors on here.

[zumzero]

Also, if Ken and team have to spend valuable time fixing hundreds of unhappy customers complaints that impacts on future business.

Think of the KnC resources being used to sort out all these issues.  The first 40 customer hardware issues on the KnC forum are dated no earlier than yesterday.

If this keeps up imagine what it'll be like in two weeks time.

Christ, we should be popping the champers!


EDIT:  I have just realised that I was only reading the HARDWARE section of KnC's website.  Have a read in the SOFTWARE section for more of the same.  It's a bloodbath.

[Stuartuk]

Thats a very observant point actually. There is a new BFL vid up on their site that shows their operation. Its a bit of a joke, people are being moved around in the background to make it look like they have lots of staff.

I counted carefully, 7 in the office on PCs answering complaints on email, 6 staff at assembly benches and 7 staff in dispatch. Now 4 of the dispatch staff are obviously girlfriends roped in for the day and given BFL T-shirts to put on. The two guys you see are the real dispatch team. So all in all 15 staff with close to 50% of them either responding to complaints - or surfing the web checking their email! THAT is a major drain on resources. And 6 staff on assembly?! Not exactly a conveyorbelt of production.

[zumzero]

+1

[Stuartuk]

Sorry but anyone who uses the term 'yall' is instantly going on my iggy list. We have to keep to certain standards. Bye fintoff.

[zumzero]

continue to twist, delude, skew, etc.  if it makes you feel good, why not?  how many EXACTLY does ACtM have "working on it very hard" other than Ken?  do we have any video?  do we have a production line?  do we have ________________ (anything?)

wow you guys must really have a lot invested to continue to act like ACtM has its shit together and everyone is just shit.  how many pages of posts does ACtM have about how it's products are working/not working?  what will ACtM's hardware/software forum be like in 2 weeks time?  continue to bash other companies that are providing actual products, continue to skew the facts and words of others, and continue to be blind to your amazing double standards.  guess yall should have diversified your investment(s) so you wouldnt be so desperate to NEED ACtM to live up to all expectations.  as an 8-share ACtM holder, i am now actually invested in seeing ACtM do well.  so i hope they do, just not as much as yall hope they do.

oh and i quote myself cause yall arent getting it the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc time.  i still am optimistic that yall will see reason.

disclaimers:

you know what someone without anything real to say does?  they point out half truths and twist others words and try to pass them on as truth.

EDIT - removed 1 '

Stop your lies.  No-one said ActM 'has it's shit together' and no-one is implying that.  The point being made here is that we should do everything we can to ensure we 'do get our shit together', and that includes learning from other companies mistakes.

Boy, you do have a way with the American English language, yall.  

[Stuartuk]

RE- iggy rules

Sarcastic use of the term is an exception! 

[drawingthesun]

I have a question, if Ken or someone with the answer could please reply I would be very happy!

Does Ken pay for the first batch after the prototypes are delivered? Or is everything paid for and Ken just has to say yes after the prototypes are received to get the production going?

[drawingthesun]

It seems that the lunatic who tried to game the prices by buying @.001 got back on his medication & immediately put in a sell order @.0009.

Crumbs, how could someone game the price? I am genuinely curious. If there are ~600,000 shares for 0.001 BTC that would mean manipulation is impossible until the giant sell wall is gone.