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Author Topic: Hacking The KNC Firmware: Overclocking  (Read 143188 times)
tolip_wen
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July 06, 2014, 12:38:24 PM
 #1141

I noticed the BBB 'seems/looks to me' maxed out.

Bandaids considered (some tried) to date,
nix lighttpd (WIMP interface is overated anyways if not needing VRM info)
run cgminer without screen
Might gain a single % @ CPU

OC the bone 10%.
Source for clock proggy
https://github.com/mindbeat/bclock

I think it is for BB White not BB Black it's old code.
Must verify values in bclock.h with BBB ARM datasheet (not done yet)

I compiled and ran it, set it to 1104000Hz, got all excited, looked at output from
'cat /sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq' and lost excitement.

/sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq could be stale and it worked, no idea.

Looked at load with top and still maxed out.
Did [spi1] and cgminer just gobble it up???

I kinda feel like slacking/playing so I may just measure BBB clock remotely with SDR dongle and see if it changes.
(evil semi-tangent monster strikes again)

I thought I was golden but honestly did not test long enough.
After reboot and for longer period default BBB clock approaches same percieved results.

I have no idea if the ASICs are gobbling up the MIPS.
My hunch is output from cgminer and the parade of not goodness scrolling by.
It would not be my first useless tangent BTW.
At some  point I'll throw a scope on the ribbon signals and look, no promise when though.

Lots has changed with the ASIC so we got the fun of discovery to anticipate!

Welp, thats where I'm at.

Still workin on cooling, spacing pitstops for highest UPTIME though as it takes a lot of GH/s improvement to improve on just lettin it run to begin with.

Thx folks for sharing early tests and results re: cooling

YMMV
Smiley

P.S. To compile 'bclock' on the Nep:
I used the first part of the build script for bfgminer to install transient build environment on BBB.
Bfgminer build script is in README.ASIC in bfg source tree.
Had to change makefile to 'CC = arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
BEWARE
'Status' webpage will show miner stopped. it is running, just a web page SNAFU due to build environment.
Your hashrate will drop ~20% during install of build environment, 10 minutes or so.
N'Joy Smiley

EDIT
SDR dongle ineffective to deduce CPU clock, possibly due to AC fans and nekkid ASIC PCBs nearby.
I have measured ASIC clocks with this method reliably in the past FWIW.
I am leaving it up for a while, it looks like more, temps have moved up a tad. Not linear 10% improvement.

EDIT # 2
I wouldn't swear to it but I think KnC already OC'd the BBB by exactly 10% in the kernel.
I definately found 1.104 GHz with the antenna next to CPU and did not see 1GHz.
The program to manipulate the stock CPU freqs is missing and the files I looked at may just be related unremoved remnants.

I also had a bit of excitement, the smoke escaped from a 2kW PSU (probably operator error)
resistance across DC outputs now 0 Ohm so more than a fuse Sad...
One spare PSU just paid for itself.

Too much fun! Smiley

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July 07, 2014, 08:23:36 AM
 #1142

I'm now ready with modifying all my boxes (see pictures previous posts), and running on 500 Mhz (at periods shows 3.5 Ths but most of the time 3.4).

But I noticed something odd with the temps. Now that the metal plate is removed and each VRM has it's own heatsink, the very strange thing is that the right-side VRM's (1 to 4) are 10 full degrees hotter than the left-side (this is on all 5 boxes).  There is no significant difference in Volt, Amp and Watt.... so for some reason the temp between VRM 4 and 5 are 10 degrees apart... which is very strange as those two are just in front of main Fan ??
Anyone has an idea ?


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July 07, 2014, 12:26:14 PM
 #1143

I believe is the difference in your construction appliance.

If you had a thermal camera, you could see it.

Or measure (beam measure?) the heatsink and the vrm temps of all of them.
If you see great difference between vrm/heatsink , then there is bad thermal contact.

I am sick of KNC, need so much babysitting.

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July 07, 2014, 01:19:49 PM
 #1144

I believe is the difference in your construction appliance.

If you had a thermal camera, you could see it.

Or measure (beam measure?) the heatsink and the vrm temps of all of them.
If you see great difference between vrm/heatsink , then there is bad thermal contact.

I am sick of KNC, need so much babysitting.


Have you watched my photo's ?   all VRM's are more or less modified with Heatsinks in the same way. especially #4 and 5 are just infront of the Fan.
And NO there is no bad terminal contact: that would be very odd to have 4 x 5boxes = 20 VRM's all on the same PCB-side, having bad terminal contacts and the other 20 on the left side not... so that's not a logical explanation.



I know this photo is from one of the boxes which has a few more heatsink-fins on VRM-5 than VRM-4, but with my other 4 boxes, both heatsink sizes are the very same, and all those boxes have the same problem: all four VRM's on the right-side are 10 degrees hotter than the left-side.... I have no logical explanation...
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July 07, 2014, 01:26:17 PM
 #1145

I am very closely watching this thread and your posts as well.

If you had a thermal camera you could understand what I meant.

Check again the temperatures of both the heatsink and the VRM of the problematic ones.
If you see huge variation, then again is a BAD contact.


Are you sure you are checking the right VRM's?

I do not know about the Neptune boards, but the Jup have a strange numeration.


Check here:











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July 07, 2014, 01:44:38 PM
 #1146

I am very closely watching this thread and your posts as well.

If you had a thermal camera you could understand what I meant.

Check again the temperatures of both the heatsink and the VRM of the problematics.
If you see huge variation, then again is a BAD contact.

I sadly have no thermal camera (I do have a Laser meter, and will use it tomorrow when one of the covers is off).  But I'm very very sure that this has nothing to do with the terminal-pads nor the heatsinks themselves.   It might be the airflow from the main-fan (twisted to the leftside)... but even that I cannot explain...

Oh... I just saw that you edited a photo to your last post....  No I'm not sure actually... the only thing I know for sure is that #1 (or zero if you start counting with zero instead) is on the top right side.... I more or less assumed that the numbering is from there round to the other side (clock wise).
Do you have a way to be sure how Neptune is numbered ?
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July 07, 2014, 02:19:45 PM
 #1147

I am sorry I do not own any Neptune, so I cannot check it.

But yes, there is one way you can check it yourself.
Disable mining (like put a false pool url).

Take a soldering unit and heat each VRM separately. When you notice a heat increase in the Advanced tab, then you know which one it is.




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July 07, 2014, 02:22:25 PM
 #1148

I am sorry I do not own any Neptune, so I cannot check it.

But yes, there is one way you can check it yourself.
Disable mining (like put a false pool url).

Take a soldering unit and heat each VRM separately. When you notice a heat increase in the Advanced tab, then you know which one it is.

Interesting suggestion.  I might try that... (I don't need to disable mining...I just can heat it with, as I have more than enough upside-room)
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July 07, 2014, 02:29:18 PM
 #1149

IS SAFE TO HAVE ONE 16 AWG PER MODULE
OR BETTER HAVE 2 CABLES PER ASIC?
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July 07, 2014, 02:38:11 PM
 #1150

IS SAFE TO HAVE ONE 16 AWG PER MODULE
OR BETTER HAVE 2 CABLES PER ASIC?

My advice: don't try 500 Mhz.  And use a fan to cool your cables and plugs (also the plugs on your PSU, if you don't use 2 cables per ASIC).
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July 07, 2014, 06:10:11 PM
 #1151

I am sorry I do not own any Neptune, so I cannot check it.

But yes, there is one way you can check it yourself.
Disable mining (like put a false pool url).

Take a soldering unit and heat each VRM separately. When you notice a heat increase in the Advanced tab, then you know which one it is.

Interesting suggestion.  I might try that... (I don't need to disable mining...I just can heat it with, as I have more than enough upside-room)

You might also try lower clock on a die to 50 and use fingerdetector for cooler VRM's.
They cool very fast but might not with massive HSs.
Can determine pairs but not individuals this way.
#1 is definately the end of the line based on foam dents alone.

It may be 12V power runs on the PCB getting hotter as they are longer on that side.
I doubt they go under the ASIC.
Thermal image might show details.
I have a PCB with 14AWG right to each VRM. (pics soon)
If it lacks the symptoms when I finish with VRM cooling solution it will add data.

Regardless of cause you might also try one of the foam/clay doodads on it's side along that edge of PCB bottom side and transfer some heat to the case. Forgot how high your lift kit is, might not work but an easy test.
I glued heatsinks to the bottom of a 28nm PCB. it helps a bit.

YMMV
Smiley

EDIT (forgot to add)
Your mods ROCK!  Well done!
Smiley

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July 07, 2014, 11:10:40 PM
 #1152

I am very closely watching this thread and your posts as well.

If you had a thermal camera you could understand what I meant.

Check again the temperatures of both the heatsink and the VRM of the problematic ones.
If you see huge variation, then again is a BAD contact.


Are you sure you are checking the right VRM's?

I do not know about the Neptune boards, but the Jup have a strange numeration.


Check here:




which would then explain why the front 4 would be the cooler ones and the back 4 be the hotter ones Smiley

tzortz, you by chance wouldn't happen to know the numbers for the oct. model would ya? and the 8vrm one?

Dreams of cyprto solving everything is slowly slipping away...Replaced by scams/hacks Sad
tolip_wen
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July 08, 2014, 01:28:44 AM
 #1153

Elenelen

The pic I promised.

Beware NSFW!
Shows VRMs running nekkid in the breeze while quaffing bootleg current at an open bar Wink

http://i.imgur.com/LhXa182.jpg

YMMV
Smiley

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July 08, 2014, 01:40:25 AM
 #1154

Elenelen

The pic I promised.

Beware NSFW!
Shows VRMs running nekkid in the breeze while quaffing bootleg current at an open bar Wink

http://i.imgur.com/LhXa182.jpg

YMMV
Smiley

nice soldering job n wire management Smiley yep no burnt pcie connectors for you...now ya just gotta figure out how to oc above 500mhz n yer golden...shouldn't take you too long thou Smiley

Dreams of cyprto solving everything is slowly slipping away...Replaced by scams/hacks Sad
tolip_wen
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July 08, 2014, 04:35:16 AM
 #1155

Elenelen

The pic I promised.

Beware NSFW!
Shows VRMs running nekkid in the breeze while quaffing bootleg current at an open bar Wink

http://i.imgur.com/LhXa182.jpg

YMMV
Smiley

nice soldering job n wire management Smiley yep no burnt pcie connectors for you...now ya just gotta figure out how to oc above 500mhz n yer golden...shouldn't take you too long thou Smiley

Thx, It works well.

The other end of the 12AWG wires

http://i.imgur.com/epKz23R.jpg

2kW x 2 load sharing on a single rail.
Runs on 1 in a pinch but at the limit and down to only 89% efficiency.
I got space and more PSU for other Nep but will replicate 2kW x 2.
8kW single rail and I don't need to meet personally at my home.

It has a jacuzzi. (top center)
http://i.imgur.com/jeIRRcw.jpg

Also note (lower right) easy access for small children to experience 120VAC firsthand.
Not TOO easy though, short ones must use available step stool.

And a heated outdoor patio. (or garage)
http://i.imgur.com/itLOTSL.jpg

The business end of the loop running during construction.
http://i.imgur.com/r2Qjrig.jpg

I constructed a pentagon and recited the verse and all that appeared was an empty V8 bottle.
http://i.imgur.com/9T8lRc2.jpg

I might flip the PCB so WB are inside of pentagon with straight barbs for smaller footprint.

I usually refrain from prototype pics, but this prototype is less ugly than most of my monstrosities.
I hope to approach the 'pair of WC Saturns complete with PSUs in one case' level of fit and finish.

YMMV
Smiley

'twisted research and opinion' donations happily accepted @
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July 08, 2014, 07:46:41 AM
 #1156

Elenelen

The pic I promised.

Beware NSFW!
Shows VRMs running nekkid in the breeze while quaffing bootleg current at an open bar Wink

http://i.imgur.com/LhXa182.jpg

YMMV
Smiley

nice soldering job n wire management Smiley yep no burnt pcie connectors for you...now ya just gotta figure out how to oc above 500mhz n yer golden...shouldn't take you too long thou Smiley

Thx, It works well.

The other end of the 12AWG wires

http://i.imgur.com/epKz23R.jpg

2kW x 2 load sharing on a single rail.
Runs on 1 in a pinch but at the limit and down to only 89% efficiency.
I got space and more PSU for other Nep but will replicate 2kW x 2.
8kW single rail and I don't need to meet personally at my home.

It has a jacuzzi. (top center)
http://i.imgur.com/jeIRRcw.jpg

Also note (lower right) easy access for small children to experience 120VAC firsthand.
Not TOO easy though, short ones must use available step stool.

And a heated outdoor patio. (or garage)
http://i.imgur.com/itLOTSL.jpg

The business end of the loop running during construction.
http://i.imgur.com/r2Qjrig.jpg

I constructed a pentagon and recited the verse and all that appeared was an empty V8 bottle.
http://i.imgur.com/9T8lRc2.jpg

I might flip the PCB so WB are inside of pentagon with straight barbs for smaller footprint.

I usually refrain from prototype pics, but this prototype is less ugly than most of my monstrosities.
I hope to approach the 'pair of WC Saturns complete with PSUs in one case' level of fit and finish.

YMMV
Smiley

Wow !  that's professional league...

Only one comment: if we cannot OC it to 550 Mhz or higher, we cannot earn back the costs for trying (added hardware costs should be earned back by the gained OC hashes)....  But, we have a nice hobby anyway  Wink
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July 08, 2014, 12:24:14 PM
 #1157

Only one comment: if we cannot OC it to 550 Mhz or higher, we cannot earn back the costs for trying (added hardware costs should be earned back by the gained OC hashes)....  But, we have a nice hobby anyway  Wink


From what hno(KnCMiner) and Luke-Jr(bfgminer author) were discussing last week in IRC,
relating to driver for bfgminer on Neptune hardware,
the required details are in the published open source cgminer Neptune driver code.
Lots has changed (my interpretation of KnC statement)
Luke-Jr implimented many core details for Oct and Nov product and seemed to already understand the impact.
I got the impression he has much of the foundation already in place.
I rely on bfgminer to maximize output on 28nm boxes.
HW error down to the core level is essential for hunting down last few %.

I'll point out Luke-Jr did not indicate he would do it or when.
Evidently Luke-Jr had already inquired with KnC and got a non answer answer regarding whom to best discuss with.
That question got answered, no idea what Luke-Jr's future plans or timeline are.
A test/development platform may have been discussed Wink
I recall compatability of a Nep cube with existing BBB in Luke-Jr's posession was discussed.
One can hope and politely show interest to both parties.
Luke-Jr had a throw BTC at him option for priority adjustment, he may still, if anyone is so inclined.

also this tidbit

"cgminer 4.4.1-knc3.4. Major CPU performance improvement ........"
From 7 days ago.
rc10 source is sitting ready to compile on git for the adventurer.

https://github.com/KnCMiner/meta-kncminer/tree/neptune/recipes-kncminer

Having an IRC client logging #kncminer (for personal use only) is often helpful.
A good second source for solutions to KnC related questions.
I happened to catch the above exchange live.

YMMV
Smiley

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July 08, 2014, 01:04:24 PM
 #1158

Only one comment: if we cannot OC it to 550 Mhz or higher, we cannot earn back the costs for trying (added hardware costs should be earned back by the gained OC hashes)....  But, we have a nice hobby anyway  Wink


From what hno(KnCMiner) and Luke-Jr(bfgminer author) were discussing last week in IRC,
relating to driver for bfgminer on Neptune hardware,
the required details are in the published open source cgminer Neptune driver code.
Lots has changed (my interpretation of KnC statement)
Luke-Jr implimented many core details for Oct and Nov product and seemed to already understand the impact.
I got the impression he has much of the foundation already in place.
I rely on bfgminer to maximize output on 28nm boxes.
HW error down to the core level is essential for hunting down last few %.

I'll point out Luke-Jr did not indicate he would do it or when.
Evidently Luke-Jr had already inquired with KnC and got a non answer answer regarding whom to best discuss with.
That question got answered, no idea what Luke-Jr's future plans or timeline are.
A test/development platform may have been discussed Wink
I recall compatability of a Nep cube with existing BBB in Luke-Jr's posession was discussed.
One can hope and politely show interest to both parties.
Luke-Jr had a throw BTC at him option for priority adjustment, he may still, if anyone is so inclined.

also this tidbit

"cgminer 4.4.1-knc3.4. Major CPU performance improvement ........"
From 7 days ago.
rc10 source is sitting ready to compile on git for the adventurer.

https://github.com/KnCMiner/meta-kncminer/tree/neptune/recipes-kncminer

Having an IRC client logging #kncminer (for personal use only) is often helpful.
A good second source for solutions to KnC related questions.
I happened to catch the above exchange live.

YMMV
Smiley


Thank you for the info! 
I see that 5 days ago a "cgminer v4.4.1-knc3.5"  is released as well..

Currently I'm a bit busy with other (not BTC related) work... I hope some official release will see the light in the interim.

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July 09, 2014, 01:30:52 AM
 #1159

Elenelen

The pic I promised.

Beware NSFW!
Shows VRMs running nekkid in the breeze while quaffing bootleg current at an open bar Wink

http://i.imgur.com/LhXa182.jpg

YMMV
Smiley

nice soldering job n wire management Smiley yep no burnt pcie connectors for you...now ya just gotta figure out how to oc above 500mhz n yer golden...shouldn't take you too long thou Smiley

Thx, It works well.

The other end of the 12AWG wires

http://i.imgur.com/epKz23R.jpg

2kW x 2 load sharing on a single rail.
Runs on 1 in a pinch but at the limit and down to only 89% efficiency.
I got space and more PSU for other Nep but will replicate 2kW x 2.
8kW single rail and I don't need to meet personally at my home.

It has a jacuzzi. (top center)
http://i.imgur.com/jeIRRcw.jpg

Also note (lower right) easy access for small children to experience 120VAC firsthand.
Not TOO easy though, short ones must use available step stool.

And a heated outdoor patio. (or garage)
http://i.imgur.com/itLOTSL.jpg

The business end of the loop running during construction.
http://i.imgur.com/r2Qjrig.jpg

I constructed a pentagon and recited the verse and all that appeared was an empty V8 bottle.
http://i.imgur.com/9T8lRc2.jpg

I might flip the PCB so WB are inside of pentagon with straight barbs for smaller footprint.

I usually refrain from prototype pics, but this prototype is less ugly than most of my monstrosities.
I hope to approach the 'pair of WC Saturns complete with PSUs in one case' level of fit and finish.

YMMV
Smiley

are you using general PC water cooling system or GPU one? or something else? I am interested to do this as well.
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July 09, 2014, 02:52:25 AM
 #1160

Well after two very frustrating weeks of tinkering and working with tech support, today I sent back one malfunctioning Neptune controller card and two non-hashing boxes to KNC. I've repurposed one Jupiter controller card to run the 3 orphaned Neptune boxes and was able to recover some of my hashing power. Sad

Thank you to those that posted about being able to flash the Neptune image onto the Jupiter board!

In the interim I've been tinkering with the power settings on my "good" Neptune to try and optimize power, reduce VRM temps, and reduce HW errors. It's more difficult and time consuming without BFM Miner, but here's what I did as a guide for your own tinkering pleasure:

Draw a matrix with 5 rows and 4 columns on paper, label the 5 rows for each of your numbered ASICs minus one. I had to remove the display panel so my ASICs on the advanced tab were 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6.. (port 4 doesn't work on this card) so I labeled my rows 0, 1, 2, 4 and 5. Label the columns 0, 1, 2 and 3.

Set all of your voltages down one notch to -0.0439 and apply. Or lower if you are feeling lucky. Smiley

Use putty to login and bring up the CGMiner screen. I recommend maximizing the screen to show as many rows as you can. Restart CGMiner from the terminal screen. Now, watch for about 8-10 minutes for cores to be disabled due to HW errors. Don't rush this part, take at least 8-10 minutes. When you see a core disabled it will show in the format:

asic.die.core

So: 0.2.36 means ASIC 1, die 3, core 37. Put one hash mark in the matrix for every error you see.

After about 10 minutes some of your boxes will still be empty, most will have a few hashes, and a few will probably have a lot of hashes. Increase the voltage on any die that has 4 or more cores that have shut off due to HW errors. The dies tie directly to the VRM pairs on the advanced page. If you get a lot of errors for 0.2.xxx then increase the voltage on ASIC 1, die 3.

Also, keep an eye on the advanced tab while you do this. If a die shuts off, increase the voltage one increment and apply the settings to reinitialize/restart that die.

I was able to lower voltages on 5 dies. I actually had to increase voltages above -0.0366 on 6 dies. I was able to reduce HW errors by about 60%. Also, just about every die that is running at -0.0439 is also running at 500MHz. Smiley

My advanced page shows power consumption between 1470W and 1475W. My packages were thrown about during shipment and some of the metal boxes have dents... as a result I have several unhappy VRMs near 100C and needed to drop some dies as low as 425MHz to keep the VRMs at 90 or less until I can better tend to the cooling needs.

Despite the setbacks I'm currently getting 3.3-3.4Th/s at the pool with my "good" Neptune.


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