Economic Devastation

[macsga]

If bitcoin hits a million dollars, won't there be a huge economic devastation?

Of course,  if it hits a million dollars it would be devastating for the banks. So in a way this will be considered as a *partial* economic devastation...

I'd personally call such an effect as a 'solution'...

[RealBitcoin]

Of course,  if it hits a million dollars it would be devastating for the banks.

So you think the banks will just stay and watch until bitcoin takes off.

Man these banks will be the ones pumping bitcoin. Once they realize how good it is, they will put billions of $ in it, and make a fortune with it later on.


They will not stay and wait until grandmothers will put money in bitcoin, or the other sheeple, banks are opportunists, they will probably invest in the next 2-3 years in bitcoin.

I actually expect the next bitcoin pump to be driven by the banks.

[OROBTC]

Of course,  if it hits a million dollars it would be devastating for the banks.

So you think the banks will just stay and watch until bitcoin takes off.

Man these banks will be the ones pumping bitcoin. Once they realize how good it is, they will put billions of $ in it, and make a fortune with it later on.


They will not stay and wait until grandmothers will put money in bitcoin, or the other sheeple, banks are opportunists, they will probably invest in the next 2-3 years in bitcoin.

I actually expect the next bitcoin pump to be driven by the banks.

^^^ (Blue coloring mine) ^^^

I just read that the recent price spikes may be caused (at least in part) by a Philippine Ponzi ("MMM", mentioned in a comment at a Zero Hedge comment today and at reddit) as well, probably, by recent Chinese buying (Zero Hedge).

[macsga]

Of course,  if it hits a million dollars it would be devastating for the banks.

So you think the banks will just stay and watch until bitcoin takes off.

Man these banks will be the ones pumping bitcoin. Once they realize how good it is, they will put billions of $ in it, and make a fortune with it later on.


They will not stay and wait until grandmothers will put money in bitcoin, or the other sheeple, banks are opportunists, they will probably invest in the next 2-3 years in bitcoin.

I actually expect the next bitcoin pump to be driven by the banks.

I don't care if Banks embrace BTC, actually that's what I want! The thing is, once they do, there's no more QE or -to put it simple- money inflation anymore. Gresham's law will do the rest. This is the first and most important thing BTC incorporates IMHO.

[RealBitcoin]

I don't care if Banks embrace BTC, actually that's what I want! The thing is, once they do, there's no more QE or -to put it simple- money inflation anymore. Gresham's law will do the rest. This is the first and most important thing BTC incorporates IMHO.

Ok so the banks are not prohibited to use BTC by their regulators or central banks.

But there are already some banks that would like to use BTC, but their regulators dont let them.


So you think that bank's CEO or other directors will just sit there and scratch their heads? They will buy BTC with their own money. (acumulate)

And then try to lobby the regulators to greenlight BTC, so that they can use the bank's funds to buy BTC and pump price higher.


So they first buy-up with their money, then pump it up with the banks money, and then make profit

I would not be surprized if this would happen.

[OROBTC]

I don't care if Banks embrace BTC, actually that's what I want! The thing is, once they do, there's no more QE or -to put it simple- money inflation anymore. Gresham's law will do the rest. This is the first and most important thing BTC incorporates IMHO.

Ok so the banks are not prohibited to use BTC by their regulators or central banks.

But there are already some banks that would like to use BTC, but their regulators dont let them.


So you think that bank's CEO or other directors will just sit there and scratch their heads? They will buy BTC with their own money. (acumulate)

And then try to lobby the regulators to greenlight BTC, so that they can use the bank's funds to buy BTC and pump price higher.


So they first buy-up with their money, then pump it up with the banks money, and then make profit

I would not be surprized if this would happen.

And that is a nice conspiracy theory that is believable.  Sure, a bankster could back up the truck buying BTC, get the authorities to approve mass market use of it, and do mightily well off of it.

Given BTC's volatility, it seems that it does not take much change in BTC demand to radically move the price.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Of course,  if it hits a million dollars it would be devastating for the banks.

So you think the banks will just stay and watch until bitcoin takes off.

Man these banks will be the ones pumping bitcoin. Once they realize how good it is, they will put billions of $ in it, and make a fortune with it later on.


They will not stay and wait until grandmothers will put money in bitcoin, or the other sheeple, banks are opportunists, they will probably invest in the next 2-3 years in bitcoin.

I actually expect the next bitcoin pump to be driven by the banks.

I don't care if Banks embrace BTC, actually that's what I want! The thing is, once they do, there's no more QE or -to put it simple- money inflation anymore. Gresham's law will do the rest. This is the first and most important thing BTC incorporates IMHO.

I disagree- if you look at the history of credit cards (especially in the US) they were originally issued as store credit. Pretty much independent from the banking system or at least independent from the gold standard. Banks will always issue credit in one form or another as there will be a market for it.

[macsga]

I don't know if it's clear enough that Bitcoin belongs to NO ONE! It doesn't matter if a bank, a ceo, a collective or a clan decides to pump it, store it, accumulate it or whatever. Bitcoin is FINITE! There simply will never be enough for everyone! If people decide to use it, there will be no upper limit - simple as that!

Regarding the conspiracy theories, I will have to post what I used to about 3 years ago in this forum: "Bitcoin is built with one goal in mind... human greed is surpassed". So, in essence, nothing is more certain than in this way, the guys who brought the world onto its knees via sovereign debt (by using bank "products") will eventually play their end game.

I personally see absolutely no devastation in this for any of us. Only for them.

[RealBitcoin]

I disagree- if you look at the history of credit cards (especially in the US) they were originally issued as store credit. Pretty much independent from the banking system or at least independent from the gold standard. Banks will always issue credit in one form or another as there will be a market for it.

Banks should loan out their capital, like it used to be in the past 3000 years.

Enough with this printed money ponzi schemes. If they adopt bitcoin, they will be restricted to loan out only as much as they have.

Then they will be forced to actually compete (like how capitalism supposed to be) and have a strict credit policy, with small default rate.

This could revive the economy, but i think its too late for this shift.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I disagree- if you look at the history of credit cards (especially in the US) they were originally issued as store credit. Pretty much independent from the banking system or at least independent from the gold standard. Banks will always issue credit in one form or another as there will be a market for it.

Banks should loan out their capital, like it used to be in the past 3000 years.

Enough with this printed money ponzi schemes. If they adopt bitcoin, they will be restricted to loan out only as much as they have.

Then they will be forced to actually compete (like how capitalism supposed to be) and have a strict credit policy, with small default rate.

This could revive the economy, but i think its too late for this shift.

Perhaps not a good example, but don't Islamic banks run on a non-fractional system?

Anyway, again I disagree with you- credit and loans have always existed (at least where allowed and not held back by religious dogma) Credit is part of the free market. It just needs to be divorced from parasitical fascist entities like the state and corporations.

[RealBitcoin]

Perhaps not a good example, but don't Islamic banks run on a non-fractional system?

Anyway, again I disagree with you- credit and loans have always existed (at least where allowed and not held back by religious dogma) Credit is part of the free market. It just needs to be divorced from parasitical fascist entities like the state and corporations.

I have no idea how they work.

I am pro credit, dont get me wrong, but only credit from capital.

But i`m anti printed money credit, which is an euphemism of population robbery. Because you steal from the population via inflation , and then loan that back at an interest to them, its an obvious theft.

[TPTB_need_war]

NWO is actually in the process of losing this war. (Excellent article.) Lately, their false flags are exposed immediately and the number of people or even countries that believes them is less and less.

The new thing is also how Putin is destroying the American weapons in the ISIL hands, effectively fighting a victorious defensive proxy war against NWO imperialism, and what's best: NWO cannot even propagate their own version of it without being laughed at!  People in countries, supposedly in NWO hands, can openly rejoice of NWO being on the receiving side in the battle.

Truly, liberation is near 

Except that Putin is the NWO.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38849

Russia & Double Taxing Tax Havens

Russia has proposed to put Switzerland on a blacklist along with 118 other countries on the provisional list of tax havens. If Russian authorities approve of the list in November, Russian companies in Switzerland will suffer double taxation. This also threatens the Austrian economy.

[RealBitcoin]

Russia & Double Taxing Tax Havens

Russia has proposed to put Switzerland on a blacklist along with 118 other countries on the provisional list of tax havens. If Russian authorities approve of the list in November, Russian companies in Switzerland will suffer double taxation. This also threatens the Austrian economy.

Idk i kinda have mixed feelings about this. I dont like overtaxation, however in this case I have to admit Russia did a good job.

Why? It's because the elite are "socialists", they want to redistribute your wealth, but not their own, they will just hide their money and not pay a single % tax.

[tabnloz]

Russia & Double Taxing Tax Havens

Russia has proposed to put Switzerland on a blacklist along with 118 other countries on the provisional list of tax havens. If Russian authorities approve of the list in November, Russian companies in Switzerland will suffer double taxation. This also threatens the Austrian economy.

Idk i kinda have mixed feelings about this. I dont like overtaxation, however in this case I have to admit Russia did a good job.

Why? It's because the elite are "socialists", they want to redistribute your wealth, but not their own, they will just hide their money and not pay a single % tax.

And in the US, Yellen says negative rates are an option if things worsen. Globally, Joe Public is going to pay for everything one way or the other.

[RealBitcoin]

Russia & Double Taxing Tax Havens

Russia has proposed to put Switzerland on a blacklist along with 118 other countries on the provisional list of tax havens. If Russian authorities approve of the list in November, Russian companies in Switzerland will suffer double taxation. This also threatens the Austrian economy.

Idk i kinda have mixed feelings about this. I dont like overtaxation, however in this case I have to admit Russia did a good job.

Why? It's because the elite are "socialists", they want to redistribute your wealth, but not their own, they will just hide their money and not pay a single % tax.

And in the US, Yellen says negative rates are an option if things worsen. Globally, Joe Public is going to pay for everything one way or the other.

Hmm this is your "666" th  post on the forum, it symbolizes the situation very well

This is devil economics, and negative rates are not an option, they are an inevitability.

[suda123]

NWO is actually in the process of losing this war. (Excellent article.) Lately, their false flags are exposed immediately and the number of people or even countries that believes them is less and less.

The new thing is also how Putin is destroying the American weapons in the ISIL hands, effectively fighting a victorious defensive proxy war against NWO imperialism, and what's best: NWO cannot even propagate their own version of it without being laughed at!  People in countries, supposedly in NWO hands, can openly rejoice of NWO being on the receiving side in the battle.

Truly, liberation is near 

Except that Putin is the NWO.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38849

Russia & Double Taxing Tax Havens

Russia has proposed to put Switzerland on a blacklist along with 118 other countries on the provisional list of tax havens. If Russian authorities approve of the list in November, Russian companies in Switzerland will suffer double taxation. This also threatens the Austrian economy.

price tanked to 100$s don't spank me daddy pls

[TPTB_need_war]

On another topic, I suggest to Armstrong that instead of reforming the Central Banks, let's eliminate them entirely with decentralized money emphasizing money that rapidly loses value if not constantly recycled, rather than money that sits and earns a fixed ROI (usury and NAV computations on fixed capital investment). Backstopping bank failures was critically important during the high fixed capital infrastructure Agricultural and Industrial (but not in the tribal Stone) Ages because the economy was hinged on power law driven centralization of capital. As I have explained exhaustively in this thread, I expect the fledgling Knowledge Age changes the model of the economy from fixed capital (and thus usury) to a bottom-up knowledge generation capital structure.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/39342

QUESTION: Don’t you think it is wrong that the private banks own the institution that administers them.

ANSWER: ...

I would advocate a public float, as is the case in Switzerland.

...

You need a central bank to clear. Bank failures were because of relationship banking where they borrow short-term and lend long-term. Elastic money made sense if you did not have enough to liquidate loans to repay depositors in a panic. The elastic money would expand during a panic and contract when over.

If energy becomes many orders-of-magnitude less expensive, this would further reduce the value of storing monetary representations of capital because the knowledge generation capital would be increasing (circulating) too fast:

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/39461

Nature’s fusion, the merging of nuclei, is the opposite process. This is actually the same process taking place within the Sun and stars. The obstacle has been generating enough heat here on earth to accomplish this process. Cold fusion is the dream of creating this process at room temperature. Nonetheless, there are MANY companies involved in developing hot fusion here on Earth, and if accomplished, will mark the end of fossil fuels and the cost would be infinitely smaller. This could be the next major innovation that spurs a leap forward in the economic progress of humankind.

Before we see fusion technology in use, we are probably looking at the next wave in 2024-2028. Keep in mind that if this technology is accomplished, it would profoundly change everything.

[macsga]

European Union countries plan a crackdown on virtual currencies and anonymous payments made online and via pre-paid cards in a bid to tackle terrorism financing after the Paris attacks, a draft document seen by Reuters said.

EU interior and justice ministers will gather in Brussels on Friday for a crisis meeting called after the Paris carnage of last weekend.

They will urge the European Commission, the EU executive arm, to propose measures to "strengthen controls of non-banking payment methods such as electronic/anonymous payments and virtual currencies and transfers of gold, precious metals, by pre-paid cards," draft conclusions of the meeting said.

Bitcoin is the most common virtual currency and is used as a vehicle for moving money around the world quickly and anonymously via the web without the need for third-party verification.

Electronic anonymous payments can be made also with pre-paid debit cards purchased in stores as gift cards.

EU ministers also plan "to curb more effectively the illicit trade in cultural goods," the draft document said.

(Reporting by Francesco Guarascio)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/19/us-france-shoooting-eu-terrorism-funding-idUSKCN0T81BW20151119

[CoinCube]

European Union countries plan a crackdown on virtual currencies and anonymous payments made online and via pre-paid cards in a bid to tackle terrorism financing after the Paris attacks, a draft document seen by Reuters said.

EU interior and justice ministers will gather in Brussels on Friday for a crisis meeting called after the Paris carnage of last weekend.

They will urge the European Commission, the EU executive arm, to propose measures to "strengthen controls of non-banking payment methods such as electronic/anonymous payments and virtual currencies and transfers of gold, precious metals, by pre-paid cards," draft conclusions of the meeting said.
...

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Jamie Diamon (JPMorgan chairman) says that bitcoin will be stopped and Axel Weber (UBS chairman) says Bitcoin has no future.
http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/jpmorgans-jamie-dimon-bitcoin-will-be-stopped/
http://www.cityam.com/228544/bitcoin-has-no-future-says-ubs-chairman-axel-weber-at-bank-of-englands-open-forum

What this means is that the banking elite have decided that cryptocurrency is a threat and that they will use their control of government to suppress that threat. It is no coincidence that you suddenly see talks of a crackdown less then a month after powerful bankers make public denunciations.

Bitcoin will be corralled and the exchanges increasingly brought under regulation and control. This will allow systemic de-anonymization. Virtual currencies resistant to de-anonymization will be outlawed entirely and their use made illegal. Tax laws will be harshly enforced and excess regulatory requirements created making transactions in cryptocurrencies more costly than fiat. The pressure will be deliberately and continuously ratcheted up depressing both growth and adoption of crypto. The near term future will be dominated by electronic centralized fiat probably SDRs and all competitors can expect to be actively suppressed.

All of this is to be expected. Expectations Bitcoin rising exponentially are in my opinion optimistic. Although very large short term gains are possible and even likely between now and when government pressure is applied in earnest a crackdown is inevitable. The interesting question is what happens after the crackdown. Worldwide SDR fiat will buy time maybe even a generation or two of kicking the can but it will eventually fail for the very reasons our current nation-state fiat system is failing.

For bitcoin to reach the lofty heights so many here dream of I believe the following conditions must be met.

1) Bitcoin must maintain enough decentralization over time to avoid outright government seizure. The more centralized bitcoin becomes the more vulnerable it becomes to an attack by centralized interest. In the immediate future governments will likely settle for suppression via de-anonymization, costly regulations, and taxation. Should bitcoin become centralized enough to allow the network to be taken over by a few court orders and a handful of police you can be confident that those court orders will materialize.

2) Everyone buying or mining bitcoins right now must die of old age. The volatility inherent in having massive sums of bitcoin in the hands of a so few gives bitcoin aspects of a pyriamid structure. This structure has been useful in motivating individuals to spread bitcoin and is in fact instrumental in bitcoins success. However, it is also a determent to confidence and long term investment. As early investors and their descendants die off the pyramid structure will progressively fade away. As coins become increasingly distributed over time the problem will fade.  

3) Bitcoin must maintain technological relevance. Powerful competitors to bitcoin will arise. Such competitors will not only need to overcome bitcoin's network effects but they will also need to maintain decentralization over time. Probably the biggest advantage of the current bitcoin distribution is the huge amounts of bitcoins that have been mined by a technologically savvy and very libertarian leaning population. This gives the community an inherent resistance to centralization that is likely to be far stronger than that of any future competitor.

I have seen many argue that bitcoin will either going to "the moon" or going to zero over the next few years. Personally I expect a very different outcome. I believe we are in for a short (few years) of bull run followed by a prolonged and sustained multi decade stagnate market as bitcoin is actively and successfully suppressed. Only as the yet to be born worldwide SDR fiat regime starts to crumble will bitcoin have a chance to reach "the moon".  

[TPTB_need_war]

CoinCube, you should recognize clearly that the solution to your enumerated list is a crypto-currency which is distributed in minute amounts to all citizens of the world. And which is not obtained through exchanges.

Once that is circulating and used in a myriad of popular activities on the internet, the elite can no longer stop it.

And this is precisely what I am preparing to launch.