Economic Devastation

[OROBTC]

investment in our children and grandchildren.

Hahaha by leaving them quadrillions of public debt on their shoulders, and 80% taxes with bank bailout-bailin series coming around the corner.

Not to mention a ponzi scheme pension system that they will have to pay for.


I`m sorry but the old generation folks really fucked up (the ones that are 50+ right now), by letting this fiat ponzi so far.

My advice to ANYONE would be to spend less and diversify your investments.  Bitcoin counts as an investment, but I would not hold more than 1% - 3% in BTC.

Consider a small investment on in gold too.

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Um, the younger voters voted in Obama..........  Fell for "Hope and Change".  Yet Obama has added more debt than ALL the past Presidents in history combined...  

Free Stuff, the oldest political trick in the book.  LOL, and just wait for your insurance premium rate increases coming soon.

But, the Republicans have shown NO SPINE in stopping him.

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[RealBitcoin]

My advice to ANYONE would be to spend less and diversify your investments.  Bitcoin counts as an investment, but I would not hold more than 1% - 3% in BTC.

Consider a small investment on in gold too.

*  *  *

Um, the younger voters voted in Obama..........  Fell for "Hope and Change".  Yet Obama has added more debt than ALL the past Presidents in history combined...  

Free Stuff, the oldest political trick in the book.  LOL, and just wait for your insurance premium rate increases coming soon.

But, the Republicans have shown NO SPINE in stopping him.

I`m from europe but we have the same shit here.

Young people fell for change bullshit, because they have no hope for the future in minimal wage jobs, and debt upon debt to survive.

The old guys are already numb and dont have anything to do, so they fell for default for the trap.

Therefor politicians target the younger age people more than the old ones.

[TPTB_need_war]

---8<---

This is why I believe privacy that can be done by the end applications will trump permissioned block chains. Sorry to James Dimon, IBM, and Blythe Masters. I will relish the day that James Dimon realizes that his money is a depreciating asset in our Knowledge Age.


---8<---

[RealBitcoin]

---8<---

This is why I believe privacy that can be done by the end applications will trump permissioned block chains. Sorry to James Dimon, IBM, and Blythe Masters. I will relish the day that James Dimon realizes that his money is a depreciating asset in our Knowledge Age.


---8<---

They know that that is why they are buying bitcoins. However they would also like to stall as much as possible to aquire more from the fiat system before it collapses.

You have to understand that the elite are not dumb, they are well hedged for any type of disasters.

However this will be positive for bitcoin, since the opportunist and sharp-eyed elite already hold bitcoin, while the not so bright elite don't. So when the game collapses, they will quickly hoard as much bitcoins as possible.

If that will come then a 1-2 million $ / bitcoin is also probable.

[TPTB_need_war]

---8<---

This is why I believe privacy that can be done by the end applications will trump permissioned block chains. Sorry to James Dimon, IBM, and Blythe Masters. I will relish the day that James Dimon realizes that his money is a depreciating asset in our Knowledge Age.


---8<---

They know that that is why they are buying bitcoins. However they would also like to stall as much as possible to aquire more from the fiat system before it collapses.

You have to understand that the elite are not dumb, they are well hedged for any type of disasters.

However this will be positive for bitcoin, since the opportunist and sharp-eyed elite already hold bitcoin, while the not so bright elite don't. So when the game collapses, they will quickly hoard as much bitcoins as possible.

If that will come then a 1-2 million $ / bitcoin is also probable.

If they are buying Bitcoin, then I think they don't get it, because Bitcoin has no end-to-end principle privacy capabilities. I am speaking about an altcoin that will have those capabilities.

[Yakamoto]

---8<---

This is why I believe privacy that can be done by the end applications will trump permissioned block chains. Sorry to James Dimon, IBM, and Blythe Masters. I will relish the day that James Dimon realizes that his money is a depreciating asset in our Knowledge Age.


---8<---

They know that that is why they are buying bitcoins. However they would also like to stall as much as possible to aquire more from the fiat system before it collapses.

You have to understand that the elite are not dumb, they are well hedged for any type of disasters.

However this will be positive for bitcoin, since the opportunist and sharp-eyed elite already hold bitcoin, while the not so bright elite don't. So when the game collapses, they will quickly hoard as much bitcoins as possible.

If that will come then a 1-2 million $ / bitcoin is also probable.

Well we aren't sure that it is specifically Bitcoin that they are hoarding, it could be anything from silver to gold, platinum to palladium, even property or other hard assets. Maybe they're even buying infrastructure that they can use after all the companies collapse as their assets become worthless. Who knows.

I will say that a lot of the companies that use Bitcoin will likely be among the survivors of a fiat collapse, but we have no computer models to simulate this, so it is all just speculation.

I want to use more from the fiat systems as a means of gathering more physical materials, and well, having more to utilize after the system inevitably collapses. Who doesn't. But the issue is that Bitcoin is not necessarily an end-all be all for economics after a collapse; sure it will increase dramatically in value, but there will be even fewer people that would be able to use it if Bitcoin was to spike to $1m/$2m a coin.

[suda123]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/12/04/irs-power-over-passports-signed-into-law/

PASSPORTS 50k SOMETHING SOMETHING DEVASTATIozn

what does this mean, I have a sense of what it means negative interest rates etc but id feel better if I hear it from you guys.

[RealBitcoin]

If they are buying Bitcoin, then I think they don't get it, because Bitcoin has no end-to-end principle privacy capabilities. I am speaking about an altcoin that will have those capabilities.

I dont think the elite care about privacy.

Well we aren't sure that it is specifically Bitcoin that they are hoarding, it could be anything from silver to gold, platinum to palladium, even property or other hard assets. Maybe they're even buying infrastructure that they can use after all the companies collapse as their assets become worthless. Who knows.

They are hoarding those too, they are well hedged and hoarding anything from fine art to gems, to metals, to cryptocurrencies.

They have a portfolio and the % allocation in each asset depends on the macroeconomic enviroment. But I guess hard assets & commodities make up most of their portfolio. I would be a miracle if they have more than 1-2% in bitcoin.

[sidhujag]

If they are buying Bitcoin, then I think they don't get it, because Bitcoin has no end-to-end principle privacy capabilities. I am speaking about an altcoin that will have those capabilities.

I dont think the elite care about privacy.

Well we aren't sure that it is specifically Bitcoin that they are hoarding, it could be anything from silver to gold, platinum to palladium, even property or other hard assets. Maybe they're even buying infrastructure that they can use after all the companies collapse as their assets become worthless. Who knows.

They are hoarding those too, they are well hedged and hoarding anything from fine art to gems, to metals, to cryptocurrencies.

They have a portfolio and the % allocation in each asset depends on the macroeconomic enviroment. But I guess hard assets & commodities make up most of their portfolio. I would be a miracle if they have more than 1-2% in bitcoin.

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

[RealBitcoin]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

[OROBTC]

...

I think that we can learn something from the very rich.

They tend to hold things/investments of REAL VALUE.  Shares in companies counts.  Maybe bonds (maybe not!).  Gold/Platinum.  Real Estate.  Fine Art (the very best only). 

And probably more BITCOIN than most might imagine!

The pattern I usually see is DIVERSIFICATION!

*   *   *

"Our" TPTB above, and in other threads, properly identifies many weaknesses of BTC now.  Some of which can obfuscate (mixing) and by hiding (small transactions, or many of them).

But, I think that in the longer run TPTB is correct.  We need a better coin that will protect privacy better.

[CoinCube]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

The very wealthy are extremely concerned about keeping both their wealth and especially their influence hidden.

Ownership of large amounts of stock today is done via trust funds allowing money and power to be utilized without public scrutiny. Following citizens united corporations have the right to spend unlimited amounts of money on politics but there is no reciprocal right for the public to learn the the identity of the individuals who own those corporations and thus who benefits from said lobbying.

Attempts to hide your money in cash or through any anonymous exchange is an attempt to capture a far weaker version of a benefit the very wealthy already have.    

[OROBTC]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

The very wealthy are extremely concerned about keeping both their wealth and especially their influence hidden.

Ownership of large amounts of stock today is done via trust funds allowing money and power to be utilized without public scrutiny. Following citizens united corporations have the right to spend unlimited amounts of money on politics but there is no reciprocal right for the public to learn the the identity of the individuals who own those corporations and thus who benefits from said lobbying.

Attempts to hide your money in cash or through any anonymous exchange is an attempt to capture a far weaker version of a benefit the very wealthy already have.    

I would agree CoinCube, it is VERY hard to find out what the Rothschilds hold, for example.  Yes, the wikipedia article talks all about their castles & vineyards (some about banks too I think, it's a LOOOOONG article).

For every loudmouth like Bill Gates, there are probably three to five times as many (albeit not as wealthy as Gates) who do keep their wealth as hidden as possible.

Were I very rich, it's what I would do...  Trusts, castles, political influence...

[Yakamoto]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

The very wealthy are extremely concerned about keeping both their wealth and especially their influence hidden.

Ownership of large amounts of stock today is done via trust funds allowing money and power to be utilized without public scrutiny. Following citizens united corporations have the right to spend unlimited amounts of money on politics but there is no reciprocal right for the public to learn the the identity of the individuals who own those corporations and thus who benefits from said lobbying.

Attempts to hide your money in cash or through any anonymous exchange is an attempt to capture a far weaker version of a benefit the very wealthy already have.    

I would agree CoinCube, it is VERY hard to find out what the Rothschilds hold, for example.  Yes, the wikipedia article talks all about their castles & vineyards (some about banks too I think, it's a LOOOOONG article).

For every loudmouth like Bill Gates, there are probably three to five times as many (albeit not as wealthy as Gates) who do keep their wealth as hidden as possible.

Were I very rich, it's what I would do...  Trusts, castles, political influence...

Well we even have shows such as "The Millionaire Next Door" and so that detail how people keep their wealth hidden. It's not like it is difficult to hide one's wealth. You can either be vocal about it, or you can keep it tucked away and have the wealth to go back to, but never say a word about it. I personally would follow the latter, but it's always up to people to choose.

There may be a bunch of people between Warren Buffet and Bill Gates in the top 10 wealthiest people or whatever that won't ever say a word because, even just looking around on the internet, a lot of people want to take advantage of it.

Anyways, it is extremely likely that most of the wealthiest people have their funds hidden away in trust funds or infrastructure, as I have said.

[sidhujag]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

And where are the elite investing? Any links to where they put their money? I think you got this backwards.
The fact that you dont even know who the elite are proves my point.

[RealBitcoin]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

And where are the elite investing? Any links to where they put their money? I think you got this backwards.
The fact that you dont even know who the elite are proves my point.

Gold, Oil, Land, Estate,Stocks,Bonds, Precious Metals, Precious Stones, Old Art, Infrastructure, Mining and Political influence.

The elite is a class, it doesnt matter who personally is in there, they are all doing the same thing.


Your point is not proven.

[CoinCube]

The elite is a class, it doesnt matter who personally is in there, they are all doing the same thing.


Your point is not proven.

What matters is that neither you I or the public knows who these people are, what they own, or how they use their influence to manipulate the political system.

The richest people in the world are typically listed as
1) Bill Gates: Net Worth: $79.2 B
2) Carlos Slim Helu & family: Net Worth: $77.1 B
3) Warren Buffett: Net Worth: $72.7 B

However, can we have any confidence that this is truly the case. In an era where wills are not public, and assets can be transferred between generations in blind trusts perhaps Bill Gates is really the 11th richest person and there are 10 others wealthier and more powerful wielding influence behind the scenes.

Maybe not, point is I have no idea and neither does anyone else. The system is opaque and completly non transparent. The very wealthy as long as they are careful already have their anonymity.

One of the greatest features of bitcoin and blockchain technology in general is its utter transparency.

[OROBTC]

The elite is a class, it doesnt matter who personally is in there, they are all doing the same thing.


Your point is not proven.

What matters is that neither you I or the public knows who these people are, what they own, or how they use their influence to manipulate the political system.

The richest people in the world are typically listed as
1) Bill Gates: Net Worth: $79.2 B
2) Carlos Slim Helu & family: Net Worth: $77.1 B
3) Warren Buffett: Net Worth: $72.7 B

However, can we have any confidence that this is truly the case. In an era where wills are not public, and assets can be transferred between generations in blind trusts perhaps Bill Gates is really the 11th richest person and there are 10 others wealthier and more powerful wielding influence behind the scenes.

Maybe not, point is I have no idea and neither does anyone else. The system is opaque and completly non transparent. The very wealthy as long as they are careful already have their anonymity.

One of the greatest features of bitcoin and blockchain technology in general is its utter transparency.

Yep, you are good, CoinCube at putting public facts out there.

Yes, you NEVER see the Rothschilds, for example, in the Forbes billionaire lists, yet I suspect that they are very near the top of the world's wealthiest families.

And I do NOT mean to pick on them, the R. family has every right to the money they made, and to have as much privacy as they can acquire to keep the leeches away from them.  There are likely a LOT of other rich people/families who are laying low as well, and I do not have a problem with that as long as their gains are not from criminality (and let's leave BANKING out of this re criminality).

As mentioned above, were I REALLY RICH, I would certainly not be commenting here at bitcointalk, LOL...  I would be hunkered down in a castle somewhere, quietly pulling strings or whatever to keep my money in the family.

[sidhujag]

They dont care for privacy eh? Who are the elite you refer to btw?

The bankers and the richest persons on the planet. They already do what they do out in the open and have press conferences about their investments, for them its no point to hide it.

And where are the elite investing? Any links to where they put their money? I think you got this backwards.
The fact that you dont even know who the elite are proves my point.

Gold, Oil, Land, Estate,Stocks,Bonds, Precious Metals, Precious Stones, Old Art, Infrastructure, Mining and Political influence.

The elite is a class, it doesnt matter who personally is in there, they are all doing the same thing.


Your point is not proven.

You are so full of it kiddo, you can tell you have limited knowledge yet try to preach like you are an expert. My point is proven with your response again. Good day

[CoinCube]

Gold, Oil, Land, Estate,Stocks,Bonds, Precious Metals, Precious Stones, Old Art, Infrastructure, Mining and Political influence.

The elite is a class, it doesnt matter who personally is in there, they are all doing the same thing.

Your point is not proven.

You are so full of it kiddo, you can tell you have limited knowledge yet try to preach like you are an expert. My point is proven with your response again. Good day

The first law of holes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_holes

"The first law of holes, or the law of holes, is an adage which states that if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging"

Just yesterday I had to apply this very law to myself. Right after the wired and gizmodo articles came out I was convinced for a moment. Then all the counter evidence started to show up the pgp inconstancies and a potential financial motive for deliberate and long term misdirection. The result was this wonderful post.

WE HAVE FOUND SATOSHI AND HE IS STILL WORKING WITH BITCOIN.

That is my take on this as well.

Edit: On further review and in light of the new evidence that the community has unearthed I retract the above statement =)

Not my finest hour but hey we are all human. Sometimes the best course of action is to look around, smile, and realize we have dug ourselves into a bit of a hole =)