[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Solarminer]

My apologies if these have already been asked and answered but I'm having difficulty getting definitive answers to the following:

1. When an InstantTX is initiated how are miners on the network notified that the output of a transaction already on the blockchain can only be spent by a transaction selected by a quorum of Masternodes? E.g. is a new block validation rule propagated across the network for the miners to follow?

2. Can an InstantTX reference a transaction which is in a miner's memory pool and not yet mined to a block in the way that transactions which have not yet been mined to a block can reference one another?

3. If there is a blockchain reorganisation because a longer chain is revealed to a part of the network is there a way to enforce the InstantTX is maintained. E.g. how long does the list of what InstantTX are valid remain cached with the Masternodes and miners?

4. How are master nodes remunerated for their services?

I can't really answer the questions the way you are asking them.  I will give some details that might give you the answers you are looking for.

1,2,3. An InstanTX is a transaction that locks the input for the next 6 blocks.  So it doesn't allow any transactions that would use that same input during those 6 blocks.  This is all done in the masternode memory pool before it gets to the miners.  The other part of this is that you can't initiate an InstanTX transaction until the input you want to spend has 6 confirmations.

4. Masternodes are paid 45% of the block reward which comes out to about 2 dash once a week.

FYI, InstanTX will be changed to InstantSend in Version 12.1

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

Solarminer, whats that dashNgo? Sounds interesting!

[stealth923]

The DASHDrink Vending Machine is making a return to the D10e conference in July! 

DashnDrink: Dash-Powered Vending Machine Returning for d10e

Thats an awesome article and great to see the DashNDrink back in action showing the power of instant transactions!!!

Very excited to see the outcomes of this conference.

[No_2]

I can't really answer the questions the way you are asking them.  I will give some details that might give you the answers you are looking for.

1,2,3. An InstanTX is a transaction that locks the input for the next 6 blocks.  So it doesn't allow any transactions that would use that same input during those 6 blocks.  This is all done in the masternode memory pool before it gets to the miners.  The other part of this is that you can't initiate an InstanTX transaction until the input you want to spend has 6 confirmations.

4. Masternodes are paid 45% of the block reward which comes out to about 2 dash once a week.

FYI, InstanTX will be changed to InstantSend in Version 12.1

Thanks for this.

You say it locks the input for the next 6 blocks, is that the input of the transaction that's just been broadcast to the network?

How do the masternodes pass this inforamtion about the lock to the miners?

Do you have any links to papers which cover this in more detail and also on fees disbursement to masternodes?

[tungfa]

Dash RSVPs to the Jaxx party!
Integration coming soon
http://sumo.ly/kzhv

[UdjinM6]

My apologies if these have already been asked and answered but I'm having difficulty getting definitive answers to the following:

1. When an InstantTX is initiated how are miners on the network notified that the output of a transaction already on the blockchain can only be spent by a transaction selected by a quorum of Masternodes? E.g. is a new block validation rule propagated across the network for the miners to follow?

2. Can an InstantTX reference a transaction which is in a miner's memory pool and not yet mined to a block in the way that transactions which have not yet been mined to a block can reference one another?

3. If there is a blockchain reorganisation because a longer chain is revealed to a part of the network is there a way to enforce the InstantTX is maintained. E.g. how long does the list of what InstantTX are valid remain cached with the Masternodes and miners?

4. How are master nodes remunerated for their services?

I can't really answer the questions the way you are asking them.  I will give some details that might give you the answers you are looking for.

1,2,3. An InstanTX is a transaction that locks the input for the next 6 blocks.  So it doesn't allow any transactions that would use that same input during those 6 blocks.  This is all done in the masternode memory pool before it gets to the miners.  The other part of this is that you can't initiate an InstanTX transaction until the input you want to spend has 6 confirmations.
...

That's inaccurate unfortunately:
- inputs are locked for 1 hour e.g. 24 blocks on average
- all nodes (regular, masternodes, miners, etc) process and verify IX independently just like any other tx (or block, or whatever).

@No_2
I gave an extended explanation there https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/questions-about-instanttx.9184/#post-97206

[megges]

It's also a prime example of why obscured blockchains are toast because the rot would still be in there festering and atrophying the integrity of the asset courtesy of a total absence of transparency.

blablablub ...

The big problem with obscured blockchain is already in the name - it's obscured - so if something like DOAs disaster will happen with an obscured blockchain, you won't even see that it happened and that the funds were stolen - because the blockchain is obscured !!! And that's that big problem ! - mathematical proof or not, if you can't see if something is going wrong - than your mathematical proof won't do a shit ...

[stealth923]

Dash RSVPs to the Jaxx party!
Integration coming soon
http://sumo.ly/kzhv

Whoa that's awesome!. Congrats to dash!

[Minotaur26]

My apologies if these have already been asked and answered but I'm having difficulty getting definitive answers to the following:

1. When an InstantTX is initiated how are miners on the network notified that the output of a transaction already on the blockchain can only be spent by a transaction selected by a quorum of Masternodes? E.g. is a new block validation rule propagated across the network for the miners to follow?

2. Can an InstantTX reference a transaction which is in a miner's memory pool and not yet mined to a block in the way that transactions which have not yet been mined to a block can reference one another?

3. If there is a blockchain reorganisation because a longer chain is revealed to a part of the network is there a way to enforce the InstantTX is maintained. E.g. how long does the list of what InstantTX are valid remain cached with the Masternodes and miners?

4. How are master nodes remunerated for their services?

I just thought it would be useful to quote Udjin's answers here for the benefit of everyone that may have the same questions.

To answer this let me take a step back and explain a bit how IX works. It's smth like this:

1.

- wallet sends "txlock" message which internal structure is the same as normal "tx" - IX request
- all nodes on the network recognize such message and store it in a separate list - "request list"
- all nodes have deterministic way of figuring out some kind of masternode(MN) Rank for each given MN based on the blockhash of the last input
- having all this all nodes can find top10 MNs for current IX request, MNs that find themselves in top10 sign "txlvote" message - IX vote - and relay it to the network
- all nodes now can verify such messages and count them as 1 valid IX vote if everything is ok (MN is in node's top10 and signature is correct)
- when there is enough legit IX votes on some node it moves IX from "request list" to "lock list", if there is not enough votes in 5 minutes - lock request expires
- from this moment any other tx which has one of the locked inputs is recognized as invalid, blocks containing such txes are considered to be invalid too and rejected


2. Currently that's not the option, all inputs must have at least 6 blockchain confirmations. Probably a good idea to support chained IXs though, needs more investigation/testing imo.


3. Successfully locked inputs are kept in "lock list" for 1 hour i.e. 24 blocks on average which should be enough imo but I'm sure we can easily extend this if there is a need or some research saying that this is not enough.


4. MNs receive 45% of block reward, one MN at a time. They all stand in a queue 90% of a time and then there is last 10% which is probabilistic. Their reward is not tied to number of IX or DS they actually served, it's a reward for providing this service in general.

[Solarminer]

My apologies if these have already been asked and answered but I'm having difficulty getting definitive answers to the following:

1. When an InstantTX is initiated how are miners on the network notified that the output of a transaction already on the blockchain can only be spent by a transaction selected by a quorum of Masternodes? E.g. is a new block validation rule propagated across the network for the miners to follow?

2. Can an InstantTX reference a transaction which is in a miner's memory pool and not yet mined to a block in the way that transactions which have not yet been mined to a block can reference one another?

3. If there is a blockchain reorganisation because a longer chain is revealed to a part of the network is there a way to enforce the InstantTX is maintained. E.g. how long does the list of what InstantTX are valid remain cached with the Masternodes and miners?

4. How are master nodes remunerated for their services?

I can't really answer the questions the way you are asking them.  I will give some details that might give you the answers you are looking for.

1,2,3. An InstanTX is a transaction that locks the input for the next 6 blocks.  So it doesn't allow any transactions that would use that same input during those 6 blocks.  This is all done in the masternode memory pool before it gets to the miners.  The other part of this is that you can't initiate an InstanTX transaction until the input you want to spend has 6 confirmations.
...

That's inaccurate unfortunately:
- inputs are locked for 1 hour e.g. 24 blocks on average
- all nodes (regular, masternodes, miners, etc) process and verify IX independently just like any other tx (or block, or whatever).

@No_2
I gave an extended explanation there https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/questions-about-instanttx.9184/#post-97206

Thanks UdjinM6.  I am humbled by your presence once again.

As for this question,
You say it locks the input for the next 6 24 blocks, is that the input of the transaction that's just been broadcast to the network?

The input is the address(or addresses) that holds the funds before you hit send.  For example, you received a transaction that was sent to your deposit address Xyzpdq.  If you IX to someone else and use the Xyzpdq input, no other transactions on the network can use Xyzpdq until the lock is released.  In reality, once the transaction is sent the Xyzpdq will get converted to the sent address and a change address(if extra).  The change address will be available to spend with normal tx, or after 6 blocks for an InstanTX.

[gerhard]

"MNs receive 45% of block reward, one MN at a time. They all stand in a queue 90% of a time and then there is last 10% which is probabilistic."

I have always wondered if is it possible for a miner to pick from the 10% of MNs ready for payment one that they control. In this way, miners could game the system by paying their MNs at a faster rate than the general population. I wish the payment scheme was a little more deterministic than 10%, which is almost 400.

[Solarminer]

Solarminer, whats that dashNgo? Sounds interesting!

The easiest way to explain it is to have you look at the website.  Keep in mind this isn't finished. www.dashngo.com

Tomasc and Hashengineering deserve credit for building the app and wallet we are using.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

Solarminer, whats that dashNgo? Sounds interesting!

The easiest way to explain it is to have you look at the website.  Keep in mind this isn't finished. www.dashngo.com

Tomasc and Hashengineering deserve credit for building the app and wallet we are using.

So the app is in development?

[qwizzie]

Solarminer, whats that dashNgo? Sounds interesting!

The easiest way to explain it is to have you look at the website.  Keep in mind this isn't finished. www.dashngo.com

Tomasc and Hashengineering deserve credit for building the app and wallet we are using.

looks very interesting..

[qwizzie]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1516987.msg15266381#msg15266381
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1516913.0



thats indeed high quality trolling, something our regular Icetroll seems incapable of...

[UdjinM6]

"MNs receive 45% of block reward, one MN at a time. They all stand in a queue 90% of a time and then there is last 10% which is probabilistic."

I have always wondered if is it possible for a miner to pick from the 10% of MNs ready for payment one that they control. In this way, miners could game the system by paying their MNs at a faster rate than the general population. I wish the payment scheme was a little more deterministic than 10%, which is almost 400.

No, miners can't choose MN on their own. It's probabilistic but it's also deterministic - it uses the same ranking algo and similar voting scheme so every node on the network should come to the same result who the payee is, blocks with incorrect payee are rejected.

[Taylor05]

"MNs receive 45% of block reward, one MN at a time. They all stand in a queue 90% of a time and then there is last 10% which is probabilistic."

I have always wondered if is it possible for a miner to pick from the 10% of MNs ready for payment one that they control. In this way, miners could game the system by paying their MNs at a faster rate than the general population. I wish the payment scheme was a little more deterministic than 10%, which is almost 400.

You are misunderstanding. It is probabilistic AND deterministic. The miner doesn't have a choice about which masternode to pay. Which masternode the miner must select is determined by the previous block's hash. It truly is random and outside the control of the miner.

[Taylor05]

"MNs receive 45% of block reward, one MN at a time. They all stand in a queue 90% of a time and then there is last 10% which is probabilistic."

I have always wondered if is it possible for a miner to pick from the 10% of MNs ready for payment one that they control. In this way, miners could game the system by paying their MNs at a faster rate than the general population. I wish the payment scheme was a little more deterministic than 10%, which is almost 400.

No, miners can't choose MN on their own. It's probabilistic but it's also deterministic - it uses the same ranking algo and similar voting scheme so every node on the network should come to the same result who the payee is, blocks with incorrect payee are rejected.

Damn! You beat me to it!

[xxxgoodgirls]

How many GB is the dash blockchain? I fear that a 8GB sd card is not enough for a raspberry.

[UdjinM6]

How many GB is the dash blockchain? I fear that a 8GB sd card is not enough for a raspberry.

Code:

$ du -sh .dash/
1.9G	.dash/