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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9723463 times)
toknormal
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July 17, 2016, 09:47:26 PM


I didn't claim the zero-marginal-profit equilibrium is attained instantly

Well you kind of did - by omission. I had to force that qualification out of you.

You also didn't mention that you're implicitly comparing homogeneous with heterogeneous denominated investment environments, so the "R" part of "OI" doesn't start yielding a net return in dollar terms for several years. During all that time the principal sum is at risk and on which your little "rule" is brought to bear.

The Dash denominated return will be consistent and is correctly reported at 8%-15%. The dollar denominated return will be an equilibrium between growth in principle and the exchange rate with the dollar, and that in turn in turn depends on simple supply and demand, which right now shows no signs of ill health.

Meanwhile, you think capital isn't "flooding into the rare opportunities" in this sector already ? The marketcap of the top 5 assets has had about $5 billion added to it in 6 months. The alts have experienced even more relative growth - the top 5 going from roughly $460 million to $1700 million in cap. That puts pressure on dollar valuations and consequent dollar gains via competitive draws on capital. Yet Dash masternodes are still yeilding their 8-15% in Dash terms and will continue to do so.

There is therefore no conflict between between an internal economic model that pays an arbitrarily fixed network infrastructure dividend and the investment performance of that model in a wider, dollar denominated economy.

The market is free to set it. It isn't controlled by E. Duffield.

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July 17, 2016, 09:48:19 PM

It's pretty simple, any investment has risk.

Saying "you can make 8-15% return" is not a complete statement without saying "you could lose 100% of your investment as well".

Evan is simply trying to hook in uneducated investors to buy into his scheme.

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toknormal
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July 17, 2016, 09:54:01 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2016, 10:54:05 PM by toknormal


It's pretty simple, any investment has risk.

Saying "you can make 8-15% return" is not a complete statement without saying "you could lose 100% of your investment as well".

I'd probably have to agree with that. Clarification is useful on all sides because "ROI" can mean different things depending on the investor's priorities. I think of it as 8%-15% because I'm accumulating Dash not dollars (at least as far as masternode collateral is concerned). On the other hand someone who was looking for a dollar investment and wanted a guaranteed return in dollar terms would have to put their money in the bank (if they can find one with a +ve rate  Shocked ) ). That type of investment is clearly not the same as one where the (dollar) principal is at risk.
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July 17, 2016, 10:58:20 PM

LOL just checked in after a long break and see that our favorite troll is still hard at work, ICEBREAKER go to jail already you scammer scum.  Kiss

“Every morning we are born again. What we do today is what matters most.”
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July 17, 2016, 11:04:54 PM


It's pretty simple, any investment has risk.

Saying "you can make 8-15% return" is not a complete statement without saying "you could lose 100% of your investment as well".

I'd probably have to agree with that. Clarification is useful on all sides because "ROI" can mean different things depending on the investor's priorities. I think of it as 8%-15% because I'm accumulating Dash not dollars (at least as far as masternode collateral is concerned). On the other hand someone who was looking for a dollar investment and wanted a guaranteed return in dollar terms would have to put their money in the bank (if they can find one with a +ve rate  Shocked ) ). That type of investment is clearly not the same as one where the (dollar) principal is at risk.


Thank you for at least acknowledging this.

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Icebucket
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July 17, 2016, 11:27:27 PM



Please try to stay on topic!

Go to Monero thread U shill, Everyone knows who you are and what you are trying to pull U scammer scum  Kiss

https://hashfastscam.wordpress.com/

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July 18, 2016, 12:57:42 AM

I do know what I'm talking about. I have an MBA with a concentration in Finance and Economics from a top 10 business school, became an associate partner at a worldwide management consulting firm which is widely considered the most prestigious in the industry where I served financial services clients, and most recently led the research and due diligence for the payments sector at a $20 billion investment firm. I am now sought by payments startups to help them with strategy and market positioning. So I'm actually a leading expert in the payments segment.

The paragraph on the "easymine" was not included because you didn't ask about it. But since you are asking now, here is my previous write-up on the subject (updated slightly since the initial post last October).

Let's do some simple math to see whether the early mining data aligns with Evan's claims. Let's assume that Evan (or his colleague) were the ONLY miners for the first 500 blocks (that's the worst case scenario... you can't assume he mined more than 100%). If we simply determine the network hash rate for the first 100 blocks (using the networkhashps command in the Dash wallet), you can see that there was only 12.6kh/s... however, there is a delay between the genesis block and the first "mined" block. If you exclude the genesis block, the hashrate was about 395kh/s. This is probably his hashrate, but let's be conservative and assume it took time to get everything going. From blocks 100-500 the average jumps to 711.2kh/s and appears pretty steady that whole time. Let's assume that this 711.2kh/s is Evan and his friends. They would have gotten about 245,000 of the first 250,000 coins mined (through block 500).

By block 500, things start to change. A few other miners are clearly joining them by this point, but assuming the 711 of the 895 kh/s were theirs from block 500-600, then they still got 79% of those blocks too (worth about 40,000 Dash). If you repeat this process to figure out the share of each block of 100 they got, you get something like the following:

EDIT: The coin start and coin finish are the beginning total coins in circulation and ending coins in circulation for each set of 100 blocks... so the difference is how many were created for each 100 block section... multiply that by the dev's share and you can see where I get the numbers from.


http://imgur.com/Se5USkw

Each row represents 100 blocks. As you can see, by about block 1,000, the hashrate was up dramatically... this is consistent with posts on Bitcointalk of many other miners saying they were up and running. There are a couple of points at which network hash drops, consistent with the fact that a couple of bug fixes went out which probably caused Evan and other miners to stop mining for a brief time to update. By block 2300, Evan and Co's share was probably less than 1% of the network hash rate, by which time these estimates would put them at about 511k coins. After that, there is little chance they got a decent share... maybe another 6,000 coins for the next 1,000 blocks, but basically the party was over by then, so to speak. So if you assume they got about 518k coins by the time they were consistently getting less than 1% of the coins, that represents 7.8% of the current number of coins in circulation... which is very consistent with the statements from Evan that "all of the founders" hold less than 10% of the supply combined as of early 2015 (when the available supply was much lower than even now).

Also, these assumptions are generous to the "instamine" crowd for several reasons:

1) It assumes that Evan was the ONLY miner for the first 500 blocks, which we know isn't true. There was at least one other developer at that time, I believe a friend of Evan's who sold out in the first few months... so the "instamine" would have been split at least between two people
2) It assumes no one else besides those two were mining for the first 500 blocks (which may be the case... we'll never know, but I make this assumption in the interests of being conservative)
3) It assumes that Evan and Co had absolutely no down time for updating their miners when bug fixes came out, which is impossible... any downtime would reduce these assumptions
4) It assumes that once huge amounts of mining power joined beginning at block 500 that Evan didn't start experiencing an elevated level of rejects... this is unlikely as well since blocks were being created so rapidly at that time - literally seconds apart on average - that he and many others reported rejects, getting on wrong chains, having to reset, etc. Evan would have no way to be immune to these issues caused by the rapid creation of the blocks and network latency, so the true "networkhashps" is clearly understated during that period because many blocks were rejected and not counted. This means that my calculations overstate the share of blocks he would have been getting at that time.
5) It assumes that he never sold any Dash

Based on the data, I see no reason to disbelieve Evan and the stated amount of coin that he has. In fact, the data seems to support everything he's said.

As far as the code itself goes, there was no crippled miner (I think you are thinking of Monero). The code that set the mining reward and difficulty was inherited from Litecoin's code and limited the rate that the difficulty and mining reward would change. There is no evidence that it was intentionally planted there, so I tend to believe that Evan just wasn't aware of every line in Litecoin's code when he forked it. Also, Evan never claimed that X11 was GPU only forever. He said it would be ASIC resistant for at least two years, with the intent to follow the same adoption path as Bitcoin (wide distribution through mining, then ASICs later on). That is exactly what happened. No broken promises there. As for why no relaunch or no airdrop of coins or whatever to fix it? All those options were discussed by the community at the time. The community decided those were bad ideas... read the forums from those early days. It was already trading on exchanges and it would have been unfair to those who had purchased coins instead of mining them to reset.

If you want professional discourse and really seek information, I'm happy to provide it. However, this is my last response to you unless you drop loaded language, name calling, swearing, and other unprofessional behavior. Last chance to avoid the ignore button. Actually, I mainly posted here despite your behavior for the benefit of other forum readers... you are spreading misinformation that originated from forum trolls.

great post. i remember it from a while back and was looking for it when debating but could not find it. i'm quoting it now so as not to lose it, thanks.

anyone know where the chart is that shows how many masternodes would have to be owned/nsa compromised to have a chance to deanonymize a transaction? i think it was something like 1% of transactions @ 8 rounds if someone controlled 90% of the masternodes. seems like i remember a official thread on DASHtalk with all the numbers and a chart.

DASH = Digital Cash         FAQ          DASHTALK        DashNews
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July 18, 2016, 03:00:21 AM

bought EXCL  on Bittrex- PoS clone of DASH and today.. i bought my first DASH!

will want to make masternode here soon

love this technology, how could i miss it before

yolo
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July 18, 2016, 06:40:38 AM


Anyone want out ? Here's your chance.




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July 18, 2016, 06:53:23 AM

bought EXCL  on Bittrex- PoS clone of DASH and today.. i bought my first DASH!

will want to make masternode here soon

love this technology, how could i miss it before

not sure how you missed it or why i had you on ignore.  Huh
most everyone on my ignore list came from this DASH thread.

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July 18, 2016, 07:20:16 AM


how could i miss it before

You didn't.

DRK is one of the best coins out there!

DRK going to the moon Cheesy
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July 18, 2016, 08:21:49 AM


It's pretty simple, any investment has risk.

Saying "you can make 8-15% return" is not a complete statement without saying "you could lose 100% of your investment as well".

I'd probably have to agree with that. Clarification is useful on all sides because "ROI" can mean different things depending on the investor's priorities. I think of it as 8%-15% because I'm accumulating Dash not dollars (at least as far as masternode collateral is concerned). On the other hand someone who was looking for a dollar investment and wanted a guaranteed return in dollar terms would have to put their money in the bank (if they can find one with a +ve rate  Shocked ) ). That type of investment is clearly not the same as one where the (dollar) principal is at risk.


Hi guys, hi Tok,
in the same way I can go to zero thinking in FIAT, is it legit this way to see the thing?

 "If I bought my masternode at 2  dollars per coin and now it's at +8, my ROI is now around 46%."

1 masternod at 2000$ =passive incomes around  160-300 $   (ROI 8-15% in Dash)
1 masternod at 8000$ =passive incomes around  640-1200 $ (ROI 8-15% in Dash but 32-60% in FIAT)

toknormal
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July 18, 2016, 08:55:43 AM


is it legit this way to see the thing?....1 masternod at 8000$ =passive incomes around  640-1200 $ (ROI 8-15% in Dash but 32-60% in FIAT)

Yes - in other words you've valued the ROI in fiat, in which case the exchange rate has as much to say as anything else. It can go up and it can go down, so even though you gained more Dash due to masternode revenue, you could loose due to adverse exchange rate.

However:

ALL cryptocurrencies are subject to exchange rate risk if you measure the gains in fiat.
NOT ALL cryptocurrencies grow your holding by offering an infrastructure investment dividend

Thats the difference.

Also, if you have 200 Dash lying around in your wallet, it will not gain any returns. If you invest that holding in Dash's infrastructure reserve market then it will grow on a 8-15% return basis.

How that works out in fiat terms is another story.
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July 18, 2016, 09:09:39 AM


There are still no takers for that 210 BTC on polo demanding Dash.

C'mon now folks. You could be picking yourself up one of these to dot about in... Wink
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July 18, 2016, 09:21:31 AM


There are still no takers for that 210 BTC on polo demanding Dash.

C'mon now folks. You could be picking yourself up one of these to dot about in... Wink


Lending supply on Polo has more than halved, interested rates for lending still depressed.
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July 18, 2016, 09:25:53 AM

We're happy and proud to announce that you can use Dash to make a bank transfer or top up your Bitwala Debit Card. This is made possible through our partnership with shapeshift. Bitwa.la is the first service to offer bank transfers and a debit card that is letting you use Dash as a funding option. Please let us know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Here's the full announcement: http://about.bitwa.la/bitwala-accepting-all-major-cryptocurrencies/

Cheers
Jeff from bitwa.la

Grow your wealth by managing bitcoin, ether, and euros securely in one app. Spend instantly with your bank account and Visa card.

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July 18, 2016, 09:31:01 AM

We're happy and proud to announce that you can use Dash to make a bank transfer or top up your Bitwala Debit Card. This is made possible through our partnership with shapeshift. Bitwa.la is the first service to offer bank transfers and a debit card that is letting you use Dash as a funding option. Please let us know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Here's the full announcement: http://about.bitwa.la/bitwala-accepting-all-major-cryptocurrencies/

Cheers
Jeff from bitwa.la

I tested it yesterday, it worked! Took a few hours, but it worked!
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July 18, 2016, 09:39:18 AM

We're happy and proud to announce that you can use Dash to make a bank transfer or top up your Bitwala Debit Card. This is made possible through our partnership with shapeshift. Bitwa.la is the first service to offer bank transfers and a debit card that is letting you use Dash as a funding option. Please let us know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Here's the full announcement: http://about.bitwa.la/bitwala-accepting-all-major-cryptocurrencies/

Cheers
Jeff from bitwa.la

I tested it yesterday, it worked! Took a few hours, but it worked!

Glad to hear that! We're working on making the whole process faster, but sometimes it takes a little patience. Cheesy

Grow your wealth by managing bitcoin, ether, and euros securely in one app. Spend instantly with your bank account and Visa card.

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July 18, 2016, 10:04:19 AM

We're happy and proud to announce that you can use Dash to make a bank transfer or top up your Bitwala Debit Card. This is made possible through our partnership with shapeshift. Bitwa.la is the first service to offer bank transfers and a debit card that is letting you use Dash as a funding option. Please let us know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Here's the full announcement: http://about.bitwa.la/bitwala-accepting-all-major-cryptocurrencies/

Cheers
Jeff from bitwa.la
I tested it yesterday, it worked! Took a few hours, but it worked!
Glad to hear that! We're working on making the whole process faster, but sometimes it takes a little patience. Cheesy

awesome that make a simple transactions anyways site look good and easy to use smart Partners good job.sorry actually now is first time i see you site Wink
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July 18, 2016, 11:08:53 AM


Anyone want out ? Here's your chance.






Cant see it now - was it taken down?
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