[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[oblox]

ok I have voiced my concerns and im not going to spend my night arguing this point.
The reason the top 100 wallets have not setup their nodes is exactly because it is work and technical abilities are required.

Which I think is a good thing because that detorres people from becoming a Mega Mn operator ..

I see that as a good thing for the decentralisation aspect of the coin.

I thought that one person having 50 nodes was bad enough as it is..

Then wait till it is even more profitable to run one. See what happens regardless of this feature.

Setting up a masternode isn't technically difficult. There are easy to follow, line by line guides that will get you to the finish line without too much hassle. If you can use the internet, you can setup a masternode.

Still you are not addressing the issue im trying to point out to you guys .. This is not a issue of convenience, it is a security issue.

How can you trust a network that is run mostly by a small number of people ? .. we need allot of small ops

Did anyone ask Atlas what he thought of this ?
or any security expert ... you guys must see this

You're more than welcome to get the horn and tell everyone to buy 1k coin blocks to setup masternodes. So far, the largest investors continue to do so. If you're paranoid, run multiple rounds and further, I believe there is an option to at least run darksend through one of your own masternodes of your choosing. Whether or not this was removed from the test period I do not know.

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[defunctec]

ok I have voiced my concerns and im not going to spend my night arguing this point.
The reason the top 100 wallets have not setup their nodes is exactly because it is work and technical abilities are required.

Which I think is a good thing because that detorres people from becoming a Mega Mn operator ..

I see that as a good thing for the decentralisation aspect of the coin.

I thought that one person having 50 nodes was bad enough as it is..

Then wait till it is even more profitable to run one. See what happens regardless of this feature.

Setting up a masternode isn't technically difficult. There are easy to follow, line by line guides that will get you to the finish line without too much hassle. If you can use the internet, you can setup a masternode.

Still you are not addressing the issue im trying to point out to you guys .. This is not a issue of convenience, it is a security issue.

How can you trust a network that is run mostly by a small number of people ? .. we need allot of small ops

Did anyone ask Atlas what he thought of this ?
or any security expert ... you guys must see this

Say the 400k wallet wanted 400 MN's. He would still have to set up individual instances, add darkcoind to each server, set up payment.

Its still allot of work, all this feature does is adds ease to the MN ops, still lots of work involved.

[Minotaur26]

ok I have voiced my concerns and im not going to spend my night arguing this point.
The reason the top 100 wallets have not setup their nodes is exactly because it is work and technical abilities are required.

Which I think is a good thing because that detorres people from becoming a Mega Mn operator ..

I see that as a good thing for the decentralisation aspect of the coin.

I thought that one person having 50 nodes was bad enough as it is..

Then wait till it is even more profitable to run one. See what happens regardless of this feature.

Setting up a masternode isn't technically difficult. There are easy to follow, line by line guides that will get you to the finish line without too much hassle. If you can use the internet, you can setup a masternode.

Still you are not addressing the issue im trying to point out to you guys .. This is not a issue of convenience, it is a security issue.

How can you trust a network that is run mostly by a small number of people ? .. we need allot of small ops

Did anyone ask Atlas what he thought of this ?
or any security expert ... you guys must see this

The thing is your point is unrelated to the new feature that helps start multiple masternodes more easily. The number of masternodes a person can run is only limited to the amount of coins each person has not to how convenient or inconvenient it is to start a node.  Making it easier to start nodes is good for everybody even if you are only running 3 nodes.

Incentivizing small operators could be acomplished by implementing trustless masternode pooling for example not by making running a node unnecessarily complex.

[Icebucket]

ok if you are all fine with this then so be it .. hopefully this will turn out to be a good thing
Just voicing my concerns becourse i care..

[thelonecrouton]

ok I have voiced my concerns and im not going to spend my night arguing this point.
The reason the top 100 wallets have not setup their nodes is exactly because it is work and technical abilities are required.

Which I think is a good thing because that detorres people from becoming a Mega Mn operator ..

I see that as a good thing for the decentralisation aspect of the coin.

I thought that one person having 50 nodes was bad enough as it is..

Then wait till it is even more profitable to run one. See what happens regardless of this feature.

Setting up a masternode isn't technically difficult. There are easy to follow, line by line guides that will get you to the finish line without too much hassle. If you can use the internet, you can setup a masternode.

Still you are not addressing the issue im trying to point out to you guys .. This is not a issue of convenience, it is a security issue.

How can you trust a network that is run mostly by a small number of people ? .. we need allot of small ops

Did anyone ask Atlas what he thought of this ?
or any security expert ... you guys must see this

Why are you not directing the same concern to the horrible centralisation that exists in is mining? There are no more than 3-5 people for most coins who, if they chose or were coerced, could ruin, at least temporarily, that coin. Including DRK - 3 pools make up >51% of the hashrate.

Miners in the form of big pools are several orders of magnitude more of a threat than Masternodes in the hands of a few, because Masternodes are chosen randomly each block from the whole set. Go do the math, or read any one of my many posts explaining it.

edit: If a random subset of miners were chosen each block too, that would do away with the mining centralisation issue... but so would making p2pool mandatory, or integrating pools and Masternodes... but nobody seems very interested apparently in addressing the great big fucking liability that mining in its current form presents.

[Icebucket]

guys .. only love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWlKZ6C7cDY&list=FL7P46taO0CdI8Gy44P1X2yA

[Propulsion]

Still you are not addressing the issue im trying to point out to you guys .. This is not a issue of convenience, it is a security issue.

How can you trust a network that is run mostly by a small number of people ? .. we need allot of small ops

Did anyone ask Atlas what he thought of this ?
or any security expert ... you guys must see this

This doesn't change the distribution of the network at all though.

If one person has enough for two MN's or ten, this just makes it easier for the person to setup.

They would still be required to have two or ten separate static ip's or dedicated servers for each MN.

Here's an analogy: if Bob has ten separate outlook email accounts, and receives email at all the accounts, instead of individually logging into each account to check his mail, he just makes an inbox with all account inboxes together.

The only thing this does it make it easier to check his mail but he still has the ten separate email accounts. No more or less email is being checked compared to logging into each account individually. Same amount of email for the accounts, only easier to check.

[splawik21]

I know that Im pissing up to the wind here, trying to reason with top wallets. But try to be objective.

don`t you think that if they would like they could have setup it in the past already...why didn`t they?
There is still a lot to do on the remote part but lets be honest Ice... if a whale has a cash to buy so much drkcoins don`t you think that he will pay someone else to setup his MNs if he is not capable to do it alone?
They didn`t create and I don`t think they will even with start-many

[Icebucket]

I know that Im pissing up to the wind here, trying to reason with top wallets. But try to be objective.

don`t you think that if they would like they could have setup it in the past already...why didn`t they?
There is still a lot to do on the remote part but lets be honest Ice... if a whale has a cash to buy so much drkcoins don`t you think that he will pay someone else to setup his MNs if he is not capable to do it alone?
They didn`t create and I don`t think they will even with start-many

Im done splawik.. I could give you some rant but I wont. Lets just see what happens 

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

It is literally impossible to make everyone happy all the time. If the Dalai Lama snapped his fingers and ended world hunger and everyone received all the food they every wished for, Maruchan Ramen noodles would suddenly go out of business and everyone that worked for them would lose their jobs and be super pissed. Its a convoluted and retarded point, but you get my gist.

[Cryptosis]

I know that Im pissing up to the wind here, trying to reason with top wallets. But try to be objective.

don`t you think that if they would like they could have setup it in the past already...why didn`t they?
There is still a lot to do on the remote part but lets be honest Ice... if a whale has a cash to buy so much drkcoins don`t you think that he will pay someone else to setup his MNs if he is not capable to do it alone?
They didn`t create and I don`t think they will even with start-many

If a whale has that many coins Im sure the few DRK he'd earn from a masternode would not intrest him being it would tie up his funds to basically earn little. Then agian what the hell do I know basically very little

[UdjinM6]

It's not that hard to start many masternodes even now (.15.13) - just use bash to implement what start-many does

Code:

> ls
loop.sh		masternodes

Code:

> ls masternodes/
1.conf	1.dat	2.conf	2.dat	3.conf	3.dat

and that loop.sh script could look like this:

Code:

#!/bin/bash
#### .conf and .dat files must have the same name
masternodesDir="masternodes"
configs="$masternodesDir/*.conf"
echo "Starting masternodes..."
## darkcoind stop
read -s -p "Enter your wallet passphrase:" mySuperSecretPassphrase
echo ""
for conf in $configs
do
  echo "Processing $conf..."
  wallet="${conf##*/}"
  wallet="$masternodesDir/${wallet%%.conf}.dat"
  echo "... and corresponding wallet $wallet"
  # cp $conf ~/.darkcoin/darkcoin.conf
  # cp $wallet ~/.darkcoin/wallet.dat
  # darkcoind
  # sleep 20
  # darkcoind passphrase $mySuperSecretPassphrase 999999
  # darkcoind masternode start
  # darkcoind stop
  # sleep 2
  echo "Done"
done
## darkcoind
echo "Yay!"

remove "# " and have fun

Code:

> ./loop.sh
Starting masternodes...
Enter your wallet passphrase:
Processing masternodes/1.conf...
... and corresponding wallet masternodes/1.dat
Done
Processing masternodes/2.conf...
... and corresponding wallet masternodes/2.dat
Done
Processing masternodes/3.conf...
... and corresponding wallet masternodes/3.dat
Done
Yay!

(you'll get some more output from darkcoind daemon too but for the sake of simplicity I ran it commented just to show the idea)
Yes, it will take more time to start masternodes that way but at the end it doesn't really matter (or if it does you could split masternode files between few machines, use -datadir option and so on)

And it's really only one time job.

[RenegadeMan]

It is literally impossible to make everyone happy all the time. If the Dalai Lama snapped his fingers and ended world hunger and everyone received all the food they every wished for, Maruchan Ramen noodles would suddenly go out of business and everyone that worked for them would lose their jobs and be super pissed. Its a convoluted and retarded point, but you get my gist.

convoluted and retarded points are so very necessary sometimes....

I understand where you're coming from Icebucket and I do know how frustrating it can be to hold a view that no one seems to "get". But on this occasion I think the views people are expressing in response to you are pretty sound. You're expressing yourself like this feature allowing ease to start multiple MNs is somehow the opening of a pandora's box for massive centralisation and bulk acquisition of the MN network by just a few large coin holders that previously wouldn't have even considered running MNs. I don't think that's the case. It's an ease-of-admin feature that's hardly going to open flood gates and (purely by way of its release) suddenly result in the MN numbers rapidly doubling or tripling with the bulk of them now operated by just a few actors.

It's a good development to help strengthen the MN network by negating keying errors and problems during admin.

[tungfa]

New Exploit?

I just noticed some strange things going on with this masternode address http://drk.poolhash.org/masternode.html?srch&nmstr=Xgyie615vTpBNmR2Nz7Z17GoAAcQLJfugm

He get paid very often with this "innmlist" under payee, that normally should belong to another adress I guess. He also "stole" a payment from me. He got 23! payments today only.

Hopefully flare's newfangled multi-Masternode wallet. There's 19000DRK been through that address today.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/address.dws?Xgyie615vTpBNmR2Nz7Z17GoAAcQLJfugm.htm

19 masternodes on one address. It works with the new start-many branch

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/address.dws?Xgyie615vTpBNmR2Nz7Z17GoAAcQLJfugm.htm

What is the point of "start many"? One can more easily take profit from holding lots of darkcoins, but having different addresses and different servers looks more stronger for darksend, even though that servers have one owner, isn't it?

Agree,.. this is a really really really bad Idea.. What happens if the richest wallet opens a MN ?? .. no payment for the rest of us for months ?
And those timestamps on that wallet are somewhat suspicious, even if these are 19 mn rolled up to one... I go sometimes 3-7 days without payment

Not a happy camper  

Ugh... the new reference nodes makes sure the others are paid as evenly as possible...

There is no fundamental difference to the masternode setup other than convenience of having a single wallet and single config file.

I just think this is dangerous... If the top wallets can run Mns with such ease, is that not a threat to the decentralized idea behind the coin ?
Just the top 5 wallets would control 1138 nodes

How is that ANY different than him splitting his wallet into 1000 coin address? It has been a well known fact the rich list could run a large number of nodes at any given time if they wanted.

This will benefit very few people at the expense of the many.. The top 100+ wallets have not fired up nodes but im shure they will now ... but all those new nodes will come from so few people ... this is a security issue in my eyes ... I will benefit because I run quite a few Mn´s but I think this is playing with fire.

Isn't that what we wanted !?
more MN's to secure the network ? so no need to fear good when the numbers
finally go up, from big bag holders or small once, at least let the numbers
rise it will even out eventually ! none of the big big guys is gonna dump
everything into M n's, you know how much work that would be even with the
new multiple wallet setup !
relax and let it happen for now !
we are still around 600 and lets get above a 1000 soon hopefully !!

[thelonecrouton]

It's not that hard to start many masternodes even now (.15.13) - just use bash to implement what start-many does

Code:

>bash!

No, no, you don't understand! The world will come to an end if people who can't write their own scripts have just one command to run! Overnight there will be ten thousand Masternodes and I will have to live on dog food and rainwater and it never rains here! There will only be a trillion duffs left, this lack of liquidity will make my legs drop off and the market will collapse! Panic like fuck and shit your pants!

[UdjinM6]

It's not that hard to start many masternodes even now (.15.13) - just use bash to implement what start-many does

Code:

>bash!

No, no, you don't understand! The world will come to an end if people who can't write their own scripts have just one command to run! Overnight there will be ten thousand Masternodes and I will have to live on dog food and rainwater and it never rains here! There will only be a trillion duffs left, this lack of liquidity will make my legs drop off and the market will collapse! Panic like fuck and shit your pants!

But what if people who can't write scripts hire people who can write scripts... Oh, wait...

[roede94105]

I know that Im pissing up to the wind here, trying to reason with top wallets. But try to be objective.

don`t you think that if they would like they could have setup it in the past already...why didn`t they?
There is still a lot to do on the remote part but lets be honest Ice... if a whale has a cash to buy so much drkcoins don`t you think that he will pay someone else to setup his MNs if he is not capable to do it alone?
They didn`t create and I don`t think they will even with start-many

Im done splawik.. I could give you some rant but I wont. Lets just see what happens 

How come no one realizes his concern is simply about the fear of someone holding, say, 40% of the MN network on his own?

[oblox]

I know that Im pissing up to the wind here, trying to reason with top wallets. But try to be objective.

don`t you think that if they would like they could have setup it in the past already...why didn`t they?
There is still a lot to do on the remote part but lets be honest Ice... if a whale has a cash to buy so much drkcoins don`t you think that he will pay someone else to setup his MNs if he is not capable to do it alone?
They didn`t create and I don`t think they will even with start-many

Im done splawik.. I could give you some rant but I wont. Lets just see what happens  

How come no one realizes his concern is simply about the fear of someone holding, say, 40% of the MN network on his own?

We do, but it's no different than when masternodes as an idea came out back in April/May timeperiod. The top holders still had substantial amounts of coins. Bringing it up today like it magically became an issue overnight is absurd.

[roede94105]

I know that Im pissing up to the wind here, trying to reason with top wallets. But try to be objective.

don`t you think that if they would like they could have setup it in the past already...why didn`t they?
There is still a lot to do on the remote part but lets be honest Ice... if a whale has a cash to buy so much drkcoins don`t you think that he will pay someone else to setup his MNs if he is not capable to do it alone?
They didn`t create and I don`t think they will even with start-many

Im done splawik.. I could give you some rant but I wont. Lets just see what happens  

How come no one realizes his concern is simply about the fear of someone holding, say, 40% of the MN network on his own?

We do, but it's no different than when masternodes as an idea came out back in April/May timeperiod. The top holders still had substantial amounts of coins. Bringing it up today like it magically became an issue overnight is absurd.

I agree, but just look at Camosoul for instance, HE said he would finally setup MNs thanks to the new system, and that he did not do it before because of the extra hassle. That might have triggered his reasoning.

So Icebucket is not COMPLETELY wrong either, is he?

I'm not concerned as he is about all this, I'm just a bit frustrated that so very few (only you and a couple others) understood his concerns over 2-3 thread pages


EDIT: And even if it's absurd to bring it now, no one answered why it's no big deal if someone owns, for instance, 45% of the MN network in the last pages. This would have solved any and all discussion.

[thelonecrouton]

EDIT: And even if it's absurd to bring it now, no one answered why it's no big deal if someone owns, for instance, 45% of the MN network in the last pages. This would have solved any and all discussion.

Hello?

Why are you not directing the same concern to the horrible centralisation that exists in is mining? There are no more than 3-5 people for most coins who, if they chose or were coerced, could ruin, at least temporarily, that coin. Including DRK - 3 pools make up >51% of the hashrate.

Miners in the form of big pools are several orders of magnitude more of a threat than Masternodes in the hands of a few, because Masternodes are chosen randomly each block from the whole set. Go do the math, or read any one of my many posts explaining it.

edit: If a random subset of miners were chosen each block too, that would do away with the mining centralisation issue... but so would making p2pool mandatory, or integrating pools and Masternodes... but nobody seems very interested apparently in addressing the great big fucking liability that mining in its current form presents.

Masternodes: Chances of successful attack = (rogue nodes/total nodes)^number of masternodes involved, eg if a transaction goes through 8 random nodes, and 51% of the network is compromised, chances of successful attack = 0.457%

Miners: Chances of successful attack = 100% if one bloc controls >50% of network. Currently 3 pools control > 52%.

0.457% vs. 100%

Yeah, it isn't a strictly apples to apples comparison, but you get the gist.

Icebucket's concerns are pointed in the wrong direction.