[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[MasterMined710]

I do not see Bitcoin as "The One" and I haven't for a long time. Bitcoin was a brilliant start, and Evan is undoubtedly standing on the shoulders of giants. But Bitcoin has too many problems to allow it to "take over." The *only* advantage that Bitcoin has over Dash is its network effect. I admit that network effects are difficult to overcome, but consider:

1) Bitcoin is too slow to use in person-to-person transactions.
2) Bitcoin's fees are too high for it to be used for micropayments.
3) Bitcoin doesn't scale past 7 TPS.
4) Bitcoin's blockchain is huge and it's unlikely to be pruned due to consensus issues.
5) Bitcoin has a very high level of infighting and it's nearly impossible to achieve consensus. As Tok pointed out earlier, the only consensus in the Bitcoin community is that it should be left alone and never changed, updated, improved, or fixed.
6) Bitcoin nodes are disappearing at an alarming rate because they aren't incentivized.
7) Bitcoin's consensus mechanism is under constant risk of attack. Collusion of just two pools would allow double-spends.
Long-standing issues like transaction malleability still have not been cleared up, and there's no sign that Bitcoin developers have any interest in fixing them.
9) Bitcoin's governance model is deeply flawed. Funding comes from centralized sources (Foundation and MIT) and governance is dangerously fragmented between often-hostile devs.
10) Bitcoin is and always will be traceable. People don't want the world knowing the details of their finances, and as more people move into crypto this will become a bigger and bigger issue. "You mean everybody can see how much money I have and where I sent it if they know my address?"
11) Bitcoin devs and maximists have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to accept that Bitcoin might not be the solution for everything. It's analogous to the situation in World War II when Japanese admirals were too scared or proud to report their actual losses, and so their high command kept making decisions based on incorrect information.
12) Centralization and censorship in the community. Theymos has managed to grab ownership of BCT and the subreddit and regularly censors any voices he disagrees with (case-in-point: anyone who talked about Bitcoin-XT).
13) Bitcoin is complicated to use and understand for a neophite. We all remember how long it took us to fully wrap our heads around everything.

Dash already solves many of these problems, and Dash Evolution will solve the rest of them:

1) Dash has InstantX, which allows transactions to be fully confirmed in about four seconds.
2) Dash Evolution apparently has no fees (information from the slide).
3) Dash Evolution will scale to 1500+ TPS.
4) Dash Evolution is likely to use pruning at some point (Evan has spoken about this before and says pruning is definitely possible).
5) Dash enables masternode owners to vote and express their opinions in a binding fashion using the decentralized budgeting system.
6) Dash nodes (masternodes) are incentivized and the number grows daily. The growth will eventually taper, but there is very little chance of numbers declining due to the significant incentivization.
7) Dash Evolution will have a confirmationless wallet using InstantX locks for all transactions. Even if one entity gets 51% or more of the network's hash power, it will be impossible to double-spend.
Dash developers regularly incorporate fixes as the problems are discovered. A great example of this was the "dead change" issue that Aswan discovered last year. It was fixed very rapidly.
9) Dash uses Decentralized Governance by Blockchain to enforce good governance and to pay developers directly from the blockchain. It's decentralized and trustless.
10) Dash users have the option of using Darksend to anonymize their transactions, and Dash Evolution will build this anonymity into the protocol itself, making all transactions anonymous by default.
11) Dash regularly incorporates new ideas from the community and from other cryptos, or even from the trolls in our own community. Evan has actually said that many of his best ideas came from the arguments trolls were trying to use against us.
12) This thread is unmoderated, and Dashtalk, while moderated, has no history of censorship.
13) Dash Evolution will be using a decentralized API to make the network trivial to use for newbies (information comes from presentation slide...I don't know how this works yet, but I do know that Evan has previously said that making Dash easy to use was a priority).

Bitcoin = Myspace
DASH = Facebook

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[Solarminer]

Anyone got any other testable predictions in line with this reasoning?

If this is it we can dispense with the reasons and just watch bitcoin and, say the top 5 alts and look for alt transaction volume increasing coinciding with a decline or stagnation in bitcoin transaction volume. Dash and litecoin should be on the list, but not ripple I think. Is bitshares even trying to be a currency? What do you guys think are the true top 5 alts?

What about monetary priorities ?

The properties of money are well understood - whether it's a rock, a piece of paper or an uncounterfeitable electronic token. Why do people never hold cryptocurrencies to account against the properties of money ?

[ANSWER: Because nobody has a clue what the properties of money are.]

In answer to your question about Bitshares let me say this to try to put things into perspective: There are two types of money:

[1] - real money ('cash', 'gold', etc)
[2] - credit money (IOU's)

Bitshares is a beautiful concept that resides in the [2] sphere. It is a decentralised bank and is not even attempting to do what bitcoin or dash is doing. Having said that, Bitshares does for banks what Dash does for gold: i,e, transports them to an electronic platform and decentralises the value proposition. Bitshares and Dash/Bitcoin are in totally different financial spheres. What Bitshares can do is stabilise an elastic currency in the way regular banks do today, except in a decentralised way without a trusted counterparty. I have no doubt that Bitshares (or something like it) is going to mop up the credit market. To see that, just look at how well it has pegged its BitUSD asset to the US Dollar. Although the volume is paultry, the peg has worked and it is a 'real' peg. (In other words, traders value the BitUSD asset at parity with the dollar, even though the BitUSD is backed by BTS shares while the US Dollar is backed by the US government. To me, that is a huge achievement. Almost no-one realises the implications of that achievement. [I do and am invested appropriately] ).

Dash - on the other hand - resides in the [1] sphere. It is a base monetary token as opposed to a credit derivative (as BitUSD is) or derivative collateral (as BTS is). The innovation of bitcoin wasn't to be anything sophisticated, it was to be simply an un-counterfeitable token that could be passed around. That is actually pretty difficult on an electronic platform because of copy-paste capabilities. Anything that could defy copy-paste was instantly going to be a huge candidate for a new monetary medium. So bitcoin was it.

But what competitors does bitcoin realistically have ?

Only 3: Litecoin, Dash and Peercoin.

I dumped my Litecoin ages ago because it doesn't really have any distinctive economic policy.

That isn't the case for Peercoin or Dash. Peercoin is one of the great manifestations of cryptocurrency IMO. Its designer was far more concerned with the properties of money and economics than any near term valuation. It is a coin way ahead of its time but which may still pull through and fulfil its intended role as a trunk transport for a future decentralised financial system. I thought it was dead after last year's alt-coin carnage but then noticed it had survived the turmoil and decided it now had a long term future. Put it this way. If cryptocurrencies ever get anywhere such that the mainstream economy has to depend on them, you'll be able to retire on one Peercoin.

In Dash's case the monetary case is academic. There is no bitcion compatible clone that is turning delayed transactions into instant, turning unfungible address "lumps" into anonymous ones, and attaching a "rudder" to the rudderless ship that is decentralised money.

Whatever you think about any other cryptocurrency strategically, none of them - even bitcoin- are remotely as adoptable as Dash. In any economy, there is always a space for cash. But cash has to be instant, whether it's $1 million  or $1 dollar you're transferring. Would you accept a million dollars with 1 only confirmation ? By definition, cash works independently of the amount being transacted. That 1 fact disqualifies bitcoin and qualifies Dash.

Great post.

I have been using different terms than you(specifically switching debt and credit).  This is actually quite involved, and interesting.  I will clarify here:

[A] - credit base currency (gold, silver, bitcoin, dash, etc)
[B] - credit based fiat currency (coins, US notes)
[C] - debt based fiat currency (dollar bills(federal reserve notes), bank deposits)
[D] - derivatives of assets/fiat(bonds, stocks, bitshares, BitUSD)
[E] - derivatives of derivatives(mutual funds)

A dollar bill, or more accurately a federal reserve note, is actually a promise to pay 1 US note.  A dollar bill is actually a debt instrument(IOU) whereas US notes are redeemable for gold or silver.  We stopped using US notes in 1971.  Cash is considered both dollar bills and coins.  But the only cash we use that is not a debt instrument is coins because it is made by the US mint(not loaned from the federal reserve).

As you move closer to [E], the risk gets higher.  You are more likely to lose money holding a mutual fund(fraud, manager fees, stock devaluing, etc) then holding gold(over the long term).

Dollar bills can be counterfeited.  So just like waiting for an extra confirmation, you can get a pen out to see if they are real, or hold to the light to see anti-counterfeit features.  Or with gold - use a test solution.  You would expect to wait a little longer for a large transaction to make sure it is legit.

The key is that real value is stored in [A]  They can't be created from nothing, are limited, and are fungible(probably not bitcoin).  The other products will start to lose value as we start hitting global resource constraints or this global fiat debt bubble.  We will see markets for certain things fall and seeming unrelated financial failures happen.  It, eventually, will be obvious that moving to [A] is necessary to store wealth and even transact in the economy.  DASH is already the easiest of this class to use.

[Sub-Ether]

http://blog.coinkite.com/post/130318407326/ongoing-bitcoin-malleability-attack-low-s-high
The modification that’s being made to the transactions is well understood and isn’t new: it is a simple numeric tweak to one number (S) in the ECDSA signature. It’s documented as part of BIP62 and is called the “low S” requirement. Coinkite always uses the lower S value, but these pranksters have been replacing that with the higher S value.

Transactions are being changed without any knowledge of the private keys involved. The change does not affect the source, destination, or amounts of the funds, so it isn’t obvious when it first happens.

.. Once you send a transaction, you need to understand that your transaction might actually get into a block under a different hash...

[qwizzie]

Maybe its time for Evan or Tungfa to start cleaning up some of the Google search results :



If you look at Google's Search History removal policies we have room to manouvre i think :

https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2744324?hl=en

Removal Policies


We want to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible, but there are a few instances where we will remove content from Search.

Legal Removals

We remove content from our search results if it includes:
•Child sexual abuse imagery
•We also remove content in response to valid legal requests, such as copyright notifications that meet the requirements of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

Maybe we can ask the Dash foundation (who is helping Dash on legal areas) for legal advice on how to take appropriate action ?
What should be removed when using google search with these two reference words "dash crypto" is :

anything with SCAM in it --> directly attacks the reputation of Dash
anything that links it to Dashcoin --> causes confusion for those people explicitly searching for Dash and not Dashcoin  

 


 
 

[Macrochip]

Shouldn't we rather focus on improving the Wikipedia entry for Dash? Look at it: It's an ugly construction site right now. Serious investors will always prefer reading Wikipedia than the insane ramblings of a random forum-lunatic. Plus legal proceedings against free speech (as stupid as that speech might be) never look good.

Btw: I think people will rather google "Dash currency" (which delivers much better results) than "Dash crypto"

[stealth923]

Maybe its time for Evan or Tungfa to start cleaning up some of the Google search results :

If you look at Google's Search History removal policies we have room to manouvre i think :

https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2744324?hl=en

Removal Policies

We want to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible, but there are a few instances where we will remove content from Search.

Legal Removals

We remove content from our search results if it includes:
•Child sexual abuse imagery
•We also remove content in response to valid legal requests, such as copyright notifications that meet the requirements of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

Maybe we can ask the Dash foundation (who is helping Dash on legal areas) for legal advice on how to take appropriate action ?
What should be removed when using google search with these two reference words "dash crypto" is :

anything with SCAM in it --> directly attacks the reputation of Dash
anything that links it to Dashcoin --> causes confusion for those people explicitly searching for Dash and not Dashcoin  

This is why I keep harping on about marketing. There is so much to do on so many fronts. The entire monthly budget (excluding devs team cut) needs to be expended on marketing. This is where Dash is lacking the most. There is probably 10x more work to do in this space then even coding evolution twice over.

Right now this is the biggest risk for me and if I will keep my investment long term or not.

We have a great product. At the moment we are all holding hands in a remote forest hoping that everyone finds us.

[crowning]

Maybe its time for Evan or Tungfa to start cleaning up some of the Google search results :

Just post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1205043.0

Knowing how the Google index works this will change the result 

[Jestah]

Maybe its time for Evan or Tungfa to start cleaning up some of the Google search results :

Is it just me or should we start scam topic discussions on the coins our trolls love?  It seems fine for DASH, why not the others?

[Jestah]

Whatever you said there....ignored, doesn't matter.  Thanks for the bumps in our DASH ANN thread.  "Monero (XMR) SCAM - HASHFast Fraud SCAM Prison looming".   That sure would look purty in Google alongside of their $99 logo contest.

[Lukas_Jackson]

There are only few individuals who keep posts about Dash in negative way. One is known hashfast scammer iCEBREAKER, second one is quite stupid and is not willing to learn from his mistakes, AdamWhite. And they both come from one cryptonote coin.
The rest are just their new puppet accounts.

[dashwhale]

New masternode incidents feature

We just released the new masternode incidents feature. It is a history of the critical downtimes of your masternodes including the date and duration. This is very helpful in a variety of situations including quality assurance of external masternode hosting services.

Dashwhale budget proposal

We just submitted the proposal to cover basic Dashwhale operations. We want to keep this site and it's features open for everybody, avoiding a regular subscription model. You'll find detailed information and discussion on the proposal page:

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/dashwhale-basic

I am happy to take further questions.

Best,
Rango

Manual voting: mnbudget vote-many 4f8b12279629b8126ba7b1a378cd3ef6e3bb88d7fb04cb6db424edf4c95f6780 yes / no

[toknormal]

New masternode incidents feature

Outstanding work you guys are doing.

What a fantastic service.

[Jestah]

Dashwhale budget proposal

We just submitted the proposal to cover basic Dashwhale operations. We want to keep this site and it's features open for everybody, avoiding a regular subscription model. You'll find detailed information and discussion on the proposal page:
Manual voting: mnbudget vote-many 4f8b12279629b8126ba7b1a378cd3ef6e3bb88d7fb04cb6db424edf4c95f6780 yes / no

It's an awesome site, however you weren't asked to build it and as an MN owner I very rarely refer to it.  Only 1/6 of the MNS are even there.   These little personal projects should be paid for by people who want to use them IMHO.  Your proposal is 160 dash/mo for 7 months for your service, what happens after those 7 months and you made an MN from it?  A new bigger proposal when this one runs out?  You pay under $20/mo USD for hosting, at current conversion rates it's $375.  To me it seems you might be looking for a salary.     

These are the types of proposals I was worried we will see.  I'd rather see ninja's site get funded than one that just popped up.

Sorry for being a downer, but no thank you.

[qwizzie]

i think Dashninja site owner should also put forward a budget proposal to help with the costs,
thats the site i most use .. unless it gets compensated already somehow ?
(last thing i know is that its running on donations)

 

[the-baker]

It's an awesome site, however you weren't asked to build it and as an MN owner I very rarely refer to it.  Only 1/6 of the MNS are even there.   These little personal projects should be paid for by people who want to use them IMHO.  Your proposal is 160 dash/mo for 7 months for your service, what happens after those 7 months and you made an MN from it?  A new bigger proposal when this one runs out?  You pay under $20/mo USD for hosting, at current conversion rates it's $375.  To me it seems you might be looking for a salary.     

These are the types of proposals I was worried we will see.  I'd rather see ninja's site get funded than one that just popped up.

Sorry for being a downer, but no thank you.

Well, Evan himself set the example by asking for reimbursements on money he had already spent in one of the first budget proposals. Besides, what he's asking is nowhere near enough for covering all the dev costs, let alone generate a profit. Besides, isn't it better to vote on an existing site than on something that exists only in mockups? In other words, build first and vote later seems like a strategy to encourage. I'm not saying you should vote yes, but the proposal itself doesn't seem outlandish

[dashwhale]

Jestah, i appreciate your honest words. Let me address some of your concerns:

1. 6 month is a clear timeframe, that everybody can oversee and is able to commit to. After that 6 month, we can all evaluate again and check, if this site provides enough benefit to our community to justify funding or if there there is even a business model for this site to survive without a proposal and without subscriptions.

2. The 160 DASH cover hosting (dedicated server with DDoS protection), geographical independent backup, external website monitoring service and at least 5 manhours per month, to keep this site up and running safely. You don't get >5h manpower and hosting of high quality for 150 bucks.

3. Dashwhale is 2 month old and 524 masternodes are registered. That's great progress so far. Few of the known large masternode owners use the platform, but did not register all their masternodes. So it's safe to say that masternode owners responsible for 40% of all masternodes are registered at Dashwhale.


So what's is the benefit for all masternode owners (even those which don't need voting or monitoring) now and in the future?

The amount of 2-5 proposals per month will rise steadily in the near future. We will end up with a hardly to cope amount of budget proposals. Do we want to post single proposal threads in multiple forums where all information gets lost? Or do we want to have one place, where all proposal information is displayed and we can directly discuss these proposals. All proposals nicely structured, ranked by interest to facilitate serious judgement of every proposal by every masternode owner? Also by mobile apps?

We need a solution for these issues. If you guys think, Dashwhale is the right solution for this, please cast your vote!

Best,
Rango

[letsBeFair]

Dashwhale budget proposal

We just submitted the proposal to cover basic Dashwhale operations. We want to keep this site and it's features open for everybody, avoiding a regular subscription model. You'll find detailed information and discussion on the proposal page:
Manual voting: mnbudget vote-many 4f8b12279629b8126ba7b1a378cd3ef6e3bb88d7fb04cb6db424edf4c95f6780 yes / no

It's an awesome site, however you weren't asked to build it and as an MN owner I very rarely refer to it.  Only 1/6 of the MNS are even there.   These little personal projects should be paid for by people who want to use them IMHO.  Your proposal is 160 dash/mo for 7 months for your service, what happens after those 7 months and you made an MN from it?  A new bigger proposal when this one runs out?  You pay under $20/mo USD for hosting, at current conversion rates it's $375.  To me it seems you might be looking for a salary.    

These are the types of proposals I was worried we will see.  I'd rather see ninja's site get funded than one that just popped up.

Sorry for being a downer, but no thank you.

Oh, c'mon guys, let's be fair. It is not a matter of "you" use the service or not.

you weren't asked to build it

??

They are doing a great work, very useful to DASH:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2gvogef.jpg

It's an awesome site, however you weren't asked to build it and as an MN owner I very rarely refer to it.  Only 1/6 of the MNS are even there.   These little personal projects should be paid for by people who want to use them IMHO.

Sure, but, is the DASH community willing to give the donations?

These are the types of proposals I was worried we will see.  I'd rather see ninja's site get funded than one that just popped up.

Why the worry?

They have the right to submit the proposal. They deserve the remunaration. Now it is the community to chose if they want to fund it or not (by means of blockchain funding or by means of enough donations). It will be the voters to decide.

The community must see that there's no free lunch...

[toknormal]

I'm just lurking and listening.

Valid points on both sides IMO.

But isn't this discussion better had on the Dashwhale site itself under the actual proposal ? That way the arguments can be heard by those actually voting.

[Jestah]

I'm just lurking and listening.

Valid points on both sides IMO.

But isn't this discussion better had on the Dashwhale site itself under the actual proposal ? That way the arguments can be heard by those actually voting.

People vote that aren't on that site......

[qwizzie]

feel free to check this Dash altcoin section on the new Bitcoin forum :

https://forum.bitcoin.com/dash-f67/

and if you are up to a little challenge check my last post there ...