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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722497 times)
TanteStefana2
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December 19, 2015, 04:36:47 AM

If Bitcoin goes the route of ETF's, Payment Channels, Sidechains and bank ownership (of large parts of the bitcoin supply) it will desroy the aspirations of this guy.

You can be sure as f*ck about that because that was what "The Cypherfunks" were fighting against. Sidechains, superstrcture payment channels or ETF's were never part of the Cypherfunk philosophy. Their philosophy was based on a unique electronic asset accessible to all NOT THROUGH SUPERSTRUCTURES.

You must think that Satoshi is likely to dump all his Bitcoins at some point then. I mean..from what we know of him, he definitely wouldn't like the direction that his invention is currently going in, would he?

I think he lost his private key Tongue

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Solarminer
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December 19, 2015, 05:40:59 AM

I've been reading the Evolution docs docs (in the park). Just started.

Having lived and worked through the eightees computer revolution I think I can save people a lot of time and effort in dissimilating Dash and Bitcoin.

Dash is Apple and Bitcoin is Microsoft. That will be the story from now on and the playout will be the same.

Apple had control of the software and hardware which meant that they could move faster than anyone else. They used this "total control" to build an ideal computing environment.

Meanwhile, IBM and microsoft played the "bitcoin game": Everyone was allowed to participate in the economy. Motherboards by X. IBM received a royalty on "X" while allowing everyone else to make them. Microsoft changed "PC-DOS" to "MS-DOS" and became the biggest tech company ever. cryptowas contracted out. Technology accounted for nothing. Adoption counted for everything..

Apple did not allow anyone to make anything Apple compatible. Just as Dash does not contract out its anonymisation technology. Dash masternodes only work on the Dash network. They don't work on any other network.

NOTE: Commercial priorities - Adoption vs Development. Dash think’s it’s garnering adoption through development but it isn’t. Bitcoin is garnering adoption through marketing, just as Microsoft did. Dash is'nt garnering any adoption and yet it's setting the precedent for the industry. Just as Apple did.

That is the challenge for Dash. IMO it is unlikely to meet that challenge. People do not buy technology, they buy need.

Right now, bitcoin is at the front door of "need" as far as crypto currencies go.

Apple Computer had a GUI operating system a full 10 years ahead of Microsoft. Think about that - it's a massive lead. They also had desktop publishing, native networking (Appletalk) and Fonts.

But Microsoft and IBM between them created an economy, because everyone could get a "piece of the action" - hardware manufacturers, software builders, alternate OS's like Linux, you name it. So the PC economy grew far larger despite the fact that Apple was leading the way the whole time. It was a kind of uneasy, competitive come co-operative relationship between the two technologies that ultimately was very productive for both.

Now lets turn to Dash and bitcoin.

Dash has created a second tier. It is not a literal tier - only a logic tier which is important to emphasise. However this tier is not a third party commercial tier as far as protocol goes. It is totally integrated with the Dash network protocol in the same way that Apple hardware was integrated with Apple software. This is going to give Dash a huge advantage technologically because it controls both tiers. The bitcoin economy will require all the same features that Dash had - and will get them. It's just that the secondary tier will be supported by third parties and technologies  such as Etherium blockchain apps, stock market ETF's, Coinbase, Sidechains etc. The resulting bitcoin economy will be huge for the same reason that the IBM/Microsoft economy was huge - i.e. loads of people can have a piece of the pie.

But it will also be ugly.

And thats the catch for investors. Both options are attractive for different reasons. When I read the Dash Evolution docs I suddenly encountered myself from 30 years ago: using an advanced technology that was about to not do justice to itself commercially.

Why ?...because it retained control of its own ecosystem, thereby leaving the field bare for others. Dash is showing the way. But only symbolically and on a prototype basis. The industrial equivalent of masternodes will have the entire crypto world running a commercially diverse second tier against a commercially diverse tier of store of value assets. How that economic model plays out is as yet ambiguous. Whats for sure is that all crypto assets will find a role - no one will dominate that business model.

Where Apple was back then is where Dash is now: in control of a symbolic equivalent of what the world-wide market is about to become.

The bitcoin economy will acquire the equivalent of masternodes, decentralised voting, anonymity, scaleability and everything that Dash has. It just won't develop it as a single technological unit. If you want privacy you'll buy through an ETF who will keep your contracts private for you. If you want scaleability you'll use payment channels which will end up being owned by Visa. If you want decentralised voting - forget it. There's no way an economy that size is going to leave policy to "the people".

Regarding the Apple/Microsoft legacy, the question for Dash investors is: How does this technological precedent apply to money ?


There are two answers to that: [1] a technological one. [2] - a financial one

A. Technology
To answer the technological one is easy. Bitcoin has already thrown in the towel on protocol development. Technologically it is parked and all future services will be taken up by third party support services such as Etherium apps, stock market ETF's (Winklevoss twins), banks using bitcoin as capital assets and proprietary payment channels that use the bitcion blockchain as simply a 'clearing' layer. In other words, Bitcoin is not going to fulfill Satoshi's vision - a store of value that could also function as a currency. Monetarily, the banks will turn it into what CDO's are: a capital asset that backs other capital assets that ultimately back fiat currency.

B. Capital
The question of Dash as a capital investment is far more open. Lets calculate Dash's marketcap as a proportion of bitcoin's.



Ask yourself this. If you really think Satoshi's vision of a fully integrated, self contained monetary medium is worth preserving, which approach does more justice to it ?

[1] - SIDECHAINS: a coders Frankensteinian boilerplate that has no historical precedence in monetary history which requires you to "bake" your bitcoin for a day or two to in order to "hide" it, thereby turning the "ghost" bitcoin market into a premium version of the original and thus destroying all pretences to fungibility that bitcoin ever had.

[2] - ETF's: the paper gold version of bitcoin

[3] - PAYMENT CHANNELS: Do you really think that the last 30 years of research into cryptography a la David Chaum were busting their a'ss's just so that their discovery could be proxied ?

No. They weren't. What those people were looking for was an electronic asset that could be traded DIRECTLY.

The only two people I've ever seen in this entire field who've understood that principle implicitly and that don't appear to be scared of censorship are Evan Duffield and Andreas Antonopolis. Notably, they are also two people who have never aligned themselves with any particular approach. That tells you all you need to know.

In all the time I've been observing this industry, I've never seen Evan make one single adverse remark towards an industry peer. The same with Antonopolis. He is tireless in his ability to articulate the philosophy of monetary integrity as Evan is tireless in his pursuit of monetary fidelity.

The test is whether it gets adopted.

Dash's precedent is Apple. Bitcoin's is Microsoft. Take your pick. I've already seen how this plays out got the T-Shirt, picked my side except this time it's going to be played out a lot faster , if for no other reason than it has the space to itself.

Sources:

Dash Paper: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IZYs5C6CmJyC4MqY_2P_WnPcxaea6yy6cFkorkStDBM/edit
MS Cap: https://ycharts.com/companies/MSFT/market_cap
Apple CAP: https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/market_cap
History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.
History: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/history#T1=era0

You people figure it out. The people always decide. Not us. No matter how great the technology.

This is a fantastic post.  Interesting comparison.

There is also a third animal in this fight: The fiat banking/credit card system.  If crytos can't do better than the fiat system today, then neither will get adopted.  

There are fundamental problems with bitcoin that won't let it reach full adoption.  Here is why:
Cost of transaction is too high.
  • What about the 3rd party combining transactions to lower bitcoin fees - this will incur an additional x% fee and slow down payments.
  • Block limit - as transaction reach the block limit the transaction cost increases - more adoption is not possible.
  • Increase Block Limit - node cost increases.  Additional fees apply to keep nodes operating.  Maybe subsidized by companies that use nodes most, coinbase,bitpay, etc.

And the most important: Speed of transactions is too slow
  • A ~10minute block for a confirmation is an impossible situation for retail adoption.
  • Bitcoin is stuck at 5 transactions/sec with current block size which isn't even able to handle US wire transfer volumes.
  • Adding a service like lightning might work, but then the trust relies in the owners of lightning.  - no better than visa/mastercard
  • Add a debit card loadable with bitcoins like coinbase/xapo are doing.  - this is no different than just using a debit card but more fees.

I don't see anyway for these two fundamental problems to get solved with Bitcoin.  Fixing one screws up the other.

Dash has the solution with Instantx and will have zero fees for consumers with Evolution.  It is a winner in every aspect.  

We have been doing testing with a Raspberry Pi and can receive InstantX transactions, confirm they are for the correct address, trigger a relay, and send change back in less time than you can blink an eye.  How is any bitclone, bank, credit card going to do that?  Even cash takes longer if you have to provide change.
TaoOfSaatoshi
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December 19, 2015, 07:27:47 AM

Best post ever...
New on DASHBlogs:

Tek Tok: AppleDash?



https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashisdigitalcash/dashblogs/

Honest Tim
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December 19, 2015, 10:46:11 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUYXzJkuAG0

Clif High's Wujo. If you've never taken an interest in the webbots, have a listen to Clif. Lots of stuff on Bitcoin and Silver.
EdvinZ
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December 19, 2015, 12:41:29 PM

Prototype Update: Thanks to @salmion for our new design  Wink



Looking great, but what does oaeu mean?

My keyboard is dvorak   Cheesy



I didn't even know that existed!  Wow, do you know how to use both types of keyboards?  if so, does it mess you up?  Cheesy

Still don't understand what oaeu means though.  Google isn't helping Tongue  LOL.  Anyway, love the new wallet layout and utilities, this is going to be truly awesome!

and LOL, otoh, truly we are

Kaspersky-antivirus contains a protected virtual keyboard. Advise Smiley

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December 19, 2015, 04:13:57 PM

Evening everyone, hope you are well  Grin
Tungfa asked what was the year on year return for Dash as compared to bitcoin and fiat, so I broke the abacus out and flicked some beads around.

January 1st, 2015

Dash = 0.006185 btc = $1.953
Bitcoin = $315.8
Dash per bitcoin = 161.7

December 19th, 2015

Dash = $2.63
Bitcoin = $462
Dash per bitcoin =175.7

Dash year on year price rise = +34.7 %

Funnily enough it just fits on this chart, how lucky,
https://dashtalk.org/threads/best-and-worst-performing-currencies-in-2015.7289/#post-76399

Edit: whoops this is out of date for bitcoin , its actually 46.7% at $462, better wait till next week and do it again  Wink

Dash is 27.3 times faster with syncing and updating than Bitcoin and 93.7 times faster than Monero. Bitcoin (v0.11.0) has a Tao ratio 11.2% faster than bitcoin (v0.10.0) release.
Dash (v.0.12.0.49) = Tao sync ratio = 0.15 seconds / hour of update || Dash (v.0.11.2.23) = Tao sync ratio = 0.24 seconds / hour of update. V12 versus V11 speedup = +36.5%
Bitcoin (v.0.11.0) = Tao sync ratio = 4.14 seconds / hour of update || Monero (v.0.41.1)  = Tao sync ratio = 14.2 seconds / hour of update
TaoOfSaatoshi
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December 19, 2015, 05:15:03 PM



Updated version! Click image for article.

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/678254115005308928


TanteStefana2
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December 19, 2015, 05:18:54 PM


Oops, that's a slash Tao, this is a dash -  LOL Wink

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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December 19, 2015, 05:23:14 PM

Linux Issue


http://www.engadget.com/2015/12/18/log-into-most-any-linux-system-by-hitting-backspace-28-times/
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December 19, 2015, 05:45:21 PM

What is the transaction fee for sending DASH? Thanks
tolikkk
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December 19, 2015, 06:02:07 PM

What is the transaction fee for sending DASH? Thanks
usually from 0.02 to 0.001 Dash but there is a possibility, although that vary on different resources
TaoOfSaatoshi
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December 19, 2015, 06:23:50 PM

dash crash Huh
You made me look... Shame on you!

TaoOfSaatoshi
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December 19, 2015, 06:25:12 PM

Very funny!  Grin

Tok's thoughts always draw a crowd, 300 hits already. That's good for a Saturday.

TanteStefana2
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December 19, 2015, 06:28:55 PM

What is the transaction fee for sending DASH? Thanks

It  has to do with the size of the transaction (how many inputs)  You can see how much a transaction will cost, if you go to the send tab.  On the upper left corner area, you'll find "coin control features" and below that a button.  If you choose which inputs to use (rather than having the wallet decide) you can see all the information after you hit OK (for the coins you chose)

Also, if you just do it the regular way, it will tell you how much the fees are just before you send it.  But be careful, if you don't intend to really send the funds, you must hit no, or cancel (can't remember which)  Finally, if you put testnet=1 in your conf file, and let one of us know, we'll send you some funny money to practice with- no fear, and you can really get to know the wallet.  In fact, you don't even have to ask, there are faucets: https://dashtalk.org/threads/testnet-tools-resources.1768/ 

The above thread lists them and other tools, like the explorer.  If I were you, If I were anyone who hasn't messed around in that sandbox, I'd highly suggest you do. Knowledge = confidence = less likelihood of f#cking up.  You can also ask questions (one step up from that thread is the sub forum) in the v12 testnet thread.

In fact, I think I'm going to go mine there Wink  I'll be all ready for the new testing that should come up soon.  Maybe you'll join us?  It's fun!  And you get to see the new stuff before it's out Smiley

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
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TanteStefana2
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December 19, 2015, 06:30:14 PM

dash crash Huh
You made me look... Shame on you!

LOL, Dash crash?  We're still #5 

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
Solarminer
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December 19, 2015, 06:43:42 PM

What is the transaction fee for sending DASH? Thanks
usually from 0.02 to 0.001 Dash but there is a possibility, although that vary on different resources
Actually, standard transactions are usually free or .0001.

Instantx are .015 or about 5 cents.

Evolution is planning to have all transactions instantx and free for consumers.  Only fees for merchants.
bigrcanada
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December 19, 2015, 06:58:55 PM

What is the transaction fee for sending DASH? Thanks
usually from 0.02 to 0.001 Dash but there is a possibility, although that vary on different resources
Actually, standard transactions are usually free or .0001.

Instantx are .015 or about 5 cents.

Evolution is planning to have all transactions instantx and free for consumers.  Only fees for merchants.

hummm...that is interesting.  It would be great to stream line things like this.

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December 19, 2015, 07:00:10 PM

Bitcoin going down guys, are you ready ?  Grin

Dash is 27.3 times faster with syncing and updating than Bitcoin and 93.7 times faster than Monero. Bitcoin (v0.11.0) has a Tao ratio 11.2% faster than bitcoin (v0.10.0) release.
Dash (v.0.12.0.49) = Tao sync ratio = 0.15 seconds / hour of update || Dash (v.0.11.2.23) = Tao sync ratio = 0.24 seconds / hour of update. V12 versus V11 speedup = +36.5%
Bitcoin (v.0.11.0) = Tao sync ratio = 4.14 seconds / hour of update || Monero (v.0.41.1)  = Tao sync ratio = 14.2 seconds / hour of update
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December 19, 2015, 07:06:27 PM

What is the transaction fee for sending DASH? Thanks
usually from 0.02 to 0.001 Dash but there is a possibility, although that vary on different resources
Actually, standard transactions are usually free or .0001.

Instantx are .015 or about 5 cents.

Evolution is planning to have all transactions instantx and free for consumers.  Only fees for merchants.

hummm...that is interesting.  It would be great to stream line things like this.

It works for VISA and MasterCard, it's no coincidence this model is being formulated.

Whether it's a good idea or a bad idea is up for each person to decide.

First time posting in this thread and have been trading moderate amounts of Darkcoin DASH for a while now, strictly for BTC profit - so please don't hate me - but this idea is unique in the Crypto-world.

Most cryptocurrencies shun most traditional banking aspects.  It'll be interesting to follow DASH.  Whether to buy in or sell out, yeah who cares.  Let each person decide for themselves.

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December 19, 2015, 07:18:03 PM

Bitcoin going down guys, are you ready ?  Grin
As long as we're going up at the same time...  Tongue

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