[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[tungfa]

Aren't you a bit ahead of yourself there ?

Feeling impatient ?  

always am
 

[Bridgewater]

I think the bitcoin devs are just fighting to stay relevant, when they really haven't been for a long time.

Bitcoin functions just fine as-is, and in my amateur opinion, RBF seems to be consistent with the current working bitcoin model, which should scale just fine due to incentives for the miners to put transactions with the most fees into the 1MB block.   This is the way bitcoin currently works, so why not try to enforce this instead of trying to side-step it? I think that's probably the inspiration behind Todd's push for RBF.

Sure, the current zero-conf business infrastructure has "gotten away with" this risky practice for quite some time, because bitcoin has not yet reached the point where fees determine all the transactions that will get put into the next block.

This is the same old block-size debate, just shown in a different way.  RBF just forces the issue.  It is not really that necessary, as the zero-conf industry will eventually have to face the music when fees determine block inclusion, at which point they'll try even harder to band-together to get push a risky, self-serving, off-chain, centralized "second tier" network for instant confirmations--while Dash already has this function built-in to the coin, and decentralized too!

[toknormal]

always am
 

Well being ahead of yourself can come in handy - for example when a faulty camera drone drops out of the sky and nearly kills you while your trying to win a ski race.

[kointrend]

always am
 

Well being ahead of yourself can come in handy - for example when a faulty camera drone drops out of the sky and nearly kills you while your trying to win a ski race.

LOL!
Antonopoulos advice!
https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/675338150823264260

BTW: nice buy wall at polo (7878 DASH)

[tungfa]

always am
 

Well being ahead of yourself can come in handy - for example when a faulty camera drone drops out of the sky and nearly kills you while your trying to win a ski race.

lol
whow !
 

[stealth923]

3460 Masternodes

Can we please make it 3500 before 2016!!!

[splawik21]

3460 Masternodes

Can we please make it 3500 before 2016!!!

+1 in the afternoon 

[dazbarlby]

This is how I envision DASH payments to work on the web...

Am I close or a mile away?

[toknormal]

Some of the philosophy behind RBF.

[Salkenex]

Some of the philosophy behind RBF.

https://i.imgur.com/3zdUOmV.png

I just do not get a good feeling of trust for this guy and I have a very hard time buying-in to what he's saying. The whole fact that his solution is to reward the spender that pays more regardless of order does not sit well with me. How exactly is that supposed to prove or guarantee that the transaction is the true, legitimate transaction and not the nefarious double-spend? It can't.

[stan.distortion]

Some of the philosophy behind RBF.

Hmm... In terms of philosophy the earth is obviously flat because otherwise things would fall off the bottom, there's more than one way of looking at the points he's made but he doesn't seem to be seeing them. That's true for RBF but his points on InstantX are a better example, he says it'll be broken because you cant make instant decisions on a distributed network but seems blind to the obvious, the decision on how that instant transaction will be performed has been made before the transaction is carried out, the small group of masternodes that can make a secure decision very quickly have already been selected so if/when a transaction is performed its locked in a fraction of a second.

You want to see centralisation of a distributed network, here it is, a small group making decisions on big issues without consulting the big group effected by those decisions. Noahs post was the first I'd really heard of RBF and I've been assuming the obvious, that the recipients address cant be changed, just the fee and that anything else would be detected as a double spend and would be dropped or possibly included as a return with a timelock as a deterrent.

Allowing re-direction is crazy and walks right over existing uses, accepting confirmationless transactions is bad practice but it's not up to a small few to police how the network is used, at this stage it can be considered a public resource so it's up to them to maintain it on behalf of the users. The trustless aspect of Bitcoin only refers to usage, not to the fundamentals of its operation and this is a change to those fundementals, plenty of users have been caught out with mistakes when pressing "send" but plenty more have been caught out pressing "send" on an email,, its just the way it works and we wise up and don't do it again, the nanny stuff goes into the application, not into the network. But hey, maybe its time for a re-think on that 21 million thing...

[eduffield]

This is how I envision DASH payments to work on the web...

Am I close or a mile away?

DAPI allows ANY two peers on the network to communicate directly and send ANY messages they wish between themselves. Therefore all future implementation of this type of technology (payment channels, one click purchasing, etc) is actually done in the lite wallet itself (python, javascript, etc). So it's more like you telling the website "hey my username is Evan",  then it sends a temporary request which allows the communication channel, after which let's say you want to buy socks, the website will ask your wallet directly, "Do you want buy socks from XYZ for $14? (along with the correct payment address to send to, etc)". Then you click OK, which sends the payment to that merchant.

If you broadcast a payment using the first tier, there will be normal fees. We don't need RBF because we can calculate a fee per kb using masternode quorums for the rest of the network. For third tier users, they'll pay for processing time they use on the network, not per transaction. Each time you do anything, the network will update your profile and say "User Evan used 123 milliseconds of processing time" via a quorum action. All users get some amount of free processing time, which will be calculated by the network to allow 90% of our users to maintain 100% free accounts.

In economic terms, our heavy users and economic inflation (e.g. creation of new coins being paid to the second tier) are going to subsidize our regular users by paying for their processing time on the network. I think the target audience should have completely free access to the network and we can shift things around to make that happen.

[toknormal]

there's more than one way of looking at the points he's made

I thought the longest chain ultimately decided which transaction "was first".

In other words, although at a granular level it appears arbitrary in that one node may see one transaction first and another node may see the other, the aggregation of the network still acts to mitigate ambiguity using majority rule. If you introduce economic incentives at the 0-conf stage, doesn't that usurp that arbitration role that the network has ? It at least changes it. I think that's Todd's whole idea in fact.

[dashwhale]

DAPI allows ANY two peers on the network to communicate directly and send ANY messages they wish between themselves. Therefore all future implementation of this type of technology (payment channels, one click purchasing, etc) is actually done in the lite wallet itself (python, javascript, etc). So it's more like you telling the website "hey my username is Evan",  then it sends a temporary request which allows the communication channel, after which let's say you want to buy socks, the website will ask your wallet directly, "Do you want buy socks from XYZ for $14? (along with the correct payment address to send to, etc)". Then you click OK, which sends the payment to that merchant.

If you broadcast a payment using the first tier, there will be normal fees. We don't need RBF because we can calculate a fee per kb using masternode quorums for the rest of the network. For third tier users, they'll pay for processing time they use on the network, not per transaction. Each time you do anything, the network will update your profile and say "User Evan used 123 milliseconds of processing time" via a quorum action. All users get some amount of free processing time, which will be calculated by the network to allow 90% of our users to maintain 100% free accounts.

In economic terms, our heavy users and economic inflation (e.g. creation of new coins being paid to the second tier) are going to subsidize our regular users by paying for their processing time on the network. I think the target audience should have completely free access to the network and we can shift things around to make that happen.

That's really an awesome concept, Evan!

[qvan]

@ wolf0

I think here is the part of the sentence that was not there (yellow glow) 

https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1098.pdf
....... Dashcoin .....

For real?? I had bookmarked that paper for a read, but after your quote i'm not sure if i should read it ...
What kind of paper is this if they can't even get the name of DASH right ...
Such a sloppy research on DASH that they even can't get the name right is just so amateurish ...

I'll notify the author to adjust it. Agree it is a bit sloppy, but he isn't the only one who got it wrong.

Maybe it's not sloppy, but a dig at Dash's snake oil and your cargo cult's bad 'bamboo version' of crypto. 

Regardless, it's a good example of why stealing the Dash-coin name for Darkcoin's rebrand was a bad idea.

Hey Ice, I am a small miner that mines DASH and I would like to express a couple of thoughts to you.  First, why don't you take your communist loving moron self to one of the crappy backwater countries that are a complete mess and joke.  Go live under horrible conditions that only the communist countries have to endure.  Come on and tell us how great it is while you are poor as dirt and starve.

Also, I understand that you have code in your monero, that has backdoors and you said that everyone is so stupid and they won't know about it.  Seems you really screwed the pooch on that one, by the way anyone worth his salt in this world knows go get an expert if you are going to do any business with another, and you sir are the lowest of the low and I hope a few more people are aware of your horrible soul.  I hope you enjoy burning for eternity, you can repent, just ask.

DASH is way better than your monero, and you are a liar, an idiot communist, and a back stabbing piece of trash.

your words means nothing..why?

1. you are mining DASH, Wolf0 the miner developer who optimized GPU mining for DASH said it is stupid to mine this coin..therefore you are stupid 

2. Newbie account, most likely you are a sock puppet. a new born rat account maybe? hmmmm should I add you to my list?..nah run along mouse..

1.  Who said I was selling any DASH, I'm hodling. I make decisions not based on current value, but possible value.  That is called investing.  If I want to mine DASH that could be worth a lot of money, and you have no faith, you can call me stupid all day long while I laugh while at the bank in the future. Yes, I could buy DASH, but I want to know about it so I mine.  Also, I am not a rich person just an average guy.  I am in a free country and if I choose to mine, I will.  Have a nice life.  You are probably commie trash also.

2. No sock puppet.  A communist worst nightmare? Yes.

you are stupid indeed..

here let me help you baghold more DASH and laugh while at the bank in the future...

Mine the most profitable coin and sell for BTC, and then buy DASH with your BTC...you get more DASH by doing that stupid

aaaaand i would like to say you are not just stupid but also a hypocrite, crypto currencies including DASH is a competition to banks.

[toknormal]

I'd be interested to know what proportion of all Bitcoin trade transactions are 0-conf.

i.e. - bitcoin used for goods purchases, not movements to and from exchanges, people shuffling their money around etc.

When Peter Todd says "you just can't come to a consensus that fast", that's probably true but it's not necessarily the relevant point. The point is:

(a) - is there a significant market for blockchain based instant cash ?

(b) - does Dash's InstantX anticipate that consensus better than a Bitcoin 0-conf ?

(c) - if so (a+b) then how much better and how much more securely ?

The fiat retail system uses an InstantX equivalent all the time which lets the customer get out of the supermarket fast by "anticipating the clearing system consensus". It's also getting continually broken by hacks, equipment failures, human failures and design deficiencies. Despite that, the commercial economy would collapse without it. Retailers would have queues around the block and in many cases wouldn't get paid till the next day.

The question isn't do we need - at least the option of - instant transactions, the question is should the "consensus anticipatory layer" be integrated in the blockchain protocol or manifest as a third party service using centralised balances and non-realtime settlements.

That ECB document I posted the other day (will try to find it) has given us one answer to that question. Their definition of "cash" is that the payment is settled instantly - i.e. it arrives in the payee's final account.

P.S.

(Also, he should not swear since that interview's probably going to be quite popular as a justification for the new RPF technology and it detracts from its authoritativeness   )

[pille]

DashTV - The easy way to keep an eye on your investment



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[dazbarlby]

This is how I envision DASH payments to work on the web...

DAPI allows ANY two peers on the network to communicate directly and send ANY messages they wish between themselves. Therefore all future implementation of this type of technology (payment channels, one click purchasing, etc) is actually done in the lite wallet itself (python, javascript, etc). So it's more like you telling the website "hey my username is Evan",  then it sends a temporary request which allows the communication channel, after which let's say you want to buy socks, the website will ask your wallet directly, "Do you want buy socks from XYZ for $14? (along with the correct payment address to send to, etc)". Then you click OK, which sends the payment to that merchant.

If you broadcast a payment using the first tier, there will be normal fees. We don't need RBF because we can calculate a fee per kb using masternode quorums for the rest of the network. For third tier users, they'll pay for processing time they use on the network, not per transaction. Each time you do anything, the network will update your profile and say "User Evan used 123 milliseconds of processing time" via a quorum action. All users get some amount of free processing time, which will be calculated by the network to allow 90% of our users to maintain 100% free accounts.

In economic terms, our heavy users and economic inflation (e.g. creation of new coins being paid to the second tier) are going to subsidize our regular users by paying for their processing time on the network. I think the target audience should have completely free access to the network and we can shift things around to make that happen.

Does the light wallet have to be built as a browser extension, or will it be a bit of JavaScript anybody can copy and paste into their html/php/asp code? If it's the latter, this could potentially spread like wildfire through social media apps etc

[splawik21]

Am I the only one who see the dashtalk offline?

[megges]

Am I the only one who see the dashtalk offline?

can confirm  it's offline for me, too