[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[illodin]

It is perfectly possible (and maybe feasable) to let the masternodes write the blockchain.
Why not? If every transaction is IX, then the masternodes agree and are already responsible for securing the transactions...
So they can just write them to the blockchain as well: let the quorums just write a block.
plus side: DASH gives a bigger incentive to masternodes

If there is a fork and two chains, how do you choose the longest chain in your proposed design if there is no difficulty and the blocks keep coming in both forks in predetermined interval?

How do you do it with miners?

By utilizing the Longest Chain Rule.

Ask the Ethereum devs how they'll solve it with their PoS.

They don't even know themselves yet.

[qwizzie]

I'm still waiting for the Reddit Darkcoin De-anonymizer that was promised a year and a half ago...

yeah, these trolls promise so much and yet deliver sooo little  

Such a hopeless quest these trolls are on : using fud and lies to discredit Dash has not worked in the past and will not work in the future
but still they keep trying and trying and trying and simply not learning their postings are irrelevant beyond measurement.
 

[qwizzie]

Can someone give me the ELI5 of the "PROOF_OF_LABOUR" proposal?

Its a bit over my head to be honest but what i got so far is this :

Core of this budget proposal is about setting up Flow Scrip Contracts & Flow Script Systems through Dash as decentralised medium.
They will help us setting this up, providing code, helping with definitions, helping with the escrow system, etc

Flow script is a contract in terms of flow money through escrow mechanism

Flow Money : GDP for example



Benefits : merchandise, asset, good, product or service with the exception of any kind of monetary payment

Offerer pledges a nominal amount of Benefits to beneficiary and is paid in Flow Money. Enforcement of contract and acceptance by beneficiary happens through an escrow system

You can read their paper here : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxMpUFjkIPHlczZ2NkI4OUdBcFU/view

It could enhance the direction Dash Evolution is heading (by introducing some form of smart contracts) but it seems a lot bigger then just smart contracts and i'm not sure
if we / they can transform the theory behind this all into practical usage.

Edit : almost forget, they also plan to use some form of tokens which will serve as proof of labour from which money will be created in the flow scrip system.

Julio Moros is in contact with me on Twitter. I asked him to start a thread on DashTalk. First impressions: It seems like a reasonable proposal, adding functionality to Dash. Let's hear more.

thanks, its an interesting budget proposal to follow for sure.

https://dashtalk.org/threads/budget-proposal-proof-of-labour.8108/
 

[bigrcanada1]

Come on really?
That is absolutely how it works.  You now must prove our statement  is false... We are stating that it's not possible to track coins once mixed 8 times. It's not up to us.... Your the one claiming its doesn't work... Nearly 2 years you guys have been making these claims... And nothing... Not once gave you proved us wrong.

[illodin]

De-obfuscating mixed coins is trivial.  You can use Bitcoin Sudoku or invent your own method.

You or Shen should totally do it. It would be great publicity for XMR.

What stops the community members of DASH (accompanied by the DGBB) to put up a few bounties? At least there will be some incentive to deanonymize transactions then. Furthermore, if I recall correctly the DGBB has a budget of around 20-30k per month. Moreover, you could set up a bounty for the deanonymization of an 1 round transaction, which Evan Duffield said would be the default in Evolution and another bounty for an 8 round transaction.

There is and has been all the incentive in the world to do it. Even shorting with leverage is available these days. It has already been tried and you know it.

Perhaps a bounty could be put up if someone agrees to try to get it, for example for 30 days? Then after 30 days it could be determined whether the attempt was successful or not. Or are you afraid the attempt would fail and would rather prefer an ongoing uncertainty and excuses like "the bounty is not enough" or "no one has even tried"?

[110110101]

I don't know if this was posted already, I checked but didn't see anything. Dash interview with Daniel Diaz, featured on the Sovereign BTC podcast and the Let's talk Bitcoin network:
https://soundcloud.com/sovereignbtc/dan-diaz-dash-final

[110110101]

@gerhard Every time the thread gets bumped it help DASH spread the word

But I agree, that's why we have the ignore button for a less cluttered and saner experience.

[toknormal]

That's not how this works.  The burden of proof is on Dash to prove it's secure.

Why?  Because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Dash is not going to be "sprung" because it is not an obfuscation based medium. It does not make any claims to hide anything and the blockchain is totally transparent - there for all to see and verify.

The objective of the technology is to vastly improve on bitcoin's level of fungibility and therefore support the same level of anonymity as natural cash does (such as tangible paper money and precious metals). That it does that is beyond debate, so there's nothing to "prove". Even if a transaction can be traced from one address to another, so what ? The medium is still anonymous and de-anonymisation in terms of who the owner is of a particular address still requires information gleaned from outside of the blockchain.

Furthermore, the entire coin supply is being continually mixed. This creates such a level of ownership ambiguity over time that 1000 Shen's would not have a snowballs hope in hell of ever creating a systematic tracing mechanism that had a shred of reliability about it. This approach does not need "proving". Thousands of years of anonymous cash-based monetary media already has.

Now lets, examine the other case - that of obfuscation based monetary media. Those technologies do indeed have something to prove because practically every obfuscation technology known to man has been hacked, solved, cracked and smacked with the passage of time. They are the Daedalus and Icarus of cryptocurrency technology and one of them has already crashed and burned demonstrating that the weakest link in the chain is not "math" but blind faith in devs and anonymous mathematicians.

No monetary medium will ever garner more than the most tenuous adoption under those circumstances. The kind of Peter Todd "I use it to launder my bitcoin" adoption because that kind of tech is a timebomb waiting to blow up in people's faces, whether it's sketchy devs, NSA backdoors, can-opening tech, toxic wallets or plain old theft made possible by the total lack of visual accountability of those blockchains.

[dnaleor]

It is perfectly possible (and maybe feasable) to let the masternodes write the blockchain.
Why not? If every transaction is IX, then the masternodes agree and are already responsible for securing the transactions...
So they can just write them to the blockchain as well: let the quorums just write a block.
plus side: DASH gives a bigger incentive to masternodes

If there is a fork and two chains, how do you choose the longest chain in your proposed design if there is no difficulty and the blocks keep coming in both forks in predetermined interval?

How do you do it with miners?

By utilizing the Longest Chain Rule.

So you admit that Instant X transactions shouldn't be trusted without at least one confirmation by the miners?
Do you see the problem here?

[illodin]

It is perfectly possible (and maybe feasable) to let the masternodes write the blockchain.
Why not? If every transaction is IX, then the masternodes agree and are already responsible for securing the transactions...
So they can just write them to the blockchain as well: let the quorums just write a block.
plus side: DASH gives a bigger incentive to masternodes

If there is a fork and two chains, how do you choose the longest chain in your proposed design if there is no difficulty and the blocks keep coming in both forks in predetermined interval?

How do you do it with miners?

By utilizing the Longest Chain Rule.

So you admit that Instant X transactions shouldn't be trusted without at least one confirmation by the miners?

That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is your proposed design "only the masternodes write the IX blockchain" can't work because there would be no "longest chain" anymore.

Do you see the problem here?

I see you creating strawmen, unwittingly or intentionally. If I had to guess it would be the former.

[afbitcoins]

14 owner  control about 1868 masternodes.

But there are 3550 masternodes, not 1868.

If this is accurate, this is pretty surprising to me. I would have guessed the top 50% of masternodes were in the hands of just 4 or 5 big whales. 14 is pretty impressive.

14 is better than 4 or 5 but still its a bit worrisome isn't it ? The majority of voting power in hands of such a tiny elite group who effectively can permit budgets that benefit them and block ones that don't. How hard is it for them to know each other and form a cartel. Isn't this recipe for rich getting richer at expense of everyone? In the end this could kill Dash

That's the point, they own Dash and to vote in order to benifit them means it will benifit Dash.  We've seen this with giving up 10% of the rewards in order to make a budget system.  Why would they do that?  It reduced the proposed 60/40 split with miners to 45-20-45.  Yet MN owners voted yes because it was good for Dash thus good for themselves.  Enlightened self interest. 

That's why only MN owners can vote, because they have their money where their mouth is.  Also, I agree, 14 people owning 50% sounds a lot better than I thought it was

But still this relies on trust. Trust that these enlightened few will always continue to grow Dash in a fair and responsible way that benefits everyone. Maybe this is not misplaced trust and they will. I accept your point that what is good for Dash also benefits them so there is incentive to keep it fair.

Even so there may be scenarios where budgets are passed which majority of masternode operators don't want. This is why voting in elections is one vote per person, not one vote per million dollars of wealth a person has for example.  

In fact is it worth bothering to vote at all if so much voting power belongs to so few? The ability to vote looks good on paper and discussed in blogs. But in reality it looks like democracy but is more like plutocracy.

Anyway I hope I'm not heading for the troll list by writing these things, I like where Dash is heading in general and particularly like that it focuses on the properties of cash or money. At the moment I plan to stay invested in Dash because I have trust in the large holders to do the right things. But in my opinion this budget system needs a lot of thought.
  

[GhostPlayer]

 A little bird told me that there is a new exchange in town that accepts InstantX transactions.

 That's how serious it's getting folk.

[tungfa]

SovereignBTC #84 Daniel Diaz on the Decentralized Governance System Behind the Dash Network
 
https://soundcloud.com/sovereignbtc/dan-diaz-dash-final

[Days]

I have to say, glad Dash community don't go to Monero's speculation pump thread or their ghost ANN thread. Keep developing and working on ur coin this is the way to go because we don't need spammers with 1 update per 1.5 years like them it's just bad over there.

[tungfa]

I have to say, glad Dash community don't go to Monero's speculation pump thread or their ghost ANN thread. Keep developing and working on ur coin this is the way to go because we don't need spammers with 1 update per 1.5 years like them it's just bad over there.

please do NOT bring more of them here !
 
we have our hand full already
lol

[aleix]

The success can be measured this way -> People from other communities posting here on a daily basis. Do you see Dash people worried about the business and trolling the threads of other coins?  

[dEBRUYNE]

The success can be measured this way -> People from other communities posting here on a daily basis. Do you see Dash people worried about the business and trolling the threads of other coins?  

Frankly, one of your community members named "Herp" has been quite active in the Monero threads with trollish behavior.

[illodin]

The success can be measured this way -> People from other communities posting here on a daily basis. Do you see Dash people worried about the business and trolling the threads of other coins?  

Frankly, one of your community members named "Herp" has been quite active in the Monero threads with trollish behavior.

Probably a reverse troll paid by Monero Marketing Department trying to make Dash look bad. 

[GhostPlayer]

Frankly, one of your community members named "Herp" has been quite active in the Monero threads with trollish behavior.

 Define "community member"... 'cos I've never heard of that fella...

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

A little bird told me that there is a new exchange in town that accepts InstantX transactions.

 That's how serious it's getting folk.

In my eyes, its pretty useless if there is no volume in the exchange.
The new exchanges keep poping up and the older ones adding DASH but all volume is on polo or bter pretty much...