[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[BusterNutBag]

and maybe someday we can actually do that, but not at this extremely deflationary moment in Dash's lifetime.

How do you figure? By my math we experienced 16% inflation for 2016 and will have about 12.6% inflation in 2017, then 10.55%. I've actually never thought of any of these cryptographic currencies as deflationary, they are constantly creating coins until they stop at some point; the only deflation comes from coins being destroyed or lost.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpLd87PTs65sz8USrrXwGRoVGVbzaC-nunErEtGSJoE/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0

Evan, if this project is successful, Dash could see 1000% inflation (in price), or more  This means that if Dash owes someone money in the future, because we signed a contract in Dash, we have to pay it, at the cost of what those funds could have otherwise done for us.  We can't see the future.  It would be better to have proposals given to the MN network, discussions on pros and cons, and a budget that sits in a pot, waiting to be allocated by people until either the volatility subsides and/or better functionality can be designed.

Edit, Oh I see your question better.  Sure, coins are being created, but user base, increases exponentially, IF the project is successful.  And remember, these long term contracts are eating into the funds we need for other things. And if they don't go down, we tie up a lot of potential value. 

I assume, and I think there is a good 80% likelihood of success, that we'll be successful, that means crazy prices ahead for Dash.  Good or bad, it is just a matter of demand.

If you promise to pay somebody X DASH per month then that IS the deal...


About 2.5 years ago I played a stupid BTC Darts game and one of my SENDS got lost somewhere and I never got to play that round
It was worth about $8 at the time.
Going through my notes and links and wallet - I sent the website owner an email, telling him/her what happened...
S/He agreed that the round was never played and I was granted a refund for the full BTC amount I had previously submitted....
It was now worth $80 - and yes - s/he paid me in BTC for the total amount of BTC I had previously submitted.


I took a loan out in DASH
My father asked me what the fiat price was when I took the loan
He was afraid that when I had to pay back the loan - I would have to repay with more DASH.....
?? uh ??
I received 120 DASH - I'll pay back 120 DASH - simple
.....what? if the price goes down I have to pay back less?? - uh no....
[I would only be paying back less in fiat, if I had to buy at a lower rate]

DASH
is
DASH

...it's only worth more if the "price" goes up and you sell it
- other than that

DASH
is
DASH





DASH
>>>is
CASH

[Minotaur26]

It was a really cool idea, that this program running on machines all over the world could make payments, etc.... and maybe someday we can actually do that, but not at this extremely deflationary moment in Dash's lifetime.  Like I said, it puts us in irreconcilable debt.  And ultimately without any funds to function.

The problem is you are assuming the price only goes up and that is not reality. We recently touched 6 USD and a contract signed at that price would be under water.

 Also some people may want to take the speculative risk and that is the only thing that motivates them to work with us. We cant have our cake and eat it too. Who is to say that the price is not going up precisely because we are making all of these investments and partnerships. In fact I firmly believe that is why we will be successful. People making money with us is a really good thing. The price going up is good for everyone it motivates our service providers to do a good job. We can't just cut people out of the upside when they contribute to our project doing well. That is just not good business. That is like not being happy that a sales representative is making a lot of commision money, if he is making money the company is making money.

Plus prices go up and down and will continue to go up and down. Very soon we will have contracts that start at a price and the price goes down and the vendor needs to take the difference that is just how it works. Judging just on the current price situation is short sighted and ignoring that our ATH is 15 USD.

Anyway, the potential upside is what motivates everyone. Also, networks are living organisms they are much more than just code. We are building a reputation in business and the Dash network should build a reputation that we keep our agreements when is in our favor and when is in favor of our service providers.

And funding wont run out because contracts have terms and those terms expire and then space opens up again. Having limits protects us from spending too much too quickly anyway it will force us to pace our investments and will ultimately give better results.

True, so creating contracts this way is pretty nuts, especially since we're in the extreme growing phase of this project.  In the end Dash will increase in value exponentially, unless it fails, and I don't think it will fail.  Still, contractors need to quote prices in set amounts.  And if they're betting on a Dash windfall, we ought to be able to bet on the opposite side.  "no, we think the price will increase, and thus, for this 10 month long contract, we want a reduction in the amount of Dash we owe you to be 3% per month, if there is a bigger rise, you win, if it drops, you lose, but if you don't want to take that risk, name your denomination in fiat and that's what we'll pay you.

Because personally, I don't like the risk, as I think Dash is already worth far more than it's trading.  I'd rather we dealt in fiat values for our contracts, with the option of being paid in Dash if they want; but at fiat prices.

I understand the way you see things but that is just not reality and ultimately not good for us.  We wont always have more leverage in the negotiation, maybe later on in the life of the currency a little more but not really for now.

Often times we will be the ones trying to get a partnership or an integration to happen so we can't just establish only terms that favor us and eliminate any upside for the people partnering with us. Neither should we want to do that.

You kind of present it as if just by waiting the Dash price will go up. The price will go up as a result of adding value and utility. And value and utility will be added from the sum of all investments and contributions everyone makes including our service providers. So if we make some contracts in Dash and everything goes well and ultimately our contractors make a lot of money that means that all the investors are making a lot of money. And that is good for everyone.

I hope that at least I was able to explain myself. That is how I think business should work but ultimately the votes will decide how we do things so there is no need to agree really as there are many valid ways to see things.

[FeelTheBern]

Don't feel like quoting everyone trying to talk to me at the same time so here.

@Tante:
Personally, I can't believe we made a contract with a PR firm in Dash not in fiat.  

THANK YOU. Thats the point here, what kind of business are we running here, a charity? Who the hell gets paid an ever increasing amount (possibly) instead of a more "fixed" USD amount? We are not in the "crypto future" just yet, pay them what they are worth and not a cent more. We are not begging for people to help us, we are paying customers. We are not below them, and if you keep signing a deals in that mindset, Dash will most surely fail. Pay them in USD. And pay them in 1 month chunks, or pay the 3 month cost upfront, we don't want to be on the hook for the price increases.....

@Minotoar: Just doing my thing. Don't mind me.

@The the random guy calling me a professional, thanks!

I don't intend on visiting here often honestly, it's quite toxic round these parts, just thought I'd drop by for a post or two. Besides the amount of trolls on this forum is too damn high!

"Speak a little truth and people lose their minds"

[TanteStefana2]

I only want to pay a contractor what I contracted him to do, for the amount i agreed to .  I don't want to take risk, I don't want to place a bet with him.  I just want the regular price.  Right now, Dash, Bitcoin, Etc... are all volatile.  Dash is most volatile in the direction of it going up in price.  Either way, I would rather, at this point in time, that we make agreements in the fiat of their choice, as that doesn't move so much.  He doesn't have to take any risk, and we know our risk.  Since I think prices will rise, this will enable us to make more use of what we get.  This would obviously require a buffer, so that a shortfall can be covered.  I think the ability to have more in our budget (because I feel strongly that in the long run Dash will go up in value) is worth the periodical low prices.

But as you say, it's how you look at it.  If Dash stays extremely stable at $4 per coin, it wouldn't matter so much.  I don't think that's going to happen though.  The other thing is, there is no guarantee of payment, if the MN network votes something in that knocks an older budget down, and now we're in danger of that happening all the time.  It's fickle.  Not good for business.

I'm just saying, I think people should now see the light that this system needs work.  Not just in the amount paid out for a job, but also in how budgets are analyzed.  Currently we have no information, everything is proposed moment to moment, no planning at all.  This will hurt us, especially now that we can see, we have limited funds, and can't do everything.  We need time to discuss and decide what projects should go first

It needs work.  I don't know all the answers.  I can't see it happening without humans, but maybe Evan will come up with a system that will work better.  It has to function with risk and with the ability to prioritize projects (beyond the bump 'em off, as this has consequences)

Got ta get some sleep.  Thanks for reading.  All this is really super exciting fun sh*t, you gotta admit!  Can't wait to see where this goes next

[qwizzie]

Hello Everyone,

As most of you are probably aware, budget finalization is about to happen on our network, but it looks like the network is missing about 1500 votes for the last two proposals. I would prefer the whole network vote on this so we can be sure where the network would like us to spend the budget funding. Should it go to reimbursing the soda guys or should it go to funding a pr campaign?

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/soda-reimbursement
1154 Yes / 431 No
1585 Votes

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/transform-pr
1410 Yes / 660 No
2070 Votes

There's currently about 2000 votes missing from soda-reimbursement and 1500 votes missing from transform-pr. These are the two lowest voted proposals and they are competing for that final payment slot.

Please vote  

The Battle for Funding between budget proposals has began, may the best budget proposal win and get funding.  
There is already a form of strategic voting that is becoming visible, it will be interesting to see how this develops over time.

So once more i would like to emphasize to everyone that voting can have a direct impact on already established budget proposals, be aware of this.  

[raico]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

[FeelTheBern]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

They will do thier job the exact same whether you pay them $5000 or $5000000 dollars. That is why they say you pay us XXXXX amount and we do XXXXX work.

Why pay more for the same product? What kind of thinking is this? Why are we taking on this risk of this? Why is there risk at all? Pay them up front in usd or in 1 month chunks and this is no longer an issue at all.

They gave you a quote in USD, no? If they didn't why are you doing business with them? Who the hell says pay us XXX DASH per month?

[qwizzie]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

agreed, nothing wrong with that .. you may even attract some longterm investors that way.

[FeelTheBern]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

agreed, nothing wrong with that .. you may even attract some longterm investors that way.

Please explain this absurd logic to me.

What business in the todays world does this?

We are taking on an incredible risk of paying them 2-100000x of what we should have, for no reason at all.

Take the risk out of the business relationship so it doesn't go sour, because it will go sour if this is how we approach it.

[BusterNutBag]

Votes matter.....

[FeelTheBern]

Votes matter.....

Yes, yes they do.

https://www.dashwhale.org/budget

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/catchall-1024
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/catchall-512
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/catchall-256
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/catchall-128
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/catchall-64
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/catchall-16

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/soda-reimbursement
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/satoshi-roundtable
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/Vendor-Experience
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/lamassu-integration
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/transform-pr

All the current possible things to vote on, for those forgetful Masternode owners.

[qwizzie]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

agreed, nothing wrong with that .. you may even attract some longterm investors that way.

Please explain this absurd logic to me.

What business in the todays world does this?

We are taking on an incredible risk of paying them 2-100000x of what we should have, for no reason at all.

Take the risk out of the business relationship so it doesn't go sour, because it will go sour if this is how we approach it.

Businesses should have the possibility to be paid out in Dash if they want to, they of course need to know the risk they take on with that
as the price can go up or down but at the end it will create a Dash eco-system which is what we all want. The problem with Bitcoin is currently
that nobody wants to be paid out in Bitcoin and use Bitpay to avoid it, Dash could go the other way as we are more then just a fluctuating price
and look very healthy longterm to the outside.

Also remember this is just for a three months period for this specific budget proposal with currently two months remaining.
  

[FeelTheBern]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

agreed, nothing wrong with that .. you may even attract some longterm investors that way.

Please explain this absurd logic to me.

What business in the todays world does this?

We are taking on an incredible risk of paying them 2-100000x of what we should have, for no reason at all.

Take the risk out of the business relationship so it doesn't go sour, because it will go sour if this is how we approach it.

Businesses should have the possibility to be paid out in Dash if they want to, they of course need to know the risk they take on with that
as the price can go up or down but at the end it will create a Dash eco-system which is what we all want. The problem with Bitcoin is currently
that nobody wants to be paid out in Bitcoin and use Bitpay to avoid it, Dash could go the other way as we are more then just a fluctuating price
and look very healthy longterm to the outside.

Also remember this is just for a three months period.
  

Three months is a LONG time in the crypto world. Prices could double and triple and so on in that time period.

I agree creating a Dash ecosystem is useful, but not with big ticket items like this. The risk is way too high on our end, we could use that sort of wasted money for so many things instead of impressing our contractors, and face it they are contractors, they take any money you hand them and they work the same regardless.

If anyone wanted me to sign a 3 month contract and I was to be responsible for the price rises, I wouldn't sign that contract. I'd find the USD contract, cash out, pay them and be on with my life and save myself a headache. If they do not offer a way for me to pay without paying them in Dash and being on the hook for the price rises, I wouldn't do business with them. There is plenty of sane companies out there who are just as good if not better.

[bigrcanada1]

Paying a PR firm with Dash rather than fiat should be a good idea...
the better they do their job, the more Dash appreciates, then the more they will earn.

Agree~! And that makes Dash become more Dash~

agreed, nothing wrong with that .. you may even attract some longterm investors that way.

Please explain this absurd logic to me.

What business in the todays world does this?

We are taking on an incredible risk of paying them 2-100000x of what we should have, for no reason at all.

Take the risk out of the business relationship so it doesn't go sour, because it will go sour if this is how we approach it.

Businesses should have the possibility to be paid out in Dash if they want to, they of course need to know the risk they take on with that
as the price can go up or down but at the end it will create a Dash eco-system which is what we all want. The problem with Bitcoin is currently
that nobody wants to be paid out in Bitcoin and use Bitpay to avoid it, Dash could go the other way as we are more then just a fluctuating price
and look very healthy longterm to the outside.

Also remember this is just for a three months period for this specific budget proposal with currently two months remaining.
  

I think in the future...we need to  be clear on how we are valuing the contract.  If it was hedged on  USD or some other fiat...then so be it.  On the other hand...if it was hedged on DASH alone...we cant fudge on this.  If at the time of the contract DASH was $2.50 USD and later DASH is worth  $20.00  That  has NO bearing.  I do this  often...sometimes it benefits me greatly and sometimes I loss.  I'll give a real  world example of a fiat transaction at our winery.

I ordered 12 French Barrels from Boutes in France and 12 barrels from Seguin Moreau from Napa.  One quote in Euros and the other in USD...I live in Canada, so need to convert.

Our currency tanked to the USD...I got hosed on that...because I agreed to pay in USD...i cost me nearly 25% more from the initial placement of  the order.  At $1200 per barrel, this difference adds up.  The contract was in USD...that is what I'm paying in.  End of story.  

Its the risk we all take...and in the case of this DASH contract...it could have gone the other way.  I've not seen  the original deal...but my suggestion is, if we agree to pay in DASH...we pay in DASH.  Just my opinion on this.

[bertlebbert]

Every proposal that is based on a fixed USD amount, from the moment it is presented, contains immediate market risk...

If you require USD 1000 and current Dash price is $4.00, then you ask for 250 Dash. You, the proposal owner, take on immediate market risk - when your proposal gets paid, those 250 Dash will be worth either more than or less than the required $1000.

Or you can transfer that market risk by convincing a service provider to accept Dash rather than fiat, in which case the service provider will end up with more than or less than the $1000.

The budget system itself does not, and can not take on market risk - it pays 250 Dash regardless of market price. Rather, the market risk must be borne by either the proposal owner or the service provider, and they will do better or worse depending on the market.

With multiple payments further in the future, the market risk is of course magnified.

Edit: whoever assumes the market risk should be entitled to any upside reward, just as he is subject to any downside loss.

[afbitcoins]

Hey, let me present my new DASH video:



Thanks to TanteStefana and Tungfa for their help with script and sound editing.

It'll be nice if Dash community help me to cover direct production expenses - on my DASH: XxG6WRPA5ef767m37eEbGjK8T1UPAVGdCq
I have lots of additional promo-ideas but can't sponsor them by myself. Thanks!

Please spread the word, everybody - distribute this nice video.

Bump, and wanted to say this was really cool.  That a member can put out such great videos is so awesome!  Sorry I'm not up to par today, I'll have to catch up with the forum when I'm feeling better and the screen isn't making me feel like my head is gonna explode, LOL   Laters!

Its a nice idea but not really professional standard. Hope you don't mind my sharing opinion. My main criticism is that its a bit unbalanced in terms of (just about) everyone is female. Whats the story is Dash only for women? Thats main thing that stuck out to me.

[GhostPlayer]

 You mean that chick with a beard is a dude?  

 

[GhostPlayer]

 Certainly not the most reliable source for news, but this one should be easy to verify. Anyone heard of this?
 Gave me the creeps... 

http://www.infowars.com/retail-apocalypse-2016-brings-empty-shelves-and-store-closings-all-across-america/

RETAIL APOCALYPSE: 2016 BRINGS EMPTY SHELVES AND STORE CLOSINGS ALL ACROSS AMERICA
It appears that the retail apocalypse that made so many headlines in 2015 has gone to an entirely new level as we enter 2016

[afbitcoins]

You mean that chick with a beard is a dude?  

 

lol ghostplayer! Might be wrong but pretty sure one of them is a dude

[GhostPlayer]

lol ghostplayer! Might be wrong but pretty sure one of them is a dude

 Question is... which one??