[ANN] Blacknet BLN | Staking | Future of zApp & ZeFi

[Ziploc]

I like you light impact Foudation by decentalized voting eg.
Mayby lets make something like that vote system in our clients by BC possession weight ?
Allmost full transaperency and democcracy ?
Something like Heavycoin have by they vote amount of coins mined.
We can setup mint with some vote parameter. eg. You support network you can vote by having BC in wallet.
And we are troll zone free voting that way.

great idea...but to not be abused once implemented...

[IconicExpert]

see this link - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/

This Bitcoin Foundation is a Non Profit, so it is different than what everyone else is proposing. It has already been established that the BlackCoin Foundation is more like an Investment Group which is for profit. Anytime a "Foundation" is for profit, then it's effectiveness is diminished greatly.

[Nurka]

brammien, we only control our own funds. We cannot possibly exert control over millions of dollars. It is a decentralized currency. we are an investment group. We control our funds which we are currently using to help everyone as much as possible. You have caused us to rethink the use of the term foundation because it is clearly causing a lot of issues. We are an investment group. That is all. I think some people have been led astray as to what we can and cannot do.

Okay, so if you are an investment group, then will the investment group be tweeting, facebook, social media under the official blackcoin, or under another name? If your just an investment group, then that's fine, but should not be overlapping of the official pages, with investment groups pages. Like we as investment group support or don't support something is okay, but we as blackcoin foundation don't is then shown as official.

I'm okay personally with investment group, but not under official title representing the coin. If this group does well and helps coin, great. If not, then it's only investment group and not under tile of anything else. I just believe there should not be conflicting interest. I'd hope Soekip is NOT part of this group, since he's now representing the coin as figurehead. That would be huge conflict of interest.

Hum...why is an investment group seeking donations from the community?

You're an investor. Why are you seeking donations from the community?

An investment group is a group of investors. It's what you are, only in plural.

I imagine in this case, the investment group came up with an idea that required funding. They figured they could bear half of the cost themselves and then went to the community to seek donations from those who agree that the idea is worth investing in.

I thought you said you would start fresh this week and stop with the attacks?

[morituri13]

Lets just all step back a minute.

I have a few questions regarding both the Foundation and the PR firm since it is relevant to this discussion.

Can the following questions be answered without personal attacks and FUD?

1. Why does a decentralized currency need a centralized Foundation in the first place?
2. What is the mission of the Foundation?
3. What  promotional plans does the Foundation/Dev team have in place for the next several weeks until the PR firm can supply a plan?
4. Once the PR firm does supply a plan, where will the additional funding come from to execute the plan?
5. Since the community is paying for half of the PR Firm, why not let the community select their own PR firm? There are thousands of PR firm across the planet.

I do not think the community quite understands that the $30,000 the PR firm is being paid is just to offer plans and advice. It will cost an additional $70,000 - $250,000+ to put whatever plan into motion.

Iconic, Thank you for your questions. I really do appreciate them being laid out in this manner.

1.) It's not a centralized foundation. It's an investment group. I don't know how to phrase this in other terms, but imagine you had some associates who wanted to work with you in your wall street campaign. They helped raise money etc. That is all that we are..
2.) It is drafted somewhere but in more words or less it says 'we are a group of people who want to help BC gain mass adoption'
3.) The dev team is separate from the foundation and is not a team so much as one man, rat4. He does not engage in PR AFAIK. Despite widespread rumors and fear-mongering I have personally never spoken with rat4 nor seen him speak outside of the public channel. PR plans: part of the reason for hiring the firm is to help us design a strategy. Currently we are crowdsourcing at www.reddit.com/r/blackcoin for PR ideas.
4.) If additional funding is necessary we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
5.) It is not a simple matter of selecting a PR firm from a list. It is a selection process with conference calls etc leading to a pitch by the firm. I would not feel comfortable having a PR firm spend money to formulate a pitch and at the end say, "let me discuss this on the forums and see if they like it." These are real companies and are not going to waste time like that.

Additional funds will not be necessary in the short-term. The $30,000 is getting us at least 3 articles, some social media ads, etc. I cannot tell you exactly how much because I am still waiting on exactly this, a proposal with article cost, infographic cost etc. separated out.

Thank you again IE. It has been a much better day on the forums.

[brammien]

see this link - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/

This Bitcoin Foundation is a Non Profit, so it is different than what everyone else is proposing. It has already been established that the BlackCoin Foundation is more like an Investment Group which is for profit. Anytime a "Foundation" is for profit, then it's effectiveness is diminished greatly.

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

see this link - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/

This Bitcoin Foundation is a Non Profit, so it is different than what everyone else is proposing. It has already been established that the BlackCoin Foundation is more like an Investment Group which is for profit. Anytime a "Foundation" is for profit, then it's effectiveness is diminished greatly.

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

It always amuses me when I see blatant attacks against the users which built the platform that you are now using to attack them on.

[IconicExpert]

brammien, we only control our own funds. We cannot possibly exert control over millions of dollars. It is a decentralized currency. we are an investment group. We control our funds which we are currently using to help everyone as much as possible. You have caused us to rethink the use of the term foundation because it is clearly causing a lot of issues. We are an investment group. That is all. I think some people have been led astray as to what we can and cannot do.

Okay, so if you are an investment group, then will the investment group be tweeting, facebook, social media under the official blackcoin, or under another name? If your just an investment group, then that's fine, but should not be overlapping of the official pages, with investment groups pages. Like we as investment group support or don't support something is okay, but we as blackcoin foundation don't is then shown as official.

I'm okay personally with investment group, but not under official title representing the coin. If this group does well and helps coin, great. If not, then it's only investment group and not under tile of anything else. I just believe there should not be conflicting interest. I'd hope Soekip is NOT part of this group, since he's now representing the coin as figurehead. That would be huge conflict of interest.

Hum...why is an investment group seeking donations from the community?

You're an investor. Why are you seeking donations from the community?

An investment group is a group of investors. It's what you are, only in plural.

I imagine in this case, the investment group came up with an idea that required funding. They figured they could bear half of the cost themselves and then went to the community to seek donations from those who agree that the idea is worth investing in.

I thought you said you would start fresh this week and stop with the attacks?

That wasn't an attack at all, and if it appeared that way I sincerely apologize.

As for me... yes I am an investor but I am not asking the community to invest in something similar to a "hedge fund". I am asking the community to donate to projects that are community based. I have no problems letting someone else from my area help with any project I am a part of.

[morituri13]

All please be careful I feel tensions increasing. Remember BC above all:)

[brammien]

see this link - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/

This Bitcoin Foundation is a Non Profit, so it is different than what everyone else is proposing. It has already been established that the BlackCoin Foundation is more like an Investment Group which is for profit. Anytime a "Foundation" is for profit, then it's effectiveness is diminished greatly.

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

It always amuses me when I see blatant attacks against the users which built the platform that you are now using to attack them on.

I'm not attacking soekip, i'm wanting to know his position in this game? Cause right now he's the figurehead and was on the youtube video representing the coin. We can't have conflicting interests. Is he, or is he not part of the investment group?

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

brammien, we only control our own funds. We cannot possibly exert control over millions of dollars. It is a decentralized currency. we are an investment group. We control our funds which we are currently using to help everyone as much as possible. You have caused us to rethink the use of the term foundation because it is clearly causing a lot of issues. We are an investment group. That is all. I think some people have been led astray as to what we can and cannot do.

Okay, so if you are an investment group, then will the investment group be tweeting, facebook, social media under the official blackcoin, or under another name? If your just an investment group, then that's fine, but should not be overlapping of the official pages, with investment groups pages. Like we as investment group support or don't support something is okay, but we as blackcoin foundation don't is then shown as official.

I'm okay personally with investment group, but not under official title representing the coin. If this group does well and helps coin, great. If not, then it's only investment group and not under tile of anything else. I just believe there should not be conflicting interest. I'd hope Soekip is NOT part of this group, since he's now representing the coin as figurehead. That would be huge conflict of interest.

Hum...why is an investment group seeking donations from the community?

You're an investor. Why are you seeking donations from the community?

An investment group is a group of investors. It's what you are, only in plural.

I imagine in this case, the investment group came up with an idea that required funding. They figured they could bear half of the cost themselves and then went to the community to seek donations from those who agree that the idea is worth investing in.

I thought you said you would start fresh this week and stop with the attacks?

That wasn't an attack at all, and if it appeared that way I sincerely apologize.

As for me... yes I am an investor but I am not asking the community to invest in something similar to a "hedge fund". I am asking the community to donate to projects that are community based. I have no problems letting someone else from my area help with any project I am a part of.

Iconic I don't understand why you personally have to try to misdirect and twist every single thing some one says. You know it's not a hedge fund, it's a group of people seeking to promote the coin. This should make you happy, but the fact that you are stomping your feet and making a fuss is clear you have only self interests in mind. We had never once ever said anything bad about your campaigns, or your goblack website. But you are just on here full of venom spite, and a disturbing obsession with convoluting the message and taking control of it. People who act like that in my eyes do not act in the interest of the coin, and it should raise warning flags for any body who is so obsessed with destroying the efforts of others, completely unprovoked.

[IconicExpert]

see this link - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/

This Bitcoin Foundation is a Non Profit, so it is different than what everyone else is proposing. It has already been established that the BlackCoin Foundation is more like an Investment Group which is for profit. Anytime a "Foundation" is for profit, then it's effectiveness is diminished greatly.

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

It always amuses me when I see blatant attacks against the users which built the platform that you are now using to attack them on.

I do not think he meant it as an attack. It is obvious there is still some tension...so why don't leave this discussion off the table for a few days so everyone can calm down.

The Wall Street event is at the end of the month, there are a few weeks before the event. So what are we going to do in the meantime to keep forward movement?

[morituri13]

IE that is an excellent suggestion. Thank you, again.

[brammien]

I just love how you guys come across as legit concerns are attacking members. I've never said Soekip has not done a lot here, he has. We can't have a group here controlling this coin, it's decentralized, and that's the point of cryptos. Sorry if this offends you.

I'm sure if you truly think about it, you can see the logic in separation of powers and interests here. We don't need backdoor deals and people coming working officially for official coin social media also representing like they are from the foundation too.

If this throws a wrench in your plans, I'm sorry, but maybe you should have thought about this before looking to take control of the coin and consolidate your power over decisions.

[Arigard]

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

This thread is becoming more ridiculous every day. Let's put the shoe on the other foot. How about we get some transparency from Iconic? I myself paid for a Blackcoin card. I want to know exactly how much of what I paid will be his personal profit. I honestly didn't care about this until today, but as you people are so dead set on transparency when it doesn't apply to you, let's go there.

I don't see where anyone has said that the Blackcoin Foundation will be taking a profit from donations.

A group of investors brought together = investment group. That is what the foundation is.

Iconic and the Foundation are exactly the same thing, just one is a singular person, the other is a group of people who have decided to work together.

Iconic will be taking some sort of profits from his Blackcoin Cards and no-one has kicked up a fuss about this (Why should they, people need to make a living too), yet when the Foundation pre-raise money for a venture and then ask for some donations which AFAIK will all go to the projects, they get shit for it from the same people making money off of donations simply over what? jealously? vying for control over a community owned resource?

What is to stop someone thinking that Iconic is in a position of solitary power due to all of the advertising work he is doing? Nothing. Anyone that steps forward and takes the mantle of responsibility onto themselves is going to be approached and followed by people in some way, it's just natural.

Stop being counterproductive just because someone else is doing something that is getting attention, seriously, it's getting old. The sandpit is big enough for lots of kids to play in and guess what, we all own parts of the sand. No matter how big you want to make your castle and parade around it stamping down on other peoples, that sand you are building with, is the communities to shape. A small part of that community has just come together to build theirs.

[IconicExpert]

brammien, we only control our own funds. We cannot possibly exert control over millions of dollars. It is a decentralized currency. we are an investment group. We control our funds which we are currently using to help everyone as much as possible. You have caused us to rethink the use of the term foundation because it is clearly causing a lot of issues. We are an investment group. That is all. I think some people have been led astray as to what we can and cannot do.

Okay, so if you are an investment group, then will the investment group be tweeting, facebook, social media under the official blackcoin, or under another name? If your just an investment group, then that's fine, but should not be overlapping of the official pages, with investment groups pages. Like we as investment group support or don't support something is okay, but we as blackcoin foundation don't is then shown as official.

I'm okay personally with investment group, but not under official title representing the coin. If this group does well and helps coin, great. If not, then it's only investment group and not under tile of anything else. I just believe there should not be conflicting interest. I'd hope Soekip is NOT part of this group, since he's now representing the coin as figurehead. That would be huge conflict of interest.

Hum...why is an investment group seeking donations from the community?

You're an investor. Why are you seeking donations from the community?

An investment group is a group of investors. It's what you are, only in plural.

I imagine in this case, the investment group came up with an idea that required funding. They figured they could bear half of the cost themselves and then went to the community to seek donations from those who agree that the idea is worth investing in.

I thought you said you would start fresh this week and stop with the attacks?

That wasn't an attack at all, and if it appeared that way I sincerely apologize.

As for me... yes I am an investor but I am not asking the community to invest in something similar to a "hedge fund". I am asking the community to donate to projects that are community based. I have no problems letting someone else from my area help with any project I am a part of.

Iconic I don't understand why you personally have to try to misdirect and twist every single thing some one says. You know it's not a hedge fund, it's a group of people seeking to promote the coin. This should make you happy, but the fact that you are stomping your feet and making a fuss is clear you have only self interests in mind. We had never once ever said anything bad about your campaigns, or your goblack website. But you are just on here full of venom spite, and a disturbing obsession with convoluting the message and taking control of it. People who act like that in my eyes do not act in the interest of the coin, and it should raise warning flags for any body who is so obsessed with destroying the efforts of others, completely unprovoked.

Please read my previous post. I can understand your frustration, and if my use of "Hedge Fund" in some way offended you I am sorry. That was not my intention at all. I used "Hedge Fund" because a group of people pool their money together for an investment or investments. In this case it is to promote BlackCoin. So in essence it is similar to a hedge fund because part of promoting BC increase the value of everyone's portfolio, including mine.

[z3r0]

I just love how you guys come across as legit concerns are attacking members. I've never said Soekip has not done a lot here, he has. We can't have a group here controlling this coin, it's decentralized, and that's the point of cryptos. Sorry if this offends you.

I'm sure if you truly think about it, you can see the logic in separation of powers and interests here. We don't need backdoor deals and people coming working officially for official coin social media also representing like they are from the foundation too.

If this throws a wrench in your plans, I'm sorry, but maybe you should have thought about this before looking to take control of the coin and consolidate your power over decisions.

Im no expert but how are we supposed to move forward without a foundation, I know Bitcoin has had their foundation since the start. I think everybody is doing their little bit to get BC on the map. I applaud everybody!

[morituri13]

Brammien, I don't understand your concerns at this point. Should soep not be allowed to donate money to worthy causes? All the foundation does is help organize fundraising ventures. You keep saying we control something and I have asked on several occasion what that is? Twitter accounts? They are free to all, anyone can grab a twitter handle... Soep is allowed to donate and promote to  whatever and whomever he decides as are you and me.

[TheBlackDogeOfWallStreet]

brammien, we only control our own funds. We cannot possibly exert control over millions of dollars. It is a decentralized currency. we are an investment group. We control our funds which we are currently using to help everyone as much as possible. You have caused us to rethink the use of the term foundation because it is clearly causing a lot of issues. We are an investment group. That is all. I think some people have been led astray as to what we can and cannot do.

Okay, so if you are an investment group, then will the investment group be tweeting, facebook, social media under the official blackcoin, or under another name? If your just an investment group, then that's fine, but should not be overlapping of the official pages, with investment groups pages. Like we as investment group support or don't support something is okay, but we as blackcoin foundation don't is then shown as official.

I'm okay personally with investment group, but not under official title representing the coin. If this group does well and helps coin, great. If not, then it's only investment group and not under tile of anything else. I just believe there should not be conflicting interest. I'd hope Soekip is NOT part of this group, since he's now representing the coin as figurehead. That would be huge conflict of interest.

Hum...why is an investment group seeking donations from the community?

You're an investor. Why are you seeking donations from the community?

An investment group is a group of investors. It's what you are, only in plural.

I imagine in this case, the investment group came up with an idea that required funding. They figured they could bear half of the cost themselves and then went to the community to seek donations from those who agree that the idea is worth investing in.

I thought you said you would start fresh this week and stop with the attacks?

That wasn't an attack at all, and if it appeared that way I sincerely apologize.

As for me... yes I am an investor but I am not asking the community to invest in something similar to a "hedge fund". I am asking the community to donate to projects that are community based. I have no problems letting someone else from my area help with any project I am a part of.

Iconic I don't understand why you personally have to try to misdirect and twist every single thing some one says. You know it's not a hedge fund, it's a group of people seeking to promote the coin. This should make you happy, but the fact that you are stomping your feet and making a fuss is clear you have only self interests in mind. We had never once ever said anything bad about your campaigns, or your goblack website. But you are just on here full of venom spite, and a disturbing obsession with convoluting the message and taking control of it. People who act like that in my eyes do not act in the interest of the coin, and it should raise warning flags for any body who is so obsessed with destroying the efforts of others, completely unprovoked.

Please read my previous post. I can understand your frustration, and if my use of "Hedge Fund" in some way offended you I am sorry. That was not my intention at all. I used "Hedge Fund" because a group of people pool their money together for an investment or investments. In this case it is to promote BlackCoin. So in essence it is similar to a hedge fund because part of promoting BC increase the value of everyone's portfolio, including mine.

It's also implied that they actually hold on to their investments and expect a direct return. If the foundation was buying and holding BC and expecting a profit, calling it a hedge fund would be completely accurate. However these people are donating their money, and are not expecting a direct return, other than wider adoption of the coin.

Basically the foundation has 2 main tasks, protect the Blockchain and make sure that EVERYONES BlackCoin's remain safe from attacks-- this is the foremost concern of the foundation. The secondary task is promoting the worldwide adoption of BlackCoin, through relationships, partnerships, merchant adoption/courting/information and media promotions.

Foundation membership will be opened up to any one interested in joining, once we have the infrastructure in place to handle that. This infrastructure does not happen over night, and we have already started work on it. Most if not all transparency concerns will be addressed on the official website, as well as discuss our mission statement and talk about who we are (as members) and what we do.

[IconicExpert]

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

This thread is becoming more ridiculous every day. Let's put the shoe on the other foot. How about we get some transparency from Iconic? I myself paid for a Blackcoin card. I want to know exactly how much of what I paid will be his personal profit. I honestly didn't care about this until today, but as you people are so dead set on transparency when it doesn't apply to you, let's go there.

I don't see where anyone has said that the Blackcoin Foundation will be taking a profit from donations.

A group of investors brought together = investment group. That is what the foundation is.

Iconic and the Foundation are exactly the same thing, just one is a singular person, the other is a group of people who have decided to work together.

Iconic will be taking some sort of profits from his Blackcoin Cards and no-one has kicked up a fuss about this (Why should they, people need to make a living too), yet when the Foundation pre-raise money for a venture and then ask for some donations which AFAIK will all go to the projects, they get shit for it from the same people making money off of donations simply over a name?

What is to stop someone thinking that Iconic is in a position of solitary power due to all of the advertising work he is doing? Nothing. Anyone that steps forward and takes the mantle of responsibility onto themselves is going to be approached and followed by people in some way, it's just natural.

Stop being counterproductive just because someone else is doing something that is getting attention, seriously, it's getting old. The sandpit is big enough for lots of kids to play in.

Thank you for your questions and I can also understand why you can view it as a double standard. Please understand not every question from me or others are attempts at attention but legitimate questions. In regards to your question, although a private company is not required to disclose profits, I would be more than happy to share that information with you. After manufacturing, packaging, community donation ($1 per card), and worldwide shipping, my profit is roughly $5-$7 depending on the country I am shipping.

[brammien]

So, waiting to hear from Soekip on here, is he involved in this investment group? Is he not? If so, who does official tweets for Blackcoin now, and other social media? Hopefully not investment group. If Soekip is involved, i would hope community would expect him to step down immediately from either group or representation of the coin.

Lets get some transparency here, who is right now running the official BC social media, and if so, are they involved with investment group?

This thread is becoming more ridiculous every day. Let's put the shoe on the other foot. How about we get some transparency from Iconic? I myself paid for a Blackcoin card. I want to know exactly how much of what I paid will be his personal profit. I honestly didn't care about this until today, but as you people are so dead set on transparency when it doesn't apply to you, let's go there.

I don't see where anyone has said that the Blackcoin Foundation will be taking a profit from donations.

A group of investors brought together = investment group. That is what the foundation is.

Iconic and the Foundation are exactly the same thing, just one is a singular person, the other is a group of people who have decided to work together.

Iconic will be taking some sort of profits from his Blackcoin Cards and no-one has kicked up a fuss about this (Why should they, people need to make a living too), yet when the Foundation pre-raise money for a venture and then ask for some donations which AFAIK will all go to the projects, they get shit for it from the same people making money off of donations simply over a name?

What is to stop someone thinking that Iconic is in a position of solitary power due to all of the advertising work he is doing? Nothing. Anyone that steps forward and takes the mantle of responsibility onto themselves is going to be approached and followed by people in some way, it's just natural.

Stop being counterproductive just because someone else is doing something that is getting attention, seriously, it's getting old. The sandpit is big enough for lots of kids to play in.

First of all, your quoting me with dishonest things i've not said. I've said I'm okay with PR event, whatever works is fine with me. Your missing the whole dang point. It's separation of powers, and no conflicting interests. Your not getting that point, your dancing around the obvious. IE making money is fine, just like investment group, that is also fine with me. Just don't be calling yourself foundation, and going out saying Blackcoin doesn't support Wall st event, like happened before the retraction. Cause investment group as of now = foundation with official status.

This is why Soekip should not have his hands in both. If say investment group is separate and unaffilated with BC social media, then fine, they can start their own page and show they are not in support of an event, that is there business.

You, like rest of the mob, is not understanding. This isn't about Foundation vs. IE, it's about control and direction and the future of blackcoin. We are at a critical junction here, if we let a group control things with conflicting interests and pawning off as official blackcoin status, then we can't come back from this.

I'm not taking sides, I'm for decentralization, period.