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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 52178 times)
Lauda
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January 09, 2019, 07:02:43 PM
 #21

my main account is off DT2
I'll take 10% of the blame for that - I had you in my list but recently I replaced my custom list with the default for debugging purposes... so that screwed up my own eligibility and possibly some others. Will have to wait for the next month. And I'm hoping many other users will treat this change as a kick in the butt to go and set up their custom lists.
Added him back too. Time to put some more effort into list maintenance.

Note/Request: Theymos it might be worth to have a link where you can view current DT list (hierarchical) if it doesn't exist already.

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January 09, 2019, 07:03:03 PM
 #22

This change may affect how those negatives are viewed and countered. I'm guessing that more passive-aggressive countering (via exclusions) will be possible so anyone with a lemon fetish will probably not last long.

could be even worse now, what if someone  had a counter feedback and then the DT who gave him the negative trust is no longer a DT  " next month" that person will be left with only positive DT trust, same goes the other way around.

it will be a lot of work of removing counter trust.

i am willing to bet the horse that a mess of "complains" on Meta and Reputation is coming up real soon.

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January 09, 2019, 07:06:30 PM
 #23

And lauda is back and those members got tainted (spammers and scammers) with her will be in march of protests shortly.
Yeah, that's a good thing.  This is quite surprising to me, and I'm expecting a lot of chaos.  I already got a PM from someone about Timelord2067 being on DT2.

So what happens next month?  My tiny little pea brain isn't comprehending how this works, the rotating default trust thing.

i am willing to bet the horse that a mess of "complains" on Meta and Reputation is coming up real soon.
If I had a horse farm, I'd bet 'em all that you're right.

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January 09, 2019, 07:08:16 PM
 #24

I don't think you get booted off unless one of the criteria no longer applies. I could be wrong! I'm guessing the fastest way of getting kicked out will be exclusions by other DT1 members.

That's my interpretation too. But exclusion wasn't even possible previously (for DT1 members) so that's gonna be interesting. Technically a gang may form in DT1 that would exclude everyone else (sort of a 51% attack) but perhaps it can be countered by more inclusions.

it will be a lot of work of removing counter trust.

I would probably avoid posting counter trust for now and suggest to wait for next month.

So what happens next month?  My tiny little pea brain isn't comprehending how this works, the rotating default trust thing.

It will depend on how actively people use custom trust lists. I think the next month's DT1 will look different, likely larger. There's probably going to be some inclusion-begging LOL

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January 09, 2019, 07:10:33 PM
 #25

Note/Request: Theymos it might be worth to have a link where you can view current DT list (hierarchical) if it doesn't exist already.

How the hell do you not know there is a hierarchical list??


This is really simple:
Step 1) Go to the trust settings
Step 2) Scroll down and click Hierarchical view
Step 3) Ctrl+F and enter your username (Neotox in this case)

Make sure to enter depth 4 else you probably aren't going to see your name often (if at all). Also it is worth nothing that what you see might change according to your own list.


Beyond this point is pretty pointless though, the question is why? Ask dogie for help.

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Lauda
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January 09, 2019, 07:11:47 PM
 #26

I don't think you get booted off unless one of the criteria no longer applies. I could be wrong! I'm guessing the fastest way of getting kicked out will be exclusions by other DT1 members.
That's my interpretation too. But exclusion wasn't even possible previously (for DT1 members) so that's gonna be interesting. Technically a gang may form in DT1 that would exclude everyone else (sort of a 51% attack) but perhaps it can be countered by more inclusions.
It can form, yes. But this has already been the case for DT2 and has already been executed multiple times. The counters are:
1) Manual intervention by theymos.
2) Wider DT1 making 51% infeasible. Plenty of us, which trust most of each other's ratings, disagree on several issues (e.g. what kind of ratings should be sent to merit abusers and which type of abuse).

How the hell do you not know there is a hierarchical list??
That's the hierarachial list based on MY trust list, not an overview of current DT1/DT2!

How the hell did you pull out a post from 2015 so quickly?

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January 09, 2019, 07:13:14 PM
 #27

Its interesting how the biggest abuser of trust Lauda have some kind of "powers" in his/her hands.
Her/his statements is 90% non sense based and even after situation like i was were cleared and the person who firstly tagged me removed the negative feedback, i am pretty sure a person like Lauda will never re-consider his decision no matter it was already handled with a positive way.
That's not a place for me to explain what was the case and stuff like that anyway.
Yes Lauda,TMAN and owlcatz may bring good content to the forum, they may be valuable members of it, but the abuse and the damage of the trust system from their side should not be acceptable.
Especially abusing the trust system with already resolved issues ( talking about mine) both from Lauda and owlcatz.
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January 09, 2019, 07:14:15 PM
 #28

Who wants a fucking tag now? come on someone moan about my fucking language!

/s

I haven't had as much time for this place recently due to RL workloads, but I am happy to see that Theymos is dropping some innovation on DT.. lets see how long till it kicks off though

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Lauda
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January 09, 2019, 07:16:08 PM
 #29

Its interesting how the biggest abuser of trust Lauda have some kind of "powers" in his/her hands.
Maybe if you'd stop spreading lies about others and stop trying to taint their actions as 'abuse', then maybe those others would reconsider. Maybe.

It will depend on how actively people use custom trust lists. I think the next month's DT1 will look different, likely larger. There's probably going to be some inclusion-begging LOL
Do I smell a new type of Service thread? "DT1 Inclusions for sale"? Roll Eyes

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January 09, 2019, 07:16:39 PM
 #30

I would probably avoid posting counter trust for now and suggest to wait for next month.
Eh, yeah.  I just got a PM asking me to counter a neg, which I refused to do for now.  I'm not a big fan of that tactic anyway.

Edit:
<snip>
OK, since you're here:  I removed my neg on you because as I told you in my PM:

I don't happen to think you're a bad guy, or even the typical person who plagiarizes content.  I do think your posts are of very low quality, though.  However after thinking about it, I'm going to remove my feedback on you.  Not only do none of the other DT members seem to agree with me about what you did (or staff for that matter, since you weren't banned), you also got a counter-positive from DarkStar_. 

Hopefully you've learned how to cite other people's work properly, so don't make the same mistake twice.  Thank you for reporting the account sellers to me, and I hope you'll continue to bring them to my attention even after I've removed the neg.  No hard feelings.

So for anyone wondering why I de-negged Rambotnic, that's the reason.

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January 09, 2019, 07:18:36 PM
 #31

That's the hierarachial list based on MY trust list, not an overview of current DT1/DT2!
Good point... have you tried the ;dt at the end?

How the hell did you pull out a post from 2015 so quickly?
Google, of course.



It's sad to think about all of the shady people who will be making the DT1/2 list in the near future. The only people beginning to follow the criteria in the OP are going to be people who have a motive for wanting to get on DT1, and only a small amount of those motives will be for good purposes.  This will be manipulated more than the prior system IMO, just needs some time...

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January 09, 2019, 07:21:40 PM
 #32

That's the hierarachial list based on MY trust list, not an overview of current DT1/DT2!
Good point... have you tried the ;dt at the end?
Full working link for anyone that needs it (thanks ib): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dt.

It's sad to think about all of the shady people who will be making the DT1/2 list in the near future. The only people beginning to follow the criteria in the OP are going to be people who have a motive for wanting to get on DT1, and only a small amount of those motives will be for good purposes.  This will be manipulated more than the prior system IMO, just needs some time...
<…> - You must have at least 1 person directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 100.<…>
Since the above is a key factor, I’ve drawn up a list of the current standing 478 forum members that meet the >= 100 earned merit criteria (see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQdLJJLCbTBDMEdSOvOmLnpOIgGLwHTXJZX6BUWyVyY/edit?usp=sharing).
Could be prevented before it happens time, but this is a lot of names to go through.

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January 09, 2019, 07:26:54 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #33

100 earned Merit is kind of low?

Edit - After reading through the OP carefully it doesn’t seem overly difficult to get into DT1?
It’s certainly a lot more achievable than before?

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January 09, 2019, 07:27:11 PM
 #34

Sweet, there goes my account.

i would still suggest a set of rules regarding the use of the trust system, specially the negative trust, some people are tagged for silly reasons or without a reference, with the new update of the DT list it's even more important now to agree on some rules that will some how regulate the trust system so people don't get tagged for using the word "lemon".

I know this could be hard to implement, but i think it's essential, for those who trade on the forum with an account that took years to build, getting a negative trust for saying something a DT member does not like is differently unfair.

All it takes is some unhinged ramblings from Timelord2067. Wink

I can see the intent behind this, but I'm definitely feeling screwed over by bullshit feedback.

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January 09, 2019, 07:29:09 PM
 #35

First: Thank you very much. Although I am trying to understand the entire algorithm but I hope it's better version than the previous one.

Second: This is very helpful. I just created my custom trust list. Putting ;dt helped a lot to see the Default Trust rating.
#2
You can view any page as if you were using the default trust settings by putting ;dt at the end of the URL. Eg. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35;dt

Question: I am not getting something here (not sure if I disclose my trust list anyway). For this example I am considering suchmoon's trust page.

1st case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=234771;dt shows trusts from - Timelord2067, Vod, cryptodevil, philipma1957, CanaryInTheMine feedback as trusted. This is Defult trust anyway. For everyone it's same

2nd Case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=234771 (My own view) - MikeMike, Timelord2067, Vod, cryptodevil, philipma1957, peonminer, CanaryInTheMine feedback as trusted.

In the 2nd case I see MikeMike and peonminer are added member whos feedbacks are showing Trusted feedback from me. Thing is, I never added these two in my trust list (No disrespect guys, I don't know you two.). So, I am a bit confuse how these two are trusted for me?


Third: I am trying to understand the rest. So far it seems that the trust list is more dynamic now.

Well-done theymos.

I could not stand the lies against me anymore. I can not prove them wrong too. It's better I live in peace.
So, I am willingly locking mdayonliner. Thank you BitcoinTalk. Be addictive, be a Bitcoiner.
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January 09, 2019, 07:31:59 PM
 #36

2nd Case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=234771 (My own view) - MikeMike, Timelord2067, Vod, cryptodevil, philipma1957, peonminer, CanaryInTheMine feedback as trusted.

In the 2nd case I see MikeMike and peonminer are added member whos feedbacks are showing Trusted feedback from me. Thing is, I never added these two in my trust list (No disrespect guys, I don't know you two.). So, I am a bit confuse how these two are trusted for me?
People who you add to your list are DT1 for you. The people that they have added to their lists are DT2 for you. Feedbacks from both layers are visible by default.

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January 09, 2019, 07:32:16 PM
Merited by TMAN (10)
 #37

Who wants a fucking tag now? come on someone moan about my fucking language!

Please watch your language. Sir.

It's sad to think about all of the shady people who will be making the DT1/2 list in the near future. The only people beginning to follow the criteria in the OP are going to be people who have a motive for wanting to get on DT1, and only a small amount of those motives will be for good purposes.  This will be manipulated more than the prior system IMO, just needs some time...

We might have a problem if such abuse doesn't show up until the list is re-created and then we need to wait for a month until it can be fixed with inclusions or de-inclusions. But exclusions seem to be real-time so that should work reasonably well now that DT1 exclusions are possible. 51% is my main concern so far. Merit requirements could be higher too.

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January 09, 2019, 07:33:49 PM
 #38

Full working link for anyone that needs it (thanks ib): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dt.
I believe the hierarchical view would be: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full;dt

:-: Bitcointalk Public Information Project (BPIP) New stats, new reports, and a new design(done by me. Smiley)
Don't be obsessed with your desires. The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute... and a donut with no hole, is a Danish.' He was a funny guy.
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January 09, 2019, 07:36:06 PM
 #39

my main account is off DT2
I'll take 10% of the blame for that - I had you in my list but recently I replaced my custom list with the default for debugging purposes... so that screwed up my own eligibility and possibly some others. Will have to wait for the next month. And I'm hoping many other users will treat this change as a kick in the butt to go and set up their custom lists.
Added him back too.
Thanks! That was the shortest jail break ever Cheesy

I already found the first user who left fresh retaliation feedback today: SmartPayMINT.
All of a sudden 5 users who left him negative trust were put on DT, but one user who left him positive trust also added him to his trust network. I don't really get why someone would add a Jr. Member after buying an item.
I guess we'll now have to start excluding users when we leave them red trust. In this case:
Code:
~SmartPayMINT
That instantly took away the negative trust for owlcatz, Lesbian Cow and yog. With some fine tuning, this system can work Cheesy

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January 09, 2019, 07:41:23 PM
 #40

2nd Case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=234771 (My own view) - MikeMike, Timelord2067, Vod, cryptodevil, philipma1957, peonminer, CanaryInTheMine feedback as trusted.

In the 2nd case I see MikeMike and peonminer are added member whos feedbacks are showing Trusted feedback from me. Thing is, I never added these two in my trust list (No disrespect guys, I don't know you two.). So, I am a bit confuse how these two are trusted for me?
People who you add to your list are DT1 for you. The people that they have added to their lists are DT2 for you. Feedbacks from both layers are visible by default.

CanaryInTheMine includes MikeMike. Not sure about peonminer.

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