DefaultTrust changes

[Alex_Sr]

Thanks! I deleted all feedback without Reference link. From now on I'm only motivated to leave feedback and I will be very conservative!

Well, I have checked your feedback right now. Seems you have cleaned your feedback look like legitimate to me. I am not sure who have exclude you. But I think you deserve second chance. Although its depend on who excluded you. Ask TMAN for reconsideration.

I am not sure who have exclude you. But I think you deserve second chance. Although its depend on who excluded you. Ask TMAN for reconsideration.

I removed then excluded him, we had a chat about my issues - he fixed what I saw as wrong and now Alex is back on my trust-list, hopefully all issues around trust-lists can be that easy to resolve.

Thanks for your trust guys! If someone have to me any questions please write in this topic or PM.

[1714283541]

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[The Cryptovator]

hopefully all issues around trust-lists can be that easy to resolve.

I think so, we can discuss here if someone have issue with trust rating or send PM since so many new face here. It would be better discussion here instead of just increase exclusion (~) mark on custom list (if there is no obvious abuse case). Although I am new but I believe we can make a decent forum by help each other. For example I have made a thread about "Cluster2k" although he was tagged by 5 DT but there was positive feedback by SFR10 and send PM to SFR10 for reconsideration of his feedback. So he delete positive feedback and leave neutral feedback. That's way we can help each other. We should welcome newbie and help as well.

I am not angel or someone else here. So feel free to PM me if you found anything wrong on my feedback. I will try to resolve.

[Slow death]

this means that he placed these references in just one day  

Yes, I rewrote all my negative feedback in one day, as they did not contain a Reference link

P.S. I really want to get feedback from the community that I have to fix!

The most important is always be yourself, always be as honest as possible and always be sincere. most of People in the online world: forums and social networks are " actors ". Is very normal that someone is honest in the forums and social networks and in the real life this person to be some arrogant and dishonest. If you are honest in real life then you will not have problems in the online world

[LoyceV]

If leaving such feedback is a problem-tell me: "Bro is a problem!" and I will not leave such feedback!

As I wrote earlier I am still very inexperienced in matters of trust, but I'm learning fast

First: it's nothing personal. I've seen good posts from you, and although there's nothing wrong with being inexperienced when it comes to trust, I don't think you should have your first trial run when you're on DT.

It's not about sending you a PM, which indeed I could have done. You should be able to stand strong when you leave feedback. If you're wrong occasionally, it is of course good to change it when needed, but the majority of your feedback should hold strong. That also means you shouldn't just delete them the moment someone disagrees, you should be able to back it up. And if you can't, that means you shouldn't have left the feedback in the first place.

Deleting the ~dozen positive feedbacks you've left shows you're willing to learn and improve, but it also shows you couldn't make the right decision on your own.

Just my opinion of course

[The Cryptovator]

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there.  

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

[Lauda]

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there.  

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

I've sent him a PM about this. Hopefully he will respond soon.

[coinlocket$]

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there.  

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

I've sent him a PM about this. Hopefully he will respond soon.

Those guys are very good people, a lot of people started to use the trust list after the last big change.
Do you think should I remove them from DT2 cause they are no very active with feedbacks?
I can do that since the DT2 network needed active people for the good of the forum.
Interest on reading your opinion about it.

[Micio]

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there. 

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

Imho, there was no reason to leave negative feedbacks or positive feedbacks before this change. I wasn't in DT so I would not have made any difference. Since 2014, every year I received and sent feedbacks when I trusted people or I completed a transaction. From now on I'll take more care about the trust system.

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there. 

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

I've sent him a PM about this. Hopefully he will respond soon.

If there's any problem I can be removed from DT, I don't want to be an obstacle.

[Lauda]

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there. 

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

Imho, there was no reason to leave negative feedbacks or positive feedbacks before this change. I wasn't in DT so I would not have made any difference. Since 2014, every year I received and sent feedbacks when I trusted people or I completed a transaction. From now on I'll take more care about the trust system.

You should really revisit all of those ratings, especially if some of those accounts are now inactive (which makes them a liability). Maybe rewrite the ones on such accounts to neutral.

If there's any problem I can be removed from DT, I don't want to be an obstacle.

Would be great if you did what I just suggested. If you don't want to bother with it, or DT in general you can just ask coinlocket to remove you.

[KingZee]

I'm not directly affected by who and who's not on the DT list, but stalking comments here really makes me wonder if any solution is ever going to work at all if everyone keeps monitoring everyone.

Are you all seriously going through everyones include/exclude list judging the people they added, calling them out on it, and expecting them to change it?

Others brigading and openly claims against other peoples judgements to get them excluded by other users.

Like I said I personally am not concerned with any of the above, but what the fuck js up with all this drama and gossip?

Isn't this whole system designed to generate a trust list from a (not yet) large pool of people? If this keeps up then in no time we're going to have a corroborating group of people, and if that group is ever bigger than half of the full DT1, then we're back to square one.

My point is : mind your own business, Set your own DT list. You can promote it, explain why you included/excluded this and that, argue with people on your own time.

But stop witch hunting people just because you disagree with their list choices. Theres a much better solution : Use your own damn vote to exclude them. If YOU dont agree with what they did, it doesnt mean you have to incite other users to do so too. Thats the goal of trust lists. If you start judging every lost on a micro-scale, its 100% bound to be subjective to each members opinion. But if all members agree to include one member (of course without collaborating or working on some mafia trust ring), you can then trust that that member is objectively trusted by the network.

A better way to steer this threas would be to discuss ratings on a much more macro scale. Stop judging every users list, and try to come up with guidelines that will make everyones list more objective and will help create a better network. Of course I say guidelines, because thats what they are. Someone not following them might have his own reasons, but if his own reasons happen to go in the completely opposite direction of everyone then he will quickly see himself excluded from DT.. Thats how networks work.

Just my 2 cents. You can send yours to 1KingZeeW97uLvngcUA3R6QJx18Fn78ddb

[Lauda]

My point is : mind your own business
-snip-

That is nonsense and doesn't work. If you are non-DT you can set your list to full of scammers if you wish, nobody should care. if you are DT, you affect everyone and thus are responsible for keeping a proper list. If you don't, then you should be willing to accept the consequences. Your post didn't need breaking down as it is just not worth it.

[KingZee]

My point is : mind your own business
-snip-

That is nonsense and doesn't work. If you are non-DT you can set your list to full of scammers if you wish, nobody should care. if you are DT, you affect everyone and thus are responsible for keeping a proper list. If you don't, then you should be willing to accept the consequences. Your post didn't need breaking down as it is just not worth it.

By what law are the last 2 users you discussed with coinlocket$ scammers?

Unless you're saying you can single handedly judge every user on this forum objectively? Why dont we all just use your own curated list then? Make it around 10 users and call it DefaultTrust! Oh wait...

[coinlocket$]

@lauda @Coolcryptovator if I'm not wrong I also added them on my trust list before entering on DT1 so I guess their DT2 rating is also unexpected for them.

I'm still understanding what to do since I was not expected to join the dt1, my feedback was prior to my dt1 rank, so their dt2 ranks is a surprise for them, but those are good people so, on one hand, I understand why I should remove them (low feedback activity) but on the other hand I trust those people.
I probably remove them in a few hours and re-add them on near future when they will be more active for forum even if till last week we got members on dt2 inactive for years and one with red trust.

[bones261]

If you are non-DT you can set your list to full of scammers if you wish, nobody should care. if you are DT, you affect everyone and thus are responsible for keeping a proper list. If you don't, then you should be willing to accept the consequences. Your post didn't need breaking down as it is just not worth it.

I gather when you state DT, you mean only DT1. As a DT2 member, the only effect my list has is with the selection of valid DT1 candidates (Like everyone with more that 10 merits has on the forum) and if anyone cares to set their trust depth to 3 or 4.(Which is not recommended.)

[Micio]

User duesoldi added by coinlocket$,
He have left 9 positive feedback starting from 2019-01-11, and also by local language. No any reference link or no any negative feedback.

User Micio  added by coinlocket$,
Although his all feedback old. He does not leaving feedback from last 2 month but all the feedback is positive, no any negative feedback there.  

@coinlocket$ can you please revise your custom list (DT2) ?

Imho, there was no reason to leave negative feedbacks or positive feedbacks before this change. I wasn't in DT so I would not have made any difference. Since 2014, every year I received and sent feedbacks when I trusted people or I completed a transaction. From now on I'll take more care about the trust system.

You should really revisit all of those ratings, especially if some of those accounts are now inactive (which makes them a liability). Maybe rewrite the ones on such accounts to neutral.

If there's any problem I can be removed from DT, I don't want to be an obstacle.

Would be great if you did what I just suggested. If you don't want to bother with it, or DT in general you can just ask coinlocket to remove you.

Thank you for your suggestion, I appreciate the commitment but I don't want to remove any feedbacks (even if the accounts are old and inactive). These are proofs that trade went well and some users could get irritated. I think I'm using the feedback system as it should be used: send feedbacks after trades and send feedback to users I really trust. There's no reason to remove feedbacks. Anyway, if any of the users in my list or in my sent feedback list do something wrong I'll be ready to remove them or leave a negative feedback. I feel responsible for my DT list and feedback list.

I want to continue with my line of thought so it's better to be removed from DT for the moment, I don't want to bother you and any other DT member so I'm asking coinlocket$ to remove me from the list.

[The Cryptovator]

@lauda @Coolcryptovator if I'm not wrong I also added them on my trust list before entering on DT1 so I guess their DT2 rating is also unexpected for them.

I'm still understanding what to do since I was not expected to join the dt1, my feedback was prior to my dt1 rank, so their dt2 ranks is a surprise for them, but those are good people so, on one hand, I understand why I should remove them (low feedback activity) but on the other hand I trust those people.
I probably remove them in a few hours and re-add them on near future when they will be more active for forum even if till last week we got members on dt2 inactive for years and one with red trust.

You are now on DT1. You are more responsible from DT2. If you were on DT2 then it was not fact who is on your trust list. Those peoples are trusted to you then you can leave positive feedback to them. But those people's feedback's is trusted and valuable to you then include them on your trust list. For example, I have added you on my list, means I trust your feedback's that you are sending.

And you should guide them whoever on your trust list due to you are on DT1. It's extremely depend on you who will be on your trust list. I just asked to revise once again, you may ask them to revise their feedback to avoid any exclusion. Because I have seen last few days lot of DT 2 has been excluded.
Just explain them about DT network and guide them. I don't think you should remove them immediately, just give them chance to refresh their feedback.

My point is : mind your own business, Set your own DT list. You can promote it, explain why you included/excluded this and that, argue with people on your own time.

Why should extend our exclusion list if we can solve issue by discussion. Is it better just kick out some one without any explanation? I don't think so. Those are new they can learn from here and they can motivate themselves.  

[suchmoon]

Thank you for your suggestion, I appreciate the commitment but I don't want to remove any feedbacks (even if the accounts are old and inactive). These are proofs that trade went well and some users could get irritated. I think I'm using the feedback system as it should be used: send feedbacks after trades and send feedback to users I really trust. There's no reason to remove feedbacks. Anyway, if any of the users in my list or in my sent feedback list do something wrong I'll be ready to remove them or leave a negative feedback. I feel responsible for my DT list and feedback list.


I want to continue with my line of thought so it's better to be removed from DT for the moment, I don't want to bother you and any other DT member so I'm asking coinlocket$ to remove me from the list.

Trust ratings should have references. This helps other users to verify the validity of your ratings and your judgement overall. It's not a problem if a few are missing. It doesn't look good when there is not a single one. Perhaps you can revise the ratings or if you want to get off DT for now - you can always come back later when your sent trust ratings look more solid.

Keep in mind that nobody can really order you what to do so I'm just advising you how you could avoid an exclusion (which might be difficult to remove in the future) and instead earn a more credible inclusion. I feel like I need to add this disclaimer due to all this drama lately.

But stop witch hunting people just because you disagree with their list choices. Theres a much better solution : Use your own damn vote to exclude them. If YOU dont agree with what they did, it doesnt mean you have to incite other users to do so too. Thats the goal of trust lists. If you start judging every lost on a micro-scale, its 100% bound to be subjective to each members opinion. But if all members agree to include one member (of course without collaborating or working on some mafia trust ring), you can then trust that that member is objectively trusted by the network.

I think you're overreacting. Despite some contentious issues, there has been a lot of reasonable discussion as to what constitutes a good trust list. Exclusions have their uses but there is also value in getting to know the newer members and helping them understand the unfortunately clunky trust system instead of just excluding them.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I'm asking coinlocket$ to remove me from the list.

Why?  It's true a lot of your feedbacks don't have reference links, but you have a pretty solid trust page and a lot of people vouching for you.  Just be careful in the future when you're sending feedback to include a reference link and to not hand them out to just anyone.  I haven't seen your trust list, but this is the whole point of the new trust system, i.e., to have more DT members and more 'diversity' in the list.

a lot all of your feedbacks

Also the risked amounts don't seem to be credible.

I was looking at the entirety of his trust page, including feedback he got.  And yes, I agree about the risked amounts.  Truthfulness aside, that amount doesn't affect the 'strength' of the feedback, right?  I tend to not even look at the amount unless I've done a deal for a specific amount and am leaving a feedback.  Micio clearly doesn't seem to be a scammer and in fact looks to be pretty trusted.  I'm not sure the lack of reference links ought to impact that, but that's just my opinion.  I don't know anything about him or what the Italian section is like.  The members there seem to trust him a lot, and that counts for something.  

Edit:

"If you want to make a rating stronger, increase "Risked BTC". 50 extra risked BTC is equivalent to an additional rating."

OK, so it does make the rating stronger.  I thought I might have seen that somewhere, but never saw it in action I guess.

[suchmoon]

a lot all of your feedbacks

Also the risked amounts don't seem to be credible.

[Micio]

Thank you for your suggestion, I appreciate the commitment but I don't want to remove any feedbacks (even if the accounts are old and inactive). These are proofs that trade went well and some users could get irritated. I think I'm using the feedback system as it should be used: send feedbacks after trades and send feedback to users I really trust. There's no reason to remove feedbacks. Anyway, if any of the users in my list or in my sent feedback list do something wrong I'll be ready to remove them or leave a negative feedback. I feel responsible for my DT list and feedback list.


I want to continue with my line of thought so it's better to be removed from DT for the moment, I don't want to bother you and any other DT member so I'm asking coinlocket$ to remove me from the list.

Trust ratings should have references. This helps other users to verify the validity of your ratings and your judgement overall. It's not a problem if a few are missing. It doesn't look good when there is not a single one. Perhaps you can revise the ratings or if you want to get off DT for now - you can always come back later when your sent trust ratings look more solid.

Keep in mind that nobody can really order you what to do so I'm just advising you how you could avoid an exclusion (which might be difficult to remove in the future) and instead earn a more credible inclusion. I feel like I need to add this disclaimer due to all this drama lately.

I never thought about inserting reference link, it never was on top of my mind when I sent feedbacks, I'll surely care about it from now on.
Anyway, some are "I trust this user" feedback, so doesn't need reference link and some are feedback I sent to user who sent me feedback with reference link