ANTMINER S2 Discussion and Support Thread

[freebit13]

Did it improve something for the S1?

Slightly, they seemed more stable after the firmware and cgminer update.

more stable?  they are the most stable miners out there.  as long as power doesnt go out my S1 miners never go down or have problems.  running 24/7

I guess it also depends on when you bought them... I bought in January in GB6 from Sushi (3btc ea. ) and then from the first batch on the bitmaintech.com website and in the beginning they weren't quite as rock-solid as they are now... I guess.

[Biffa]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Yes thats a % calculation should be less than 1% normally at 180Mhz

If you run higher than 196Mhz then you will get higher HW errors and have just invalidated your warranty.

[Biffa]

Did it improve something for the S1?

Slightly, they seemed more stable after the firmware and cgminer update.

more stable?  they are the most stable miners out there.  as long as power doesnt go out my S1 miners never go down or have problems.  running 24/7

I guess it also depends on when you bought them... I bought in January in GB6 from Sushi (3btc ea. ) and then from the first batch on the bitmaintech.com website and in the beginning they weren't quite as rock-solid as they are now... I guess.

Later ones come with newer firmware.

[aistto]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Yes thats a % calculation should be less than 1% normally at 180Mhz

If you run higher than 180Mhz then you will get higher HW errors and have just invalidated your warranty.

thanks!
so diffA, diffR it is accepted and rejected?
why there is no diffHW?
could you tell me what is utility?

[freebit13]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Should it not technically be: HW / (diffA + diffR + diffS +HW) * 100 ?

and it would be in a % of total work, not only accepted.

[Biodom]

Does anybody think that S2 is an intermediate product before Bitmain releases S3=S1 form factor with a different chip (40nm or 28nm)?
Can S1 form factor even work with 40nm or 28nm chip? I imagine that it could, perhaps with two fans (push-pull)?
I would be thrilled to have the S1 equivalent form factor, hashing at 400-500GH/s.
It would be a huge blockbuster if it will be as reliable as S1 has been (at least in most cases).

[tzortz]

Where have you seen all this info?

Do I miss anything new?

[googlemaster1]

Does anybody think that S2 is an intermediate product before Bitmain releases S3=S1 form factor with a different chip (40nm or 28nm)?
Can S1 form factor even work with 40nm or 28nm chip? I imagine that it could, perhaps with two fans (push-pull)?
I would be thrilled to have the S1 equivalent form factor, hashing at 400-500GH/s.
It would be a huge blockbuster if it will be as reliable as S1 has been (at least in most cases).

The thing is, a simple die shrink wouldn't help efficiency THAT much I don't think, they would nee to do a bit of redesign as well in order to get better efficiency, though a die shrink would help.  They would need to go from 55nm to 20nm to stay competitive or give miners a huge incentive to buy within the next 6 months.

That said, I firmly believe that the S1 form factor is extremely important if BTC is going to succeed. The problem with having all these GIANT units is that they will only be held by small amounts of folks.  I can convince friends and family and other people interested in mining to pick up an Antminer S1 at these current prices very easily, so in that sense, its awesome.  However, the problem with these more efficient big boys is that they cost thousands of dollars.

If Bitmaintech could release a 20nm Antminer S10, or something like that, that was basically a 500 GH.S 20/28nm version with some efficiency and UI upgrades, and sell it for say, 2 btc, I think a lot of people would hop on board, and they could churn these out for at least 6-8 months.

[klondike_bar]

Does anybody think that S2 is an intermediate product before Bitmain releases S3=S1 form factor with a different chip (40nm or 28nm)?
Can S1 form factor even work with 40nm or 28nm chip? I imagine that it could, perhaps with two fans (push-pull)?
I would be thrilled to have the S1 equivalent form factor, hashing at 400-500GH/s.
It would be a huge blockbuster if it will be as reliable as S1 has been (at least in most cases).

The thing is, a simple die shrink wouldn't help efficiency THAT much I don't think, they would nee to do a bit of redesign as well in order to get better efficiency, though a die shrink would help.  They would need to go from 55nm to 20nm to stay competitive or give miners a huge incentive to buy within the next 6 months.

That said, I firmly believe that the S1 form factor is extremely important if BTC is going to succeed. The problem with having all these GIANT units is that they will only be held by small amounts of folks.  I can convince friends and family and other people interested in mining to pick up an Antminer S1 at these current prices very easily, so in that sense, its awesome.  However, the problem with these more efficient big boys is that they cost thousands of dollars.

If Bitmaintech could release a 20nm Antminer S10, or something like that, that was basically a 500 GH.S 20/28nm version with some efficiency and UI upgrades, and sell it for say, 2 btc, I think a lot of people would hop on board, and they could churn these out for at least 6-8 months.

going from 55nm to 28nm would improve efficiency by about 4x at chip level (perhaps more if they revise the design at all). The overall efficiency might increase by 3.5x to account for the power use of everything else in the BOM and the control modules

and you have to get over the idea that the S2 is 'too big'. The S1 cost 4.75BTC at first, now its about 15% of that price. The S2 is due for a pricedrop to a more realistic ~5BTC very soon if it want to stay relevant. This will drop to 3.5BTC after a month.

The biggest advantage in the S2 is some clear design improvements. these include: space for ATX psu, rack-mounting, denser chip arrangement, and 140mm fans (these are VERY good fans, more airflow than from the S1 fan but less RPM and noise)

If they come out with a new chip, I expect they will maintain the S2 profile, but pack in 4-5TH of chips.

[klondike_bar]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Yes thats a % calculation should be less than 1% normally at 180Mhz
If you run higher than 180Mhz then you will get higher HW errors and have just invalidated your warranty.

The stock speed is 196Mhz for ~990GH.
I am running at 218.75MHz for the past 49hours:     1085GH at pool, 1115GH at webUI, 2.02% hw errors       (probably drawing ~1250w from the PSU)

temps range from 48C-55C, fans range from 2400-2520

[Biffa]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Should it not technically be: HW / (diffA + diffR + diffS +HW) * 100 ?

and it would be in a % of total work, not only accepted.

No idea mate, just going by what the authors of cgminer have posted. diffS is always zero on mine anyway.

[Biffa]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Yes thats a % calculation should be less than 1% normally at 180Mhz
If you run higher than 180Mhz then you will get higher HW errors and have just invalidated your warranty.

The stock speed is 196Mhz for ~990GH.
I am running at 218.75MHz for the past 49hours:     1085GH at pool, 1115GH at webUI, 2.02% hw errors       (probably drawing ~1250w from the PSU)

temps range from 48C-55C, fans range from 2400-2520

Yes my bad, thought I was in the S1 forum

[Biodom]

Does anybody think that S2 is an intermediate product before Bitmain releases S3=S1 form factor with a different chip (40nm or 28nm)?
Can S1 form factor even work with 40nm or 28nm chip? I imagine that it could, perhaps with two fans (push-pull)?
I would be thrilled to have the S1 equivalent form factor, hashing at 400-500GH/s.
It would be a huge blockbuster if it will be as reliable as S1 has been (at least in most cases).

The thing is, a simple die shrink wouldn't help efficiency THAT much I don't think, they would nee to do a bit of redesign as well in order to get better efficiency, though a die shrink would help.  They would need to go from 55nm to 20nm to stay competitive or give miners a huge incentive to buy within the next 6 months.

That said, I firmly believe that the S1 form factor is extremely important if BTC is going to succeed. The problem with having all these GIANT units is that they will only be held by small amounts of folks.  I can convince friends and family and other people interested in mining to pick up an Antminer S1 at these current prices very easily, so in that sense, its awesome.  However, the problem with these more efficient big boys is that they cost thousands of dollars.

If Bitmaintech could release a 20nm Antminer S10, or something like that, that was basically a 500 GH.S 20/28nm version with some efficiency and UI upgrades, and sell it for say, 2 btc, I think a lot of people would hop on board, and they could churn these out for at least 6-8 months.

going from 55nm to 28nm would improve efficiency by about 4x at chip level (perhaps more if they revise the design at all). The overall efficiency might increase by 3.5x to account for the power use of everything else in the BOM and the control modules

and you have to get over the idea that the S2 is 'too big'. The S1 cost 4.75BTC at first, now its about 15% of that price. The S2 is due for a pricedrop to a more realistic ~5BTC very soon if it want to stay relevant. This will drop to 3.5BTC after a month.

The biggest advantage in the S2 is some clear design improvements. these include: space for ATX psu, rack-mounting, denser chip arrangement, and 140mm fans (these are VERY good fans, more airflow than from the S1 fan but less RPM and noise)

If they come out with a new chip, I expect they will maintain the S2 profile, but pack in 4-5TH of chips.

re OP on "too big". S2 is overpriced for its power and hashing at ~$3.2/GH with S1 currently at $1.4/GH. S2 has problems of boards falling off the rails during transport (or was it fixed already?). I don't want an expensive unit where reliability might be a problem (with flash cards on restarts, etc.). Modularity is very important, I agree with OP.

[freebit13]

how to understand the column HW in web of antminer S2?
it  is too high

HW Error Calculation Formula: HW / (diffA + diffR + HW) * 100

it is in % of accepted?
so with 212.5 Mhz i have 0.001% or 0.1% or...?

Should it not technically be: HW / (diffA + diffR + diffS +HW) * 100 ?

and it would be in a % of total work, not only accepted.

No idea mate, just going by what the authors of cgminer have posted. diffS is always zero on mine anyway.

diffS shows up at times, but it should be included for accuracy if it's there as there would have been work done on those stale shares which could have potentially caused errors.

@ aistto: WU: The Work Utility defined as the number of diff1 shares work / minute (accepted or rejected)

[freebit13]

re OP on "too big". S2 is overpriced for its power and hashing at ~$3.2/GH with S1 currently at $1.4/GH. S2 has problems of boards falling off the rails during transport (or was it fixed already?). I don't want an expensive unit where reliability might be a problem (with flash cards on restarts, etc.). Modularity is very important, I agree with OP.

Too big? The S2 is a lot smaller than 5-6 S1's and takes up a lot less space (power supply is integrated) and uses more or less half the power and I'm sure it's a lot quieter too... you can't just compare $/GH/s, what about W/GH/s?

I'm not completely satisfied with my b2 unit, but it'll do (I didn't get into mining to get rich, thankfully), I hope they fix the packaging issues for b3, I totally agree with you there.

[klondike_bar]

going from 55nm to 28nm would improve efficiency by about 4x at chip level (perhaps more if they revise the design at all). The overall efficiency might increase by 3.5x to account for the power use of everything else in the BOM and the control modules

and you have to get over the idea that the S2 is 'too big'. The S1 cost 4.75BTC at first, now its about 15% of that price. The S2 is due for a pricedrop to a more realistic ~5BTC very soon if it want to stay relevant. This will drop to 3.5BTC after a month.

The biggest advantage in the S2 is some clear design improvements. these include: space for ATX psu, rack-mounting, denser chip arrangement, and 140mm fans (these are VERY good fans, more airflow than from the S1 fan but less RPM and noise)

If they come out with a new chip, I expect they will maintain the S2 profile, but pack in 4-5TH of chips.

re OP on "too big". S2 is overpriced for its power and hashing at ~$3.2/GH with S1 currently at $1.4/GH. S2 has problems of boards falling off the rails during transport (or was it fixed already?). I don't want an expensive unit where reliability might be a problem (with flash cards on restarts, etc.). Modularity is very important, I agree with OP.

the price/GH is definitely a bit off in the S2. (keep in mind though that it uses 10x the chips as an S1, which is *almost* logical if the chips are the biggest cost). IMO it should be 5BTC right now at most, if not 4.5BTC.

my unit is a batch 2 and i had no issues in shipment or in usage. (~980-990GH stock was a smidge low of the 1TH). the rails that hold the modules are fine on mine and do the job well enough that i really wonder what went wrong with the damaged units some people received. they are small plastic slides on a metal brace, all of which seems firmly put together in my box. The PSU was new 1000W enermax GOLD, or looked like new. I have not had issues with the SD card on reboots or power cycles, but my bitfury unit used to so i am not surprised that the some of the S2 sd cards have corrupted when using cheap cards.

The S2 is rack-mountable. the hashing boards are removable (if swapping them is ever needed). I would say that is important compared to the havoc of dealing with over a dozen S1 units and their seperate power supplies and difficulty stacking. 1!1!1!1 would testify to this - all you need to do is see the difference in his racks for S1 units and S2 units. one rack is clean and gorgeous, the other is a hodgepodge of zipties, server PSUs, and power/ethernet cables.

[Biodom]

going from 55nm to 28nm would improve efficiency by about 4x at chip level (perhaps more if they revise the design at all). The overall efficiency might increase by 3.5x to account for the power use of everything else in the BOM and the control modules

and you have to get over the idea that the S2 is 'too big'. The S1 cost 4.75BTC at first, now its about 15% of that price. The S2 is due for a pricedrop to a more realistic ~5BTC very soon if it want to stay relevant. This will drop to 3.5BTC after a month.

The biggest advantage in the S2 is some clear design improvements. these include: space for ATX psu, rack-mounting, denser chip arrangement, and 140mm fans (these are VERY good fans, more airflow than from the S1 fan but less RPM and noise)

If they come out with a new chip, I expect they will maintain the S2 profile, but pack in 4-5TH of chips.

re OP on "too big". S2 is overpriced for its power and hashing at ~$3.2/GH with S1 currently at $1.4/GH. S2 has problems of boards falling off the rails during transport (or was it fixed already?). I don't want an expensive unit where reliability might be a problem (with flash cards on restarts, etc.). Modularity is very important, I agree with OP.

the price/GH is definitely a bit off in the S2. (keep in mind though that it uses 10x the chips as an S1, which is *almost* logical if the chips are the biggest cost). IMO it should be 5BTC right now at most, if not 4.5BTC.

my unit is a batch 2 and i had no issues in shipment or in usage. (~980-990GH stock was a smidge low of the 1TH). the rails that hold the modules are fine on mine and do the job well enough that i really wonder what went wrong with the damaged units some people received. they are small plastic slides on a metal brace, all of which seems firmly put together in my box. The PSU was new 1000W enermax GOLD, or looked like new. I have not had issues with the SD card on reboots or power cycles, but my bitfury unit used to so i am not surprised that the some of the S2 sd cards have corrupted when using cheap cards.

The S2 is rack-mountable. the hashing boards are removable (if swapping them is ever needed). I would say that is important compared to the havoc of dealing with over a dozen S1 units and their seperate power supplies and difficulty stacking. 1!1!1!1 would testify to this - all you need to do is see the difference in his racks for S1 units and S2 units. one rack is clean and gorgeous, the other is a hodgepodge of zipties, server PSUs, and power/ethernet cables.

You are probably right for a large operation, but for a home use few s1 are manageable. If S2 was $1800-2000, I would probably buy it instead.

[thomashrev89]

Got my two s2's today. Both where fucked up inside, Cards everywhere, bent pci slots. Plastic thingy holding the cards had about 50% survival rate.
After assembling them back together one did not start and one worked at 650Ghs. After some hours of trying different things I got two new PSU's, XFX Black Edition 1250W and RECOM 1600W(Overkill but had it laying around) One are stable at 1Ths the other is working at 920ghs with row 10 showing only lines.

I feel the s2 is a step down from s1 when it comes to build quality and overall design.
Next time pack each cards individually with bubblewrap and stick them inside the miner. Shipping the miner with the cards already in their slot is borderline retarded. 

[klondike_bar]

Got my two s2's today. Both where fucked up inside, Cards everywhere, bent pci slots. Plastic thingy holding the cards had about 50% survival rate.
After assembling them back together one did not start and one worked at 650Ghs. After some hours of trying different things I got two new PSU's, XFX Black Edition 1250W and RECOM 1600W(Overkill but had it laying around) One are stable at 1Ths the other is working at 920ghs with row 10 showing only lines.

I feel the s2 is a step down from s1 when it comes to build quality and overall design.
Next time pack each cards individually with bubblewrap and stick them inside the miner. Shipping the miner with the cards already in their slot is borderline retarded. 

mine arrived fine, and had rubber strips in the lid designed to keep the cards tight in the slots. The damaged units must be going through some rough handling - maybe a 'this side up' is necessary?

[Threader]

Shipping the miner with the cards already in their slot is borderline retarded. 

AGREED