Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[BADecker]

~

And your alternative is? Ukraine giving Putin whatever he wants? How suspiciously convenient.

~

Lol. You haven't really noticed, have you. It's more like stopping Putin from taking whatever he wants. If Putin wasn't such a nice guy, he'd have steamrollered right over Ukraine long ago. If Ukraine didn't have the help of the US and Nato - because THEY want Ukraine - the war would have been over in a month.


Big Brave Western Proxy Warriors Keep Whining That Ukrainian Troops Are Cowards


https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/big-brave-western-proxy-warriors
Reporting that Ukrainian efforts to retake Russia-occupied territory have been "bogged down in dense Russian minefields under constant fire from artillery and helicopter gunships," The New York Times reports that Ukrainian forces have switched tactics to using "artillery and long-range missiles instead of plunging into minefields under fire."

Then the article gets really freaky:

"American officials are worried that Ukraine's adjustments will race through precious ammunition supplies, which could benefit President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and disadvantage Ukraine in a war of attrition. But Ukrainian commanders decided the pivot reduced casualties and preserved their frontline fighting force.

"American officials say they fear that Ukraine has become casualty averse, one reason it has been cautious about pressing ahead with the counteroffensive. Almost any big push against dug-in Russian defenders protected by minefields would result in huge numbers of losses."
...

[1miau]

That's a great GIF about Putler sending his own Russian people ill-prepared into a meat grinder, where Putler doesn't even care how many Russians will die due to invading Ukraine.
His only goal is to grab as much land as possible, not matter how many people will die due to his unnecessary war...  

Putler when he announces mobilisation for his invasion:





I would really feel dirty to argue in favor of such a war criminal...

To the victor go the spoils, any agreement must include neutered Ukraine with terms that will put it back under RU's sphere of influence.

Wrong on so many aspects:
- Putin doesn't want security against "evil NATO" (neutral Ukraine). It's all along a scapegoat from Putin to paint "the west" as aggresive and Russia as a victim and you are falling for that manipulation.
- There wont be peace for Ukrainians even when Ukraine is completely taken over by Russia. Putler will completely erase Ukrainian culture, Ukraine as an independant state and everyone who disagrees with him. Look up his fascist speeches, he denies Ukraine any right to exist.
- Putin's goal is to capture Ukraine completely (and more, if possible because Moldova might be next) and re-build + enlarge Russia like during soviet union times.
- He's an aggressive dictator who will abuse everything as long as he gains 0,001 inches. 


But there's a simple way to end this war: Putler goes home and stops his invasion.  

[paxmao]

...

Again and again the same argument, again the same answer: giving Putler what he ask means another war in 5 years. Exactly the same as when Hitler invaded Slovakia and Czechia and Europe did nothing: Poland was next, and the the USSR. Leaders like Putin and countries with a kleptocratic government do not have limits to their ambitions. They have to be left without means of aggression.

You were lead to believe a false binary, either to become fully dependent on the west or dying, to the point where you don't even see any other alternatives. Whole point of heads of state is to foresee and select the most optimal outcome, taking into consideration geopolitics amongst all other things. The alternative was always to go back to how things were in 2013, that is UA goes back under RU's sphere of influence. And you don't really want a unipolar world anyway

No, the binary option is not "dying" or "become dependent of the west", the option is to surrender to Ruzzia or not to surrender to Ruzzia.

Option one gets Ukraine to surrender the people's right to self-governance and to choose their path and simply hand over to Ruzzia whatever land they want. This option also implies a Ruzzia that would have been successful in gaining territory by force, and obviously they would go for Lithuania, Letonia, Poland... even Finland. This does not save lives at all.

Option two means that Ukraine needs to fight for their right to keep their territory, self-govern and make sure Ruzzia understands there is nothing to win from trying to attack again. This is a situation that can actually generate a durable peace that is what actually saves lives.

Anyway, as of today, there is nothing on the front nor over the terrain that would make Ukraine have to give up in recovering territory. Ukraine is currently not loosing but making some territorial advances, while the number of loses and war supplies costs and consumption of Ruzzia at this point are far beyond what they can replenish and far beyond what its economy can handle.

If you think that Ukraine is going to just give up you are very detached from reality (you may want to ask BA to create a club).

[DaRude]

...

Again and again the same argument, again the same answer: giving Putler what he ask means another war in 5 years. Exactly the same as when Hitler invaded Slovakia and Czechia and Europe did nothing: Poland was next, and the the USSR. Leaders like Putin and countries with a kleptocratic government do not have limits to their ambitions. They have to be left without means of aggression.

You were lead to believe a false binary, either to become fully dependent on the west or dying, to the point where you don't even see any other alternatives. Whole point of heads of state is to foresee and select the most optimal outcome, taking into consideration geopolitics amongst all other things. The alternative was always to go back to how things were in 2013, that is UA goes back under RU's sphere of influence. And you don't really want a unipolar world anyway

No, the binary option is not "dying" or "become dependent of the west", the option is to surrender to Ruzzia or not to surrender to Ruzzia.

Option one gets Ukraine to surrender the people's right to self-governance and to choose their path and simply hand over to Ruzzia whatever land they want. This option also implies a Ruzzia that would have been successful in gaining territory by force, and obviously they would go for Lithuania, Letonia, Poland... even Finland. This does not save lives at all.

Option two means that Ukraine needs to fight for their right to keep their territory, self-govern and make sure Ruzzia understands there is nothing to win from trying to attack again. This is a situation that can actually generate a durable peace that is what actually saves lives.

Anyway, as of today, there is nothing on the front nor over the terrain that would make Ukraine have to give up in recovering territory. Ukraine is currently not loosing but making some territorial advances, while the number of loses and war supplies costs and consumption of Ruzzia at this point are far beyond what they can replenish and far beyond what its economy can handle.

If you think that Ukraine is going to just give up you are very detached from reality (you may want to ask BA to create a club).

How will Russia go for Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, are they leaving NATO? And if Russia can attack them despite being in NATO then why current Ukraine government wants to be in NATO? How does anyone with a thinking brain follow any of this logic? I understand that there is the propaganda push that Ukraine is somehow protecting NATO i just didn't think anyone actually believed that nonsense.

Wake up, Ukraine has about as much weight on continuing this conflict as Cuba did in the duration of the Cold war. The official reason for not delivering weapons on time is to not escalate conflict with Russia, guessing no one cares about delayed deliveries as they don't matter and don't really escalate anything by design.

US grows doubtful Ukraine counteroffensive can quickly succeed
Criticism of Kyiv’s strategy from American officials widens rift between allies at crucial time

US officials are increasingly critical of Ukraine’s counteroffensive strategy and gloomy about its prospect of success, deepening tensions between Kyiv and Washington at the most critical point in the war since Russia’s full-scale invasion.
...
progress has been slow and analysts say Ukraine will struggle to recapture significant territory before muddy ground hinders manoeuvres or its forces run out of combat power.
...
“I don’t think that you’ll hear an argument from anyone that this is going well right now or that this is heading to a place that people would view as good, but there is not much by way of plan B,” said Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation.
...
Ukrainians continued to make some small gains this week, including liberating the village of Urozhaine. But US officials are privately girding for what increasingly looks like a war of attrition that will last well into next year, while publicly reiterating continued support for Kyiv.
...
“It’s been about 10km of advance at most no matter where you look in this offensive,” said Michael Kofman, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and principal research scientist at the Center for Naval Analyses.

One point of tension between US and Ukrainian officials has centred on how Kyiv has deployed its military. US officials have encouraged Ukraine to be less risk-averse and fully commit its forces to the main axis of the counteroffensive in the south
...
Officials in Kyiv including President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and some of the Biden administration’s critics have called for the west to offer Ukraine heavy weaponry, and say the counteroffensive’s progress will remain slow unless Washington sends more long-range fire and air power to support it.

But US officials say the US does not make enough of the tactical ballistic missiles to supply the numbers that would make a significant difference on the battlefield. They have also said they are holding back the advanced long-range missiles sought by Kyiv because of concerns that their supply could escalate the conflict with Russia.
...
“So far however the opposition has not stopped or even reduced aid in the face of strong bipartisan support. What is new is the disappointing results of the Ukrainian counteroffensive so far.”

Even if Congress authorises the latest package of Ukraine funding requested by the White House, some US officials and analysts say it is unlikely that Washington will be able to offer the same level of lethal assistance to Ukraine next year, given the looming presidential election and munitions manufacturers’ longer-term schedule to increase production.

While Biden has remained stalwart in his support for Ukraine, Donald Trump, his predecessor and the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination, has pledged to end the war immediately if he is elected, while other Republican contenders for the 2024 nomination have expressed ambivalence.
...
Republican congressman Andy Harris, a co-chair of the Ukraine Caucus, had been a steadfast supporter of Kyiv’s effort, but told a town-hall meeting in Maryland this week that the counteroffensive had “failed”, saying aid for Ukraine should now be unwound.

“Is this more [of] a stalemate? Should we be realistic about it? I think we probably should,” Harris told constituents in Abingdon, Maryland, 25 miles north-east of Baltimore. “I’ll be blunt, it’s failed.”
He was also pessimistic about the course of the war, saying, “I’m not sure it’s winnable anymore.”

We don't give you what you need so not to escalate anything, but despite intelligence saying it failed you still need to send in all of your remaining troops right now. Only thing that gives me hope is despite USs pressure to be less risk-averse and send all troops to the meat grinder, Zelenskyy seems to genuinely care for his troops and now appears to be stalling to save some lives.

Edit: And you're totally fine with using Ukrainian gene pool to supposedly protect "Lithuania, Letonia, Poland... even Finland"? Isn't that cruel? To protect what other countries are you so willing to give Ukrainian souls up for? Anyone on the African or Asian continents? There are a lot of countries that could use spare souls while you're giving them away, Syria could use some spare "manpower" to protect from "evil orcs", when will Ukraine send their future to protect Syria?

[DaRude]

That's a great GIF about Putler sending his own Russian people ill-prepared into a meat grinder, where Putler doesn't even care how many Russians will die due to invading Ukraine.
His only goal is to grab as much land as possible, not matter how many people will die due to his unnecessary war...  

Putler when he announces mobilisation for his invasion:





I would really feel dirty to argue in favor of such a war criminal...

To the victor go the spoils, any agreement must include neutered Ukraine with terms that will put it back under RU's sphere of influence.

Wrong on so many aspects:
- Putin doesn't want security against "evil NATO" (neutral Ukraine). It's all along a scapegoat from Putin to paint "the west" as aggresive and Russia as a victim and you are falling for that manipulation.
- There wont be peace for Ukrainians even when Ukraine is completely taken over by Russia. Putler will completely erase Ukrainian culture, Ukraine as an independant state and everyone who disagrees with him. Look up his fascist speeches, he denies Ukraine any right to exist.
- Putin's goal is to capture Ukraine completely (and more, if possible because Moldova might be next) and re-build + enlarge Russia like during soviet union times.
- He's an aggressive dictator who will abuse everything as long as he gains 0,001 inches.  


But there's a simple way to end this war: Putler goes home and stops his invasion.  

You seem unable (or unwilling?) to differentiate between a president of a nation deciding to send in his own troops and anticipating losses, and a separate nation anticipating losses for Ukraine and envisioning that those losses would be acceptable if their goals are reached  "U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials."

You will continue to stay in your comfortable state of bewilderment (of orcs and nazis, Russia is just doing land grab, wants erase UA), until you decide to really want to figure out what's going on, how it's playing out, and what outcomes are even possible (fair warning, you'll be disappointment, without the rose glasses world is not a fair place, everyone is fighting dirty and some nations simply just being used to change spheres of influence in the bigger geopolitical game, if president is not strong enough to play both sides).

China helping to arm Russia with helicopters, drones and metals

Russian firms have received tens of thousands of Chinese shipments since the war in Ukraine began

China is helping to arm Russia with helicopters, drones, optical sights and crucial metals used by the defence industry, a Telegraph investigation has found.

Russian firms – including sanctioned companies – involved in the production of missile launchers, armoured vehicles, and strategic bombers, have received tens of thousands of shipments from China since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine began through the first quarter of this year.
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Trade between China and Russia is set to surpass $200 billion this year, a new record high, even as Chinese exports to other countries have fallen significantly.

Exports of goods with potential military uses rose by more than three times in the year which ended this June, compared to the one prior, according to analysis from the Observatory of Economic Complexity, a trade data visualiser.
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One Chinese company sent 1,000 drones to Russia in the two months before the war, according to figures compiled by Molfar Global, an open source research organisation.
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Then, four days after war broke out in Ukraine, Chinese company Hems999 supplied two helicopters. Another Chinese firm, Tianjin Huarong Aviation, has transferred four Airbus helicopters to Russia since the war began.
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Russian imports of raw materials soar
Chinese exports of turbojets and radar missile navigation systems have also been sent via India and Costa Rica before being re-exported to Russia, according to Molfar research, in an apparent effort to evade sanctions.
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Chinese companies also sent deliveries of magnesium alloys to Tupolev, which builds and helps maintain long-range bombers like the Tu-95 and Tu-160M, which have been used to launch cruise missile attacks on Ukraine.
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Companies linked to the production of Kamaz vehicles – whose armoured carriers, like the Kamaz Typhoon, transport Russian troops and cargo – have received at least 520 shipments from China.
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Some of the Chinese firms, such as Wuxi Tianxing Steel and Xi’an Alpha Metal even have offices in Moscow or company websites in Russian, making little effort to hide their military links, splashing pictures of fighter jets and naval ships on their homepages.
...
Beijing and Moscow, have reportedly held secret talks with Iran to supply ammonium perchlorate, a chemical compound used to propel ballistic missiles – a deal, if agreed, that would likely be hidden from official trade registers.

[1miau]

But there's a simple way to end this war: Putler goes home and stops his invasion.  

You seem unable (or unwilling?) to differentiate between a president of a nation deciding to send in his own troops and anticipating losses, and a separate nation anticipating losses for Ukraine and envisioning that those losses would be acceptable if their goals are reached  "U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials."

You seem unable (or unwilling?) to understand the whole situation: on one side, Putin invaded Ukraine and sent his own troops, no matter how many lives will be lost - and on the other side Ukraine who is left between the choice of defending their coutry or getting taken over by Russia, and whoever doesn't kiss Putin's ass will get deported to Siberia (or getting directly send into Putler's ongoing war as cheap cannon fodder, like Putler does with his Donbas Russian speaking Ukrainians, he claimed to "liberate". They are his new cannon fodder to keep his war going...)  

You will continue to stay in your comfortable state of bewilderment (of orcs and nazis, Russia is just doing land grab, wants erase UA), until you decide to really want to figure out what's going on, how it's playing out, and what outcomes are even possible (fair warning, you'll be disappointment, without the rose glasses world is not a fair place, everyone is fighting dirty and some nations simply just being used to change spheres of influence in the bigger geopolitical game, if president is not strong enough to play both sides).

You will continue to parrot even the biggest nonsense Russian propaganda, because it's very easy in your safe basement to deny Ukrainians any self-defense, to deny Ukrainians any delieveries of weapons to push back Russian orcs, to deny Ukrainians any Patriot systems to shoot down Russian missiles which Putler is deliberately using to bomb Ukrainian civilians every day.
Because Putin trolls like you are safe in their basement and don't get your houses bombed like Putler does with Ukrainians.
You won't be affected in case Putler takes over Ukraine but Ukrainians will be affected.
Keep ignoring the reality that Ukrainians don't want to be enslaved by Putler and keep ignoring the fact that Kremlin trolls like you are complicit for every missile Putler is able to bomb Ukrainian civilians with.  

China helping to arm Russia with helicopters, drones and metals

Russian firms have received tens of thousands of Chinese shipments since the war in Ukraine began

Many thanks for pointing out that China is complicit and fueling the Russian invasion against Ukraine.

[BADecker]

How dire is the Ukraine situation getting to be? Check this out.


Ukrainian Parliament Poised to Legalize Porn Production, Claims Will Help Fund Military


https://www.infowars.com/posts/ukrainian-parliament-poised-to-legalize-porn-production-claim-will-help-fund-military/
Measure 9623 would amend Article 301 of Ukraine's criminal code, which Zheleznyak called "nothing short of stupidity." It does not change anything pertaining to child pornography, human trafficking, or prostitution.

"We are not even talking about OnlyFans, but about consuming this content in general," he told the Kiev Post, adding that sending someone to prison for up to eight years for sending or receiving nudes is a Soviet legacy.

Thousands of Ukrainians are actively employed in the production of pornography. According to Zheleznyak, the state received over 34 million hryvnia ($920,000) in taxes in the first half of 2023 from sites such as OnlyFans, whose majority owner is Ukrainian-American businessman Leonid Radvinsky.

A charity using nudes to raise funds for the Ukrainian military has also helped with the initiative. Called 'Teronlyfans', the group rewards those who donate to the armed forces or refugees with spicy photos.
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[be.open]

Meanwhile, summer is coming to an end and it is time to take stock of the Ukrainian spring-summer counteroffensive. In short, it failed miserably. Ukraine failed to achieve its stated goals - to cut the land corridor to the Crimea and reach the Sea of Azov. The Armed Forces of Ukraine got stuck in the first line of defense and suffered terrible losses in manpower and armored vehicles. Ukraine has no more unspent strategic reserves left, a couple of weeks ago the 82nd airborne brigade was thrown into battle, the last of nine brigades trained in the West for the counteroffensive, which was supposed to be introduced into the breakthrough, but now she herself is forced to fight for the organization of the breakthrough. At the same time, in the north, Russia is pressing menacingly on the Kupyansk direction and is apparently preparing its own offensive. For Ukraine, all this looks very shitty.

[BADecker]

Probably the only real mission the US has in Ukraine has to do with finishing the bio-weaponry research the US has been doing there. A second would have been dismantling Russia... if they had been able to do it. A third might have to do with the three big US companies that bought up like 60% of Ukraine farmland. Some people, including Joe and Hunter, are and have been making big money out of Ukraine, both before and during the war.


The US Has No Clear, Achievable Goal In Ukraine, Nor Does Anyone Else


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-has-no-clear-achievable-goal-ukraine-nor-does-anyone-else
Minus the troops, the setup in Ukraine is starting to look like the US fiasco in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.

None of hose actions had a clearly defined mission that was remotely achievable. Ukraine doesn't either.

What is the US Mission?

Stop Russia?

Win back all the territory Ukraine lost?

Get Ukraine in NATO?

If the mission is for Ukraine to win back all lost territory, then progress is torturously slow and haphazardly thought out.
...

[paxmao]

~

And your alternative is? Ukraine giving Putin whatever he wants? How suspiciously convenient.

~

Lol. You haven't really noticed, have you. It's more like stopping Putin from taking whatever he wants. If Putin wasn't such a nice guy, he'd have steamrollered right over Ukraine long ago. If Ukraine didn't have the help of the US and Nato - because THEY want Ukraine - the war would have been over in a month.

...

IF is the keyword BA. IF Trump is elected while in prison, IF NATO would not support Ukraine, IF Putin's intelligence services had gotten the climate in Ukraine right... IF IF IF. But that is not what was there, so thanks again for providing an alternative reality in the name of all fiction writers that might be reading your posts.

So, not a crack, just a dude having that type of happy moment in public - not only not an official posture or comment, but something that he had to take back minutes after he said it.

Let's speak of cracks, real cracks: But BA, which of 39 felonies indicted to Trump would you say is going to be the easies to prove? I am saying this because they are using the RICO legislation - this is used for drug gangs, pimps & slavery networks and many other crimes committed by an organised group.

This means that penalties are around 20 years per each individual involved and as of now the count is around 19. Tell me BA, how many "cracks" do you think are going to happen here? How many will start speaking for immunity?

Really?
I bet he was ordered to "test waters"

Well, then.. waters tested, they seem a bit deep for your taste I suppose?

The thing is that you can choose the narrative that best suits you wishful thinking, but it is very rare for a country that is advancing an liberating ground to seek a deal. Eventually stuff meets reality and is crushingly defeated.

[BADecker]

~

And your alternative is? Ukraine giving Putin whatever he wants? How suspiciously convenient.

~

Lol. You haven't really noticed, have you. It's more like stopping Putin from taking whatever he wants. If Putin wasn't such a nice guy, he'd have steamrollered right over Ukraine long ago. If Ukraine didn't have the help of the US and Nato - because THEY want Ukraine - the war would have been over in a month.

...

IF is the keyword BA. IF Trump is elected while in prison, IF NATO would not support Ukraine, IF Putin's intelligence services had gotten the climate in Ukraine right... IF IF IF. But that is not what was there, so thanks again for providing an alternative reality in the name of all fiction writers that might be reading your posts.

Thank you for agreeing with me. You seem to be all about IFs all of a sudden. So you agree that:

IF Putin wasn't such a nice guy - agreeing with me that Putin is a nice guy...

If Ukraine didn't have the help of the US and Nato - agreeing with me that Ukraine DOES have the help of the US and Nato...

because THEY want Ukraine - agreeing with me that the US and Nato want Ukraine for themselves (or at least for the US).

But that's about all you can do right? Your attempt to make 'IF' into a semantics thing simply shows that you understand that "Putin good, Zelensky bad," and "that Ukraine is nothing without the US," and "that Ukraine is a proxy for the US in a war with Russia," and "that Ukraine is essentially done for," and "that Russia has become much stronger through this whole affair," and "etc., etc."

Nobody minds that you play your game, whatever it is. But the question is, do YOU even realize that all you are doing is playing a game?

So, not a crack, just a dude having that type of happy moment in public - not only not an official posture or comment, but something that he had to take back minutes after he said it.

Let's speak of cracks, real cracks: But BA, which of 39 felonies indicted to Trump would you say is going to be the easies to prove? I am saying this because they are using the RICO legislation - this is used for drug gangs, pimps & slavery networks and many other crimes committed by an organised group.

This means that penalties are around 20 years per each individual involved and as of now the count is around 19. Tell me BA, how many "cracks" do you think are going to happen here? How many will start speaking for immunity?

Really?
I bet he was ordered to "test waters"

Well, then.. waters tested, they seem a bit deep for your taste I suppose?

The thing is that you can choose the narrative that best suits you wishful thinking, but it is very rare for a country that is advancing an liberating ground to seek a deal. Eventually stuff meets reality and is crushingly defeated.

Russia simply withheld themselves taking Ukraine long ago. It wasn't their goal to take Ukraine. All they were doing was attempting to liberate a portion of Ukraine from dirty military tactics of a corrupted Ukrainian government. And that's all they are STILL doing... except that the US might push Russia into REAL war.

Now that the US and Nato stepped in, and simply agitated Russia and surrounding countries that are aligned with Russia, Ukraine will probably be destroyed, and Russia might even take down the US dollar.


U.S. facing worsening ammo shortage while trying to keep up with Ukraine’s demands


https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-08-22-us-facing-ammo-shortage-demands-of-ukraine.html
The United States has shipped more than two million 155mm shells to Ukraine and now wrestles with the problem of restocking its arsenal of artillery munitions and building new production lines.

According to reports, the U.S. Department of Defense is neck-deep in its efforts to keep up with Ukraine's demands. Failure to sustain current production levels could jeopardize security on the home front, the reports warned.

Due to Ukraine's astonishing hunger for artillery ammunition, U.S. military contractors are expected to double the rate of standard NATO artillery round production recorded before Ukraine launched its counter-offensive last June.

America's bid to restock its arsenal is hampered by a shortage of raw materials, particularly the explosive TNT which it no longer produces. Much of the TNT is obtained from Poland.

The U.S. also lost a production partner when the region where the factory was located voted to become part of Russia in last year's referendum. Now, the U.S. is searching for new suppliers, including Japan.

To avoid future shortages, an unnamed Pentagon official suggested maintaining a "consistent high demand" for ammunition.

The Pentagon should "continue to procure at that level over a longer period of time so that we have not just healthy stocks, but a healthy production and industrial base that's able to meet them," the individual told the press.

The Pentagon hopes to increase output to one million shells per year by the fall of 2025.

"One of the lessons learned out of the Ukrainian experience is we need to go back and revisit those minimum standards [for ammunition stocks]. And we may have underestimated," Army Secretary Christine Wormuth told reporters last month.

Most Americans oppose additional aid for Ukraine
...

[suchmoon]

Looks like Progozhin and Utkin - the two leaders of the Wagner group - have died in a plane crash near Moscow, which of course was a total accident, perhaps a pilot error, but totally definitely not e.g. shot down by a SAM.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mercenary-chief-prigozhin-in-plane-crash-wagner-rcna101443

You gotta give it to the "nice guy" Putin, this is far more elaborate than falling out of a window of a tall building, or poisoning.

[OgNasty]

Wagner Group linked media has published video of the crash. You can see it here.

https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1694405718005428714

Their report is that the plane carrying the Russian mercenary chief was shot down, which I believe the video shows. It is pretty crazy to me that this still happens in this day and age. I can’t remember global politics ever being this big of a shit show.

[TwitchySeal]

Wait I thought Putin and his chef staged the whole attack on the military command central and target practice on Russian helicopters while  marching towards moscow was all an act to expose disloyalty and therefore did not reflect any weakness from Putin in any way.

Oh wait that was just another hot be.open take.

You gotta give it to the "nice guy" Putin, this is far more elaborate than falling out of a window of a tall building, or poisoning.

Maybe they threw the pilot out the window.

[LTU_btc]

It's already confirmed about death of Prigozhin on official Russian media, no information about Utkin yet.

Looks like Progozhin and Utkin - the two leaders of the Wagner group - have died in a plane crash near Moscow, which of course was a total accident, perhaps a pilot error, but totally definitely not e.g. shot down by a SAM.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mercenary-chief-prigozhin-in-plane-crash-wagner-rcna101443

You gotta give it to the "nice guy" Putin, this is far more elaborate than falling out of a window of a tall building, or poisoning.

I think that after what happened on 23-24th June, many of us have thought how and when it will happen. He didn't accudentally fallen out of the window or didn't drink tea with poisons. Shooting down plane looks symbolic, considering that during mutiny, Wagner shot down few helicopters and airplane.

[darkangel11]

Putin is known for eliminating his opponents. Prigozhin was dumb to return to Russia after that failed coup, which of course wasn't a coup but a way to make Ukrainians celebrate. Prigozhin was "obviously" moved to Belarus to plan an attack on Poland and make NATO forces focus on that border instead of Ukraine...

They're now sending a governor there to assist in the investigation of the crash

-Hey, governor, what do we write in the report?
-Technical difficulties
-But there's a hole in the wing!
-Technical difficulties with the wing. You can add they hit a big bird, or something.

[BADecker]

Putin is known for eliminating his opponents. Prigozhin was dumb to return to Russia after that failed coup, which of course wasn't a coup but a way to make Ukrainians celebrate. Prigozhin was "obviously" moved to Belarus to plan an attack on Poland and make NATO forces focus on that border instead of Ukraine...

They're now sending a governor there to assist in the investigation of the crash

-Hey, governor, what do we write in the report?
-Technical difficulties
-But there's a hole in the wing!
-Technical difficulties with the wing. You can add they hit a big bird, or something.

And more news about it. It wasn't Prigozhin that died (maybe).


Expert warns fake Prigozhin body double may be on board crashed jet


https://www.themirror.com/news/world-news/expert-warns-fake-prigozhin-body-69634
Anyone rejoicing that Wagner Boss Yevgeny Prigozhin may have died in a fiery plane crash should hold back on the fireworks as one expert has warned it could have been a body double aboard the plane.

The notorious mercenary boss, whose gang of blood thirsty soldiers has been blamed for warcrimes from Ukraine to Mali, is 'feared' dead in a plane crash along with 10 people on board.

This came after the 62-year-old billionaire led a coup against Vladimir Putin's Russian regime exactly two months ago and had been warned that his life was in danger. Putin has long reacted brutally to betrayal actual or merely perceived.
...

[paxmao]

It's already confirmed about death of Prigozhin on official Russian media, no information about Utkin yet.

Looks like Progozhin and Utkin - the two leaders of the Wagner group - have died in a plane crash near Moscow, which of course was a total accident, perhaps a pilot error, but totally definitely not e.g. shot down by a SAM.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mercenary-chief-prigozhin-in-plane-crash-wagner-rcna101443

You gotta give it to the "nice guy" Putin, this is far more elaborate than falling out of a window of a tall building, or poisoning.

I think that after what happened on 23-24th June, many of us have thought how and when it will happen. He didn't accudentally fallen out of the window or didn't drink tea with poisons. Shooting down plane looks symbolic, considering that during mutiny, Wagner shot down few helicopters and airplane.

It would not surprise anyone tbh, anyone can defy and speak whatever about Putin, as long as they do it in private, better if is just to themselves, and better if it is only in their minds.

The fact that someone casually captured a video of the plane falling is similar to have a public execution. It is easier than having to manage to put some Polonium near the guy, which would have been the other way of signing this unmistakeably.

[suchmoon]

And more news about it. It wasn't Prigozhin that died (maybe).

I thought your were a big fan of Putin's "new world order". Why backpedal now? Own it, a deranged dictator doing deranged things, that's exactly what you've been shilling here for 200+ pages.

[paxmao]

And more news about it. It wasn't Prigozhin that died (maybe).

I thought your were a big fan of Putin's "new world order". Why backpedal now? Own it, a deranged dictator doing deranged things, that's exactly what you've been shilling here for 200+ pages.

He has vouched for two dictators if I may and both of them trying to hide under the umbrella of presidential regimes. One of them, Putler, has successfully achieved the transition for a more or less participative regime - take with salt -  to a fully personalised military dictatorship. The other one has tried really hard to move from a participative regime - with a weighty plutocratic influence - to a fully personalised populist regime. This later, Grumpy Trump, has failed in the first attempt.