New Official AMT Thread

[FrictionlessCoin]

Is there any evidence of a 1.2THs working that is stable?

I know only of a 520 GHs system working reliably.

Bitmine will only sell systems that is below 800 GHs.

There is no evidence at this time of an AMT system that runs reliably at 1.2THs.

I am guessing that the A1 chip for now at least needs to be ran at lower speed for best stability/life. Ergo BMch's only selling 800's. Also note that the Dragon is also sold as 1-1.2TH implying they prefer the slow rate.

Well, then maybe they need to bump up the # of chips per board if possible or add another blade. Say maybe 10 per-board vs 8. Hmm, wonder how that balances the GH/W figure?

Maybe you can't build such a system without requiring a power draw the exceeds most residential wiring.

[mrpark]

AMT, you haven't elected to take my (good) advice before but I will say one more time what I think you should do here if you want to stay in business and restore your credibility to this community.

(1) Make a decision about what to offer us, and make sure you can fulfill your promises.  Make the decision and announce it ASAP, preferably today as most of us are growing skeptical and tired of this.  Just decide what you are going to do, and do it.  Asking for our opinion is nice, but at this point you have enough data to decide.  And ANY option listed is better than more delay and more lack of information and uncertainty.

(2) If you are giving us a choice, give a deadline for that choice and a default option if no choice is made.  Again, lets avoid more delay.

(3) If you are shipping, you should include in your announcement what you will be shipping or offering to ship (800 Gh/s working units? non-working parts? the faulty systems assembled but unable to has at 1.2 Th/s?, or preferably 1.2 Th/s working systems as promised.. ).  , an absolute last day for delivery (or tier deliveries by order number) but no big ranges here, and shipping notices when they go out (preferably post all shipping tracking numbers here).  We need shipping dates that are soon, real, and verifiable (e.g., if you say orders 900-1000 go out on May 10, then I should be able to ask anyone in that order range if they got shipping notice and they should say yes).  Meeting your shipping commitments is the only way you will regain any credibility.  Missing them or failing to provide them will only increase distrust and make us believe the worst.

(4) Give us your compensation plan.  As with Black Arrow and KNC, it can be subject to change but it should be "real".  Note that BA increased hash rate by 1/3 (they will be shipping 3 Th/s for every 2 Th/s ordered) and KNC doubled hash rate.  Your comp plan should be in line with the competition if you hope to regain credibility.  In any event, tell us what it is and again, only make promises you will keep.

(5) You owe us an explanation of what happened.  I can guess parts of it, but there are a lot of things that seem very fishy viewed from the outside.  Your explanation should include why only 2 weeks before scheduled deliveries you were saying you were on track for on time deliveries; why you have had so many long periods of silence; etc.  You should also include processes you have put in place to prevent the same issues in the future.  This explanation will also help us understand whether you can credibly make ANY commitment for future delivery, as we will know what happened and how you have fixed the problem(s).

You should notice how BFL has regained some credibility despite problems at least as bad or worse than yours initially.  They are still very late, but they provide all of the info I am asking you to provide and that lead me to order from them again despite their past.  Right now, you rank pretty far below BFL (maybe equal to BFL at its worst).  Its not hard to recover though it will take time and a practice of meeting commitments without exception in the future - assuming you want to stay in business.

+1 - Anything to end the saga here.

[mrpark]

To summarize everyone's concerns on this thread, the reality is that we can all go out today and buy 1Th/s miners for $2,500 now.  Those of us who paid $6,000 for the 1.2Th/s have lost about 2/3s of our money already. Yes, as you say you got screwed and are passing that along to us now.  Our goal right now is how to recoup that last 1/3 of the investment we have, if any more  times goes by it will basically be close to zero. Much like my litecoin machine that is making 29 cents a day. I guess nobody has to worry anymore at that point.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Is there any evidence of a 1.2THs working that is stable?

I know only of a 520 GHs system working reliably.

Bitmine will only sell systems that is below 800 GHs.

There is no evidence at this time of an AMT system that runs reliably at 1.2THs.

I am guessing that the A1 chip for now at least needs to be ran at lower speed for best stability/life. Ergo BMch's only selling 800's. Also note that the Dragon is also sold as 1-1.2TH implying they prefer the slow rate.

Well, then maybe they need to bump up the # of chips per board if possible or add another blade. Say maybe 10 per-board vs 8. Hmm, wonder how that balances the GH/W figure?

Maybe you can't build such a system without requiring a power draw the exceeds most residential wiring.

Well, yes we *are* talking about the max per standard 110v plug/circuit...
They need to emphasize that in a home setting these are what would be classified as a large appliance as far as power draw goes. Preferably use a 220v circuit like one has to if they say, buy a welder. Just how it goes.

[FrictionlessCoin]

To summarize everyone's concerns on this thread, the reality is that we can all go out today and buy 1Th/s miners for $2,500 now.  Those of us who paid $6,000 for the 1.2Th/s have lost about 2/3s of our money already. Yes, as you say you got screwed and are passing that along to us now.  Our goal right now is how to recoup that last 1/3 of the investment we have, if any more  times goes by it will basically be close to zero. Much like my litecoin machine that is making 29 cents a day. I guess nobody has to worry anymore at that point.

Yes, this is a bad situation.  I had an option of buying Cointerra at the time,  but based on delivery schedules,  I mistakenly selected AMT.

Now AMT over 2 months late and still can't deliver.

[eightcylinders]

Is there any evidence of a 1.2THs working that is stable?

I know only of a 520 GHs system working reliably.

Bitmine will only sell systems that is below 800 GHs.

There is no evidence at this time of an AMT system that runs reliably at 1.2THs.

I am guessing that the A1 chip for now at least needs to be ran at lower speed for best stability/life. Ergo BMch's only selling 800's. Also note that the Dragon is also sold as 1-1.2TH implying they prefer the slow rate.

Well, then maybe they need to bump up the # of chips per board if possible or add another blade. Say maybe 10 per-board vs 8. Hmm, wonder how that balances the GH/W figure?

Maybe you can't build such a system without requiring a power draw the exceeds most residential wiring.

Well, yes we *are* talking about the max per standard 110v plug/circuit...
They need to emphasize that in a home setting these are what would be classified as a large appliance as far as power draw goes. Preferably use a 220v circuit like one has to if they say, buy a welder. Just how it goes.

Lol, if they are really planning a 2.4 Th/s unit for delivery anything in the next decade, they better be buying and reselling Spondoolies chips, or else plan on using a self-sustaining cold fusion power source.

[opieum2]

With the whole hashfast, BFL and cointerra situations and pretty much every american manufacturer dealing with various delays and shady activity, any honest and transparent action is what will set them apart. IF and this is a big IF, AMT can actually deliver on any promises they make this time, within a reasonable time-frame, that might be the one thing that sets them apart. This is not the buyers fault. We all bought into something that has not happened. We paid money for hardware that failed consistently. If we get the existing hardware we have exchanged and replaced with the allegedly better designs, is there some kind of written warranty or guarantee we can hold AMT accountable to? At this point its a safe bet that we need anything said in writing and official for us to be able to feel like this is going to work. But at the very least getting us hardware that works consistently and is tested before leaving the assembly plant.

For all these other companies the writing is on the wall. Hashfast is headed towards insolvency, cointerra might be as well. BFL is an unknown. If AMT is looking to stay in business then regain the credibility by delivering this time around with more transparency and committing and keeping to a timeline and delivering well tested hardware that hashes exactly as advertised. Yes the occasional bad board is to be expected but the quality control should be there to catch 95 percent of the bad stuff.

If AMT wants to really do right by us then the best thing is to start showing off the new board working (videos, photos) and a committed timeline. If the vendor is reliable and has a reputation of reliability that makes it even better for us as well. Since you obviously are going through them to assemble this. Hopefully this is a vendor the community is familiar with and we can start hoping for better hardware to replace the bad stuff.

The upshot is then you become the sole mining hardware company that has delivered working hardware that works as advertised (discounting the previous fiasco). There are those who dont care and woudl see you fail and consistently post as they have no vested interest. They don't care that we put money into this. Others who have another angle like a lawsuit, also stand to lose even tho they lose anyway if it goes through. In fact we all lose. But if you can get us more info and commitments you will keep this time and maybe even we hear it from the vendor you sourced to who is doing the work it might be a better assurance for us to feel we are going to get results. 

[mrpark]

I've got this 58 lb brick of government cheese in a box coming back to me from AMT. (actually at least you can eat Govt. cheese).  Please advise.

[eightcylinders]

Rik: You said it's good AMT is trying to solve these problems instead of "going out of business" because if they do so "people won't receive a dime".

This is pure unfounded bullshit.

A judge can demand garnishment the wages of those responsible to get the plaintiffs paid back. They can also take control of their assets in order for these monies to be paid back.

[snip]

A legal solution has a lot of uncertainty to us, so IF AMT is finally realizing that they need to treat as us partners and customers rather than fools (admittedly a big question mark on that), then working something out with AMT is better IMHO.

For those of you who are in the lawsuit, or thinking about it, consider and ask your lawyer about each of the following:

(1) It will take at least a year to get a judgment that can be enforced.  By then, how much will the inventory that AMT has be worth? Probably not much.

(2) Yes, you can garnish wages and such in order to collect from the individuals, but ONLY if you can prove fraud or "pierce the corporate veil" which protects individuals from liability.  This is very hard to do, though not impossible.  And you are assuming that the individuals involved will have sufficient assets.  Overpromising and making mistakes does not equate to fraud.  You would need to show that the individuals involved knew they could not deliver and lied to cover it up.  Possible, but hard to prove.

(3) The legal fees involved in getting to a judgment and then collecting that (especially if you have to pursue the individuals through a fraud or piercing the corporate veil claim) will be very high.  Ask your lawyer for an estimate, but I would guess nothing less than $500,000 if you include collection expenses, or maybe 50% if they take it on contingency.  This will decrease substantially what you can get and will require the lawsuit folks to foot a big bill.  Even on contingency, you may still have to pay expenses which can be many times what a 1.2 Th/s miner would cost.  

(4) If AMT files for bankruptcy, you have a big legal mess (read: expensive and unlikely to collect).  The lawsuit will go away, and instead you will have an unsecured claim, and the court will liquidate the assets usually in fire sale fashion for next to nothing.  Legal costs will likely eat up any assets.  On the plus side, in a bankruptcy the trustee will pursue claims for fraudulent conveyance and preference to the extent that assets were transferred out of AMT, but the issue of getting recovery and the costs and time of getting recovery still remains substantial.

I think that if AMT is really a big scam (as opposed to being honest but less than competent), our best bet is to pursue criminal remedies and write off the miners as a loss.  Some have already moved in that direction I know.  For myself, I am waiting to see what AMT does now that they are at least appearing to recognize what they need to do.  

Having said all that, another period of silence, another set of false promises, or any more obfuscation and I think we have no other choice.  But my advice to all is to give AMT this last chance.  We have nothing to lose, as it is lost already if there has been fraud.

[rik_khaos]

Rik: You said it's good AMT is trying to solve these problems instead of "going out of business" because if they do so "people won't receive a dime".

This is pure unfounded bullshit.

A judge can demand garnishment the wages of those responsible to get the plaintiffs paid back. They can also take control of their assets in order for these monies to be paid back.

You all have become so desperate for a solution from AMT, you are about to let them get away with not delivering on what they promised.

Believe it or not, I'm sure they will walk away with money in their pockets from this "solution" for you all. AMT wants you to believe they are going bankrupt, and will do whatever it takes to appease their customers. I am not buying it for one second. I think if the reality was that AMT was hemorrhaging money, they would've already claimed bankruptcy.

They are simply trying for a solution that let's them keep some profits, and keep you all from continuing to pursue legal action and hold them accountable for this fraud.

Better off letting the courts decide what should happen. This will likely award you all for being decepted, as well as keeping AMT from ripping off new clients in the future.

Interesting how they are offering a "hosted mining solution" for some of you, yet they claim they don't mine. I wonder how they are going to go about mining for customers then. Oh wait, I know! They've been mining all along with whatever working hardware they DO have. They just sent all the non working/miners with issues to customers.

Yes a judge can garnish wages: in pa it's 10% per creditor not to excede 25% max to comply with federal law. And that is only if what you are making doesn't put you below the poverty threshold.

Lets say Jim and Josh net 50,000 each so 100,000 x .25 is 25,000 per year / over a minimum of 1500 orders I hope everyone enjoys their $16.67 a year. So I'll be paid back for my miner in 345 years if josh, jim, and I were all so lucky to live that long. So while it's not literally dimes it's no amount of money worth having wages garnished over.  if I'm lucky and live 50 years after a judge lets wage garnishment happen I'll have recouped 833 dollars in those 50 years.

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

If they have their company set up a certain way then their assets will be shielded, if they were smart enough to go that route.

I'd have my assets in a trust that named my children as beneficiaries some long time off into the future.

[Syke]

I've got this 58 lb brick of government cheese in a box coming back to me from AMT. (actually at least you can eat Govt. cheese).  Please advise.

Brian, someone will get there and pick it up, just calm down. That's like the other side of philly, its pretty much an hour drive but we're gonna get it, its not going anywhere and we're gonna take care of it but you gotta calm down about this.

[FrictionlessCoin]

With the whole hashfast, BFL and cointerra situations and pretty much every american manufacturer dealing with various delays and shady activity, any honest and transparent action is what will set them apart. IF and this is a big IF, AMT can actually deliver on any promises they make this time, within a reasonable time-frame, that might be the one thing that sets them apart. This is not the buyers fault. We all bought into something that has not happened. We paid money for hardware that failed consistently. If we get the existing hardware we have exchanged and replaced with the allegedly better designs, is there some kind of written warranty or guarantee we can hold AMT accountable to? At this point its a safe bet that we need anything said in writing and official for us to be able to feel like this is going to work. But at the very least getting us hardware that works consistently and is tested before leaving the assembly plant.

For all these other companies the writing is on the wall. Hashfast is headed towards insolvency, cointerra might be as well. BFL is an unknown. If AMT is looking to stay in business then regain the credibility by delivering this time around with more transparency and committing and keeping to a timeline and delivering well tested hardware that hashes exactly as advertised. Yes the occasional bad board is to be expected but the quality control should be there to catch 95 percent of the bad stuff.

If AMT wants to really do right by us then the best thing is to start showing off the new board working (videos, photos) and a committed timeline. If the vendor is reliable and has a reputation of reliability that makes it even better for us as well. Since you obviously are going through them to assemble this. Hopefully this is a vendor the community is familiar with and we can start hoping for better hardware to replace the bad stuff.

The upshot is then you become the sole mining hardware company that has delivered working hardware that works as advertised (discounting the previous fiasco). There are those who dont care and woudl see you fail and consistently post as they have no vested interest. They don't care that we put money into this. Others who have another angle like a lawsuit, also stand to lose even tho they lose anyway if it goes through. In fact we all lose. But if you can get us more info and commitments you will keep this time and maybe even we hear it from the vendor you sourced to who is doing the work it might be a better assurance for us to feel we are going to get results.  

I thought Cointerra was in good shape?   Cointerra has delivered more than 5,000 miners and is selling their product for immediate delivery.

In fact, the only two vendor right now that a shipping a ton of miners is Cointerra and Bitmain.   Everyone else is either pre-order or having a ton of issues delivering.

[FrictionlessCoin]

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

Well, that is the key indeed.  If nobody has received a working 1.2TH/s miner.... then what shall we call that? 

Is there one shred of evidence of a working 1.2TH/s miner?   Can someone chime in to declare that one has been actually delivered? 

The best option for AMT is to refund all 1.2TH/s miner customers.   

[sirminesalot]

Rik: You said it's good AMT is trying to solve these problems instead of "going out of business" because if they do so "people won't receive a dime".

This is pure unfounded bullshit.

A judge can demand garnishment the wages of those responsible to get the plaintiffs paid back. They can also take control of their assets in order for these monies to be paid back.

You all have become so desperate for a solution from AMT, you are about to let them get away with not delivering on what they promised.

Believe it or not, I'm sure they will walk away with money in their pockets from this "solution" for you all. AMT wants you to believe they are going bankrupt, and will do whatever it takes to appease their customers. I am not buying it for one second. I think if the reality was that AMT was hemorrhaging money, they would've already claimed bankruptcy.

They are simply trying for a solution that let's them keep some profits, and keep you all from continuing to pursue legal action and hold them accountable for this fraud.

Better off letting the courts decide what should happen. This will likely award you all for being decepted, as well as keeping AMT from ripping off new clients in the future.

Interesting how they are offering a "hosted mining solution" for some of you, yet they claim they don't mine. I wonder how they are going to go about mining for customers then. Oh wait, I know! They've been mining all along with whatever working hardware they DO have. They just sent all the non working/miners with issues to customers.

Yes a judge can garnish wages: in pa it's 10% per creditor not to excede 25% max to comply with federal law. And that is only if what you are making doesn't put you below the poverty threshold.

Lets say Jim and Josh net 50,000 each so 100,000 x .25 is 25,000 per year / over a minimum of 1500 orders I hope everyone enjoys their $16.67 a year. So I'll be paid back for my miner in 345 years if josh, jim, and I were all so lucky to live that long. So while it's not literally dimes it's no amount of money worth having wages garnished over.  if I'm lucky and live 50 years after a judge lets wage garnishment happen I'll have recouped 833 dollars in those 50 years.

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

If they have their company set up a certain way then their assets will be shielded, if they were smart enough to go that route.

I'd have my assets in a trust that named my children as beneficiaries some long time off into the future.

Remember the backlog of research from users here, about AMT's business registration?

THEY ARENT EVEN REGISTERED AS A U.S BUSINESS! They've been using Advanced Mining Technology's name, which is an actual mining company (other business) founded in the 80's.

An LLC might of covered their ass, but there is no indication of AMT LLC. or anything to that nature. Hell, maybe someone can point me to a webpage that shows their actual registered company?

I think Joshua left himself wide open to legal repercussions.

[opieum2]

Rik: You said it's good AMT is trying to solve these problems instead of "going out of business" because if they do so "people won't receive a dime".

This is pure unfounded bullshit.

A judge can demand garnishment the wages of those responsible to get the plaintiffs paid back. They can also take control of their assets in order for these monies to be paid back.

You all have become so desperate for a solution from AMT, you are about to let them get away with not delivering on what they promised.

Believe it or not, I'm sure they will walk away with money in their pockets from this "solution" for you all. AMT wants you to believe they are going bankrupt, and will do whatever it takes to appease their customers. I am not buying it for one second. I think if the reality was that AMT was hemorrhaging money, they would've already claimed bankruptcy.

They are simply trying for a solution that let's them keep some profits, and keep you all from continuing to pursue legal action and hold them accountable for this fraud.

Better off letting the courts decide what should happen. This will likely award you all for being decepted, as well as keeping AMT from ripping off new clients in the future.

Interesting how they are offering a "hosted mining solution" for some of you, yet they claim they don't mine. I wonder how they are going to go about mining for customers then. Oh wait, I know! They've been mining all along with whatever working hardware they DO have. They just sent all the non working/miners with issues to customers.

Yes a judge can garnish wages: in pa it's 10% per creditor not to excede 25% max to comply with federal law. And that is only if what you are making doesn't put you below the poverty threshold.

Lets say Jim and Josh net 50,000 each so 100,000 x .25 is 25,000 per year / over a minimum of 1500 orders I hope everyone enjoys their $16.67 a year. So I'll be paid back for my miner in 345 years if josh, jim, and I were all so lucky to live that long. So while it's not literally dimes it's no amount of money worth having wages garnished over.  if I'm lucky and live 50 years after a judge lets wage garnishment happen I'll have recouped 833 dollars in those 50 years.

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

If they have their company set up a certain way then their assets will be shielded, if they were smart enough to go that route.

I'd have my assets in a trust that named my children as beneficiaries some long time off into the future.

Agreed, again sirminesalot strike out again. He is on here spouting more useless nonsense without even thinking about it. he is not here to help you he is here to see us all burn. If his comments were meant to help then they would be more productive. I ignored him but I see his comments through the quotes.

You nailed it on the head rik. The legal route will get us limited results. Right now our best bet IMO (which could be wrong if I am presented with better information) but the 2nd option of them sourcing the work to the "interested" 3rd party (technobit?) would be our best bet. They get business and we get working miners. I would be ok with that so long as its not a months long wait again. I get lead times, but lead times should be a couple of weeks to a month max. If they are really doing this then we want to have some clear information on it so we know what we are getting into. This situation is more convoluted than it needs to be for us. This should be a money and product not money and haggle over what we get. As it is we have had to make alot of compromises on what we got as it is which is certainly not fair to us as we paid to get something and got alot less than that. Everyone here lost money and is still losing money to this.

I would like to see AMT succeed and come out of this. But they need to up their game and that requires fulfilling the orders and getting everyone here replacement hardware who has broken hardware as well as getting the movement on fulfilling outstanding orders. It would be nice to see the new hardware working to spec.  

[FrictionlessCoin]

Rik: You said it's good AMT is trying to solve these problems instead of "going out of business" because if they do so "people won't receive a dime".

This is pure unfounded bullshit.

A judge can demand garnishment the wages of those responsible to get the plaintiffs paid back. They can also take control of their assets in order for these monies to be paid back.

You all have become so desperate for a solution from AMT, you are about to let them get away with not delivering on what they promised.

Believe it or not, I'm sure they will walk away with money in their pockets from this "solution" for you all. AMT wants you to believe they are going bankrupt, and will do whatever it takes to appease their customers. I am not buying it for one second. I think if the reality was that AMT was hemorrhaging money, they would've already claimed bankruptcy.

They are simply trying for a solution that let's them keep some profits, and keep you all from continuing to pursue legal action and hold them accountable for this fraud.

Better off letting the courts decide what should happen. This will likely award you all for being decepted, as well as keeping AMT from ripping off new clients in the future.

Interesting how they are offering a "hosted mining solution" for some of you, yet they claim they don't mine. I wonder how they are going to go about mining for customers then. Oh wait, I know! They've been mining all along with whatever working hardware they DO have. They just sent all the non working/miners with issues to customers.

Yes a judge can garnish wages: in pa it's 10% per creditor not to excede 25% max to comply with federal law. And that is only if what you are making doesn't put you below the poverty threshold.

Lets say Jim and Josh net 50,000 each so 100,000 x .25 is 25,000 per year / over a minimum of 1500 orders I hope everyone enjoys their $16.67 a year. So I'll be paid back for my miner in 345 years if josh, jim, and I were all so lucky to live that long. So while it's not literally dimes it's no amount of money worth having wages garnished over.  if I'm lucky and live 50 years after a judge lets wage garnishment happen I'll have recouped 833 dollars in those 50 years.

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

If they have their company set up a certain way then their assets will be shielded, if they were smart enough to go that route.

I'd have my assets in a trust that named my children as beneficiaries some long time off into the future.

Remember the backlog of research from users here, about AMT's business registration?

THEY ARENT EVEN REGISTERED AS A U.S BUSINESS! They've been using Advanced Mining Technology's name, which is an actual mining company (other business) founded in the 80's.

An LLC might of covered their ass, but there is no indication of AMT LLC. or anything to that nature. Hell, maybe someone can point me to a webpage that shows their actual registered company?

I think Joshua left himself wide open to legal repercussions.

Well, that would be a very bad situation if they did not register an LLC.    

[opieum2]

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

Well, that is the key indeed.  If nobody has received a working 1.2TH/s miner.... then what shall we call that? 

Is there one shred of evidence of a working 1.2TH/s miner?   Can someone chime in to declare that one has been actually delivered? 

The best option for AMT is to refund all 1.2TH/s miner customers.   

While a refund would be nice they obviously are not making it happen now. There are alot of issues with that by itself I'm not going into. You are right tho to date no one has a fully working miner that we know of. On top of this we also have to wait now for replacements and the biggest concern is returns. Considering how things are happening with returned hardware this is a situation we want some clarification on.

[FrictionlessCoin]

As for their assets that depends. Who's names are "their" assets in? If they are able to prove it's not not fraud and cause by undue damage to them by a third party that resulted in their inability to ship the miners as specified they their assets aren't going to be touched after a judgment was awarded and they wanted to declare bankruptcy.

Well, that is the key indeed.  If nobody has received a working 1.2TH/s miner.... then what shall we call that? 

Is there one shred of evidence of a working 1.2TH/s miner?   Can someone chime in to declare that one has been actually delivered? 

The best option for AMT is to refund all 1.2TH/s miner customers.   

Exactly.

For some reason they would rather offer up 5 different scenarios of payback, excluding an actual ONE TIME PAYMENT REFUND. Why is this? Seems very suspect to me.

Anyone who opts for a trickle back refund option (over the course of a year or what not) is a fool. You've essentially given an interest free loan to AMT for a year and a half.

FUCK THAT!

It is pretty clear that none of the 5 payback options compensates for the $6,000 was spent per miner.

I really am not sure how AMT can purchase a 1 THs miner for $3,000 and give it to a customer and say that the customer is made whole.

I really don't know what AMT (Josh) is even thinking here.

AMT has barely any resources to process technical questions or even returns,  how are they supposed to provide maintenance support for miners that they shipped?

Even looking forward in the future,  building mining equipment is a losing proposition unless you are the chip manufacturer.   Coincraft A1 chips started at around $90 per chip,   but now it is obvious that the price is now down to $40 per chip.  (Note: Bitmine and AMT have not changed their prices).    

[NaranKPatel]

I'd like option 1, with power supplies. Please confirm.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I would be happy if AMT buys a 1.6 TH/s cointerra and ships it to us.

Right now a TerraMiner IV 1.6 TH/s Bitcoin Miner cost $3,499 and is IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE.

Yeah, it is like a $2,500 loss but its better than nothing!

Man,  even those KNC folks are screwed.  They paid $12,000 for a 3TH/s system.   Two Cointerra systems would cost only $7,000 and you'll have 3.2 TH/s of hashing!