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Author Topic: [ANN] IPO of MaidSafe:  Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet  (Read 548722 times)
Jocuserious
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April 27, 2014, 12:48:43 AM
 #621

Just wanted to say major props to the Maidsafe team.  I especially appreciate the mind toward community and am looking forward to seeing what you guys can do. 
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April 27, 2014, 12:53:44 AM
 #622

Why was Maidsafe offered at a 50% discount when priced in Mastercoin compared to Bitcoin? Before the announcement, Mastercoin was just below 0.1 BTC. Surely it is not hard to see that once the IPO pricing for Safecoin was announced, Mastercoin will jump up to 0.2. Was this an attempt by the MC ppl to pump up the price/value of Mastercoin? It just does not make sense. Let's see If Maidsafe or Mastercoin foundation can give a clear & honest answer to this question.

It was thought by us all that as people seen MSC actually being used for the first time as the utility it was designed for that the price would climb quickly. So we thought it may be a bargain initially (if at all) and very quickly not be. So a balance early in sale, I told everyone when asked this was a BTC sale really, it needed MSC to run as that is how the protocol works. For a BTC sale we did have to set prices or have a dutch auction, then we wondered how to set prices each tx as there may be wild fluctuations and people thought it better to know exactly how  much msafe they ere buying for their purchase.

I never realised the speculative nature of purchasers would be so damaging or would even work. I honestly believed that people would see MP as increasing it's value as it proved itself. In the short time the sale ran it never had that chance. People were using it primarily as a route to cheaper msafe. I cannot blame them for that, but we thought only a few tx and the price would be probably past 0.2 quickly.

It seems many used MSC as a mechanism to purchase cheaply and the liquidity of it was less than we thought. David Johnston of BitAngels and JR Willets posted comment as well. You can get soem info  http://www.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/23o60n/maidsafe_has_pulled_the_msc_payment_address/cgz6ag2 with links to David Johnstone who helped those MSC holders who felt left out. This all sounds bad for MSC holders and no way do I want that to be the case. I think MSC has a long way to go as many other projects have. I was very impressed by the MSC devs and team, very decent people, it's a shame to see some of the allegations they had to face. I hope it does increase in value as the MaidSafe foundation is holding a lot of it now.

We are having a public discussion to see what can be learned, obviously algorithms need to improve, guessing currency rates has to be better (can you ever get that right) and much more. It should be a great meeting for the projects that follow us.

I don't know how clear this is but it is honest for sure. tl;dr we got sidelined by a massive influx of support and had not set up for that speed of incoming MSC. The price was probably wrong, but hindsight exaggerates that for sure.    

[edit some typos and bad grammar as usual, clarified MaidSafe foundation]
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April 27, 2014, 12:56:47 AM
 #623

Just wanted to say major props to the Maidsafe team.  I especially appreciate the mind toward community and am looking forward to seeing what you guys can do. 

Thanks for that. The folks in the office will appreciate that. Many worked all nighters several days in a row to get this done. We are all still in shock I think. The community spirit is amazing though, its looking very much a project with a ton of support and backing. Lot of hard work and not over yet. Thanks again though, we will try and live up to your expectations for sure.
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April 27, 2014, 01:55:47 AM
 #624

No worries and I mean it wholeheartedly.  I think a lot of the dialogue and criticism (which is putting it mildly in some cases) in this thread is overlapped by the very many people who are here for speculative means only and have not afforded themselves the luxury of familiarizing themselves with the available information on the people, intentions and product of Maidsafe.

So yeah...go kick ass and take names (not literally of course).  Decentralized internet sounds pretty useful...Wink
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April 27, 2014, 03:15:14 AM
 #625

Thanks for the message dirvine. I know it's a message to the wider community and not just a response to me. I need to do some calculations before I comment further.

Not sure what you mean by "fair".  I'm pretty sure you weren't forced by the government or anyone else to engage in a safecoin purchase.

Your decision to buy shouldn't depend on what other people are getting in at.  It should depend on whether or not this is a sensible financial transaction for you.

Just because some people got into bitcoin at 5 cents is it somehow unfair (or a poor investment) to buy now at $450?

If people are buying bitcoin at 5 cents right now whilst others are buying them $450, then obviously that is a problem. Well, I say obviously...

And according to you, something can only be unfair if it involves coercion?  Cheesy I'm not even replying to that.
Often when people use the word "unfair" on this forum they carry with it some sense of entitlement and having been 'wronged', which is a completely bogus attitude.  If you were merely stating that different people were treated differently, then I apologize.  Of course they were.  In a truly free market this will happen all the time. 
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April 27, 2014, 05:46:06 AM
 #626

Maidsafe  有分红吗?如果没有,为什么没有呢? Huh
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April 27, 2014, 06:01:40 AM
 #627

Why there is only one exchange?

BTC:14NxNcYM5WFG7N9NmcQioT5JxZjh5dbTET
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April 27, 2014, 06:04:24 AM
 #628

Why there is only one exchange?
因为连msc都仅仅是这一个。你是西安的? Grin
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April 27, 2014, 06:18:35 AM
 #629


Do not worry we gave everyone the 40% discount. This was the step we had to take, to be fair. I figured that BTC holders were running the risk of being pushed out, also they ran the risk of all the bonus going to MSC holders. It was something we should have catered for better and a mistake in hindsight. We know now the Maser protocol rules way more than we did 2 weeks ago. It is a great system and we pushed it to the limits, those developers are amazing, but we slaughtered them with the speed of this.  

So we ended up with a super fast sale where the project got way too many MSC. We figured we may get 25% or so MSC and that was great as they had provided this system for us to be able to do the crowd sale and the devs there worked like mad to do it. As MSC is not as liquid as BTC we did want only a small amount, but this was us supporting the Mastercoin project as they supported us. I believe supporting each other is good. The 25% figure was something we could hope to see build value and liquidity over time, so great.

What happened shocked everyone, we had to act fast. So we purchased all msafe for BTC backers up front rather than manually converting on each purchase. This allowed everyone the same deal, even though our 0.2 figure for MSC was also clearly wrong in hindsight. This is a brand new space, there will be more mistakes by other projects, we need to support and help as well as critique when necessary. We learn by understanding our own mistakes and we progress by helping others.

I think it's amazing we were seen as some kind of pump and dump (not by you). We ended up with less liquidity when we need it to get the community developer teams up and running. The Master Protocol guys certainly did not want us to end up with a huge portion of MSC either as that is not great for them. So we made a mistake we never seen the rush come, but we paid for it by sacrificing approx $2-3.5 million in liquidity, but it was a stance we felt was fair on the community, our own concerns were secondary at that time. This does not count the fact the whole thing went for the 40% bonus rate, we (when I say we I mean the community not MaidSafe, it's the community that gets most of the funds we raised if we get it right) paid the price for our mistake in that way for sure. We can partially repay the wider community and we will by holding a meeting with all parties on Monday evening to figure out the mistakes, the good parts and how others can benefit, this will all be made public and hide nothing (as usual).

Why would we want loads of MSC and less BTC, people need to ask themselves this question, all our staff went full in BTC so it would make no sense at all.

The sale was amazing, we have several thousand buyers who are now part of making this all happen and now we have to work very hard to make sure they are all rewarded with a new Internet and an incredible currency. It's a humbling thing to see that level of support for a project, as a community we need to be very honest critical and brave. The huge majority are of the same opinion and that's amazing. We do need to clear up the messaging and everyone is very welcome to watch our meetings, read our emails (they are public at the dev list) and hopefully meet us at a show soon. Nothing like a meeting in person I think.

so thanks for your support and we will not let you down.


I think this is an important point. In cases like these, it makes sense to give the developers the benefit of doubt. It's unlikely their intention was to screw people with BTC donations. Mistakes were made that need to be forgiven and we need to learn from them and move on.

Kudos to the MaidSafe team and look forward to some amazing innovation!


     
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liondani
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April 27, 2014, 07:31:47 AM
 #630

How many SafeCoins were bought with MSC? Not much right? The sellers don't have exactly the biggest stash...?

I am not aware of the exact figure...  but somehow I am convinced that the majority of those selling these past couple of days are within that group...  maybe this below might help you come up with an exact figure...    Undecided


This is what we have done, it reduces the back office steps, ensures BTC backers are looked after and not squeezed out. MSC backers got in at almost equal footing as BTC (almost 50% / 50%) and we all win. The BTC goes ahead and the MSC people got in fast and made their purchase.

In my opinion they should award extra safecoin to the Bitcoin backers to compensate. I honestly wouldn't have bought the safecoins if I knew a huge chunk of people were buying them for cheaper, due to the scenario that is playing out now.

I'm not worried long term as I believe strongly the price will go up a lot. But still, doesn't seem fair to me.

Do not worry we gave everyone the 40% discount. This was the step we had to take, to be fair. I figured that BTC holders were running the risk of being pushed out, also they ran the risk of all the bonus going to MSC holders. It was something we should have catered for better and a mistake in hindsight. We know now the Maser protocol rules way more than we did 2 weeks ago. It is a great system and we pushed it to the limits, those developers are amazing, but we slaughtered them with the speed of this.  

So we ended up with a super fast sale where the project got way too many MSC. We figured we may get 25% or so MSC and that was great as they had provided this system for us to be able to do the crowd sale and the devs there worked like mad to do it. As MSC is not as liquid as BTC we did want only a small amount, but this was us supporting the Mastercoin project as they supported us. I believe supporting each other is good. The 25% figure was something we could hope to see build value and liquidity over time, so great.

What happened shocked everyone, we had to act fast. So we purchased all msafe for BTC backers up front rather than manually converting on each purchase. This allowed everyone the same deal, even though our 0.2 figure for MSC was also clearly wrong in hindsight. This is a brand new space, there will be more mistakes by other projects, we need to support and help as well as critique when necessary. We learn by understanding our own mistakes and we progress by helping others.

I think it's amazing we were seen as some kind of pump and dump (not by you). We ended up with less liquidity when we need it to get the community developer teams up and running. The Master Protocol guys certainly did not want us to end up with a huge portion of MSC either as that is not great for them. So we made a mistake we never seen the rush come, but we paid for it by sacrificing approx $2-3.5 million in liquidity, but it was a stance we felt was fair on the community, our own concerns were secondary at that time. This does not count the fact the whole thing went for the 40% bonus rate, we (when I say we I mean the community not MaidSafe, it's the community that gets most of the funds we raised if we get it right) paid the price for our mistake in that way for sure. We can partially repay the wider community and we will by holding a meeting with all parties on Monday evening to figure out the mistakes, the good parts and how others can benefit, this will all be made public and hide nothing (as usual).

Why would we want loads of MSC and less BTC, people need to ask themselves this question, all our staff went full in BTC so it would make no sense at all.

The sale was amazing, we have several thousand buyers who are now part of making this all happen and now we have to work very hard to make sure they are all rewarded with a new Internet and an incredible currency. It's a humbling thing to see that level of support for a project, as a community we need to be very honest critical and brave. The huge majority are of the same opinion and that's amazing. We do need to clear up the messaging and everyone is very welcome to watch our meetings, read our emails (they are public at the dev list) and hopefully meet us at a show soon. Nothing like a meeting in person I think.

so thanks for your support and we will not let you down.


After giving this advantages to MSC holders you was schocked ? !!!  I would have the same feelings if I had see the oposite !
It was the worst decision ever made... Lots of potential investors loosed about 50% of their value. Fair or not that was the rules. In my opinion it was fair! Even BTC holders could prepared and buy MSCs for that reason to invest on your project... AND THAT ACTUAL HAPENNED!!! BTC holders buyed MSCs and the next Days they could not buy !!! So don't pretend you wanted to protect BTC holders you did exactly the oposite !!! BTC holders had buyed the MSCs only to donate to the IPO and they loosed ....everybody else they had allready MSCs  sold at 0.17 BTC... Don't say again you protected the BTC investors, maybe you wanted to protect them ok (I can believe that) BUT your action's did the OPOSITE admit it or NOT, thats the facts!

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April 27, 2014, 08:07:44 AM
 #631


After giving this advantages to MSC holders you was schocked ? !!!  I would have the same feelings if I had see the oposite !
It was the worst decision ever made... Lots of potential investors loosed about 50% of their value. Fair or not that was the rules. In my opinion it was fair! Even BTC holders could prepared and buy MSCs for that reason to invest on your project... AND THAT ACTUAL HAPENNED!!! BTC holders buyed MSCs and the next Days they could not buy !!! So don't pretend you wanted to protect BTC holders you did exactly the oposite !!! BTC holders had buyed the MSCs only to donate to the IPO and they loosed ....everybody else they had allready MSCs  sold at 0.17 BTC... Don't say again you protected the BTC investors, maybe you wanted to protect them ok (I can believe that) BUT your action's did the OPOSITE admit it or NOT, thats the facts!

+10

Agree completely! I'm also one of the losers that bought MSC with BTC and left outside the closed doors of MSC IPO with Half of my BTC burned out!

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April 27, 2014, 09:35:36 AM
 #632

dirvine, will your team be now building code everyday, and will this code be open on github or closed until launch?

I have noticed most of the core files on your repo [github] have not been updated in months.
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April 27, 2014, 09:39:45 AM
 #633

even though our 0.2 figure for MSC was also clearly wrong in hindsight.

how could you not see this up front, the market rate was open.


Quote
this is a brand new space, there will be more mistakes by other projects, we need to support and help as well as critique when necessary. We learn by understanding our own mistakes and we progress by helping others.

Arbitrage is not a brand new *space*. It has been going on for 1000's of years. You clearly set up an arbitrage system.

Quote
I think it's amazing we were seen as some kind of pump and dump (not by you). We ended up with less liquidity when we need it to get the community developer teams up and running. The Master Protocol guys certainly did not want us to end up with a huge portion of MSC either as that is not great for them. So we made a mistake we never seen the rush come, but we paid for it by sacrificing approx $2-3.5 million in liquidity, but it was a stance we felt was fair on the community, our own concerns were secondary at that time. This does not count the fact the whole thing went for the 40% bonus rate, we (when I say we I mean the community not MaidSafe, it's the community that gets most of the funds we raised if we get it right) paid the price for our mistake in that way for sure. We can partially repay the wider community and we will by holding a meeting with all parties on Monday evening to figure out the mistakes, the good parts and how others can benefit, this will all be made public and hide nothing (as usual).

Why would we want loads of MSC and less BTC, people need to ask themselves this question, all our staff went full in BTC so it would make no sense at all.


It makes sense from one angle. Cui bono?

Those with large amounts of MSC and no liquidity to dump, exit into MS, or use MS as a proxy back to BTC.
I expect some one with a large amount of MSC has some sort of arrangement with MS or has some type of interest.

Quote
The sale was amazing, we have several thousand buyers who are now part of making this all happen and now we have to work very hard to make sure they are all rewarded with a new Internet and an incredible currency. It's a humbling thing to see that level of support for a project, as a community we need to be very honest critical and brave. The huge majority are of the same opinion and that's amazing. We do need to clear up the messaging and everyone is very welcome to watch our meetings, read our emails (they are public at the dev list) and hopefully meet us at a show soon. Nothing like a meeting in person I think.

so thanks for your support and we will not let you down.

Amazing in *many* respects. Given the time involved this could not have been possibly missed or *buy* accident.

I would like to see some hard maths to show the BTC holders ended up with the equivalent market rate as MSC holders. That is the only optimal solution open to MS and that door is fast closing. The 40% more goes some way, but how far?

No numerical example of why 40% is correct. This should be relatively simple to do. Take the MSC rate pre 0.2 or whatever it ramped up to and use that.

I am not saying the coin/concept is a scam. The idea is good inmho. However the circumstances make it look like someone worked really hard to take the oxygen out of the room.

I also note the poster adjacent to this was just deleted. Yes it was a bit harsh. It is dangerous to censor though in such circumstances

my error self deleted

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April 27, 2014, 09:50:18 AM
 #634

I also note the poster adjacent to this was just deleted. Yes it was a bit harsh. It is dangerous to censor though in such circumstances

This isn't a moderated topic, how can censorship be happening here?
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April 27, 2014, 09:58:04 AM
 #635

I also note the poster adjacent to this was just deleted. Yes it was a bit harsh. It is dangerous to censor though in such circumstances

This isn't a moderated topic, how can censorship be happening here?
I think that just demonstrates how much 'conspiracy' is brought on to these boards, too many times.

@jubalix. It was my post, and i deleted it because i noticed afterwards i had posted the same link as drawingthesun previously.

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April 27, 2014, 10:08:24 AM
 #636

I also note the poster adjacent to this was just deleted. Yes it was a bit harsh. It is dangerous to censor though in such circumstances

This isn't a moderated topic, how can censorship be happening here?
I think that just demonstrates how much 'conspiracy' is brought on to these boards, too many times.

@jubalix. It was my post, and i deleted it because i noticed afterwards i had posted the same link as drawingthesun previously.



I also deleted a post because it was a bit too harsh @jubalix good to hear people like you speaking up and knowing the worlds not gone totally mad!
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April 27, 2014, 10:09:47 AM
 #637

When this coin was launched and where can i buy some please ?

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April 27, 2014, 10:11:35 AM
 #638

I won't easily believe these again.

eXo:Powerful coin, developer is concerned about the community.   Hold it, because there are a lot of people want it.
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April 27, 2014, 10:15:49 AM
 #639

When this coin was launched and where can i buy some please ?



Last week.

https://masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=msc
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April 27, 2014, 10:28:58 AM
 #640

Is this coin a scam?

ShareCoin: SQqQXF1nAPfhWTPXDdK7adaJ6q1FgewTDN
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