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Author Topic: [ANN] IPO of MaidSafe:  Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet  (Read 529641 times)
iCEBREAKER
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March 14, 2016, 04:26:14 AM
 #1541

when the Safe network goes live and you'll need to convert your Maidsafe coin to Safecoin

That 'exchage-the-one-thing-for-some-other-presently-vaporous-thing' thing didn't exactly work out well for Nautilus.

Why will Maid work where NAUT (miserably) failed?

safecoins are kind of not really a coin. they are a unit of storage space on the network.. so by purchasing safecoins, ur purchasing storage space. as u upload to the network safecoins would be deducted from your balance based on how much storage you use. at least this is what i understand it to be.

You are a Hero member, yet still must post a disclaimer explaining nobody really knows WTF Maid is.

The New Internet®?  A mirage?  A chimera?  No wonder the pumpers get so defensive when you try to pin down specifics.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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iCEBREAKER
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March 14, 2016, 04:33:05 AM
 #1542

when the Safe network goes live and you'll need to convert your Maidsafe coin to Safecoin

That 'exchage-the-one-thing-for-some-other-presently-vaporous-thing' thing didn't exactly work out well for Nautilus.

Why will Maid work where NAUT (miserably) failed?

It's a method of distribution, POW has failed for more coins than it has succeeded for

POS has failed for more coins than it has succeeded for .

IPO and ICO have failed more than succeeded

A method of distribution can be good for some projects and bad for other projects depending on what that project is, what it does and how it does it, do you honestly not understand this or are you intentionally being stupid?

Och, aren't we a wee bit touchy this evening?   Cheesy

Other than generic platitudes about POW/POS, do you know any specific reason why Maid's 'exchage-real-BTC-now-for-some-presently-vaporous-thing-later' scheme will be any less of a failure than NAUT's similar attempt?


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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jibble
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March 14, 2016, 05:38:19 AM
 #1543

when the Safe network goes live and you'll need to convert your Maidsafe coin to Safecoin

That 'exchage-the-one-thing-for-some-other-presently-vaporous-thing' thing didn't exactly work out well for Nautilus.

Why will Maid work where NAUT (miserably) failed?

It's a method of distribution, POW has failed for more coins than it has succeeded for

POS has failed for more coins than it has succeeded for .

IPO and ICO have failed more than succeeded

A method of distribution can be good for some projects and bad for other projects depending on what that project is, what it does and how it does it, do you honestly not understand this or are you intentionally being stupid?

Och, aren't we a wee bit touchy this evening?   Cheesy

Other than generic platitudes about POW/POS, do you know any specific reason why Maid's 'exchage-real-BTC-now-for-some-presently-vaporous-thing-later' scheme will be any less of a failure than NAUT's similar attempt?

You have been able to test the software for well over a year building your own instances

You can read the github of over 70,000 lines of code , rewritten from over 600,000 lines of a different computer language.

You can right now this second download and test it out for yourself with all the other people who are doing so. upload files and create apps on the network

Please learn the definition of "vaporous"

Other than generic platitudes? you have taken 1 completely banal fact about a coin (distribution of a token to later be exchanged when the network is fully functional) then leaped to some random conclusion. "this coin's Dev said bacon, the only ever time i have seen a dev say bacon, it was a failed project which failed for 20 different reasons, not one of them related to saying bacon, how will this coin succeed after the dev said bacon?"

What would you like to know that you couldn't take 5 minutes out of your day to find out yourself?

It is blockchainless , so truly anonymous . Only identifying data on a coin is last previous owner and the current one , once you trade it, which would take under a half a second and be near instantaneous , the data now has you as the previous owner and the new owner as current and that's all they will have. Just like actual cold hard cash, you know who you give it to has it and you had it before, but you wont know who he gives it to , or who you got it from.

It doesn't suffer from blockchain bloat

It is effectively turning hard drive space into a commodity/asset that can be traded globally .

Network is DOS proof, it effectively speeds up the network, more people who are accessing a file the faster it can be accessed, more people using a website the faster it downloads, so a DOS attack that costs money for the attacker will just be improving the service for everyone else.

Totally self encrypted network for your files and for your viewing pleasure , not even your ISP knows what you are looking at

It is an incentivized, decentralized internet that rewards content creators ,security and resource providers.




Any of this information can be easily found if one was to take a look for themselves at the maidsafe forum , all the code can be verified and you can literally get onto the network this second, while also being able to build your own network by folking the code and seeing it all in action working on your own built instances.

Anyone who was to be genuinely curious could of asked a whole range of questions regarding what answers they so sought out, but no you asked "i saw another coin fail that tried to do a similar distribution plan to this one, and even thou they have completely 100% verifiable code, and an actual means of testing and seeing the actual software in action, i still cannot think of anything else other than that 1 pointless fact that has no connection to the success or failure of the coin, why will this project not fail even thou everything about it except 1 thing is different?" which you could literally answer yourself if you did even the tinniest amount of your own research.

With that conclusion , it is either you are trolling , being intentionally stupid and lazy or are just stupid and lazy, Going from your legendary forum status i would of assumed it was intentionally stupid rather than actual stupid . Not touchy , I saw a stupid comment and asked if that person was being intentionally stupid, in a matter of fact way. But we are dealing with someone who fails at understanding definitions so a classic deflection was to be expected as a reply and a false emotional context placed on my post was to be expected.
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March 14, 2016, 10:10:29 AM
 #1544



You are a Hero member, yet still must post a disclaimer explaining nobody really knows WTF Maid is.

The New Internet®?  A mirage?  A chimera?  No wonder the pumpers get so defensive when you try to pin down specifics.

This is what I wrote a few pages back about what it is:

It's a P2P-internet where all data is "chunked" and encrypted and everybody stores pieces. All connections between users are encrypted as well so there's a lot of security. You can store data just like on Dropbox but you can also store websites and register a domain like zeeman.safenet which everybody can request using their browser. The network it based on Ants where all Ants have their own role without central organisation. Still though, they help each other out and work together to make sure everybody get's their data.

On BitTorrent you always hope that someone is providing a file as a seeder, on Safenet you'll always have at least 4 seeders (more likely 6) for each MB. And the seeders have an incentive to keep their connection open to make Safecoin. So download an episode of Breaking Bad from years ago and for every GB you'll have about 6000 seeders. The link with Freenet is logical but not right IMO. On Freenet you hope (just like BitTorrent) that there are seeders. In the case of Freenet you hope someone requested a file before you did in the last few weeks and that it's in cache somewhere. If it's not in cache it will be gone. On Safenet once uploaded, a file will be there forever if the uploader didn't took it off. It will be there for years. And again, for every 100MB. you'll see about 600 seeders that have the chunks available. And instead of BitTorrent where you need to provide upload to get downloads, these seeders (Farmers) are paid for by the network.  

And about Safecoin, they use ring signatures if you like. Remember, to your close nodes in XOR your just an address. And as one of the users from that 32 nodes group you can't do a thing. You'll always ask for them to do it. So they GET your chunks for you and pass them to you. They decide if you can upload (PUT) a chunk to the network or not. And they sign everything you do. Without about 80% of the group signing a request you can't do anything on the network. And you can't pick your own group or address. It's like a virtual IP-Address that's given to you by a group of nodes.

So Safecoin is cryptocoin that doesn't use a blockchain. You can buy storage on the network with it or use it just as all the other coins to exchange value with people.
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March 14, 2016, 12:33:51 PM
 #1545

when the Safe network goes live and you'll need to convert your Maidsafe coin to Safecoin

That 'exchage-the-one-thing-for-some-other-presently-vaporous-thing' thing didn't exactly work out well for Nautilus.

Why will Maid work where NAUT (miserably) failed?

safecoins are kind of not really a coin. they are a unit of storage space on the network.. so by purchasing safecoins, ur purchasing storage space. as u upload to the network safecoins would be deducted from your balance based on how much storage you use. at least this is what i understand it to be.

You are a Hero member, yet still must post a disclaimer explaining nobody really knows WTF Maid is.

The New Internet®?  A mirage?  A chimera?  No wonder the pumpers get so defensive when you try to pin down specifics.

umm i didnt say that. bottom line is the reason why this will work is because the maid coins are tied to the safe network. u cant get into the safe network without owning maidcoins, you cant upload to it's cloud storage network without using maidcoins to buy safecoins. i explained it in layman's terms is all. finally, when you purchase safecoins, the maidcoins used for the purchase will be burned. reducing the supply of available maid left on the market for btc trade. i hope that basic math can take over from this point for you.
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March 14, 2016, 06:44:44 PM
 #1546

the reason why this will work is because the maid coins are tied to the safe network. u cant get into the safe network without owning maidcoins, you cant upload to it's cloud storage network without using maidcoins to buy safecoins. i explained it in layman's terms is all. finally, when you purchase safecoins, the maidcoins used for the purchase will be burned. reducing the supply of available maid left on the market for btc trade. i hope that basic math can take over from this point for you.

What a kludgy, convoluted mess.

Not only does it resemble the NAUT swap fiasco, the "burned" supply goofiness smells like the Counterpary and VIA failures.  These Rube Goldberg ICO and shell game IPO schemes never turn out well for anyone except the guy that took everyone else's Bitcoins.

As for "basic math," I'd love to have some explanation of the cryptography behind Safecoin's alleged private/untraceable/unlinkable properties.

But every time I ask, I get a different answer.  I'm not seeing an advantage over SIA or Storj here, to put it nicely in an understatement.

Currently the Maidsafecoin is held on the Bitcoin blockchain

Omni blockchain ready to be used , the whole 70 GB :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1101724.msg14006462#msg14006462

It is blockchainless , so truly anonymous .


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
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March 14, 2016, 07:07:00 PM
 #1547

And about Safecoin, they use ring signatures if you like.

Safecoin is cryptocoin that doesn't use a blockchain.

Ummmmmmm, how does Safecoin use ring signatures if it doesn't have a blockchain?

From where do the required "random transaction outputs on the blockchain" originate?


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
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jibble
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March 14, 2016, 07:32:12 PM
 #1548



What a kludgy, convoluted mess.

Not only does it resemble the NAUT swap fiasco, the "burned" supply goofiness smells like the Counterpary and VIA failures.  These Rube Goldberg ICO and shell game IPO schemes never turn out well for anyone except the guy that took everyone else's Bitcoins.

As for "basic math," I'd love to have some explanation of the cryptography behind Safecoin's alleged private/untraceable/unlinkable properties.

But every time I ask, I get a different answer.  I'm not seeing an advantage over SIA or Storj here, to put it nicely in an understatement.



You will get different answers from different people over here on bitcointalk, where non of the dev's hang out, only people who have an interest in it, It is it hella complex in how everything comes together so that adds to the difference in understanding people have of the technology and their own explainations

SIA and Storj are blockchain based storage , they are great examples of blockchain based decentralized storage solutions .

there are plenty of sources of information straight from the horses mouth as it were on the forum and on the blog :

http://blog.maidsafe.net/

https://forum.safenetwork.io/

these are the places you will get the most accurate information, if you cannot find anything specific to your question you can create a post, most likely someone will either link you to the topic that has already been created or even david himself regularly replies and helps explain things for the most accurate details regarding it.


Safecoins exist on the network, the only data fields they have are previous and current owner, This is also why transactions are near instant an can handle many thousands a second very easily , because it is literally filing in the hash for the new owner and thats it.

a similar cryptography to a bitcoins wallet address is how the hash for the ownership of the coin is secured.

Now you would ask , well couldn't a node just fake a hash and change ownership of the coin?

this would require consensus of almost all the nodes in a group, 32 nodes per "group" 28 out of 32 need to agree on a specific decision and confirm it.

the next question would be, what if i controlled 28 nodes in a single group? could i then forces decisions on the network?

Firstly it would be incredibly hard to do, No one knows or can choose where and which group they will be placed in, It is all decided randomly in XOR space . The only way really to be able to control 28 nodes out of a single group would be the attack the network buy creating thousands of new vaults, you would need to be creating 7/8ths of the new vaults being created, requiring a 87.5% attack instead of a 51% on a blockchain

Even if you successfully manage to do a successful 87.5% attack and manage to get control of a single node group or 28 of the 32 nodes in a group, no single node group decides on the decisions of changing a coins ownership, it would be decided by either 2 or 3 groups i think(maybe more(, so the 87.5% attack would have to be sustained for even longer costing huge amounts of money as you try to create many thousands of vaults. I don't know the mathematically numbers off by heart but they are written down and have been regularly talked about on the forum in several different threads

Just like blockchain consensus you cannot make it mathematically 100% secure but you can make it mathematically unfeasible to attack the network successfully or statistically improbable .

This doesn't even begin to get into the reputation system that each individual node has and the time that you must have the node running to be trusted more and more as time goes and you function correctly as a node delivering chunks of data
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March 14, 2016, 09:08:24 PM
 #1549

the reason why this will work is because the maid coins are tied to the safe network. u cant get into the safe network without owning maidcoins, you cant upload to it's cloud storage network without using maidcoins to buy safecoins. i explained it in layman's terms is all. finally, when you purchase safecoins, the maidcoins used for the purchase will be burned. reducing the supply of available maid left on the market for btc trade. i hope that basic math can take over from this point for you.

What a kludgy, convoluted mess.

Not only does it resemble the NAUT swap fiasco, the "burned" supply goofiness smells like the Counterpary and VIA failures.  These Rube Goldberg ICO and shell game IPO schemes never turn out well for anyone except the guy that took everyone else's Bitcoins.

As for "basic math," I'd love to have some explanation of the cryptography behind Safecoin's alleged private/untraceable/unlinkable properties.

But every time I ask, I get a different answer.  I'm not seeing an advantage over SIA or Storj here, to put it nicely in an understatement.

Currently the Maidsafecoin is held on the Bitcoin blockchain

Omni blockchain ready to be used , the whole 70 GB :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1101724.msg14006462#msg14006462

It is blockchainless , so truly anonymous .

well maybe maid isnt for you and one of storj or something is better. but based on what ive read and demo'd on maid its the solution that i prefer. maybe later on when you develop a need for maid's services it may seem more appealing.
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March 14, 2016, 10:45:42 PM
 #1550

Looks like I bought at the top 0.00027500 a week ago.
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March 14, 2016, 10:51:25 PM
 #1551

Looks like I bought at the top 0.00027500 a week ago.

Top was higher than that. Besides, MVP hasn't been released yet ... I wouldn't worry. Just let whales play their games.

(assumption anyway, who knows what whales really plan to do).

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March 15, 2016, 12:44:37 AM
 #1552

As for "basic math," I'd love to have some explanation of the cryptography behind Safecoin's alleged private/untraceable/unlinkable properties.

But every time I ask, I get a different answer.  I'm not seeing an advantage over SIA or Storj here, to put it nicely in an understatement.

Then go ask David Irvine (the main dev) on https://forum.safenetwork.io/

You're constant obtuse comparisons with other coins probably isn't going to get you very far in this thread (because Safe Devs don't read it).
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March 15, 2016, 07:38:17 AM
 #1553

the whale shouldn't make it so obvious that he is controlling the market and the price  Cheesy



This is a 50/50 gamble now if you are not on the inside. Take care!

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March 15, 2016, 08:40:16 AM
 #1554

the whale shouldn't make it so obvious that he is controlling the market and the price  Cheesy



This is a 50/50 gamble now if you are not on the inside. Take care!

Where there is crypto to be traded there are gonna be whales. No coin excepted  Cool
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March 15, 2016, 09:43:46 AM
 #1555

And about Safecoin, they use ring signatures if you like.

Safecoin is cryptocoin that doesn't use a blockchain.

Ummmmmmm, how does Safecoin use ring signatures if it doesn't have a blockchain?

From where do the required "random transaction outputs on the blockchain" originate?

Go to their forum will ya. And dive into the tech if you wanna know more. Ring signatures IMO mean several people (groups on SAFE) sign the transaction before a coin goes from person A top person B. SAFE uses a whole different approach than other crypto's. You'll see coins go from person A to person B when a couple of close groups sign the transaction. This means transactions under a second and because only 100 nodes a needed for 1 transaction the network can scale to thousands and thousand of transactions per second overall on the network. Hard to believe probably, but that's the way it's made.    
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March 15, 2016, 04:33:22 PM
 #1556

the whale shouldn't make it so obvious that he is controlling the market and the price  Cheesy


This is a 50/50 gamble now if you are not on the inside. Take care!

Happens with all coins. If anyone believes in 'natural growth', they are fooling themselves. I do agree however that the maid whale (or whales) has been extremely obvious in their manipulations... from insane buy walls to shakeouts. Figuring out their whale patterns is the problem, however.

One would logically think after this shakeout, there would be another rise (w/ MVP release), then fallback again. But things don't always play out logically, so who knows.

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March 15, 2016, 04:59:40 PM
 #1557

I Think the wales are keeping the price of this coin down, when Maidsafe will be implemented in banks and Ethereum, the price will go wild!
Soon Is my birthday and I am going to invest my birthday money in a few coins And this will be one of them, I just hope the price hasnt skyrocketed by then 17 march, what do you think guys?
 
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March 15, 2016, 05:15:54 PM
 #1558

I Think the wales are keeping the price of this coin down, when Maidsafe will be implemented in banks and Ethereum, the price will go wild!
Soon Is my birthday and I am going to invest my birthday money in a few coins And this will be one of them, I just hope the price hasnt skyrocketed by then 17 march, what do you think guys?
 

I wouldn't worry about banks/eth (that is hype talk). I think it simply comes down to when they announce MVP and IF the whales use that to pump up the price. Dev update should be today, so we'll know soon enough if it's this week or not.

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March 15, 2016, 05:24:24 PM
 #1559

I Think the wales are keeping the price of this coin down, when Maidsafe will be implemented in banks and Ethereum, the price will go wild!
Soon Is my birthday and I am going to invest my birthday money in a few coins And this will be one of them, I just hope the price hasnt skyrocketed by then 17 march, what do you think guys?
 

at this stage i think we're good for anything under 30k considered cheap. yes the live release will be wild. i dont see any reason why almost every website on the internet wont want to transfer to maidsafe network. its so simple and userfriendly to operate and you get soooo much security. so yes i have no doubt.. live will be another story. some people think this is speculation price, but i think its actual early bird demand. speculation might take maid over .008btc a share. and yes i honestly think that is realistic. considering demand will not use their coins for trade but to buy storage on the network.
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March 15, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
 #1560

I Think the wales are keeping the price of this coin down, when Maidsafe will be implemented in banks and Ethereum, the price will go wild!
Soon Is my birthday and I am going to invest my birthday money in a few coins And this will be one of them, I just hope the price hasnt skyrocketed by then 17 march, what do you think guys?
 

at this stage i think we're good for anything under 30k considered cheap. yes the live release will be wild. i dont see any reason why almost every website on the internet wont want to transfer to maidsafe network. its so simple and userfriendly to operate and you get soooo much security. so yes i have no doubt.. live will be another story. some people think this is speculation price, but i think its actual early bird demand. speculation might take maid over .008btc a share. and yes i honestly think that is realistic. considering demand will not use their coins for trade but to buy storage on the network.

Yeah, you are a tad more optimistic than I am. What I see is a coin that went from 3500 up to 30K... currently waiting for MVP, so at least 1-2 more chances to pump higher.

After release, who knows. One would think it'd fallback, but it depends on if whales want to keep pumping after MVP to a certain point. It will fall back at a certain point, happens with all coins... question is where it ends up, and when whales decide to withdraw.  

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