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Author Topic: [ANN] IPO of MaidSafe:  Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet  (Read 533048 times)
Jocuserious
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May 02, 2014, 04:27:38 PM
 #761

Wow ladies hand bags at dawn!

The IPO clearly wasn't run correctly, we all know this. I personally believe that the Maidsafe team knew there were risks involved with their IPO strategy but overlooked them as small risks to what the benefits raised through the Mastercoin/Maid partnership.  These risks clearly came to fruition having a much larger impact then they first thought.  We have to remember the maidsafe team have also taken a big loss here.

Now being a BTC investor tbh I knew the risks to start with, Maidsafe were very open about the Mastercoin strategy before the safe but I did not worry myself with the complications of earning a few extra maidsafe coins.  At the end of the day, like most investors I could probably imagine we're in this for the long haul.  Its got nothing to do with a quick win, it is about supporting the Maidsafe project and hoping that it will pay off much MUCH further down the line. I couldn't give a crap about MSC investors dumping coins below IPO value, that's up to them hopefully they will be kicking themselves a couple of years from now when safecoins are floating at a healthy value.

At the end of the day BTC investors were promised 17,000 maid for 1 btc (+40% bonus) and thats what was delivered. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't get me wrong I still feel for those who lost out on the BTC > MSC > BTC but this sale was very unpredictable and as they say "the early bird gets the worm".

At the end of the day it's over with now, instead of bickering on here like little children lets all sit back, take a deep breath, hold onto our maidsafe coins and lets see how this really plays out in the long term. Finger pointing and jumping to conclusions mid game is a pointless waste of energy and oxygen. The starting pistol has fired. If your in the race just keep running.

And for those of your who didn't invest and are still complaining. Why? Are you that concerned for other forum members well-being or are you just seeking the attention?

My 2 cents.

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May 02, 2014, 05:15:45 PM
 #762

As a BTC investor i effectively paid a premium for my MSAFE but i'm in this for the long term so agree with biggzi and others that people need to move on but if there's going to a long term the development team need to become a lot more commercially aware.
We have about 5 loud mouth idiots screaming and crying.  MaidSafe can't spend their day trying to explain things to them.  The funds are a bit short.  Time to work to move forward and get the MaidSafe network running on the money they have.  Looking back and trying to appease that idiot ChungDungHum is the only threat to a very successful MaidSafe network. 

When the BTC investors have 10X on their money, they will be a little more satisfied.  The MSC investors better find a way to return their ill gotton profits back to the Mastercoin community / foundation. 

Let's face it, the guys selling their MaidSafe today are the MSC whale trying to realize their profits and convert them to BTC.  This bullshit has to stop.  MaidSafe price, if the IPO went cleanly would probably be somewhere around .0006 by now and everyone would be very happy. 

The MSC whale sell off is killing MaidSafe and Mastercoin.  Stop it now.  The MSC whales should suck it up and buy MaidSafe on the open market.

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May 02, 2014, 05:23:02 PM
 #763

As a BTC investor i effectively paid a premium for my MSAFE but i'm in this for the long term so agree with biggzi and others that people need to move on but if there's going to a long term the development team need to become a lot more commercially aware.
We have about 5 loud mouth idiots screaming and crying.  MaidSafe can't spend their day trying to explain things to them.  The funds are a bit short.  Time to work to move forward and get the MaidSafe network running on the money they have.  Looking back and trying to appease that idiot ChungDungHum is the only threat to a very successful MaidSafe network. 

When the BTC investors have 10X on their money, they will be a little more satisfied.  The MSC investors better find a way to return their ill gotton profits back to the Mastercoin community / foundation. 

Let's face it, the guys selling their MaidSafe today are the MSC whale trying to realize their profits and convert them to BTC.  This bullshit has to stop.  MaidSafe price, if the IPO went cleanly would probably be somewhere around .0006 by now and everyone would be very happy. 

The MSC whale sell off is killing MaidSafe and Mastercoin.  Stop it now.  The MSC whales should suck it up and buy MaidSafe on the open market.

The MSC sell off is coming from China, and is a direct result of your insults.
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May 02, 2014, 06:04:50 PM
 #764


The MSC sell off is coming from China, and is a direct result of your insults.
Of course it's because of China. Every time crypto currencies dive in price it's because of Chine.

 

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May 02, 2014, 06:16:16 PM
 #765


At the end of the day BTC investors were promised 17,000 maid for 1 btc (+40% bonus) and thats what was delivered. Nothing more, nothing less.
My 2 cents.

Your logic is ridiculous. I see a couple of other people defending this robbery with these insane arguments.

So if 17000 maidsafecoins plunge to zero in value, nothing is lost right? Because you've still got your 17000 maidsafecoins worth nothing?  Roll Eyes

Simple fact is, anyone who invested via BTC (which was millions of dollars worth in total) have realised an instant loss. Btw what happened with maidsafe in a regulated market would actually be illegal. People have served jail time for dodgy IPO offerings which screw investors. So for people to come in here and say "oh you've still gotten your 17,000 maidsafe coins what's the problem? :trollface:" are making themselves look very ignorant indeed.

Some very negative press will be coming maidsafe's way soon.

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May 02, 2014, 07:22:09 PM
 #766

.. If they try to compensate BTC users "printing" more MaidSafe for them, would be really unfair for the BTC users who bought MSC for the "promotion".

That seems like it would have been a very small percentage of the actual MSC investors, as MSC investing was closed early.
We don't know what percent of those MSC investors were BTC investors who bought MSC (2%-5%?) but we know 100% of BTC investors got screwed. We should focus on what can be done to help the most people, not worry about a small few who got burned because they tried to take advantage of an unfair situation.



I'm going to give them a couple more days to clear this up. At the bare minimum they need to acknowledge clearly that one party of people were able to acquire safecoins significantly cheaper than the other party of people at the same time. Thus causing BTC investors to realise an instant loss.


Instant loss?  I invested via BTC and I still have all my maidsafecoin.  I've experienced zero loss.

learn2economics, if everyone else's money is worth twice what your money is worth and your money doubles in value, you've lost half of your potential profit. That's the same as if someone put their hand in your wallet and took half of the money you had to invest.

Yes, you've experienced a loss, you just haven't realized that loss yet.
You will realize this loss when you go to sell and the person beside you (who invested the same amount via MSC) earns twice as much.

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May 02, 2014, 08:23:19 PM
 #767

You people... dare to whine... being the few thousand human holding safecoins in your pocket... and the rest of 7 BILLION DOES NOT.

I would like to hurt you... YES. Is nothing ever enough for you?

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May 02, 2014, 09:33:38 PM
 #768

I was one of the investors who bought (a small amount) of MSC in the aim of getting a better rate for the MSAFE.  I missed the deadline by 1 minute, but David Johnston of bitangels allowed me to send the MSC I bought to him and traded the MSAFE with me at the crowdsale rate. 

I also bought in with BTC during the IPO while waiting for this trade to go down to make sure I didn't miss it.  I predicted that the value of MSAFE had effectively been devalued to below the IPO rate before the IPO was even over due to the BTC investors essentially bailing out huge MSC bag holders, who would then presumably sell off their MSAFE into BTC as a way of cashing out of MSC.  I realised this and placed a low order for MSAFE on the exchange too, but bought in anyway at the IPO rate despite being aware of this, just because it's such an awesome project I didn't want to risk missing the opportunity.  It ticks all the boxes, ideologically, technically as well as being a potentially brilliant investment.

Clearly the IPO went a bit wrong but I'm pleased with my purchase and think Maidsafe is potentially awesome and I'm glad to be part of it and look forward to becoming a 'farmer' myself.

The price doesn't matter currently as the Maidsafe test net hasn't even launched yet.

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May 02, 2014, 09:56:23 PM
 #769

"This gave us cause for concern, but experts in the field reassured us the MSC part of sale would be minimal."

They can't expect this when offering a 3:1 better offer when paying with MSC.
The question is, are they idiots or liying?


"Days before the sale we found out the loan amount of MSC would not cover the bitcoin part of the sale, this floored us. A date was set, we had done loads of meetings, talks and interviews stating this. Was MaidSafe going to fail in such a huge step? No we were determined not to. It was suggested we could set the MSC -> BTC rate at 0.3 or 0.4 which we read and nearly collapsed. This was 3 or 4 times market value, how would this be possible. We were convinced to set a rate of 0.2 and the sale could be funded to make sure BTC holders were covered. Again it was stated that MSC would not be above 25% of the sale."

I have no words for this  Shocked Shocked Shocked

Source: http://metaquestions.me/2014/05/01/surviving-a-crowd-sale/

After reading the line regarding the valuation of MSC shares at 3-4 times their current market value (in essence devaluing safecoin shares) and NOT expecting a mad rush to snatch up as much as possible, I have to assume malicious intent.

Let's put this in perspective:
Two people walk into a store, one is paying in US dollars and the other is paying in Euro.
The owner comes up to these two people and says "anyone paying in Euro gets 75% off!".

Who do you think is going to spend more?
The person paying in EURO has an incentive to spend as much as he can, as he is in essence tripling or quadrupling his money.

What makes this worse is it was set up in a way that it was trade-able on an exchange from day one.
I can't accept that level of oversight on a project this big and this important.

Maidsafe, I want to trust you, but you are giving me reason not to.
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May 02, 2014, 10:34:06 PM
 #770

MasterCoin's high profile backers; Brock Pierce, David Johnston etc--  guys with fingers in lots of pies  had a discussion, pulled a few strings and came up with a novel idea to enrich themselves further.

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May 02, 2014, 11:25:21 PM
 #771



At the end of the day it's over with now, instead of bickering on here like little children lets all sit back, take a deep breath, hold onto our maidsafe coins and lets see how this really plays out in the long term. Finger pointing and jumping to conclusions mid game is a pointless waste of energy and oxygen. The starting pistol has fired. If your in the race just keep running.

And for those of your who didn't invest and are still complaining. Why? Are you that concerned for other forum members well-being or are you just seeking the attention?

My 2 cents.
+1
thank you for bringing some sanity to this discussion

Bending over and taking it up the rear seems like a very poor method of accomplishing change or seeking compensation for damages.
By that logic any time we are abused, mistreated or slighted in any way we should just sit back and take a deep breath and forget about it, because "it's over with now" anyway?
This logic is so pathetic.

Yes if a drunk driver slams his porche into the side of your parked vehicle and you are badly injured, whats the point of seeking compensation for your loss? It's in the past right? It's already happened? What kind of moron are we dealing with here.

People have been ripped off, they have a right to voice their opinions, concerns and disapproval.
Sanity my ass. If something is wrong it is our duty to try make it right. You ever hear the expression "if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"?

Apathy is one of the key elements that has lead to the disgraceful state of this community.
We could make coin launches fair and IPO's safe for investors.
We could demand the operator of bitcointalk implement community agreed-upon rules and regulations for coin launches.
We could prevent 100% of all fraudulent scamcoins like stackcoin and edgecoin.


But too many people have your fucking retarded apathetic attitude.
And so people will keep getting scammed, and we will continue to see copycoin after copycoin.
This shits only going to keep getting worse, and we are going to keep diluting the value of all our current coins because everyone wants to mine the newest colorcoin (yea like those are going anywhere) because we as a community are too fucking greedy and or apathetic to say:
  • no, I will not mine your coingen.io coin
  • I will not make a pool for your copycoin
  • I will not translate your ANN to whatever language
  • I will not participate in your free giveaways.

Yea because we all wanna make that sweet $42 dollars dumping those worthless bits and bytes on the exchanges.
anyway /rantmodeoff,

tl;dr you guys are chumps and obviously narrow minded. What isn't important to you must not be important right?

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May 03, 2014, 01:05:43 AM
 #772

What was the IPO price for BTC and MSC (including whatever bonus)?

Why was the IPO done on Mastercoin? Was there any advantage?






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May 03, 2014, 01:29:04 AM
 #773

Maidsafe’IPO=they cash out a serious volume of Mastercoin
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May 03, 2014, 01:30:03 AM
 #774

Maidsafe’IPO=they cash out a serious volume of Mastercoin

I am asking about the official reason.






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May 03, 2014, 02:53:39 AM
 #775

What was the IPO price for BTC and MSC (including whatever bonus)?

Why was the IPO done on Mastercoin? Was there any advantage?



They should credit BTC Backers for additional MS otherwise the Proof of Legitimacy for Maidsafe is %50 or less!!

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May 03, 2014, 03:58:52 AM
 #776

I'm not selling my MSC, because I believe it is an awesome project, and I really think we are going to gain money in the next months.  But said that, I cannot understand how people can have this mild criticism about this issue.

Pricing going from "16" to "42"  depending on how you are paying  is an unfair( or even illegal) movement for whatever IPO we are talking about.

Giving more msc, till prices are equal dont affect to the fundrising, except giving them more credibility. They didnt say clearly in their web that buying with msc would be much much cheaper, so  If anyone, who transformed their btc into msc to exploit this IPO,  loses this advantage is fair enough to me.

But this is only my opinion, and besides this "faulty" IPO. I'm still supporting the project.
 

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May 03, 2014, 04:17:23 AM
 #777

We should also move this conversation over to http://safecointalk.org/ this might eventually become the official forum.

In addition this conversation was brought up over there: http://safecointalk.org/index.php/topic,42.msg194.html

But it seems davidpbrown has made it clear the IPO was legit, many of us disagree.
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May 03, 2014, 05:10:55 AM
 #778

I can't understand how the fact Mastercoin has no value at this volume goes over most of your heads  Huh

1         x  Mastercoin = $33.5 each Grin
10        x Mastercoin = $33.5 each  Cool
100      x  Mastercoin = $32.33 each  Cheesy
1000     x Mastercoin = $28.79 each  Smiley
10000   x Mastercoin = $3.45 each   Sad
100000 x  Mastercoin = $0.41 each  Cry
 

If the little value1 Mastercoin has is derived from it's usefulness at issuing assets to business, then could someone please explain what incentive a business has to use Mastercoin under its current business strategy? 234. If you come to the conclusion a business has absolutely no incentive, please rethink David Irvine and the Mastercoin teams motives and re-asses Mastercoins value as a currency.

Hints:

1. Mastercoins haven't gone up in value, the coins have no inherent value and are simply part of an un-collapsed ponzi scheme. Any speculative value is the same speculative value that drives ponzi scheme 2.0's like dodgecoin. Money going in is fine and everyone is happy, money coming out gets a bit more tricky!

2.Their is no incentive. Issuing assets must be free (or bitcoin dust as per competing alpha systems) or the business model is floored.

3. This method of monetizing the system is not only disgusting but completely unattractive to any business person looking at it objectively.


4. David Irvine can buy his business property outright whilst shouldering the blame on Mastercoin in a scheme that will confuse most civil courts, under the terms of this arrangement it's up to a court to decide if he faces any liability for a $3 million dollar debt.
Chang Hum
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May 03, 2014, 05:22:32 AM
 #779

But it seems davidpbrown has made it clear the IPO was legit, many of us disagree.

David Brown says no one envisaged this happening. Could you remind David that John Kypri (me) envisaged it on the most read thread on the google group (even before a 3 fold incentive to use Mastercoin was put in place).  

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/maidsafe-development/j8QBYnXOYUI.

Or summarized by let's talk bitcoin and bitcoin pete:

http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/04/20/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/the-brokenness-of-maidsafe/#.U2MQMmKSzfI
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May 03, 2014, 10:56:07 AM
 #780


Bending over and taking it up the rear seems like a very poor method of accomplishing change or seeking compensation for damages.
By that logic any time we are abused, mistreated or slighted in any way we should just sit back and take a deep breath and forget about it, because "it's over with now" anyway?
This logic is so pathetic.

Yes if a drunk driver slams his porche into the side of your parked vehicle and you are badly injured, whats the point of seeking compensation for your loss? It's in the past right? It's already happened? What kind of moron are we dealing with here.


I tell you now I'm not going to get involved in silly little forum troll arguments... I have far too much important stuff going on in real life to concern myself with your own narrow minded opinions. (which we're all entitled to so please feel free to have them)

I have to say though comparing investing in stock of a digital asset which has risk, volatility, profit, gain, loss etc to being in a car crash simply shows your lack of understanding of my own situation and opinion. The only element of the two you could compare is the loss, of which I have none. I purchased 23,800 maidsafe coins... I still have 23,800 maidsafe coins. I don't care what the value of these are right now as I said I invested for the long game, I expect the price to go up and DOWN before any (if any) profit will be had. And yes maybe others got more for cheaper but I knew that this was possible before the off... if it really concerned me (or anyone else for that matter) I would have invested in MSC or not bothered investing at tall.

I can understand where you are coming from with taking learning from this IPO to ensure we mitigate risk in future IPO's but at the end of the day any kind of investment is a risk if you are not happy with the fact that you might loose 100% of your investment then you are in the wrong game. Sorry but throwing your toys out of the pram simply because you might loose out on an investment is a very immature way to act and you must be playing with money that you obviously cannot afford.

I can only assume that you are simply confusing my apathy with doing proper research and understanding the risks before I got involved (as with many other forum members). For me and also most other forums members Maidsafe delivered on what I was promised so thinking that bitching on a public forum will bring about compensation for my lack of (or not of) understanding is the craziest idea of ever heard of. What kind of world do you think we live in? This isn't narnia.

The only people who I can accept would be really angry right now are those our tried to buy using MSC and missed out, its a shame but maybe you should have got up earlier. And those who were in this for a quick profit and bought with BTC, in which case I say go screw yourself and give me your maid.


 
 
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