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Author Topic: [ANN] IPO of MaidSafe:  Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet  (Read 529643 times)
CallmeAbe
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May 04, 2014, 07:06:45 PM
 #801

MaidSafe is a bummer..  clearly amateurs   Im dumping small loss big lesson.  

BTW  MSC  lulz    please!  you embarrass yourselves in comparison to others in your area of development.

A  "dystopian future" was correct.
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May 04, 2014, 08:38:57 PM
 #802

My only complaint is that the original terms of the offering were changed after the sale started by limiting Mastercoin investment to 50% instead of just letting the sale proceed according to the original terms. If they only wanted 25% Mastercoin and the rest in Bitcoin, then these limits should have been in place and announced prior to the sale. It would have been much better to only accept Mastercoin for the sale at the original price they wanted based on the prevailing .08 BTC/MSC valuation. Mastercoin could continually resell the MSC back into the market for BTC during the presale to aquire the BTC they wanted, assuring a sufficient supply of MSC for the sale by recycling it, and stabilizing the MSC price during the sale by controlling the supply.

While I think it was a bad idea to allow investment from two different currencies at a pegged rate to each other, with very predictable results, this was announced prior to the sale. Investors knew about the rate differential going in. My computer has a calculator, which I used to compare the rates and relative price difference. In Windows, the calculator is under Start/Accesories/Calculator. On the Mac, it is in Dashboard. A spreadsheet may also be used to brute force this task.

From seeing how Protoshares rose before the snapshot for Bitshares and fell back to its previous level after, it could be assumed Mastercoin might do the same, so it would be safe to price Mastercoin purchased Safecoin at the level at which MSC was trading prior to the announcement of the Maidsafe presale. From sales volume of MSC from the Maidsafe announcement of the 3400 safecoin/MSC rate to the start of the sale it appeared that at least 20% of the sale would be from newly purchased Mastercoin alone. The unknown was the amount of MSC held by prior investors which would enter the presale.

I knew this and considered staying up for the start of the presale with my finger on the Mastercoin Sell button, but had not decided how much of the MSC I wanted to exchange for Safecoin, so decided to wait until the next day to see how things went. I wasn't surprised by the flood of MSC, but, again, I was very disappointed by the unannounced limit and cutoff. This would damage both Maidsafe and Mastercoin. After I cooled off, I ended up purchasing some Safecoin with BTC, and later, exchanged some MSC when the opportunity became available.

It would have been much better for Maidsafe to allow the sale to progress under the original terms, even if it meant ending up with only MSC. Bitcoin buyers could still buy in on the open market at a comparable price as Safecoin shares were sold by those just using them to exit MSC as they are now.

The current state isn't much different from a typical IPO where brokers are reselling the issued shares at a markup, only in this case, the brokers are previous MSC holders cashing out. While this is not how we like to see things done in our community, since crypto currencies are all about eliminating parasitic middlemen, it is a standard practice in conventional IPOs.

I still think Maidsafe is a strong project with a lot of potential, and a very good opportunity at current prices.
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May 04, 2014, 08:45:07 PM
 #803

Basically they needed funds to set up their safecoin network so they made this IPO. Now the mastercoins they received are pretty useless as they can't make much selling them due to no market depth and they can't use them to buy equipment directly. But the BTC on the other hand is what they're using right now to set up safecoin. The issue is that they're using the BTC investor funds and not the msc to set up safecoin, but they've given those investors the least bang for their buck.

Why do you think maidsafe stopped accepting msc during their IPO? They told everyone that it was to give BTC investors an opportunity to buy, but the most obvious reason is that they needed BTC much more than mastercoin. MSC can't pay for the servers they say they need.

I'm starting to doubt the legitimacy of a big portion of the MSC investors too. If they were able to purchase a huge amount of msafe to 'save' some for the btc investors, who's to say that they didn't purchase a huge portion in small chunks as well? After all, the investments are going back into their pockets.

I wonder if there would be grounds for a lawsuit by BTC investors if safecoin does actually take off in the future?

Rofl have you actually read what you are saying?

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.


Dodgy IPO's have led to people serving jail time.

I guess you were one of the people who said pirate40 would never get in trouble for running a Bitcoin ponzi.

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May 04, 2014, 10:06:21 PM
 #804

Basically they needed funds to set up their safecoin network so they made this IPO. Now the mastercoins they received are pretty useless as they can't make much selling them due to no market depth and they can't use them to buy equipment directly. But the BTC on the other hand is what they're using right now to set up safecoin. The issue is that they're using the BTC investor funds and not the msc to set up safecoin, but they've given those investors the least bang for their buck.

Why do you think maidsafe stopped accepting msc during their IPO? They told everyone that it was to give BTC investors an opportunity to buy, but the most obvious reason is that they needed BTC much more than mastercoin. MSC can't pay for the servers they say they need.

I'm starting to doubt the legitimacy of a big portion of the MSC investors too. If they were able to purchase a huge amount of msafe to 'save' some for the btc investors, who's to say that they didn't purchase a huge portion in small chunks as well? After all, the investments are going back into their pockets.

I wonder if there would be grounds for a lawsuit by BTC investors if safecoin does actually take off in the future?

Rofl have you actually read what you are saying?

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.


Dodgy IPO's have led to people serving jail time.

I guess you were one of the people who said pirate40 would never get in trouble for running a Bitcoin ponzi.


"excuse me officer i would like to report a crime, i bought into an IPO and got exactly what was offered to me , my sending those bitcoin counted as a verbal contract that i would receive a certain amount of tokens, i received the exact amount of tokens stated in the agreement, which by my sending btc to the deposit address i was entered into said verbal contract. I wish to complain that some other people got it for a better price than me therefore getting more for a lower price"

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.

Pirate40 created what was like a digital hedge fund offering huge profits to investors and ran off with the money

Maidsafe held an IPO for interested parties to support a coin, their investment would be in exchange for tokens to later be traded into a currency. Some people were able to buy those tokens for less than others. No mention of Huge profits or gains for investors.

if you want to carry on trying to connect 2 things that are completely unrelated and would be seen completely differently under law, especially since maidsafe has performed as advertised currently. Its not good how they have performed, i would say even i am a little pissed off at how they have handled it. But a more main concern of mine is the next 1-2 months of inactivity while they set everything up and test the testnet out and hope there isn't any problems delaying release even longer. That is more damaging to the currency considering its on an open exchange that cannot withdraw and has lots of impatient people waiting to escape with a quick buck or 2 profit as it begins to maybe rise on the news.

It still doesn't change the fact : There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit (in this particular case and at this particular moment)
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May 04, 2014, 11:06:58 PM
 #805

Basically they needed funds to set up their safecoin network so they made this IPO. Now the mastercoins they received are pretty useless as they can't make much selling them due to no market depth and they can't use them to buy equipment directly. But the BTC on the other hand is what they're using right now to set up safecoin. The issue is that they're using the BTC investor funds and not the msc to set up safecoin, but they've given those investors the least bang for their buck.

Why do you think maidsafe stopped accepting msc during their IPO? They told everyone that it was to give BTC investors an opportunity to buy, but the most obvious reason is that they needed BTC much more than mastercoin. MSC can't pay for the servers they say they need.

I'm starting to doubt the legitimacy of a big portion of the MSC investors too. If they were able to purchase a huge amount of msafe to 'save' some for the btc investors, who's to say that they didn't purchase a huge portion in small chunks as well? After all, the investments are going back into their pockets.

I wonder if there would be grounds for a lawsuit by BTC investors if safecoin does actually take off in the future?

Rofl have you actually read what you are saying?

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.


Dodgy IPO's have led to people serving jail time.

I guess you were one of the people who said pirate40 would never get in trouble for running a Bitcoin ponzi.


"excuse me officer i would like to report a crime, i bought into an IPO and got exactly what was offered to me , my sending those bitcoin counted as a verbal contract that i would receive a certain amount of tokens, i received the exact amount of tokens stated in the agreement, which by my sending btc to the deposit address i was entered into said verbal contract. I wish to complain that some other people got it for a better price than me therefore getting more for a lower price"

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.

Pirate40 created what was like a digital hedge fund offering huge profits to investors and ran off with the money

Maidsafe held an IPO for interested parties to support a coin, their investment would be in exchange for tokens to later be traded into a currency. Some people were able to buy those tokens for less than others. No mention of Huge profits or gains for investors.

if you want to carry on trying to connect 2 things that are completely unrelated and would be seen completely differently under law, especially since maidsafe has performed as advertised currently. Its not good how they have performed, i would say even i am a little pissed off at how they have handled it. But a more main concern of mine is the next 1-2 months of inactivity while they set everything up and test the testnet out and hope there isn't any problems delaying release even longer. That is more damaging to the currency considering its on an open exchange that cannot withdraw and has lots of impatient people waiting to escape with a quick buck or 2 profit as it begins to maybe rise on the news.

It still doesn't change the fact : There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit (in this particular case and at this particular moment)

I agree there are no grounds for a lawsuit and it would be counter productive for all sides and all communities.

Lawsuits should be off the table. What they did was similar to a Kickstarter campaign where they had us donate Bitcoins or Mastercoins to receive Safecoins. They gave a discount to the Mastercoin holders.

While they may have botched the campaign, they did the best they could. It's now over and we have to move on. If you feel the Bitcoin community was wronged then you can give a discount to Bitcoin when you launch your project. If you want you can even airdrop onto the addresses who donated to this campaign or say people who purchase your product from these addresses get a discount.

In a free market anyone can give special deals to anyone else. This isn't anything like a scam, or fraud, because they announced the deal and followed through on it.
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May 05, 2014, 03:53:48 AM
 #806

So maidsafe did the best they could and still managed to botch the campaign so miserably. I wonder what they'll botch next.

We will make sure everyone gets fair treatment and BTC backers are well looked after. Mad just now, the computers are not quick enough, but I will be back to post soon. It's unbelievable and everyone is gonna be happy I think

Fair indeed  Undecided

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May 05, 2014, 06:07:23 AM
 #807


Here is what Maidsafe claim :

A new p2p Internet. Free and decentralised.

Here is what it is (so far) :

A copy of a 14 years old open source project named freenet.
A centralized closed source software that need you to trust the staff not to look at your data and sell it to NSA.
An incentive to centralize all the network because of the competition for money. As a consequence, your data could be deleted and lost.
An unfair IPO at a fixed max amount that force people to send in a hurry without checking the project.
A huge pump&dump manipulation for MasterCoin.
A future pedophile network.
A money laundering for MtGox stolen Bitcoins.





You had me until "A future pedophile network". So the government should shutdown TOR because it has pedophile content on it?

Looks like somebody wasn't up to speed: http://web.archive.org/web/20060208124607/http://www.fuckedcompany.com/den/
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May 05, 2014, 11:32:13 AM
 #808

Phinnaeus Gage, what's your opinion on Maidsafe and the Safecoin network? Have you read the paper and looked at the source? I am interested in your opinion as you're a very well respected member of the Bitcoin community.
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May 05, 2014, 12:31:30 PM
 #809


[/quote]

Looks like somebody wasn't up to speed: http://web.archive.org/web/20060208124607/http://www.fuckedcompany.com/den/
[/quote]

Ha Brilliant!
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May 05, 2014, 01:49:54 PM
 #810

There are a lot of interesting and promising discussions about maidsafe on google groups.

This thread is just populated by people whining about how they did not making a killing on the IPO.

When Facebook IPO and fell quickly to near $18,  did Facebook make the IPO investors whole?  No.  

There are risks to investing on an IPO.   That's just the way it works.  Grow up and deal with it.  

Also,  there are a ton of Bitcointalk users who's business model is to trashtalk a company with the hope of getting paid off to keep silent.  Kind of like a 'protection racket'.   



      
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Chang Hum
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May 05, 2014, 02:41:46 PM
 #811

There are a lot of interesting and promising discussions about maidsafe on google groups.

This thread is just populated by people whining about how they did not making a killing on the IPO.

When Facebook IPO and fell quickly to near $18,  did Facebook make the IPO investors whole?  No.  

There are risks to investing on an IPO.   That's just the way it works.  Grow up and deal with it.  

Also,  there are a ton of Bitcointalk users who's business model is to trashtalk a company with the hope of getting paid off to keep silent.  Kind of like a 'protection racket'.  



I made over 4 Bitcoins off this IPO and I'm one of the most outspoken people because it's clearly a scam. Prior to the IPO I sent David Irvine an email asking him to stop the IPO against my personal interests because at the time I believed he was a legit guy being conned by Mastercoin.

Facebook sold stock in their company during their IPO. David Irvine has collected $3million he doesn't have to pay back in exchange for i.o.u tickets (he clearly doesn't understand) for a coin he's shown he's clearly not capable of making. The two things are not comparable.

The way he's raised funding shows that he has nothing but contempt for his stupid investors a sentiment I'm starting to share with him.

$3million has gone in (that's being taken out of the pot to buy his office and pay salaries). $10million now has to come out of a pot with nothing in it (buy side of maidsafe) for investors to break even. For all of pirates critics at least he re-circulated a bit of his "investors" money during his ponzi days.
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May 05, 2014, 02:52:28 PM
 #812

There are a lot of interesting and promising discussions about maidsafe on google groups.

This thread is just populated by people whining about how they did not making a killing on the IPO.

When Facebook IPO and fell quickly to near $18,  did Facebook make the IPO investors whole?  No.  

There are risks to investing on an IPO.   That's just the way it works.  Grow up and deal with it.  

Also,  there are a ton of Bitcointalk users who's business model is to trashtalk a company with the hope of getting paid off to keep silent.  Kind of like a 'protection racket'.  



I made over 4 Bitcoins off this IPO and I'm one of the most outspoken people because it's clearly a scam. Prior to the IPO I sent David Irvine an email asking him to stop the IPO against my personal interests because at the time I believed he was a legit guy being conned by Mastercoin.

Facebook sold stock in their company during their IPO. David Irvine has collected $3million he doesn't have to pay back in exchange for i.o.u tickets (he clearly doesn't understand) for a coin he's shown he's clearly not capable of making. The two things are not comparable.

The way he's raised funding shows that he has nothing but contempt for his stupid investors a sentiment I'm starting to share with him.

$3million has gone in (that's being taken out of the pot to buy his office and pay salaries). $10million now has to come out of a pot with nothing in it (buy side of maidsafe) for investors to break even. For all of pirates critics at least he re-circulated a bit of his "investors" money during his ponzi days.

Sheesh.  You are really one piece of work.

Yes,  the money raised clearly is to be used to pay for the further development of the coin.   In fact,  a lot more than $3 million has already been burned over the 8 years of software development for this coin. 

To call it a scam though is utterly ridiculous. 

Anyway,  I don't really care to have a conversation with you.


      
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May 05, 2014, 02:56:20 PM
 #813

Basically they needed funds to set up their safecoin network so they made this IPO. Now the mastercoins they received are pretty useless as they can't make much selling them due to no market depth and they can't use them to buy equipment directly. But the BTC on the other hand is what they're using right now to set up safecoin. The issue is that they're using the BTC investor funds and not the msc to set up safecoin, but they've given those investors the least bang for their buck.

Why do you think maidsafe stopped accepting msc during their IPO? They told everyone that it was to give BTC investors an opportunity to buy, but the most obvious reason is that they needed BTC much more than mastercoin. MSC can't pay for the servers they say they need.

I'm starting to doubt the legitimacy of a big portion of the MSC investors too. If they were able to purchase a huge amount of msafe to 'save' some for the btc investors, who's to say that they didn't purchase a huge portion in small chunks as well? After all, the investments are going back into their pockets.

I wonder if there would be grounds for a lawsuit by BTC investors if safecoin does actually take off in the future?

Rofl have you actually read what you are saying?

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.


Dodgy IPO's have led to people serving jail time.

I guess you were one of the people who said pirate40 would never get in trouble for running a Bitcoin ponzi.


"excuse me officer i would like to report a crime, i bought into an IPO and got exactly what was offered to me , my sending those bitcoin counted as a verbal contract that i would receive a certain amount of tokens, i received the exact amount of tokens stated in the agreement, which by my sending btc to the deposit address i was entered into said verbal contract. I wish to complain that some other people got it for a better price than me therefore getting more for a lower price"

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.

I'm not wasting my time arguing with someone who doesn't understand law.

If an IPO occurred in the regulated markets as it played out with maidsafe it would be criminal. End of story. Anyone who invested via BTC made an instant loss due to Maidsafe botching up the allocation of the coins.

If a company has terms and conditions on a contract stating "I am allowed to screw you over" and I sign it, if the company screws me over they are still breaking the law.

Your only possible counter argument is taking the stance this isn't a regulated market.

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May 05, 2014, 03:25:19 PM
 #814

So what is now? When are we expecting some product, in three years?

From the website there are almost nothing new and no update in this thread. Any other information source for Maidsafe development?

Bitrated user: azwccc.
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May 05, 2014, 03:54:24 PM
 #815

Read the whitepapers and compile the source code.

Yes, it is a bit early at this time but if you are impatient then I suggest you sell your shares to a party with more patience.


      
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.......Whitepaper.......
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May 05, 2014, 07:03:58 PM
 #816

So what is now? When are we expecting some product, in three years?

From the website there are almost nothing new and no update in this thread. Any other information source for Maidsafe development?

Your best place to look for updates is probable on the maidsafe google group or on Safecoin Talk.

Taken from a post on Safecoin Talk posted on the 26th April....

Quote from: dyamanaka
The MaidSafe Team "estimates" the SAFE Network will be launched within 3-4 months, but it really depends on the results of the test nets, then the vault tests, and finally beta release.


 
 
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May 05, 2014, 07:12:14 PM
 #817

So what is now? When are we expecting some product, in three years?

From the website there are almost nothing new and no update in this thread. Any other information source for Maidsafe development?

Your best place to look for updates is probable on the maidsafe google group or on Safecoin Talk.

Taken from a post on Safecoin Talk posted on the 26th April....

Quote from: dyamanaka
The MaidSafe Team "estimates" the SAFE Network will be launched within 3-4 months, but it really depends on the results of the test nets, then the vault tests, and finally beta release.

Most folks here post to generate FUD.

All the information is in the sources that you mention.

3-4 months seem to be a long time for crypto-currencies, however this isn't a pump and dump coin.

Most pump and dump coins lose like 90% of their value in 3-4 months.


      
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May 05, 2014, 07:16:45 PM
 #818

David I know you read this thread due to comments you've recently made on the google group page. I typed out a reply before realizing you've given me yet another ban, this time for stopping you from from scamming another member of the group out of over $900 by charging 125% market rate for coins! Anyway can't be fucked to go through the 60 second procedure to create another gmail account so I'll post reply here.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/maidsafe-development/6nMpc4qI7ow


David Irwin: The more safecoin a farmer can farm the better for them. If less than 10% is purchased there is more to farm. I hope that makes it clear.


I don't want to have to explain everything to you about your own investment proposition but.. 456016401 Maidsafe were sold during the crowdsale which have to be converted into 429496729.6 Safe. Meaning you can burn up to the difference of 26,519,671 before you even potentially effect the number of resulting Safecoins.

Christopher wishes to purchase between 200-250k Maidsafe, A tiny proportion of the coins that were oversold. So no it doesn't mean more safecoin for farmers (even though this original statement was completely meaningless anyway).
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May 05, 2014, 07:27:36 PM
 #819

Hi there I got a few questions about safecoin.

I was reading about it and what I understand so far is that it's proof-of-resource, so basically farmers gain coins by providing storage and processing power on the network for the benefit of other people. Now bitcoin is proof-of-work, so the miners get a percentage of the coins based on how much work they contribute. As we know, the value of bitcoin goes up and down due to speculators and other reasons. When the value dips a lot and mining isn't profitable, people start taking their miners offline reducing the total hashing power.

Now let's compare this to the proof-of-resource model, say safecoin has 1000 terabytes of cloud storage and the price drops to a point where it's not profitable to keep farming machines running so many take them offline. Now let's say that 950 terabytes of storage was being used to store data, but after a lot of farmers went offline there's only 750 terabytes available. What would happen to the excess data? Is a scenario like this possible? I'm still trying to understand this whole concept as it does seem a little confusing.

Also are 51% attacks a possibility on proof-of-resource networks? It would seem a lot easier for a giant corporation to gain 51% of the network I guess.

Can someone with more knowledge give their insight please?

Thanks
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May 05, 2014, 07:47:07 PM
 #820

Basically they needed funds to set up their safecoin network so they made this IPO. Now the mastercoins they received are pretty useless as they can't make much selling them due to no market depth and they can't use them to buy equipment directly. But the BTC on the other hand is what they're using right now to set up safecoin. The issue is that they're using the BTC investor funds and not the msc to set up safecoin, but they've given those investors the least bang for their buck.

Why do you think maidsafe stopped accepting msc during their IPO? They told everyone that it was to give BTC investors an opportunity to buy, but the most obvious reason is that they needed BTC much more than mastercoin. MSC can't pay for the servers they say they need.

I'm starting to doubt the legitimacy of a big portion of the MSC investors too. If they were able to purchase a huge amount of msafe to 'save' some for the btc investors, who's to say that they didn't purchase a huge portion in small chunks as well? After all, the investments are going back into their pockets.

I wonder if there would be grounds for a lawsuit by BTC investors if safecoin does actually take off in the future?

Rofl have you actually read what you are saying?

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.


Dodgy IPO's have led to people serving jail time.

I guess you were one of the people who said pirate40 would never get in trouble for running a Bitcoin ponzi.


"excuse me officer i would like to report a crime, i bought into an IPO and got exactly what was offered to me , my sending those bitcoin counted as a verbal contract that i would receive a certain amount of tokens, i received the exact amount of tokens stated in the agreement, which by my sending btc to the deposit address i was entered into said verbal contract. I wish to complain that some other people got it for a better price than me therefore getting more for a lower price"

1. There is zero grounds for any kind of lawsuit.

I'm not wasting my time arguing with someone who doesn't understand law.

If an IPO occurred in the regulated markets as it played out with maidsafe it would be criminal. End of story. Anyone who invested via BTC made an instant loss due to Maidsafe botching up the allocation of the coins.

If a company has terms and conditions on a contract stating "I am allowed to screw you over" and I sign it, if the company screws me over they are still breaking the law.

Your only possible counter argument is taking the stance this isn't a regulated market.

Rofl "you are not wasting your time arguing with someone who doesn't understand the law?" then proceeds to continue arguing.

I will take that as i understand the law thanks.

Your only possible counter argument is taking the stance this is a regulated market.





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