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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1342276 times)
patronis
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July 06, 2014, 02:01:42 PM
 #6761

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how does he know? I dont think so

usually compound intrest kills pos, for example if you get stake every 8 hours and you take your stake out after 365 days you will have 60% intrest on VRC.  Inflation can kill pos too,   there is no mininig investment involved , startup costs , electricity , etc.
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July 06, 2014, 02:10:53 PM
 #6762

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how does he know? I dont think so

usually compound intrest kills pos, for example if you get stake every 8 hours and you take your stake out after 365 days you will have 60% intrest on VRC.  Inflation can kill pos too,   there is no mininig investment involved , startup costs , electricity , etc.

That's not true. Compound interest doesn't mean 60% interest. You don't get 2.2% every 8 hours... you get that per year. Compounded it's ~2.24% instead of 2.20.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
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xibeijan
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July 06, 2014, 02:12:25 PM
 #6763

Hmmm... how does verisend work?  If it's centralised then I don't think it's as good as DarkSend. Sad

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July 06, 2014, 02:13:26 PM
 #6764

Wow, VRC taking a bath!   Shocked

385 support broken.  Also penetrated 369 support. 



im telling u guys again.. there will be a decrease in price back to 25k~ after that to 20k~. this is normal because not 1 altcoin is here to stay. .......



I cant believe in so deep decline, I already made orders @29,999 and @30,999 and @31,999

This is b/c Verisend is not decentralised.  it's just a toy distraction from real anonymous protocols AFAIK.

patronis
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July 06, 2014, 02:13:49 PM
 #6765

Quote
how does he know? I dont think so

usually compound intrest kills pos, for example if you get stake every 8 hours and you take your stake out after 365 days you will have 60% intrest on VRC.  Inflation can kill pos too,   there is no mininig investment involved , startup costs , electricity , etc.

That's not true. Compound interest doesn't mean 60% interest. You don't get 2.2% every 8 hours... you get that per year. Compounded it's ~2.24% instead of 2.20.

ok so what does compound intrest mean Huh
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July 06, 2014, 02:17:44 PM
 #6766

Quote
how does he know? I dont think so

usually compound intrest kills pos, for example if you get stake every 8 hours and you take your stake out after 365 days you will have 60% intrest on VRC.  Inflation can kill pos too,   there is no mininig investment involved , startup costs , electricity , etc.

That's not true. Compound interest doesn't mean 60% interest. You don't get 2.2% every 8 hours... you get that per year. Compounded it's ~2.24% instead of 2.20.

ok so what does compound intrest mean Huh

You gain it right away, and then it works for you on the next. You will gain and add your previous amount to your next total, thus compounding the benefits from each additional payment.

Instead of getting interest payments once a year that are off your baseline investment.


Which is why compounding interest is better than non compounding interest in terms of the holder. In this case though, the overall % is reasonably small. Enough to encourage use, but not enough to deflate the currency. at the low 2%, dilution shouldn't be a problem.

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July 06, 2014, 02:19:28 PM
 #6767

Hmmm... how does verisend work?  If it's centralised then I don't think it's as good as DarkSend. Sad

devs are workin on it. As soon as people will set up their own ringnodes for decentralisation . In term of anonymity every mixing process provides the same lvl of anonymity and it doesnt matter if it is coinjoint or masternode or ringnodes...no normal person will track u and goverment will allways track you because you system chip , router and everything has a direct backdoor for nsa ..all this anon bullshit just fuggazy faggazy ..it all fairy dust Wink
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July 06, 2014, 02:19:56 PM
 #6768

so basiclly is you get staked every 8 hours and you dont take it out , at the end of the year you dont have x amount +2,2% but much much more.
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July 06, 2014, 02:20:58 PM
 #6769

here is a very intresting article i found on the litecoin tread on POS what do you guys think??


Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some:

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital....
There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked.
Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake.   
 
With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying.
This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do

PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry..

PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s).

To 51% PoS is dead easy:
You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.).
As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain.  Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything).  Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations.
Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito.
There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past..   

But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%).
NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change. source
In the case of nxt the coin will always remain at the mercy of alias "BCNext". And the other 71 aliases just got some nxt depending on the proportion of the bitcoins sent. As you can see here he received a total of 22 btc:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3253189#msg3253189
Interesting the 3rd post got a quote where the original post is missing. Most be a lot of posts deleted it seems.

Are all IPO coins scams? Whoever runs the IPO can send in x BTC with dozens or hundreds of fake accounts, get 90% of the coin count, then he pays nothing since all the BTC comes back to him anyway.  It's just some bogus license to create as big of a premine as you could possibly want.



PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have  a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange.
(The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange)
Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value.

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July 06, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
 #6770

it's just a toy distraction from real anonymous protocols AFAIK.
The "toy distractions" that Nosker is creating will connect the outer mainstream world to the underworld of altcoins. Once they connect to this world they will then have the option to browse through the huge inventory of other "toys and gimmicks" that have up till now never interested the average person. Most of the population are not worried about being anonymous, especially since the majority have accounts on facebook.

vrc: VBL3M6EzwcYZWeuDpgjG9bDQzTKb4ydiDy
buy4crypto
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July 06, 2014, 02:27:41 PM
 #6771

here is a very intresting article i found on the litecoin tread on POS what do you guys think??


Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some:

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital....
There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked.
Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake.  
 
With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying.
This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do

PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry..

PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s).

To 51% PoS is dead easy:
You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.).
As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain.  Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything).  Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations.
Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito.
There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past..  

But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%).
NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change. source
In the case of nxt the coin will always remain at the mercy of alias "BCNext". And the other 71 aliases just got some nxt depending on the proportion of the bitcoins sent. As you can see here he received a total of 22 btc:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3253189#msg3253189
Interesting the 3rd post got a quote where the original post is missing. Most be a lot of posts deleted it seems.

Are all IPO coins scams? Whoever runs the IPO can send in x BTC with dozens or hundreds of fake accounts, get 90% of the coin count, then he pays nothing since all the BTC comes back to him anyway.  It's just some bogus license to create as big of a premine as you could possibly want.



PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have  a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange.
(The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange)
Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value.



That's a article expressing 1 viewpoint. Innovation doesn't need to be tied to power consumption. If people chose to believe the value in crypto is from mining it, then those people can invest in coins with that innovation.

If you want a coin with the opportunity to go mainstream, and be the next big thing. I don't think you can find a coin more suited for mainstream adoption then VeriCoin. Certainly the financial and business world is  trending toward mobile products and services. This coin will fit right into where the world is heading. Its undeniably leading that category for any alt at the moment.

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July 06, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
 #6772

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
Meaningless to anyone who knows that the whole argument of it being 'not backed by anything' is just the same tripe spouted about Bitcoin by FIAT holders and the idea of it not having advantage of a coin created tomorrow is nothing new or scary to anyone familiar with this industry.

It requires a PoS to be innovative, with value-added utility, a strong dev team who deliver, you know, like a certain coin we know.

In other words, that 'article' is mostly out-dated FUD with little of relevance to what is happening today in cryptocurrency.

But it does seem to get a lot of cut-and-paste action from those who haven't actually read it and considered whether its contents really equate to anything relevant.

Warning! Multiple ICO scams being launched through bot-posting forum threads, bought/hacked accounts and fake team profiles
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July 06, 2014, 02:36:19 PM
 #6773

here is a very intresting article i found on the litecoin tread on POS what do you guys think??


Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some:

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital....
There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked.
Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake.   
 
With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying.
This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do

PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry..

PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s).

To 51% PoS is dead easy:
You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.).
As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain.  Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything).  Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations.
Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito.
There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past..   

But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%).
NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change. source
In the case of nxt the coin will always remain at the mercy of alias "BCNext". And the other 71 aliases just got some nxt depending on the proportion of the bitcoins sent. As you can see here he received a total of 22 btc:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3253189#msg3253189
Interesting the 3rd post got a quote where the original post is missing. Most be a lot of posts deleted it seems.

Are all IPO coins scams? Whoever runs the IPO can send in x BTC with dozens or hundreds of fake accounts, get 90% of the coin count, then he pays nothing since all the BTC comes back to him anyway.  It's just some bogus license to create as big of a premine as you could possibly want.



PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have  a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange.
(The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange)
Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value.




well explanation about the POS issues, now every on can understand what it is all about.


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July 06, 2014, 02:37:42 PM
 #6774

^^^ Except it doesn't explain anything, that's the whole point of it being posted repeatedly, to spread FUD.

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July 06, 2014, 02:40:00 PM
 #6775

Can someone explain this:



http://blocks.vericoin.info/address/VQNu8EDUoXWK8T5LnDQw3cym8bhfJhh8iN
This guy has 4,5 MIL only in this adress... Also he receives a LOT of coins in one transactio (1,5 MIL in one transaction).

Also he kind of tries to hide it...
you can check it because he sends big amounts out and after that he keeps sending over and over to other adresses.

here:

http://blocks.vericoin.info/address/VPM5S9PmhHB8KgxvSnJhbfLz4Bk67CN2MV

If you keep following the outputs and the transaction ID's you will found out that this came from the 1,5 MIL output from the first link.
PS.: He sends it over around 25-30 adressess so you will need to spend 2-3 minutes following it...


Anyone else finds it weird?
I find pretty weird he trying to hide it...

The supply is 26-27 MIL... 4,5 MIL with only one guy would be around 15-20% of the supply...

Also it is not an exchange as exchange addresses usually looks like this:
http://blocks.vericoin.info/address/VTTxii8C7ux1wZtaSZwhzAwvdb9YdCuwzs


Anyone can explain?



This is a serious red flag...

#scam-alert

Ok...hang on here how the hell do you to jump to a conclusion like! Automatically it's a scam? Seriously?

How do you know this isn't on and exchange or cold storage account for an exchange?

lol thank you i wanted to see how long it took someone to answer that cold storage for exchange but you know what they say everything in crypto must be scam


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luisb
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Activity: 43


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July 06, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
 #6776

Have got a couple questions, I do apologise if they have been answered already, could not find it through the search function.

According to http://www.vericoin.info/interest.html

"Vericoin's interest rate can range from 0% to just under 3%. The practical range of interest is between 1.5-2.5%. Based upon the number of coins being staked (occurs when the wallet is open and unlocked), the interest rate varies. The more coins staked, the higher the interest rate. This provides incentive for keeping the client open and unlocked, further securing the network"

"The VeriCoin development team studied the economics of interest/inflation rates in model systems and the key range for a stable economy ranges between 1.5-2.5%. Finally, with a slow inflation rate (1.5-2.5% vs ~10% for Bitcoin), the coins have the potential to become a steadily valued currency"

So I understand, the incentive for keeping the client open and unlocked is.. not losing spending power? (eaten by 1.5-2.5% inflation rate)

Has Bitcoin any inflation rate? (not to mention 10%) I thought one of the "cons" of btc were that its deflationary..

thanks
DARKANGEL6415
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★Jetwin.com★


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July 06, 2014, 02:48:39 PM
 #6777

No, i have a 11 inch cock...not nice to fuck your girlie with it...screaming and yelling. Wish i could cut it
LOL to funny


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Youghoor
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July 06, 2014, 02:50:18 PM
 #6778

^^^ Except it doesn't explain anything, that's the whole point of it being posted repeatedly, to spread FUD.

Yeah , its FUD only and nothing else.


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pnosker
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July 06, 2014, 02:54:37 PM
 #6779

Have got a couple questions, I do apologise if they have been answered already, could not find it through the search function.

According to http://www.vericoin.info/interest.html

"Vericoin's interest rate can range from 0% to just under 3%. The practical range of interest is between 1.5-2.5%. Based upon the number of coins being staked (occurs when the wallet is open and unlocked), the interest rate varies. The more coins staked, the higher the interest rate. This provides incentive for keeping the client open and unlocked, further securing the network"

"The VeriCoin development team studied the economics of interest/inflation rates in model systems and the key range for a stable economy ranges between 1.5-2.5%. Finally, with a slow inflation rate (1.5-2.5% vs ~10% for Bitcoin), the coins have the potential to become a steadily valued currency"

So I understand, the incentive for keeping the client open and unlocked is.. not losing spending power? (eaten by 1.5-2.5% inflation rate)

Has Bitcoin any inflation rate? (not to mention 10%) I thought one of the "cons" of btc were that its deflationary..

thanks

Bitcoin is minting a block of 25 BTC every 10 minutes. There are 525,949 minutes in a year so 1,314,872 Bitcoins are being produced a year inflating the total supply. At current rates of $630 per Bitcoin, that is $696,882,160 a year in inflation.

Bitcoin will stop mining in just over 100 years. Then it will be deflationary.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
Isokoira
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July 06, 2014, 03:09:12 PM
 #6780

WOW...about to drop to 37k..

what da helllllll

Look at this guys post history, and nearly everyone here crying about the price gonna drop to nothing. They made it to obvious with these alias's /caugh IE

They been pumping, then bashing, then pumping... Min, VRC... and a couple other ones that a certain couple known manipulators been targetting.


Coincidence? Time and everything line up fairly well with PnD patterns. My god it just takes a minute of research to see right through these games.



+1

Direct from his post admitting spread FUD

I already admitted spreading FUD. I already edited them out of my posts. Dont have control over those who quoted my FUD. Since I am telling you myself that those are FUD, should be pretty self-explanatory to not take them seriously. I got what I needed. It was well worth it IMO.
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