[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[lab rat hoax]

Tempus, the way you describe it, it's
Like a damned if you do, damned if you don't
Situation.  You could be right and I hope you are,
which would mean that this project has not just been abandoned.
One thing I think about is , can you imagine investing
This much time and effort into a project and then just giving up?
It's much easier to imagine them taking a break from it than
just outright abandoning it...don't you agree?
The only way I see them abandoning it is if
they've painted themselves into a corner , unable
to create solutions. I would imagine they are frustrated, but more important
than that, motivated to see this thing take off
Because they'll be filthy stinkin rich and we'll
be riding their coattails to wealth

[1714698229]

1714698229

[1714698229]

1714698229

[1714698229]

1714698229

[Smoothmold]

BECAUSE HE IS A DEV YOU DUMBASS!!!!

man you are seriously stupid hey!! you no what makes me piss myself laughing is the fact that your user name is cloak yet you now troll cloak!!!! that's like a black guy who is racist against blacks!


that's you and that's how stupid you look!!

He WAS a CLOAK dev. You're really trying to make us believe that "dasource" is currently developping something for CLOAK

It looks like you're trying to SCAM us ...

1. dasource - Block Explorer / Data management expert

2. He is part of the team, but he doesn't develop PoSA or OneMarket.

3. The probability, that he knows more then us is nearly 100%

4. If he would know that Cloak is dead, he probably wouldn't assert the opposite. He would rather say nothing.

5. What he sais is not different to that what Alty said last week.


And: All the speculations the last days, that Alty sometimes would show up to push the price and than dump it, lead them into the Situation that they can't anything before they have something to release. Everybody should think about it, what would happen if Alty would say: "Yeah, we are working hard on it. It looks all good (...)". Immediately there would be a lot of Posts like "See, now it happens what I said... he want to push the price (...)"

So... they are in a Situation without right. If they say nothing everybody thinks they abandoned. If they show up and just say "we're still working on it" it would be wrong, too. Out of their perspective, there are just two ways:

1. Giving up
2. Developing

But they can't talk much before they have something to release. And I don't want to defend mistakes they made. And indeed, say made mistakes and this situation is a result of mistakes. But the whole situation is not exclusively their responsibility. There were many false accusations and FUD long ago out of the community. How should they react on it if there is the simple fact, that they need more time? Every talking would lead again to accusations and FUD. They can't do anything right at the moment.

If they would be pissed off... I would understand it. I also understand that every Investor is pissed. I'm one of them. But I also know: An investment in Crypto involves a high risk every time. And I'm absolutely sure, that it's pretty hard to be a Dev. It's a "burn-out-job". The current situation is the result of a very complex and destructive dynamic. And one of the most important aspects is time-pressure. And we all are part of it.

Very well said tempus. The Cloak Team has had some setbacks, but I have to believe they are still working on it.

Burn-out is very real when you have to deal with investors questions, accusations, etc... on a daily basis. I can understand why Alty has decided to stay silent and focus on the project.

I still feel as though this project will be completed, therefore I have not dumped all my coins. This is just an investment that goes to the back burner until it's completed and ready to roll. When will that be? Maybe next week, maybe next year...

well atleast he could tell us that he's working on it right?

[bangomatic]

BECAUSE HE IS A DEV YOU DUMBASS!!!!

man you are seriously stupid hey!! you no what makes me piss myself laughing is the fact that your user name is cloak yet you now troll cloak!!!! that's like a black guy who is racist against blacks!


that's you and that's how stupid you look!!

He WAS a CLOAK dev. You're really trying to make us believe that "dasource" is currently developping something for CLOAK

It looks like you're trying to SCAM us ...

1. dasource - Block Explorer / Data management expert

2. He is part of the team, but he doesn't develop PoSA or OneMarket.

3. The probability, that he knows more then us is nearly 100%

4. If he would know that Cloak is dead, he probably wouldn't assert the opposite. He would rather say nothing.

5. What he sais is not different to that what Alty said last week.


And: All the speculations the last days, that Alty sometimes would show up to push the price and than dump it, lead them into the Situation that they can't anything before they have something to release. Everybody should think about it, what would happen if Alty would say: "Yeah, we are working hard on it. It looks all good (...)". Immediately there would be a lot of Posts like "See, now it happens what I said... he want to push the price (...)"

So... they are in a Situation without right. If they say nothing everybody thinks they abandoned. If they show up and just say "we're still working on it" it would be wrong, too. Out of their perspective, there are just two ways:

1. Giving up
2. Developing

But they can't talk much before they have something to release. And I don't want to defend mistakes they made. And indeed, say made mistakes and this situation is a result of mistakes. But the whole situation is not exclusively their responsibility. There were many false accusations and FUD long ago out of the community. How should they react on it if there is the simple fact, that they need more time? Every talking would lead again to accusations and FUD. They can't do anything right at the moment.

If they would be pissed off... I would understand it. I also understand that every Investor is pissed. I'm one of them. But I also know: An investment in Crypto involves a high risk every time. And I'm absolutely sure, that it's pretty hard to be a Dev. It's a "burn-out-job". The current situation is the result of a very complex and destructive dynamic. And one of the most important aspects is time-pressure. And we all are part of it.

Very well said tempus. The Cloak Team has had some setbacks, but I have to believe they are still working on it.

Burn-out is very real when you have to deal with investors questions, accusations, etc... on a daily basis. I can understand why Alty has decided to stay silent and focus on the project.

I still feel as though this project will be completed, therefore I have not dumped all my coins. This is just an investment that goes to the back burner until it's completed and ready to roll. When will that be? Maybe next week, maybe next year...

well atleast he could tell us that he's working on it right?

I think the last time he checked in, he did say they were still working.

In crypto-time 2 weeks is an eternity...IRL 2 weeks is a flash.

[Camus]

i will always stay here for cloak,keep on guys

[tempus]

Tempus, the way you describe it, it's
Like a damned if you do, damned if you don't

Yes, related to "talking about it" without having a Release yet..

Situation.  You could be right and I hope you are,
which would mean that this project has not just been abandoned.
One thing I think about is , can you imagine investing
This much time and effort into a project and then just giving up?
It's much easier to imagine them taking a break from it than
just outright abandoning it...don't you agree?
The only way I see them abandoning it is if
they've painted themselves into a corner , unable
to create solutions. I would imagine they are frustrated, but more important
than that, motivated to see this thing take off
Because they'll be filthy stinkin rich and we'll
be riding their coattails to wealth

I often thought about the "Dev-Perspective" because I know it rudimentary myself. I'm making Songs, sometimes Hip-Hop-Beats and something like that. It's different, but there are similarities. It's much harder with time-pressure. It's much harder if money is involved (what I do is little money). It's very hard to do a good job if you think all the time: "It should be finished tomorrow." What I do is more like a Hobby. And if there is somebody waiting, its just one person. And a Song is more subjective. Even if it's not perfect the most don't hear little mistakes.

But Crypto-Devs:

1. There is a lot of time pressure, and if there is nothing to show, the price will reflect it.
2. There are many Investors waiting and asking
3. It's a lot money involved
4. And: It's working or not.

What I want to say with that comparison: I know pressure but I know it's nothing in comparison to developing a Crypto.
And I know, it can be important to focus on that what you do. It's not a question of time that it would be cost much time if they would show up once a day, looking at the reactions in the Thread or IRC, post something, check the price and all that. But if they would do it... there would be reactions on it. And in harder times the reactions are hard. The psychological effect is similar to mobbing. It needs a lot to face it everyday without getting damaged in your health.

And: The pressure is everytime in your mind. It's very hard to keep the focus on your work with all the pressure and the responsibility. And if you can't do something right you have to distance yourself... and focus. And I hope, that they do exactly that. I would do it. I think they made some mistakes, mostly in a communicative way. But they had to face very hard situations. It came all together: Bob dumped. And at that time, it was without fundamental reason. They failed the Audit and there were some disputes with Gnome. They broke with him. Maybe not good, but we can't know the whole story. There was the vacation at the same time. Not a good timing, but... Devs have a Life, too. There were the accusations about Insider-Trading. And yes, Alty said he sold some Cloak. But: If a Dev holds his own Coin he should be allowed to buy and sell. And he can't do it without Inside-Knowledge. Therefore it's always Insider-Trading. I did not understand this accusations. Because they do it all. Alty was just open about it. And, just to think about it: If a Dev would not hold his own Coin, what would we think about it? He has no trust in his own work? Should he do all the work without any profit from it?

What I want to say is: The situation was and is very complex and frustrating for all of us. But mostly it's about pressure. Even if I would have the skills to be a good Dev, I wouldn't do such a project. It's a Killer-Job. Satoshi did not have that pressure.

[tempus]

BECAUSE HE IS A DEV YOU DUMBASS!!!!

man you are seriously stupid hey!! you no what makes me piss myself laughing is the fact that your user name is cloak yet you now troll cloak!!!! that's like a black guy who is racist against blacks!


that's you and that's how stupid you look!!

He WAS a CLOAK dev. You're really trying to make us believe that "dasource" is currently developping something for CLOAK

It looks like you're trying to SCAM us ...

1. dasource - Block Explorer / Data management expert

2. He is part of the team, but he doesn't develop PoSA or OneMarket.

3. The probability, that he knows more then us is nearly 100%

4. If he would know that Cloak is dead, he probably wouldn't assert the opposite. He would rather say nothing.

5. What he sais is not different to that what Alty said last week.


And: All the speculations the last days, that Alty sometimes would show up to push the price and than dump it, lead them into the Situation that they can't anything before they have something to release. Everybody should think about it, what would happen if Alty would say: "Yeah, we are working hard on it. It looks all good (...)". Immediately there would be a lot of Posts like "See, now it happens what I said... he want to push the price (...)"

So... they are in a Situation without right. If they say nothing everybody thinks they abandoned. If they show up and just say "we're still working on it" it would be wrong, too. Out of their perspective, there are just two ways:

1. Giving up
2. Developing

But they can't talk much before they have something to release. And I don't want to defend mistakes they made. And indeed, say made mistakes and this situation is a result of mistakes. But the whole situation is not exclusively their responsibility. There were many false accusations and FUD long ago out of the community. How should they react on it if there is the simple fact, that they need more time? Every talking would lead again to accusations and FUD. They can't do anything right at the moment.

If they would be pissed off... I would understand it. I also understand that every Investor is pissed. I'm one of them. But I also know: An investment in Crypto involves a high risk every time. And I'm absolutely sure, that it's pretty hard to be a Dev. It's a "burn-out-job". The current situation is the result of a very complex and destructive dynamic. And one of the most important aspects is time-pressure. And we all are part of it.

Very well said tempus. The Cloak Team has had some setbacks, but I have to believe they are still working on it.

Burn-out is very real when you have to deal with investors questions, accusations, etc... on a daily basis. I can understand why Alty has decided to stay silent and focus on the project.

I still feel as though this project will be completed, therefore I have not dumped all my coins. This is just an investment that goes to the back burner until it's completed and ready to roll. When will that be? Maybe next week, maybe next year...

well atleast he could tell us that he's working on it right?

He did! But why should he repeat himself all the time? What would be the reaction in this situation? Everyday there are theories. Some call him Scammer. Some suspect that he would show up to hype a bit and then dump. Some suspect, he has already left. Some suspect they don't have the skills to deliver. He was on vacation and he could do what he want: Voices out of the Community called him a Scammer. He tweeted that he did not left. He came into the IRC.. he couldn't do anything right. Everybody was scared because the price. All the accusations were wrong. He came back and he promised to deliver. And now he says: The ETA was wrong. They need more time. Why did they set it? Because of pressure, because of questions how fast they would be. They saw the price and they knew, if they would have said: "Hmm... we work on it, but we don't know... lets say October or maybe November" ----> Crash... and more pressure.

And... the goal is that high, I don't know if it's rational to believe it could developed in 3 months. Maybe they just need time without pressure. But that's impossible in Crypto. All would be different if it wouldn't be about money or just a little money. They could test and test and test with the community until it's perfect. But now it's impossible, because of the price and the reactions out of the Community because of the price.

I'm pretty convinced that even the best Projects and the skilled Devs can be destroyed out of this dynamic.

[negamus]

Tempus, the way you describe it, it's
Like a damned if you do, damned if you don't

Yes, related to "talking about it" without having a Release yet..

Situation.  You could be right and I hope you are,
which would mean that this project has not just been abandoned.
One thing I think about is , can you imagine investing
This much time and effort into a project and then just giving up?
It's much easier to imagine them taking a break from it than
just outright abandoning it...don't you agree?
The only way I see them abandoning it is if
they've painted themselves into a corner , unable
to create solutions. I would imagine they are frustrated, but more important
than that, motivated to see this thing take off
Because they'll be filthy stinkin rich and we'll
be riding their coattails to wealth

I often thought about the "Dev-Perspective" because I know it rudimentary myself. I'm making Songs, sometimes Hip-Hop-Beats and something like that. It's different, but there are similarities. It's much harder with time-pressure. It's much harder if money is involved (what I do is little money). It's very hard to do a good job if you think all the time: "It should be finished tomorrow." What I do is more like a Hobby. And if there is somebody waiting, its just one person. And a Song is more subjective. Even if it's not perfect the most don't hear little mistakes.

But Crypto-Devs:

1. There is a lot of time pressure, and if there is nothing to show, the price will reflect it.
2. There are many Investors waiting and asking
3. It's a lot money involved
4. And: It's working or not.

What I want to say with that comparison: I know pressure but I know it's nothing in comparison to developing a Crypto.
And I know, it can be important to focus on that what you do. It's not a question of time that it would be cost much time if they would show up once a day, looking at the reactions in the Thread or IRC, post something, check the price and all that. But if they would do it... there would be reactions on it. And in harder times the reactions are hard. The psychological effect is similar to mobbing. It needs a lot to face it everyday without getting damaged in your health.

And: The pressure is everytime in your mind. It's very hard to keep the focus on your work with all the pressure and the responsibility. And if you can't do something right you have to distance yourself... and focus. And I hope, that they do exactly that. I would do it. I think they made some mistakes, mostly in a communicative way. But they had to face very hard situations. It came all together: Bob dumped. And at that time, it was without fundamental reason. They failed the Audit and there were some disputes with Gnome. They broke with him. Maybe not good, but we can't know the whole story. There was the vacation at the same time. Not a good timing, but... Devs have a Life, too. There were the accusations about Insider-Trading. And yes, Alty said he sold some Cloak. But: If a Dev holds his own Coin he should be allowed to buy and sell. And he can't do it without Inside-Knowledge. Therefore it's always Insider-Trading. I did not understand this accusations. Because they do it all. Alty was just open about it. And, just to think about it: If a Dev would not hold his own Coin, what would we think about it? He has no trust in his own work? Should he do all the work without any profit from it?

What I want to say is: The situation was and is very complex and frustrating for all of us. But mostly it's about pressure. Even if I would have the skills to be a good Dev, I wouldn't do such a project. It's a Killer-Job. Satoshi did not have that pressure.

That would all make sense if alty was coding cloak, he's not. He's proj manager, he hired people to do the coding for him. So it's not like it would be taking too much time from dev'ing to give updates. Dasource doesn't and wouldn't know more than us, he's stated that multiple times on IRC, even gnome was kept in the dark. As far as insider trading, Alty held on to the failed audit report for a few weeks as price went up, once the price was crashing and pressure from gnome, then he released the report and went afk (vacation). Onemaket isn't going to be released anytime soon, x11joe was pulled from onemarket to help the main dev and that was uptil a few days into sept, after that joe was going to be too busy irl to work on cloak. It seems cecil/ring/etc has failed to work and alty is once again afk like posa v2. He can't give updates bc he can only report what is passed on from the main dev, the main dev isn't having success with posa v3/cecil/ring and isn't reporting. This is what happens when you have a dev that doesn't dev his own coin, go check out Neos, Drk, Xst, etc. Those are devs that give updates b/c they are coding/working on the coins themselves. I don't think alty is a scammer, he really wanted to make cloak successful, but MrRgnome said it best: <+MrRGnome> I think the main dev always knew it wasn't trustless and took alty for a ride.

[Fidel Crypto]

who is the main dev then?, i am sorry i ask, i was not here from the beginning.

[mimini0147]

who is the main dev then?, i am sorry i ask, i was not here from the beginning.

No one know  ,
even for guys who follow since 1st day.

[BTCgraphics]

who is the main dev then?, i am sorry i ask, i was not here from the beginning.

Alty is the project manager, under him

MD
x11joe
and dasource

[tempus]

Tempus, the way you describe it, it's
Like a damned if you do, damned if you don't

Yes, related to "talking about it" without having a Release yet..

Situation.  You could be right and I hope you are,
which would mean that this project has not just been abandoned.
One thing I think about is , can you imagine investing
This much time and effort into a project and then just giving up?
It's much easier to imagine them taking a break from it than
just outright abandoning it...don't you agree?
The only way I see them abandoning it is if
they've painted themselves into a corner , unable
to create solutions. I would imagine they are frustrated, but more important
than that, motivated to see this thing take off
Because they'll be filthy stinkin rich and we'll
be riding their coattails to wealth

I often thought about the "Dev-Perspective" because I know it rudimentary myself. I'm making Songs, sometimes Hip-Hop-Beats and something like that. It's different, but there are similarities. It's much harder with time-pressure. It's much harder if money is involved (what I do is little money). It's very hard to do a good job if you think all the time: "It should be finished tomorrow." What I do is more like a Hobby. And if there is somebody waiting, its just one person. And a Song is more subjective. Even if it's not perfect the most don't hear little mistakes.

But Crypto-Devs:

1. There is a lot of time pressure, and if there is nothing to show, the price will reflect it.
2. There are many Investors waiting and asking
3. It's a lot money involved
4. And: It's working or not.

What I want to say with that comparison: I know pressure but I know it's nothing in comparison to developing a Crypto.
And I know, it can be important to focus on that what you do. It's not a question of time that it would be cost much time if they would show up once a day, looking at the reactions in the Thread or IRC, post something, check the price and all that. But if they would do it... there would be reactions on it. And in harder times the reactions are hard. The psychological effect is similar to mobbing. It needs a lot to face it everyday without getting damaged in your health.

And: The pressure is everytime in your mind. It's very hard to keep the focus on your work with all the pressure and the responsibility. And if you can't do something right you have to distance yourself... and focus. And I hope, that they do exactly that. I would do it. I think they made some mistakes, mostly in a communicative way. But they had to face very hard situations. It came all together: Bob dumped. And at that time, it was without fundamental reason. They failed the Audit and there were some disputes with Gnome. They broke with him. Maybe not good, but we can't know the whole story. There was the vacation at the same time. Not a good timing, but... Devs have a Life, too. There were the accusations about Insider-Trading. And yes, Alty said he sold some Cloak. But: If a Dev holds his own Coin he should be allowed to buy and sell. And he can't do it without Inside-Knowledge. Therefore it's always Insider-Trading. I did not understand this accusations. Because they do it all. Alty was just open about it. And, just to think about it: If a Dev would not hold his own Coin, what would we think about it? He has no trust in his own work? Should he do all the work without any profit from it?

What I want to say is: The situation was and is very complex and frustrating for all of us. But mostly it's about pressure. Even if I would have the skills to be a good Dev, I wouldn't do such a project. It's a Killer-Job. Satoshi did not have that pressure.

That would all make sense if alty was coding cloak, he's not. He's proj manager, he hired people to do the coding for him. So it's not like it would be taking too much time from dev'ing to give updates.

Yes, I know that he is not coding. But that doesn't change the situation that he can't do much right until there is something to release. He tried it. He said they are working hard many times etc. He also explained, that he want to prevent Pre-Hype und dump-on-release. I can't know if he is completely honest, but I know it makes sense. If he would explain everyday what they do, there would be extreme reactions on it. The one side would say he would and just want to hype, the other side would buy and getting impatient very fast and so on. Or.. some say, he should moderate the Thread, delete all the FUD. What would happen if he would do it? Immediately there would be accusations about censoring and new FUD and new accusations. He could delete as fulltime-job without any posivite result. He could discuss as fulltime-job... it wouldn't help. There are just two really relevant scenarios: Deliver or not deliver. Developing or giving up.

And... Alty doesn't code, but he feels the pressure. I would say he feels more pressure than the Devs.

Dasource doesn't and wouldn't know more than us, he's stated that multiple times on IRC, even gnome was kept in the dark.

I can't know what they know. But I know that Dascource said more than once that they are still at work.

As far as insider trading, Alty held on to the failed audit report for a few weeks as price went up, once the price was crashing and pressure from gnome, then he released the report and went afk (vacation).

I know. It was me who asked in the Channel if anybody would know who the Auditor was and it was Gnome answered. He started another channel. Alty showed up, too. They had a dispute about different "development-philosophies" and about Gnomes behavior and all that. I couldn't assess about right and wrong, but I saw some honesty on both sides.

I know also that Alty tried to held the failed Audit back. But I don't know if it was for weeks... I remember one week. But, doesn't matter. The point is: They tried to rush. They tried to solve it. I don't say it was smart how they managed all that. But the intention to rush doesn't come out of nothing. It's also pressure.  

 
Onemaket isn't going to be released anytime soon, x11joe was pulled from onemarket to help the main dev and that was uptil a few days into sept, after that joe was going to be too busy irl to work on cloak. It seems cecil/ring/etc has failed to work and alty is once again afk like posa v2. He can't give updates bc he can only report what is passed on from the main dev, the main dev isn't having success with posa v3/cecil/ring and isn't reporting. This is what happens when you have a dev that doesn't dev his own coin, go check out Neos, Drk, Xst, etc. Those are devs that give updates b/c they are coding/working on the coins themselves. I don't think alty is a scammer, he really wanted to make cloak successful, but MrRgnome said it best: <+MrRGnome> I think the main dev always knew it wasn't trustless and took alty for a ride.

Yes... maybe he is right, maybe he is wrong. I have much respect for Gnome and I would wish he would be still part of the team. It's a shame that they fell apart. But... the current situation is a fact. The pressure is a fact. That they did not start this project to scam anybody is a fact. And: That Alty hired the Devs says in my eyes: It wasn't profitable for him so far. He invested, not just as an Investor.

Btw: Neos is a great example for the dynamic I'm speaking of generally. Syntaks is a great Dev in every sense. I'm highly invested and I follow Neos very close and I'm convinced that it will be profitable for every Investor with some patience. But: They had to face some FUD and some pressure, too. Syntaks reaction was: He wanted to focus on coding instead discussing and moderating and he locked the Thread. The reaction was FUD and discussions on the IRC. Some got kicked (it was not Syntaks who kicked them) and than it was on Twitter. Syntaks is hard working and there is not one single reason to be concerned about the development. It all looks great. But nevertheless there were accusations and pressure and FUD since the beginning. There was also a threat per PM... It's just crazy. What I want to say is: It's nearly impossible to handle such a project without all this silly garbage, even if a Dev makes nothing (!) wrong.

More precise: If a project is started with honest intentions and a skilled team, most of the problems come out of the Crypto-Community.

[jorrr]

Tempus, the way you describe it, it's
Like a damned if you do, damned if you don't

Yes, related to "talking about it" without having a Release yet..

Situation.  You could be right and I hope you are,
which would mean that this project has not just been abandoned.
One thing I think about is , can you imagine investing
This much time and effort into a project and then just giving up?
It's much easier to imagine them taking a break from it than
just outright abandoning it...don't you agree?
The only way I see them abandoning it is if
they've painted themselves into a corner , unable
to create solutions. I would imagine they are frustrated, but more important
than that, motivated to see this thing take off
Because they'll be filthy stinkin rich and we'll
be riding their coattails to wealth

I often thought about the "Dev-Perspective" because I know it rudimentary myself. I'm making Songs, sometimes Hip-Hop-Beats and something like that. It's different, but there are similarities. It's much harder with time-pressure. It's much harder if money is involved (what I do is little money). It's very hard to do a good job if you think all the time: "It should be finished tomorrow." What I do is more like a Hobby. And if there is somebody waiting, its just one person. And a Song is more subjective. Even if it's not perfect the most don't hear little mistakes.

But Crypto-Devs:

1. There is a lot of time pressure, and if there is nothing to show, the price will reflect it.
2. There are many Investors waiting and asking
3. It's a lot money involved
4. And: It's working or not.

What I want to say with that comparison: I know pressure but I know it's nothing in comparison to developing a Crypto.
And I know, it can be important to focus on that what you do. It's not a question of time that it would be cost much time if they would show up once a day, looking at the reactions in the Thread or IRC, post something, check the price and all that. But if they would do it... there would be reactions on it. And in harder times the reactions are hard. The psychological effect is similar to mobbing. It needs a lot to face it everyday without getting damaged in your health.

And: The pressure is everytime in your mind. It's very hard to keep the focus on your work with all the pressure and the responsibility. And if you can't do something right you have to distance yourself... and focus. And I hope, that they do exactly that. I would do it. I think they made some mistakes, mostly in a communicative way. But they had to face very hard situations. It came all together: Bob dumped. And at that time, it was without fundamental reason. They failed the Audit and there were some disputes with Gnome. They broke with him. Maybe not good, but we can't know the whole story. There was the vacation at the same time. Not a good timing, but... Devs have a Life, too. There were the accusations about Insider-Trading. And yes, Alty said he sold some Cloak. But: If a Dev holds his own Coin he should be allowed to buy and sell. And he can't do it without Inside-Knowledge. Therefore it's always Insider-Trading. I did not understand this accusations. Because they do it all. Alty was just open about it. And, just to think about it: If a Dev would not hold his own Coin, what would we think about it? He has no trust in his own work? Should he do all the work without any profit from it?

What I want to say is: The situation was and is very complex and frustrating for all of us. But mostly it's about pressure. Even if I would have the skills to be a good Dev, I wouldn't do such a project. It's a Killer-Job. Satoshi did not have that pressure.

That would all make sense if alty was coding cloak, he's not. He's proj manager, he hired people to do the coding for him. So it's not like it would be taking too much time from dev'ing to give updates.

Yes, I know that he is not coding. But that doesn't change the situation that he can't do much right until there is something to release. He tried it. He said they are working hard many times etc. He also explained, that he want to prevent Pre-Hype und dump-on-release. I can't know if he is completely honest, but I know it makes sense. If he would explain everyday what they do, there would be extreme reactions on it. The one side would say he would and just want to hype, the other side would buy and getting impatient very fast and so on. Or.. some say, he should moderate the Thread, delete all the FUD. What would happen if he would do it? Immediately there would be accusations about censoring and new FUD and new accusations. He could delete as fulltime-job without any posivite result. He could discuss as fulltime-job... it wouldn't help. There are just two really relevant scenarios: Deliver or not deliver. Developing or giving up.

And... Alty doesn't code, but he feels the pressure. I would say he feels more pressure than the Devs.

Dasource doesn't and wouldn't know more than us, he's stated that multiple times on IRC, even gnome was kept in the dark.

I can't know what they know. But I know that Dascource said more than once that they are still at work.

As far as insider trading, Alty held on to the failed audit report for a few weeks as price went up, once the price was crashing and pressure from gnome, then he released the report and went afk (vacation).

I know. It was me who asked in the Channel if anybody would know who the Auditor was and it was Gnome answered. He started another channel. Alty showed up, too. They had a dispute about different "development-philosophies" and about Gnomes behavior and all that. I couldn't assess about right and wrong, but I saw some honesty on both sides.

I know also that Alty tried to held the failed Audit back. But I don't know if it was for weeks... I remember one week. But, doesn't matter. The point is: They tried to rush. They tried to solve it. I don't say it was smart how they managed all that. But the intention to rush doesn't come out of nothing. It's also pressure.  

 
Onemaket isn't going to be released anytime soon, x11joe was pulled from onemarket to help the main dev and that was uptil a few days into sept, after that joe was going to be too busy irl to work on cloak. It seems cecil/ring/etc has failed to work and alty is once again afk like posa v2. He can't give updates bc he can only report what is passed on from the main dev, the main dev isn't having success with posa v3/cecil/ring and isn't reporting. This is what happens when you have a dev that doesn't dev his own coin, go check out Neos, Drk, Xst, etc. Those are devs that give updates b/c they are coding/working on the coins themselves. I don't think alty is a scammer, he really wanted to make cloak successful, but MrRgnome said it best: <+MrRGnome> I think the main dev always knew it wasn't trustless and took alty for a ride.

Yes... maybe he is right, maybe he is wrong. I have much respect for Gnome and I would wish he would be still part of the team. It's a shame that they fell apart. But... the current situation is a fact. The pressure is a fact. That they did not start this project to scam anybody is a fact. And: That Alty hired the Devs says in my eyes: It wasn't profitable for him so far. He invested, not just as an Investor.

Btw: Neos is a great example for the dynamic I'm speaking of generally. Syntaks is a great Dev in every sense. I'm highly invested and I follow Neos very close and I'm convinced that it will be profitable for every Investor with some patience. But: They had to face some FUD and some pressure, too. Syntaks reaction was: He wanted to focus on coding instead discussing and moderating and he locked the Thread. The reaction was FUD and discussions on the IRC. Some got kicked (it was not Syntaks who kicked them) and than it was on Twitter. Syntaks is hard working and there is not one single reason to be concerned about the development. It all looks great. But nevertheless there were accusations and pressure and FUD since the beginning. There was also a threat per PM... It's just crazy. What I want to say is: It's nearly impossible to handle such a project without all this silly garbage, even if a Dev makes nothing (!) wrong.

More precise: If a project is started with honest intentions and a skilled team, most of the problems come out of the Crypto-Community.

So many text, i didn't read it. But i take it the conclusion is that cloak coin is dead?

[negamus]

So many text, i didn't read it. But i take it the conclusion is that cloak coin is dead?

For those tl:dr, conclusion, lol Jorr borrowed 16k from bank for obsolete scrypt miner and buying high selling low! Oh and Jorr selling all cloaks again tomorrow . . .  and again day after that.

[jorrr]

So many text, i didn't read it. But i take it the conclusion is that cloak coin is dead?

For those tl:dr, conclusion, lol Jorr borrowed 16k from bank for obsolete scrypt miner and buying high selling low! Oh and Jorr selling all cloaks again tomorrow . . .  and again day after that.

well at least i know when to dump and sell, can't say the same for you junky fan boys

I already paid 1.5K back of the 16K, i'm thinking to sell all my alts and put it in LTC now as the price is very low now.

I'm mining lot's of LTC and after block reward halving in 2015 i'll make all my money back+more

[Ltsknnr]

Jorrrr go file for bankruptcy already and leave it be. Honestly, I think at this point no one really cares what anyone else has to say on this coin beyond the devs and any real updates.

If nothing else, this coin has been dumped down to the lowest it's been since launch, who knows. Maybe there is some value in that as there are dozens of other last that have nothing to show yet keep being actively traded.

In crypto no one knows what's going to happen. No one owns anything, no one controls anything. It's a high risk gamble at best.

No one owes us anything and once you accept that, perhaps you'll feel just a tiny bit better about the situation.

If not, oh well. Too bad, so sad. Here's your rock, go kick it.

[luckydag]

main dev is not only one guy, they are four coders, as far as I know.

[lab rat hoax]

It's just all so mysterious, isn't this exciting ?
We should have some trippy theme music every time thedagger posts something

[BTCgraphics]

So many text, i didn't read it. But i take it the conclusion is that cloak coin is dead?

For those tl:dr, conclusion, lol Jorr borrowed 16k from bank for obsolete scrypt miner and buying high selling low! Oh and Jorr selling all cloaks again tomorrow . . .  and again day after that.

well at least i know when to dump and sell, can't say the same for you junky fan boys

I already paid 1.5K back of the 16K, i'm thinking to sell all my alts and put it in LTC now as the price is very low now.

I'm mining lot's of LTC and after block reward halving in 2015 i'll make all my money back+more

lmaoo poor guy

[Dr.GoldfieldHwang]

It's just all so mysterious, isn't this exciting ?
We should have some trippy theme music every time thedagger posts something

I lol'd

[starblocks]

Tck, tck tck