Is anyone following the Israel & Palestine Situation.

[Alphi]

calling someone anti-Semitic just because they don't agree with you would be like Obama calling people racist because they didn't vote for him.

so I guess all those people (including Jews) who voted republican must be racist.   <-- Sarcasm

the thing that makes the use of the anti-semitism argument even more absurd is that Arabic and Aramaic are also Semitic languages.

so Jews who disagree with Isreal are called self hating Jews... and Arabic speakers who disagree with Isreal are also self hating in a perverse kind of way.

[1714659746]

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[1714659746]

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[Alphi]

Most western world support Israel not Palestine, or at least politically that is and that's why the people is angry and protesting, The west world values human lives?

you are right it is all about politics and trade.

the US has its reasons for supporting Isreal.. and the rest of the western governments tag along simply because they want to maintain favorable trade conditions with the US.

the majority in my country doesn't really give a rats ass about Isreal (or Palestine if we are going to be brutally honest) but because US is Isreal's ally and we are allied with the US.. our politicians do not speak out for fear of upsetting the apple cart.

it is also true that the Jewish Pro Isreal lobby are extremely effective at propaganda through their control of media etc so if any politician dares to speak out against Israel their words can easily be manipulated and their career can easily be trashed.

you can see the apparent contradiction in some countries foreign policy when their UN ambassadors vote Against Isreal at the UN but their government does not criticize Isreal publicly on TV.
a lot of countries also abstain at the UN because trade and their domestic economies are more important than human rights in some far away land.

that's just how the system works... even if the people don't like it.. that's why we have to agitate for change via civil disobedience and peaceful protest.

Politicians don't lead, they follow... its only when they see mass protests do they make any kind of public statement.

if I was going to be completely honest.. I would say that the UK seems to be one of the most progressive and balanced societies regarding this issue.. both in terms of their public (protesters, media etc) and their politicians.

certainly more progressive than my country.

[practicaldreamer]

if I was going to be completely honest.. I would say that the UK seems to be one of the most progressive and balanced societies regarding this issue.. both in terms of their public (protesters, media etc) and their politicians.

Greg Philo, of Glasgow University's "Glasgow Media Group", would disagree with you there - and they meticulously study media representations of events for a living.

[newflesh]

Israel-Gaza conflict: Baby girl born by caesarean after mother is killed in air strike

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-baby-girl-born-by-caesarean-after-mother-is-killed-in-air-strike-9634850.html

"A premature baby girl whose mother died in an air strike is fighting for her life after being delivered by medics in Gaza via a caesarean section.

Shaymaa Hussein al Sheikh Ali was heavily pregnant when an Israeli air strike hit the roof of her family home in Deir al-Balah on Thursday.

Surgeons delivered her baby daughter, who has also been named Shaymaa, at a Gaza hospital on Monday after doctors found the infant still had a heartbeat.

A doctor at the hospital where the infant is being treated told Reuters: “The mother and father were killed. The pregnant mother was brought here and when we checked the foetus it was alive, so the doctors did fast surgery and brought the baby out breathing".

[Alphi]

if I was going to be completely honest.. I would say that the UK seems to be one of the most progressive and balanced societies regarding this issue.. both in terms of their public (protesters, media etc) and their politicians.

Greg Philo, of Glasgow University's "Glasgow Media Group", would disagree with you there - and they meticulously study media representations of events for a living.

I wasn't talking about the news coverage specifically, I was talking about how the people are protesting and what the politicians are saying.
though I did say media I meant all forms, news, written, radio, social media and it was only my limited observation, so I am more than happy to defer to the experts on this....
but even if the news media is biased, which it invariably is, it seems to me like the BBC are doing a better job of covering the news in the west than most other agencies.
(I'm only making that comment based on the news coverage I am seeing in English)

clearly though because of their political leanings, both al jazeera and Russia Today are covering the issue of the Isreal Palestine conflict much deeper than the west because they have more to gain from airing Israels dirty laundry.

I still haven't heard anyone on TV or radio say that the kidnapping or killing of 3 Jewish settler kids was not done by Hamas which some news articles are quoting the IDF as saying.

if this is the case then Netanyahoo has a lot of Jewish and Palestinian blood on his hands for both causing the war and stoking the fires of hatred between the two peoples.

honestly I don't know why so many people believe the BS that politicians say.. everybody knows that a politician will say and do anything to get elected. It is the nature of politics, to lie deceive and twist facts to benefit their agenda. imo Netanyahoo is more dangerous than George W bush for both Isreal and the US.

[practicaldreamer]

if I was going to be completely honest.. I would say that the UK seems to be one of the most progressive and balanced societies regarding this issue.. both in terms of their public (protesters, media etc) and their politicians.

Greg Philo, of Glasgow University's "Glasgow Media Group", would disagree with you there - and they meticulously study media representations of events for a living.

I wasn't talking about the news coverage I was talking about how the people are protesting and what the politicians are saying.
though I did say media I meant all forms, news, written, radio, social and it was only my observation...
but even if the news media is biased, which it invariably is, it seems to me like the BBC are doing a better job of covering the news in the west than most other agencies.
(I'm only making that comment based on the news coverage I am seeing in English)

clearly though because of their political leanings, both al jazeera and Russia Today are covering the issue of the Isreal Palestine conflict much deeper than the west because they have more to gain from airing Israels dirty laundry.

I still haven't heard anyone on TV or radio say that the kidnapping or killing of 3 Jewish settler kids was not done by Hamas which some news articles are quoting the IDF as saying.

if this is the case then Netanyahoo has a lot of Jewish and Palestinian blood on his hands for both causing the war and stoking the fires of hatred between the two peoples.

honestly I don't know why so many people believe the BS that politicians say.. everybody knows that a politician will say and do anything to get elected. It is the nature of politics, to lie deceive and twist facts to benefit their agenda. imo Netanyahoo is more dangerous than George W bush for both Isreal and the US.

Hey, we are largely in agreement Alphi, so I'm not going to argue over the finer points of the BBC's coverage.

All I will say (in addition to urging people that are in any doubt to read the link to the Guardian article on Greg Philo's take on the medias coverage of the conflict) is that it seems to me that what the BBC are doing, ever so subtly, and with a very careful gloss of impartiality, is to present the conflict as if its six of one and a half dozen of the other. Which it clearly isn't - and in presenting it as such they are doing the Israeli's a massive service - and the Palestinians no service at all. They are, therefore, presenting propaganda and lies - even though it might not be immediately recognisable as such ( they aren't that stupid   )

   The airtime yesterday spent on the conflict spent as much time on the 10 Israeli soldiers deaths as it did on the 60 to 100 Palestinian civilian deaths - as if they were somehow congruous. Which they clearly aren't.
    And the BBC's narrative is one of Israel vs. Hamas.   Why is this so ? Why not, for e.g., Israel vs Palestine ? This would seem most rational. Or why is the discourse not framed as the people of Palestine vs. the Israeli Defence Force ?

    If we are comparing the BBC's coverage to that of the networks in the US then I expect the BBC will come out looking good - but they are a very long way from being impartial in this matter.

[Alphi]

   If we are comparing the BBC's coverage to that of the networks in the US then I expect the BBC will come out looking good - but they are a very long way from being impartial in this matter.

sure you aren't going to get impartiality from just one source I agree.
 RT love sticking things up the nose of the US every chance they get and the Russians have their own problems with Islamic militants so on this particular issue RT (to me atleast) seem to be covering the issues with more depth and balance. I'm not sure who watches RT though except for Bitcoiners lol.

Why is this so ? Why not, for e.g., Israel vs Palestine ?

the news media is only covering the issue Isreal Vs Hamas because the current conflict is really only Isreal vs Hamas. The west bank is largely not involved in any of the violence apart from a few stones being thrown and the Palestinians in Jordan and Isreal are also not involved for the most part.

but yes the real issue is Israels brutal 50 year occupation of Palestine. so the Chapter is Isreal v Hamas.. but the book is called Isreal / Palestine.
and I do take the point you appear to be alluding to that the narrative is being framed as Isreal vs Terrorism.

[Chef Ramsay]

Tunnels Lead Right to the Heart of Israeli Fear

NEAR THE ISRAEL-GAZA BORDER — The curved concrete top of the tunnel grazes the dark-brown buzz cut of Lt. Col. Oshik Azulai, putting it 5 feet and 7 inches above the sand floor. The walls are about 30 inches apart — wide enough for two people to squeeze past each other, unless both are in body armor. It is cool in the tunnel, 46 feet under, and dark, of course. Cellphones do not work.

Colonel Azulai, deputy commander of the Israeli military’s Southern Gaza Division, said this tunnel stretched eight-tenths of a mile into Israel, next to a field filled with watermelon, ripe but unpicked because of the war. It ended about 600 yards from Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha, a rural enclave of 325, but was unfinished: Unlike the tunnels used to infiltrate Israel from Gaza in recent days, this one still had electric lines along the wall and carriage tracks used to ferry out dirt.

Destroying such tunnels was the stated goal of Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza, which began July 17. But 11 days into the mission, and after Israeli officials say they have found 31 tunnels and destroyed 15, Palestinian militants again penetrated underground into Israel on Monday evening and confronted soldiers in a staging area. Multiple soldiers were killed, a senior military official said, as was at least one of the men from Gaza.

“We will not complete the operation without neutralizing the tunnels, the sole purpose of which is the destruction of our civilians and the killing of our children,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel declared in a televised address afterward. “It cannot be that the citizens of the state of Israel will live under the deadly threats of missiles and infiltration through tunnels — death from above and death from below.”

More+video...http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/world/middleeast/tunnels-lead-right-to-heart-of-israeli-fear.html?_r=1

[Chef Ramsay]

US fuming over Israeli criticism of Kerry

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration pushed back strongly Monday at a torrent of Israeli criticism over Secretary of State John Kerry's latest bid to secure a cease-fire with Hamas, accusing some in Israel of launching a "misinformation campaign" against the top American diplomat.

"It's simply not the way partners and allies treat each other," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said.

Her comments were echoed by the White House, where National Security Adviser Susan Rice said the U.S. was "dismayed" by mischaracterizations of Kerry's efforts. Israeli media reports have cast Kerry as seeking a cease-fire that is more favorable to Hamas and being dismissive of key Israeli concerns.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-fuming-over-israeli-criticism-kerry-154747943--politics.html

[Alphi]

Tunnels Lead Right to the Heart of Israeli Fear

NEAR THE ISRAEL-GAZA BORDER — The curved concrete top of the tunnel grazes the dark-brown buzz cut of Lt. Col. Oshik Azulai, putting it 5 feet and 7 inches above the sand floor. The walls are about 30 inches apart — wide enough for two people to squeeze past each other, unless both are in body armor. It is cool in the tunnel, 46 feet under, and dark, of course. Cellphones do not work.

Colonel Azulai, deputy commander of the Israeli military’s Southern Gaza Division, said this tunnel stretched eight-tenths of a mile into Israel, next to a field filled with watermelon, ripe but unpicked because of the war. It ended about 600 yards from Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha, a rural enclave of 325, but was unfinished: Unlike the tunnels used to infiltrate Israel from Gaza in recent days, this one still had electric lines along the wall and carriage tracks used to ferry out dirt.

Destroying such tunnels was the stated goal of Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza, which began July 17. But 11 days into the mission, and after Israeli officials say they have found 31 tunnels and destroyed 15, Palestinian militants again penetrated underground into Israel on Monday evening and confronted soldiers in a staging area. Multiple soldiers were killed, a senior military official said, as was at least one of the men from Gaza.

“We will not complete the operation without neutralizing the tunnels, the sole purpose of which is the destruction of our civilians and the killing of our children,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel declared in a televised address afterward. “It cannot be that the citizens of the state of Israel will live under the deadly threats of missiles and infiltration through tunnels — death from above and death from below.”

More+video...http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/world/middleeast/tunnels-lead-right-to-heart-of-israeli-fear.html?_r=1

the Isrealis should learn something from the German concentration camps back in WW2
as long as you keep people locked behind walls and barbed wire.. they will spend all their time trying to tunnel out.

all this proves is that if people want to get around a wall they will and until you deal with the issues and deal with the root causes, this problem will continue.

could you imagine if the people of the west bank started digging tunnels?
every single settlement in the west bank and even cities like Jerusalem would be threatened.
its time to admit that netanyahoo and his government, far from making Israelis safe, has only made the problem worse by continually paying people to go and live on stolen land in the west bank where they are easily exposed to danger and continually stoking the fires of hatred by the excessive use of rhetoric.

the only way for this madness to end is for Palestinians to be given equal rights and an equal say in how the land is governed. You cannot suppress indefinitely the human desire to be free. Everyone who has ever tried it in the entire history of humanity has ultimately failed.

Emancipation is an inalienable right.
if the shoe were on the other foot and Palestinians were oppressing Jews. the outcome would be exactly the same.

in fact people forget that the Jews were building tunnels and bombing government buildings back when the British empire was in control of the land.

[DodoB]

Tunnels Lead Right to the Heart of Israeli Fear

NEAR THE ISRAEL-GAZA BORDER — The curved concrete top of the tunnel grazes the dark-brown buzz cut of Lt. Col. Oshik Azulai, putting it 5 feet and 7 inches above the sand floor. The walls are about 30 inches apart — wide enough for two people to squeeze past each other, unless both are in body armor. It is cool in the tunnel, 46 feet under, and dark, of course. Cellphones do not work.

Colonel Azulai, deputy commander of the Israeli military’s Southern Gaza Division, said this tunnel stretched eight-tenths of a mile into Israel, next to a field filled with watermelon, ripe but unpicked because of the war. It ended about 600 yards from Kibbutz Ein Hashlosha, a rural enclave of 325, but was unfinished: Unlike the tunnels used to infiltrate Israel from Gaza in recent days, this one still had electric lines along the wall and carriage tracks used to ferry out dirt.

Destroying such tunnels was the stated goal of Israel’s ground invasion of Gaza, which began July 17. But 11 days into the mission, and after Israeli officials say they have found 31 tunnels and destroyed 15, Palestinian militants again penetrated underground into Israel on Monday evening and confronted soldiers in a staging area. Multiple soldiers were killed, a senior military official said, as was at least one of the men from Gaza.

“We will not complete the operation without neutralizing the tunnels, the sole purpose of which is the destruction of our civilians and the killing of our children,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel declared in a televised address afterward. “It cannot be that the citizens of the state of Israel will live under the deadly threats of missiles and infiltration through tunnels — death from above and death from below.”

More+video...http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/world/middleeast/tunnels-lead-right-to-heart-of-israeli-fear.html?_r=1

the Isrealis should learn something from the German concentration camps back in WW2
as long as you keep people locked behind walls and barbed wire.. they will spend all their time trying to tunnel out.

all this proves is that if people want to get around a wall they will and until you deal with the issues and deal with the root causes, this problem will continue.

could you imagine if the people of the west bank started digging tunnels?
every single settlement in the west bank and even cities like Jerusalem would be threatened.
its time to admit that netanyahoo and his government, far from making Israelis safe, has only made the problem worse by continually paying people to go and live on stolen land in the west bank where they are easily exposed to danger and continually stoking the fires of hatred by the excessive use of rhetoric.

the only way for this madness to end is for Palestinians to be given equal rights and an equal say in how the land is governed. You cannot suppress indefinitely the human desire to be free. Everyone who has ever tried it in the entire history of humanity has ultimately failed.

Emancipation is an inalienable right.
if the shoe were on the other foot and Palestinians were oppressing Jews. the outcome would be exactly the same.

in fact people forget that the Jews were building tunnels and bombing government buildings back when the British empire was in control of the land.

the Isrealis should learn something from the German concentration camps back in WW2
as long as you keep people locked behind walls and barbed wire.. they will spend all their time trying to tunnel out.

Yea.. but building a tunnel to Israel is like trying to build a tunnel from Auschwitz to Berlin.. Plus,the tunnels are used by Hamas to send terrorists to infiltrate Israel and kill anything you see..
http://online.wsj.com/articles/gaza-residents-see-growing-toll-in-israel-fight-1405758914

the only way for this madness to end is for Palestinians to be given equal rights and an equal say in how the land is governed. You cannot suppress indefinitely the human desire to be free. Everyone who has ever tried it in the entire history of humanity has ultimately failed.

A one sided action. do you realy think the Palestininans and Jews will turn into care bears and suddenly forget anything and co exist happily? ill remind you Hamas' motto is to liberate all occupied lands.. and by occupied they mean all of Israel..

[u9y42]

the only way for this madness to end is for Palestinians to be given equal rights and an equal say in how the land is governed. You cannot suppress indefinitely the human desire to be free. Everyone who has ever tried it in the entire history of humanity has ultimately failed.

A one sided action. do you realy think the Palestininans and Jews will turn into care bears and suddenly forget anything and co exist happily? ill remind you Hamas' motto is to liberate all occupied lands.. and by occupied they mean all of Israel..

Hamas have officially stated on several occasions they will follow the will of the Palestinian people in that regard: that is, they will accept the will of the people if they choose to recognize Israel - and in truth, they have already gone even further, by accepting the conditions the Quartet had imposed on them, when they formed the union government earlier this year.

Now, will that magically undo half a century of occupation? No, but you've got to start somewhere.

[TheIrishman]

Israel is finding it harder to deny targeting Gaza infrastructure

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/israel-gaza-infrastructure-blackouts-idf-civilian

<< With blackouts, food shortages and sewage in the streets, observers say the IDF either targets civilians or has terrible aim. >>

[u9y42]

[...] << With blackouts, food shortages and sewage in the streets, observers say the IDF either targets civilians or has terrible aim. >>

Well, with close to 80% civilian casualties, over 1200 dead and many thousands injured, I find it hard to find any other explanation: either they are incompetent, which seems unlikely, or they don't care/deliberately target civilians and civilian infrastructure when they think they can get away with it (which given US support, would be most of the time).

[Alphi]

Yea.. but building a tunnel to Israel is like trying to build a tunnel from Auschwitz to Berlin.. Plus,the tunnels are used by Hamas to send terrorists to infiltrate Israel and kill anything you see..
http://online.wsj.com/articles/gaza-residents-see-growing-toll-in-israel-fight-1405758914

of course there is no doubt that the tunnels into Gaza are being used to carry out strikes in Isreal.
but do you know why they are tunneling into isreal?....

A) they are surrounded by Isreal.
and B) they are trying to get their land back.

there are tunnels going into Egypt too but are Hamas going into Egypt to carry out attacks?

A one sided action. do you realy think the Palestininans and Jews will turn into care bears and suddenly forget anything and co exist happily? ill remind you Hamas' motto is to liberate all occupied lands.. and by occupied they mean all of Israel..

nobody said it would be easy.. and in fact both Islamic extremists and the Zionists have to lose power for it to happen.
but really it is the only way to have lasting peace. the only alternative is everlasting turmoil.

did anyone think that Jews would ever go back to Germany after what happened during the holocaust?
its been some time but sure there are Jews moving back to Germany.

the point is reconciliation can happen, it does happen and it must happen.

there just simply is no way that Isreal will pull out of the west bank when there are nearly 400,000 Jews living there now.
the successive Isreali government settlement policies have destroyed any possibility of a real two state solution.

[DodoB]

the only way for this madness to end is for Palestinians to be given equal rights and an equal say in how the land is governed. You cannot suppress indefinitely the human desire to be free. Everyone who has ever tried it in the entire history of humanity has ultimately failed.

A one sided action. do you realy think the Palestininans and Jews will turn into care bears and suddenly forget anything and co exist happily? ill remind you Hamas' motto is to liberate all occupied lands.. and by occupied they mean all of Israel..

Hamas have officially stated on several occasions they will follow the will of the Palestinian people in that regard: that is, they will accept the will of the people if they choose to recognize Israel - and in truth, they have already gone even further, by accepting the conditions the Quartet had imposed on them, when they formed the union government earlier this year.

"Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal have also stated repeatedly that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,"[11] and that "we shall not relinquish the Islamic waqf on the land of Palestine, and Jerusalem shall not be divided into Western and Eastern Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a single united [city], and Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south."[12][13]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

De facto there is no unity government,there is still Hamas,Islamic Jihad,Fatah and many other small groups. If there was a unity government,Israel would bomb the West Bank as well in response for the rockets,nobody wants that to happen.

Now, will that magically undo half a century of occupation? No, but you've got to start somewhere.

Occupation.. and rocket attacks,suicide bombing,shootings,etc,the Israelis won't forget that easily.

[DodoB]

Yea.. but building a tunnel to Israel is like trying to build a tunnel from Auschwitz to Berlin.. Plus,the tunnels are used by Hamas to send terrorists to infiltrate Israel and kill anything you see..
http://online.wsj.com/articles/gaza-residents-see-growing-toll-in-israel-fight-1405758914

of course there is no doubt that the tunnels into Gaza are being used to carry out strikes in Isreal.
but do you know why they are tunneling into isreal?....

A) they are surrounded by Isreal.
and B) they are trying to get their land back.

there are tunnels going into Egypt too but are Hamas going into Egypt to carry out attacks?

A)and Egypt.
B) Did you mean Jewish land? Gaza borders Israel proper,which is legal Israeli land,not the West Bank
You realy think 1-10 fighters can take out all of Israel? lol. small atacks like these dont get your land back,they make things even worser.

there just simply is no way that Isreal will pull out of the west bank when there are nearly 400,000 Jews living there now.
the successive Isreali government settlement policies have destroyed any possibility of a real two state solution.

Israel can annex parts of the West Bank with Jewish majority,giving the Arabs who live there Israeli citizenship,the rest goes to Palestine.

[u9y42]

Hamas have officially stated on several occasions they will follow the will of the Palestinian people in that regard: that is, they will accept the will of the people if they choose to recognize Israel - and in truth, they have already gone even further, by accepting the conditions the Quartet had imposed on them, when they formed the union government earlier this year.

"Ismail Haniyah and Khaled Meshaal have also stated repeatedly that "Palestine – from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, from its north to its south – is our land, our right, and our homeland. There will be no relinquishing or forsaking even an inch or small part of it,"[11] and that "we shall not relinquish the Islamic waqf on the land of Palestine, and Jerusalem shall not be divided into Western and Eastern Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a single united [city], and Palestine stretches from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River, and from Naqoura [Rosh Ha-Niqra] to Umm Al-Rashrash [Eilat] in the south."[12][13]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

De facto there is no unity government,there is still Hamas,Islamic Jihad,Fatah and many other small groups. If there was a unity government,Israel would bomb the West Bank as well in response for the rockets,nobody wants that to happen.

The charter doesn't dictate politics, or what solutions they might pursue. As I stated, they have agreed to all the terms the Quartet had imposed on them, and officially declared they would follow the will of the Palestinian people in that regard - what part of that did you not understand? Hell, even the link you provided goes on to state:

Relevance of the Charter in the 21st century:

Dr. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Ismail Haniyeh (the senior political leader of Hamas) claimed that Hamas has changed its views with time[how?] since the charter was issued in 1988.[17] In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."[6]

In 2006, Hamas proposed government programme, which stated that "the question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people."[18][19] However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view it as a ploy to hide its true agenda, "but it is equally true that the “new” discourse of diluted religious content—to say nothing of the movement’s increasing pragmatism and flexibility in the political domain—reflects genuine and cumulative changes within Hamas."

Now, will that magically undo half a century of occupation? No, but you've got to start somewhere.

Occupation.. and rocket attacks,suicide bombing,shootings,etc,the Israelis won't forget that easily.

Neither will the Palestinians forget being forced to live in conditions just slightly above those consistent with an humanitarian crisis, purposefully imposed upon them by Israel, as leaked official documents state. We can go on blaming one side or the other, but the truth is, if we want the situation to improve, the occupation must end.

[Alphi]

Now, will that magically undo half a century of occupation? No, but you've got to start somewhere.

Occupation.. and rocket attacks,suicide bombing,shootings,etc,the Israelis won't forget that easily.

Irgun is Israel's version of Hamas al qassam brigade:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

what?? jewish terrorists? those noble people could never do such a thing...  

its not like either side can claim the moral high ground here.


so the Jews fought off British occupation with militants and terrorists... and now the Palestinians are doing the same thing to their occupiers...

hmm I'm starting to see a pattern here...

[Alphi]

a good bbc doco on the birth if isreal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCC3BEwdS0M

interesting it was made 6 years ago and pretty much nothing has changed except the problems have gotten worse.