Bitcoin Forum
December 06, 2022, 02:55:59 PM *
News: Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 1230 1231 1232 1233 1234 1235 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 1241 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 1253 [1254] 1255 1256 1257 1258 1259 1260 1261 1262 1263 1264 1265 1266 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 ... 2188 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3308086 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 1+ user deleted.)
medusa13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 453
Merit: 500

hello world


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 06:03:04 PM
 #25061

..
I can't get butthurt I have nothing but dust. I'm pissed that those loans protect shorters and hurt the ecosystem.

please explain how they hurt the ecosystem  in your view Huh

a healthy lending market does nothing but support the ecosystem, since it enables a variety if financial strategies and tools (e.g. hedging) for all market participants.

you seem confused really. protecting shorters? we make shorting possible in the first place. if they get rekt by doing so is not my decision.



XMR Monero
No Gods or Kings. Only Bitcoin
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1670338559
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1670338559

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1670338559
Reply with quote  #2

1670338559
Report to moderator
1670338559
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1670338559

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1670338559
Reply with quote  #2

1670338559
Report to moderator
1670338559
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1670338559

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1670338559
Reply with quote  #2

1670338559
Report to moderator
Hueristic
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3290
Merit: 3713


Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 06:34:42 PM
 #25062

..
I can't get butthurt I have nothing but dust. I'm pissed that those loans protect shorters and hurt the ecosystem.

please explain how they hurt the ecosystem  in your view Huh

a healthy lending market does nothing but support the ecosystem, since it enables a variety if financial strategies and tools (e.g. hedging) for all market participants.

you seem confused really. protecting shorters? we make shorting possible in the first place. if they get rekt by doing so is not my decision.




It can be used to dump which shakes confidence and weak hands follow that trend, it hurts the coin. Most people don't check to see whats being lent when they are watching a dump and panicking. I understand your only motive is profit so whatever. If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
TheKoziTwo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047



View Profile
November 15, 2016, 06:45:27 PM
 #25063

..
I can't get butthurt I have nothing but dust. I'm pissed that those loans protect shorters and hurt the ecosystem.

please explain how they hurt the ecosystem  in your view Huh

a healthy lending market does nothing but support the ecosystem, since it enables a variety if financial strategies and tools (e.g. hedging) for all market participants.

you seem confused really. protecting shorters? we make shorting possible in the first place. if they get rekt by doing so is not my decision.



+1

There's this common misconception about people selling (or worse: shorting) that they are hurting the coin. You'll notice that people who are bearish tend to get more hate directed towards them. It makes perfect sense, because if you hold and the price is going down it hurts. And who's causing the price to go down? Well obviously sellers/shorters. Shorters becomes an enemy to blame for ones own losses, an outlet for all the frustration that builds up during a long drawn out and bloody beartrend.

While it's easy to fall victim to this sort of thinking I believe this view is narrow minded and here's why:
Without opposing forces the price may go higher, but it will be on low volume and the crashes will be much deeper. In a sense the price becomes more artificial the less volume is involved and the less liquidity is available. Sellers/shorters provide a very important function in the market, that is: liquidity which prevents the price from going too high, and also liqudity that prevents the price from going too low (shorters must close their short, traders who sell buy back). These opposing forces work beautifully to stabilize a market and avoid even higher and lower spikes that we would have had without them. The more opposing forces in a market the more stable it becomes. Stability is GOOD for the coin, not bad.

Can we think of any example where there are no sellers and shorters? Yes. Zcash. There was almost zero supply as it launched and no way to properly short, and the consequence of that was a launching price that went beyond 2 million USD. The ATH has been set and we'll never see prices even remotely close. If there had been sufficient amount of sellers or shorters, this would not have happened, the price would have reflected reality better. I don't think it's heatlhy for any coin to have such raises like we've seen in zcash. And as we've just witnessed, without sellers/shorters, that's what you're gonna get.

Hueristic
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3290
Merit: 3713


Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 06:48:50 PM
 #25064

..
I can't get butthurt I have nothing but dust. I'm pissed that those loans protect shorters and hurt the ecosystem.

please explain how they hurt the ecosystem  in your view Huh

a healthy lending market does nothing but support the ecosystem, since it enables a variety if financial strategies and tools (e.g. hedging) for all market participants.

you seem confused really. protecting shorters? we make shorting possible in the first place. if they get rekt by doing so is not my decision.



+1

There's this common misconception about people selling (or worse: shorting) that they are hurting the coin. You'll notice that people who are bearish tend to get more hate directed towards them. It makes perfect sense, because if you hold and the price is going down it hurts. And who's causing the price to go down? Well obviously sellers/shorters. Shorters becomes an enemy to blame for ones own losses, an outlet for all the frustration that builds up during a long drawn out and bloody beartrend.

While it's easy to fall victim to this sort of thinking I believe this view is narrow minded and here's why:
Without opposing forces the price may go higher, but it will be on low volume and the crashes will be much deeper. In a sense the price becomes more artificial the less volume is involved and the less liquidity is available. Sellers/shorters provide a very important function in the market, that is: liquidity which prevents the price from going too high, and also liqudity that prevents the price from going too low (shorters must close their short, traders who sell buy back). These opposing forces work beautifully to stabilize a market and avoid even higher and lower spikes that we would have had without them. The more opposing forces in a market the more stable it becomes. Stability is GOOD for the coin, not bad.

Can we think of any example where there are no sellers and shorters? Yes. Zcash. There was almost zero supply as it launched and no way to properly short, and the consequence of that was a launching price that went beyond 2 million USD. The ATH has been set and we'll never see prices even remotely close. If there had been sufficient amount of sellers or shorters, this would not have happened, the price would have reflected reality better. I don't think it's heatlhy for any coin to have such raises like we've seen in zcash. And as we've just witnessed, without sellers/shorters, that's what you're gonna get.


I added this while you were posting.

Quote
If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
TheKoziTwo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1552
Merit: 1047



View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:01:39 PM
 #25065

I added this while you were posting.

Quote
If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.
While I encourage that as well, especially putting some coins up for sale at bitsquare the decentralized exchange, I don't think there's really any kind of liqudity that is better than the other. They serve different functions, and both are important. In fact, a shorter HAS to buy back, a seller doesn't have to buy back. With a short you are thus guaranteed the liquidity both ways.

phoenix rises
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 69
Merit: 10


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:03:14 PM
 #25066

@ TheKoziTwo - great explanation of why the ability to short is essential to price discovery  Smiley

In other news, this should be fun to watch ...

https://coin.dance/blocks

ViaBTC up from 7.5% to 10.43% and Bitcoin.com up from 2.5% to 4.86% in last 24 hours. That's >15% explicity against Segwit and for a hard fork before signalling even begins ...

Adaptive blocksizes anyone ??  Grin
Hueristic
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3290
Merit: 3713


Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:17:34 PM
 #25067

I added this while you were posting.

Quote
If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.
While I encourage that as well, especially putting some coins up for sale at bitsquare the decentralized exchange, I don't think there's really any kind of liqudity that is better than the other. They serve different functions, and both are important. In fact, a shorter HAS to buy back, a seller doesn't have to buy back. With a short you are thus guaranteed the liquidity both ways.

I think bitsquare needs to change it's name, it's to easily confused with bifinex. To get on something like Kraken or Coinbase we need a more diversified trading eco sytem then just polo and the droppings on Bittrex. If I had the bankroll I'd be doing that, as I think that will help this coin grow much faster than a GUI or aNY OF THE OTHER additions on the roadmap sans mutlisig. Damn laptop, always hitting caps lock instead of "a". Smiley

Not to mention anyone interested in increasing the worth of their coins should be doing everything they can to get on Large USD conversion exchanges rather than making peanuts lending that help suppress the price. I mean really how long do you whales need to accumulate, how rich do you have to get before you consider enough is enough and open this project up. We are not idiots here and sometimes it seems the whales treat us as such because we are not in their category.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
TrueCryptonaire
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:21:06 PM
 #25068

I added this while you were posting.

Quote
If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.
While I encourage that as well, especially putting some coins up for sale at bitsquare the decentralized exchange, I don't think there's really any kind of liqudity that is better than the other. They serve different functions, and both are important. In fact, a shorter HAS to buy back, a seller doesn't have to buy back. With a short you are thus guaranteed the liquidity both ways.

It doesn't make much difference if the seller is directly person A or person B who sells the coin's of A and is obligated to rebuy the initial amount + interests.
medusa13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 453
Merit: 500

hello world


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
 #25069

It can be used to dump which shakes confidence and weak hands follow that trend, it hurts the coin. Most people don't check to see whats being lent when they are watching a dump and panicking. I understand your only motive is profit so whatever. If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.

its you who assumes this is the only market im providing liquidity and im not running "some trading bots", not me saying it.

its those bots you recommend who extract money from markets by the way, not me.

also my motive is not profit, but reasonable liquidity and price stability. if you cant see how they are related to each other besides being registered on this forum for years, me explaining it probably wont help either.


besides that, you say you only hold dust ?i clearly dont. what are you doing to help the ecosystem besides attacking me? the millions of $$ trading volume each day and the newly atracted daytraders may leave the impression we are doing a pretty good job, dont you think ?


XMR Monero
phoenix rises
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 69
Merit: 10


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:31:20 PM
Last edit: November 15, 2016, 07:54:22 PM by phoenix rises
 #25070

I added this while you were posting.

Quote
If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.
While I encourage that as well, especially putting some coins up for sale at bitsquare the decentralized exchange, I don't think there's really any kind of liqudity that is better than the other. They serve different functions, and both are important. In fact, a shorter HAS to buy back, a seller doesn't have to buy back. With a short you are thus guaranteed the liquidity both ways.

It doesn't make much difference if the seller is directly person A or person B who sells the coin's of A and is obligated to rebuy the initial amount + interests.

@ TC ...  I disagree, for the reasons you underlined (and I just bolded Smiley)  ... B has to buy back to repay A at some point, creating buying pressure somewhere down the line. A, by lending out his coins to B to short is implicitly showing no desire to sell at that price. If A were to sell, they may or may not buy back in. The immediate effect is the more or less the same, but the longer term effects have the potential to be significantly different.
pa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 527
Merit: 501


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 07:51:30 PM
 #25071

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.
smoothie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2352
Merit: 1211


KIZEKRA COMICS & LEALANA Silver Monero


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
 #25072

..
I can't get butthurt I have nothing but dust. I'm pissed that those loans protect shorters and hurt the ecosystem.

please explain how they hurt the ecosystem  in your view Huh

a healthy lending market does nothing but support the ecosystem, since it enables a variety if financial strategies and tools (e.g. hedging) for all market participants.

you seem confused really. protecting shorters? we make shorting possible in the first place. if they get rekt by doing so is not my decision.




It can be used to dump which shakes confidence and weak hands follow that trend, it hurts the coin. Most people don't check to see whats being lent when they are watching a dump and panicking. I understand your only motive is profit so whatever. If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.

You have to look at it from both sides.

Shorters are also in a sense providing liquidity to buyers.

Allowing more participants is a good thing even if it goes against your bias in the markets.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.                  History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
TrueCryptonaire
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 15, 2016, 08:31:13 PM
 #25073

I added this while you were posting.

Quote
If you really wanted to help liquidity you wold put those coins on other exchanges and set up some trading bots.
While I encourage that as well, especially putting some coins up for sale at bitsquare the decentralized exchange, I don't think there's really any kind of liqudity that is better than the other. They serve different functions, and both are important. In fact, a shorter HAS to buy back, a seller doesn't have to buy back. With a short you are thus guaranteed the liquidity both ways.

It doesn't make much difference if the seller is directly person A or person B who sells the coin's of A and is obligated to rebuy the initial amount + interests.

@ TC ...  I disagree, for the reasons you underlined (and I just bolded Smiley)  ... B has to buy back to repay A at some point, creating buying pressure somewhere down the line. A, by lending out his coins to B to short is implicitly showing no desire to sell at that price. If A were to sell, they may or may not buy back in. The immediate effect is the more or less the same, but the longer term effects have the potential to be significantly different.

I think we agree here.

Indeed it is more alarming if A just dumps the coins because he may not want to buy back anymore, not even at lower price.
Therefore, the shorters might play important role in the price appreciation especially if the interest rates are high (more than the rate of inflation).
kurious
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1618



View Profile
November 15, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
 #25074

..
I can't get butthurt I have nothing but dust. I'm pissed that those loans protect shorters and hurt the ecosystem.

please explain how they hurt the ecosystem  in your view Huh

a healthy lending market does nothing but support the ecosystem, since it enables a variety if financial strategies and tools (e.g. hedging) for all market participants.

you seem confused really. protecting shorters? we make shorting possible in the first place. if they get rekt by doing so is not my decision.



+1

There's this common misconception about people selling (or worse: shorting) that they are hurting the coin. You'll notice that people who are bearish tend to get more hate directed towards them. It makes perfect sense, because if you hold and the price is going down it hurts. And who's causing the price to go down? Well obviously sellers/shorters. Shorters becomes an enemy to blame for ones own losses, an outlet for all the frustration that builds up during a long drawn out and bloody beartrend.

While it's easy to fall victim to this sort of thinking I believe this view is narrow minded and here's why:
Without opposing forces the price may go higher, but it will be on low volume and the crashes will be much deeper. In a sense the price becomes more artificial the less volume is involved and the less liquidity is available. Sellers/shorters provide a very important function in the market, that is: liquidity which prevents the price from going too high, and also liqudity that prevents the price from going too low (shorters must close their short, traders who sell buy back). These opposing forces work beautifully to stabilize a market and avoid even higher and lower spikes that we would have had without them. The more opposing forces in a market the more stable it becomes. Stability is GOOD for the coin, not bad.

Can we think of any example where there are no sellers and shorters? Yes. Zcash. There was almost zero supply as it launched and no way to properly short, and the consequence of that was a launching price that went beyond 2 million USD. The ATH has been set and we'll never see prices even remotely close. If there had been sufficient amount of sellers or shorters, this would not have happened, the price would have reflected reality better. I don't think it's heatlhy for any coin to have such raises like we've seen in zcash. And as we've just witnessed, without sellers/shorters, that's what you're gonna get.


+1

The market is finding price properly.  Do we want to be zcash (no possibility to short)?

That which does not kill me, makes me strong...


我想要火箭和火车
iCEBREAKER
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070


Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


View Profile WWW
November 15, 2016, 10:30:49 PM
 #25075

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

Shorters (and their lenders) help Monero by

1)  Aiding stability and price discovery by providing liquidity, thus absorbing volatility and smoothing out spikes/dips, as KoziTwo explained in detail

2)  Encouraging wider distribution by filling bids when someone wants to borrow and dump, which aids Network Effect (Nielsen)

3)  Causing economic illiterates ("zomg I hate teh nasty shorters and hope tey get h4x0rd1!1!!") to self identify

4)  Increasing profits of the facilitating exchange; IE Polo benefits not only from XMR activity but also the ETH, etc. volume attracted as well, which encourages more exchange adaption via profit motive (you know the other exchanges are mad/jealous Polo is eating 41% of their ETH lunch while they fight over the leftovers)


██████████
█████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
████
████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
███████████████████████████
██████
██████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████████████
██████████████
████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
pa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 527
Merit: 501


View Profile
November 15, 2016, 10:58:45 PM
 #25076

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

Shorters (and their lenders) help Monero by

1)  Aiding stability and price discovery by providing liquidity, thus absorbing volatility and smoothing out spikes/dips, as KoziTwo explained in detail

2)  Encouraging wider distribution by filling bids when someone wants to borrow and dump, which aids Network Effect (Nielsen)

3)  Causing economic illiterates ("zomg I hate teh nasty shorters and hope tey get h4x0rd1!1!!") to self identify

4)  Increasing profits of the facilitating exchange; IE Polo benefits not only from XMR activity but also the ETH, etc. volume attracted as well, which encourages more exchange adaption via profit motive (you know the other exchanges are mad/jealous Polo is eating 41% of their ETH lunch while they fight over the leftovers)

I agree with all of that, and also KoziTwo's explanation, but what about simply selling with no intention of buying back, for example following Risto's Simple Saving System and selling X% of one's holdings after every Y-fold increase in price. That sounds sensible from a personal perspective, but wouldn't it be harmful to the project if all of the hodlers did that? Am I the only one who feels guilty when they sell moneroj? Maybe my error is thinking of Monero as a fragile thing that needs protecting. . .

kurious
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 1618



View Profile
November 15, 2016, 11:24:24 PM
 #25077

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

Shorters (and their lenders) help Monero by

1)  Aiding stability and price discovery by providing liquidity, thus absorbing volatility and smoothing out spikes/dips, as KoziTwo explained in detail

2)  Encouraging wider distribution by filling bids when someone wants to borrow and dump, which aids Network Effect (Nielsen)

3)  Causing economic illiterates ("zomg I hate teh nasty shorters and hope tey get h4x0rd1!1!!") to self identify

4)  Increasing profits of the facilitating exchange; IE Polo benefits not only from XMR activity but also the ETH, etc. volume attracted as well, which encourages more exchange adaption via profit motive (you know the other exchanges are mad/jealous Polo is eating 41% of their ETH lunch while they fight over the leftovers)

I agree with all of that, and also KoziTwo's explanation, but what about simply selling with no intention of buying back, for example following Risto's Simple Saving System and selling X% of one's holdings after every Y-fold increase in price. That sounds sensible from a personal perspective, but wouldn't it be harmful to the project if all of the hodlers did that? Am I the only one who feels guilty when they sell moneroj? Maybe my error is thinking of Monero as a fragile thing that needs protecting. . .



Don't worry - you're in the right place.  But XMR is anti-fragile, it can be shorted, therefore it only survives because it is good enough that people want to buy it.

This testing makes it strong and real.

It is unlike any other cryptocoin.

And it is growing in stature, just as Bitcoin did.

Let them sell and if the price is right we will buy.

我想要火箭和火车
ozkraut
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 522
Merit: 266


View Profile
November 16, 2016, 12:25:47 AM
 #25078

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

Shorters (and their lenders) help Monero by

1)  Aiding stability and price discovery by providing liquidity, thus absorbing volatility and smoothing out spikes/dips, as KoziTwo explained in detail

2)  Encouraging wider distribution by filling bids when someone wants to borrow and dump, which aids Network Effect (Nielsen)

3)  Causing economic illiterates ("zomg I hate teh nasty shorters and hope tey get h4x0rd1!1!!") to self identify

4)  Increasing profits of the facilitating exchange; IE Polo benefits not only from XMR activity but also the ETH, etc. volume attracted as well, which encourages more exchange adaption via profit motive (you know the other exchanges are mad/jealous Polo is eating 41% of their ETH lunch while they fight over the leftovers)

I agree with all of that, and also KoziTwo's explanation, but what about simply selling with no intention of buying back, for example following Risto's Simple Saving System and selling X% of one's holdings after every Y-fold increase in price. That sounds sensible from a personal perspective, but wouldn't it be harmful to the project if all of the hodlers did that? Am I the only one who feels guilty when they sell moneroj? Maybe my error is thinking of Monero as a fragile thing that needs protecting. . .



Don't worry - you're in the right place.  But XMR is anti-fragile, it can be shorted, therefore it only survives because it is good enough that people want to buy it.

This testing makes it strong and real.

It is unlike any other cryptocoin.

And it is growing in stature, just as Bitcoin did.

Let them sell and if the price is right we will buy.

This.

The inclusion in margin markets set the 'real' projects apart from the myriad of pretenders. It shows trust in the future viability and it is a strength not a weakness.

lol to point 3)  "Causing economic illiterates ("zomg I hate teh nasty shorters and hope tey get h4x0rd1!1!!") to self identify " (;-)

Monero - Wir sind die Leute vor denen uns unsere Eltern gewarnt haben!
saddambitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1610
Merit: 1004



View Profile
November 16, 2016, 01:50:50 AM
 #25079

Serious question: How do those of you who support the Monero project, i.e. want it to succeed, justify selling moneroj at this embryonic stage of the ecosystem's development? Doesn't selling moneroj weaken the Monero project by demoralizing and disincentivizing the entire ecosystem?

I'm not judging anyone here, just curious how traders who are also supporters of the Monero project (and not just profiteers) think. I'm a hodler by temperament.

I don't sell Monero, I spend it. Of course I have a holding stash and a spending stash, you might say. It makes me feel good to do at least one Monero transaction per day. Buying, selling, just keep the funds moving! Using Monero is what makes the economy grow. It's fantastic.

bbc.reporter
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1142



View Profile
November 16, 2016, 03:27:45 AM
 #25080

Zcash + syscoin together.. real decentralized marketplace with real anon... how will xmr react? Stay tuned...

Zcash and Syscoin together will be nothing to Monero fully accepted and actually widely used in the darknet market as second currency. Do not underestimate the amount of business that is going on in the darknet. That is a potential multi billion market because it is growing at much faster pace than before. If the black market participants learn about crypto and take their business and wares online thru the darknet, we could witness a boom in online markets outside of regulation with bitcoin and XMR already waiting in the middle.



     ▄▄▄████████▄▄▄
   ▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄
 ▄███▀            ▀██▀
▄███     ██▄▄
███      ██████▄▄
███      ██████▀▀
▀███     ██▀▀
 ▀███▄            ▄██▄
   ▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀
      ▀▀████████▀▀
oinplay▄█████████████████████████████▄
███████▀▀▀▀▀█████▀▀░░░░░▄██████
████▀▀░░░░░░░▀▀░░▄▄██░░████████
████▄▄░░░░░░░░░▄████░░█████████
███████▄▄▄▄▄░░██████░░█████████
███████████░░███████░░█████████
███████▀▀░░░░░░█▀▀░░░░░▀▀██████
██████░░░▄▄▄░░█░░░▄▄▄░░░░░█████
█████░░░██▀▀░█░░░██▀▀░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
██████░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░░█████
███████▄▄░░░░░░█▄▄░░░░░▄▄██████
▀█████████████████████████████▀
▄█████████████████████████████▄
██████████▀▀░░░░░░░▀▀██████████
██████▀▀▄▄███▄▄░▄▄███▄▄▀▀██████
█████░█████████░█████████░█████
████░░████████▀░▀████████░░████
██░░░▄▀▀▀██▀░░░░░▀██▀▀▀▄░░░███
██░▄█████▄░░░░░░░░░▄█████▄░███
██░███████▌░░░░░░░▐███████░███
████░███████░▄▄▄▄▄░███████░████
█████░▀▀▀▀▀▄███████▄▀▀▀▀▀░█████
██████▄▄░░░▀███████▀░░░▄▄██████
██████████▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▄██████████
▀█████████████████████████████▀
▄█████████████████████████████▄
██████████████▌░▐██████████████
██████████████▌░▐██████████████
██████████████▌░▐██████████████
██████▀░░░░▀██░░░██▀░░░░▀██████
██████▄▄▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄▄██████
█████▌░░░▄░░░░░░░░░░░▄░░░▐█████
█████░░░▀█▀░░▀▀░▀▀░░▀▄▀░░░█████
████▌░░░░░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░░░░░▐████
████░░░░░░▐█▄█████▄█▌░░░░░░████
███▌░░░░░░░█████████░░░░░░░▐███
████▄░░░░▄███████████▄░░░░▄████
▀█████████████████████████████▀
.
..PLAY & CLAIM THE BONUS!..
Pages: « 1 ... 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 1230 1231 1232 1233 1234 1235 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 1241 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 1253 [1254] 1255 1256 1257 1258 1259 1260 1261 1262 1263 1264 1265 1266 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 ... 2188 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!