[XMR] Monero Speculation

[CoinCidental]

Here is a list of the funders: http://zerocash-project.org/about_us

There are definitely some corporate & government ties.

those are the ones that we know about lol ...........
if i were running a dark market ,i sure wouldnt run it with ZEC
XMR all the way ! 

[moneyLooser]

I think it is prudent to waite to which level Zcash will settle and then buy some. I am pretty confident it will be valuable as well - it might even gain official currency status somewhere. The stength of Zcash is its community. Only the super pumped price prevents me from buying some.

For Monero, it is a currency for everyday people and probably chosen by drug dealers and drug addicts. Monero is a decent currency but I am afraid the Zcash has done things better. No, tech is not the most important thing and as we can see from the current system, Zcash type of solution with the brightest minds probably in the world + supposedly a lot of money backing is a way to success, but as I said, personally I would waite until the price settles somewhere and not to go all in. Buying just some in case of it will overtake Monero.

Somebody asked about the GUI, it will probably not be released any time soon (might be that the developers need to rebuy before the release).

You've written some complete twaddle over the years here but this is a complete new level of hypocritical, arrogant nonsense.

"everyday people....drug dealers and drug addicts".....you really do look down your nose at everyone don't you. 

And after so much time telling everyone what an advocate of XMR you are, it turns out all it needed was a quick scan of the ZCash website for you to turn into their number one fan.  "The brightest minds...in the world"....your lack of resolve is matched only by your feeblemindedness.

You really are a wretched, elitist individual who labours under the illusion of being important.

Nothing elite about him LMAO, have you seen his youtube video?

URL?

[TrueCryptonaire]

He has been flip flopping back an forth talking his book ever since he joined this thread, he was way more obnoxious in the beginning switching sentiment very often.

I see. As I am new since a few months ago I truly believed he was 100% for Monero. I was baffled at his latest post to be honest haha.

I am not 100 % for Monero.. I have been repeating it over and over again.
I have relatively diversified portfolio in general, not even close 100 % in XMR and as I have said it earlier it is stupid to invest in one asset class (unless you are a gambler and love taking risk even if you lose).
I think the future of Monero is still good with or without official GUI. The webwallet is decent and easy enough to use + you do not need to download anything to your desktop.

I am not flip flopping and I do not recommend to sell on the bottom, some of my bids are still untouched and most likely the majority will not be taken because that requires quite extreme volatility.

That being said, I have told long long time ago that I am interested in Z-cash and I see their strengths. I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts).
Z-cash most likely might be the choice for official currency like fiat is nowdays.
I think both Monero and Z-cash can coexists and I am considering investing a small amount of money (1-2 btc) into it in case it will become great.
The problem is the Zcash is waaaay over valued and I think the realist price for me to get in is around the same I got into XMR (0.00255 which is the break even price I have bought my Moneros).

[CoinCidental]

He has been flip flopping back an forth talking his book ever since he joined this thread, he was way more obnoxious in the beginning switching sentiment very often.

I see. As I am new since a few months ago I truly believed he was 100% for Monero. I was baffled at his latest post to be honest haha.

I am not 100 % for Monero.. I have been repeating it over and over again.
I have relatively diversified portfolio in general, not even close 100 % in XMR and as I have said it earlier it is stupid to invest in one asset class (unless you are a gambler and love taking risk even if you lose).
I think the future of Monero is still good with or without official GUI. The webwallet is decent and easy enough to use + you do not need to download anything to your desktop.

I am not flip flopping and I do not recommend to sell on the bottom, some of my bids are still untouched and most likely the majority will not be taken because that requires quite extreme volatility.

That being said, I have told long long time ago that I am interested in Z-cash and I see their strengths. I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts).
Z-cash most likely might be the choice for official currency like fiat is nowdays.
I think both Monero and Z-cash can coexists and I am considering investing a small amount of money (1-2 btc) into it in case it will become great.
The problem is the Zcash is waaaay over valued and I think the realist price for me to get in is around the same I got into XMR (0.00255 which is the break even price I have bought my Moneros).

no country will ever  be allowed to run on anonymous untraceable crypto cash
but i think your valuation on ZEC is fair
its a coin with no purpose outside speculation  as of yet but 0.00255 is $1.80 lol
a lotta people going to get burned if it falls that low

[nioc]

He has been flip flopping back an forth talking his book ever since he joined this thread, he was way more obnoxious in the beginning switching sentiment very often.

I see. As I am new since a few months ago I truly believed he was 100% for Monero. I was baffled at his latest post to be honest haha.

I am not 100 % for Monero.. I have been repeating it over and over again.
I have relatively diversified portfolio in general, not even close 100 % in XMR and as I have said it earlier it is stupid to invest in one asset class (unless you are a gambler and love taking risk even if you lose).
I think the future of Monero is still good with or without official GUI. The webwallet is decent and easy enough to use + you do not need to download anything to your desktop.

I am not flip flopping and I do not recommend to sell on the bottom, some of my bids are still untouched and most likely the majority will not be taken because that requires quite extreme volatility.

That being said, I have told long long time ago that I am interested in Z-cash and I see their strengths. I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts).
Z-cash most likely might be the choice for official currency like fiat is nowdays.
I think both Monero and Z-cash can coexists and I am considering investing a small amount of money (1-2 btc) into it in case it will become great.
The problem is the Zcash is waaaay over valued and I think the realist price for me to get in is around the same I got into XMR (0.00255 which is the break even price I have bought my Moneros).

As has been repeated many times the web wallet is for storing only small amounts.  It is a web wallet after all with all the vulnerabilities inherent with that design.

[nanobrain]

" I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts). "

You can't help yourself with the labels and the reductionist world view, can you.
Simple things, for simple minds.

[ozkraut]

" I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts). "

You can't help yourself with the labels and the reductionist world view, can you.
Simple things, for simple minds.

dont bother. He just accepts the framework spoon fed to him without critical thinking. He 'belongs' so to speak

[Shiroslullaby]

Unfortunately, its not an entirely wrong train of thought.
Who needs to buy things anonymously? People buying drugs or weapons on the darknet.
Most average people will just pay for things with a credit card.
Until you give people the ease of use that a nice GUI, the ability to change fiat back and forth to a currency, and things like this,
you have to think- what are the reasons people will use this currency?
For now Monero, and even Bitcoin, haven't given us much reason to adopt them other than to invest, sit on your coins, and hope they accumulate value.

[saddambitcoin]

Unfortunately, its not an entirely wrong train of thought.
Who needs to buy things anonymously? People buying drugs or weapons on the darknet.
Most average people will just pay for things with a credit card.
Until you give people the ease of use that a nice GUI, the ability to change fiat back and forth to a currency, and things like this,
you have to think- what are the reasons people will use this currency?
For now Monero, and even Bitcoin, haven't given us much reason to adopt them other than to invest, sit on your coins, and hope they accumulate value.

Those reasons are but a small example. Some people like to spend their XMR on completely legal items and services because they don't want their transactions and address balance being public for all to see.

Consider also people living under oppressive regimes that need to transfer money for whatever reason, without disclosing their identity. Journalists, whistleblowers, etc.

Businesses that don't want to have competitors analyzing their moves.

I'm tired of catering to the average person. Let's be great, better than average. A GUI is an important tool, I agree. When the average person is ready, they will come.

[Dafar]

As I said, Bitcoin is going down, as a sharp increase in unstable condition, I think will fall to $ 400-600 by the end of the year, further stabilization and, depending on the world economy a slight increase.

This is hilarious  

I think it is prudent to waite to which level Zcash will settle and then buy some. I am pretty confident it will be valuable as well - it might even gain official currency status somewhere. The stength of Zcash is its community. Only the super pumped price prevents me from buying some.

For Monero, it is a currency for everyday people and probably chosen by drug dealers and drug addicts. Monero is a decent currency but I am afraid the Zcash has done things better. No, tech is not the most important thing and as we can see from the current system, Zcash type of solution with the brightest minds probably in the world + supposedly a lot of money backing is a way to success, but as I said, personally I would waite until the price settles somewhere and not to go all in. Buying just some in case of it will overtake Monero.

Somebody asked about the GUI, it will probably not be released any time soon (might be that the developers need to rebuy before the release).

You've written some complete twaddle over the years here but this is a complete new level of hypocritical, arrogant nonsense.

"everyday people....drug dealers and drug addicts".....you really do look down your nose at everyone don't you. 

And after so much time telling everyone what an advocate of XMR you are, it turns out all it needed was a quick scan of the ZCash website for you to turn into their number one fan.  "The brightest minds...in the world"....your lack of resolve is matched only by your feeblemindedness.

You really are a wretched, elitist individual who labours under the illusion of being important.

Nothing elite about him LMAO, have you seen his youtube video?

I would like to see this

[PantminerS7]

Unfortunately, its not an entirely wrong train of thought.
Who needs to buy things anonymously? People buying drugs or weapons on the darknet.
Most average people will just pay for things with a credit card.
Until you give people the ease of use that a nice GUI, the ability to change fiat back and forth to a currency, and things like this,
you have to think- what are the reasons people will use this currency?
For now Monero, and even Bitcoin, haven't given us much reason to adopt them other than to invest, sit on your coins, and hope they accumulate value.

How about a big business wanting to buy anonymously as to not let their competitors know where they're buying from?
Or how about anonymous donations to political causes/parties or even charity? Or someone who wants to avoid having their credit card info floating around on the internet? Or someone who just simply enjoys privacy without necessarily doing anything illegal? Or someone who wants to store their money outside of traditional storage because of the uncertainty of the times (and what added bonus isn't anonymity?)?

The list goes on and on if you just put your mind to it. Of course, drugs and guns and rock n' roll will also easily fit into that list. However, there's more than just privacy in XMR; there's also all the 'conventional' arguements from bitcoin (cut the middle-men, trustless system, take money printing away from the state, etc.).

In the end, there's also the fact that fiat currency is currently #1 in criminal transactions. It was never about giving anyone something 'new'; cash already does what XMR does, minus the 'sending from anywhere to anywhere' aspect. It's not going to be fundamental whether or not the money used is anonymous; criminals will always find a way to do illegal things. Until cash is banned by our Google overlords, XMR will not be the driving factor of any criminal network. (And if it is the driving factor, the network will always want to transfer XMR -> cash)

[dreamspark]

While BTC rallies expect alts and XMR to fall, it happens every single time. I dont see it falling much below previous resistance at around 0.004 but I can definitely  see it reaching for there and testing it.

[DonYo]

If BTC goes up, XMR goes down
If BTC goes down, XMR goes down too
If BTC is plain, XMR does XMR things

[Dafar]

I am not 100 % for Monero.. I have been repeating it over and over again.
I have relatively diversified portfolio in general, not even close 100 % in XMR and as I have said it earlier it is stupid to invest in one asset class (unless you are a gambler and love taking risk even if you lose).
I think the future of Monero is still good with or without official GUI. The webwallet is decent and easy enough to use + you do not need to download anything to your desktop.

I am not flip flopping and I do not recommend to sell on the bottom, some of my bids are still untouched and most likely the majority will not be taken because that requires quite extreme volatility.

That being said, I have told long long time ago that I am interested in Z-cash and I see their strengths. I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts).
Z-cash most likely might be the choice for official currency like fiat is nowdays.
I think both Monero and Z-cash can coexists and I am considering investing a small amount of money (1-2 btc) into it in case it will become great.
The problem is the Zcash is waaaay over valued and I think the realist price for me to get in is around the same I got into XMR (0.00255 which is the break even price I have bought my Moneros).

This is hilarious. You've been buying "cheap" XMR from 0.022 all the way down. You called me out for making bearish posts on XMR back in Sept and claimed XMR is going to hit parity with BTC and now you're acting like you've been right the whole time.

Glad to see the price is up today, I hope it will continue to go back to its peak price. Still cannot realize any profit but at least I was able to minimize my loses, with it go back to 0.02 this month or not?

The chances are it will go over ATH at some point in the future. I am not sure when but the odds for that are surprisingly high.
Therefore, consider any price below parity with bitcoin as a discount. For instance, today the discount to the bitcoin is ~ 98.4 %.  
People buying XMR at current prices are literally paying pennies on the dollars and probably they are not aware of it even...  

Price of XMR: 0.016

Is the biggest risk to xmr a community launched zcash clone without the premine and founder tax, like how xmr began?

If I am honest, not many here are interested into Zcash so I do not see it even competing with XMR. Bear in mind, in order to succeed a coin needs network effect which is created by the community willing to buy and hodl - tech is not sufficient enough (we saw this from btc's first generation shitcoin alternatives).

So far Monero has a community that is willing to buy and hodl, and if the community keeps buying and holding, more people will join into the party and that will accelerate the network effect and price surge to the Moon^TM.

But yet you've been interested in Zcash "a long long time ago" and now you think it's superior to XMR  

[Hueristic]

I am not 100 % for Monero.. I have been repeating it over and over again.
I have relatively diversified portfolio in general, not even close 100 % in XMR and as I have said it earlier it is stupid to invest in one asset class (unless you are a gambler and love taking risk even if you lose).
I think the future of Monero is still good with or without official GUI. The webwallet is decent and easy enough to use + you do not need to download anything to your desktop.

I am not flip flopping and I do not recommend to sell on the bottom, some of my bids are still untouched and most likely the majority will not be taken because that requires quite extreme volatility.

That being said, I have told long long time ago that I am interested in Z-cash and I see their strengths. I think Monero serves a niche (junkies, criminals and other DNM clients and vendors + enthusiasts).
Z-cash most likely might be the choice for official currency like fiat is nowdays.
I think both Monero and Z-cash can coexists and I am considering investing a small amount of money (1-2 btc) into it in case it will become great.
The problem is the Zcash is waaaay over valued and I think the realist price for me to get in is around the same I got into XMR (0.00255 which is the break even price I have bought my Moneros).

This is hilarious. You've been buying "cheap" XMR from 0.022 all the way down. You called me out for making bearish posts on XMR back in Sept and claimed XMR is going to hit parity with BTC and now you're acting like you've been right the whole time.

Glad to see the price is up today, I hope it will continue to go back to its peak price. Still cannot realize any profit but at least I was able to minimize my loses, with it go back to 0.02 this month or not?

The chances are it will go over ATH at some point in the future. I am not sure when but the odds for that are surprisingly high.
Therefore, consider any price below parity with bitcoin as a discount. For instance, today the discount to the bitcoin is ~ 98.4 %.  
People buying XMR at current prices are literally paying pennies on the dollars and probably they are not aware of it even...  

Price of XMR: 0.016

Is the biggest risk to xmr a community launched zcash clone without the premine and founder tax, like how xmr began?

If I am honest, not many here are interested into Zcash so I do not see it even competing with XMR. Bear in mind, in order to succeed a coin needs network effect which is created by the community willing to buy and hodl - tech is not sufficient enough (we saw this from btc's first generation shitcoin alternatives).

So far Monero has a community that is willing to buy and hodl, and if the community keeps buying and holding, more people will join into the party and that will accelerate the network effect and price surge to the Moon^TM.

But yet you've been interested in Zcash "a long long time ago" and now you think it's superior to XMR  

TrueTroll never changes, It is still obvious when he's holding and now that he's divested his trolling is back.

He is the most 1 dimensional poster in the history of Crypto speculation. I find it amusing when the n00bs take his bullshit to heart even after being warned not to. Especially when all they have todo is do a search on this thread. Fools and their money...

On a side note who's a margin expert here? PM me please.

[pa]

If BTC goes up, XMR goes down
If BTC goes down, XMR goes down too
If BTC is plain, XMR does XMR things

It seems like one of the XMR things is to go down when Zcash goes up. Given Zcash's low supply, its price is easily manipulable, which will surely lead to high volatility for Zcash and for XMR. This may be disconcerting in the short term, but in the longer term should lead to greater speculative interest in XMR.

[ArticMine]

...
It seems like one of the XMR things is to go down when Zcash goes up. Given Zcash's low supply, its price is easily manipulable, which will surely lead to high volatility for Zcash and for XMR. This may be disconcerting in the short term, but in the longer term should lead to greater speculative interest in XMR.

ZCash is effectively trying to do the impossible, by trying to have a significant market capitalization with a minuscule money supply in the short term. Sure $3,915,552 market cap; $1,562 per ZEC and 2,507 ZEC total supply. All this is doing is setting up the early investors for a massive fall once the emission picks up steam in a few months.

Seriously 1.50 USD or even 0.15 USD per ZEC is not unrealistic as a low for this coin in the next 6 - 9 months. This is based solely on the economics of the ZCash emission curve, without implying any fundamental failure in the technology, the developers or the coin itself.  We are talking here of over 10^6 or possibly over 10^7 fall from its peak at ~2.4 Million USD per ZEC. This could shape up to be one mega bear market.

[Dafar]

...
It seems like one of the XMR things is to go down when Zcash goes up. Given Zcash's low supply, its price is easily manipulable, which will surely lead to high volatility for Zcash and for XMR. This may be disconcerting in the short term, but in the longer term should lead to greater speculative interest in XMR.

ZCash is effectively trying to do the impossible, by trying to have a significant market capitalization with a minuscule money supply in the short term. Sure $3,915,552 market cap; $1,562 per ZEC and 2,507 ZEC total supply. All this is doing is setting up the early investors for a massive fall once the emission picks up steam in a few months.

Seriously 1.50 USD or even 0.15 USD per ZEC is not unrealistic as a low for this coin in the next 6 - 9 months. This is based solely on the economics of the ZCash emission curve, without implying any fundamental failure in the technology, the developers or the coin itself.  We are talking here of over 10^6 or possibly over 10^7 fall from its peak at ~2.4 Million USD per ZEC. This could shape up to be one mega bear market.

I hope so, because fuck everything about ZEC. Early "insider" investors, 20% of all supply goes to founders, "trusted" setup...  everything about it is shady.

As far as I understand XMR's RingCT essentially has the same features ZEC has

[bitebits]

[...]
It is fair to call me a "permabull" in the sense that even when I have bearish short term views, I have persistent bullish longer term views.  In fact any short term views I may have, are very loosely held, because I don't generally have better information than the market, so I should in the main defer to the market on short-term discounting.  I think I have a better ability to grasp the bigger picture than the market has demonstrated, so I have stronger long-term bullish views.  So far experience has borne out my estimates regarding the longer term arc of Monero developments, but that is no guarantee of future performance.  I am perfectly capable of imagining extreme scenarios of upside which are highly unlikely to occur.  Yet I consider their possibility to be non-negligible, in general.

I don't think I have ever recommended anyone to buy Monero at a time when it would have taken them more than a year to double their money, if they did as I suggested, and DCA'd.  I was recommending BTC at very bad times, and it has taken years for those recommendations to come out from under water.  I felt bad about that, so I am more cautious now, when making recommendations.  I definitely do recommend buying Monero, here, now.  Anything under 0188 is cheap, IMHO.  Under $10, a steal.  If you are underweight, buy it.  In general, people with lower risk tolerance should expect to DCA over a year or more to minimize average draw-downs.

RemindMe! 1 year (hope to see you actively speculating again when Monero starts it's next uptrend)

Maybe, in the meanwhile, can I remind you there is a non speculation Monero thread as well?

[explorer]

...

On a side note who's a margin expert here? PM me please.

the first rule:

to make a small fortune margin trading,
 start with a large one.