[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Millionero]

Bulletproofs: Efficient Range Proofs for Confidential Transactions

http://web.stanford.edu/~buenz/pubs/bulletproofs.pdf

Bulletproofs could at least halve the size of Monero transaction.

I know this is just a research and even if is by any chance 100% correct will not be added to Monero for at least a year. But what is important is that it exist, and I am sure there will be tens or hundred similar in the future. And each of them will reduce transaction size and with that reduce Monero blockchain growth. Monero blockchain growth is one of biggest worries people have when think what would today happen if Monero would have same amount of transactions as Bitcoin does.

I found Section 4.6 interesting

Bulletproofs, like the range proofs currently used in confidential transactions,
are computationally binding. An adversary that could break the discrete logarithm
assumption could generate acceptable range proofs for a value outside the
correct range. On the other hand, the commitments are perfectly hiding and
Bulletproofs are perfect zero-knowledge, so that even an all powerful adversary
cannot learn which value was committed to. Commitment schemes which are
simultaneously perfectly-binding and perfectly-hiding commitments are impossible,
so when designing commitment schemes and proof systems, we need to
decide which properties are more important. For cryptocurrencies, the binding
property is more important than the hiding property [RM]. An adversary that
can break the binding property of the commitment scheme or the soundness of
the proof system can generate coins out of thin air and thus create uncontrolled
but undetectable inflation rendering the currency useless. Giving up the privacy
of a transaction is much less harmful as the sender of the transaction or
the owner of an account is harmed at worst. Unfortunately, it seems difficult
to create Bulletproofs from binding commitments.

[walonek]

You priests still there beliving and making choices after your feelings? How do you fell walking at the total USD edge? You love the USD price and it is on the edge for 1,5 month now reaching the trendline edge. 60 USD is near. The same is with BTC price. 0.01 this week. I am for 65% sure 0.01 will not hodl and 0.006 will be seen before btc fork. Then i bet bad things happen to BTC and the price will surge a lotdown. This will bring all alts down a lot more than you think. But be there... belive. You are good food form my shorting strategy.

Did I mention that masses does not price privacy? Did i mention that masses price SECURITY? Masses sell their privacy for security and that is the answer I discovered when I was wondering why this noMore is sitting at its value in BTC. Answer is that noMore is not technologicaly advanced comparing to other major alts and privacy it is marketing is total bullshit to masses... Masses does not want privacy they want fast and secure value transfers. noMore is not focused at it. That is why it is shit. Privacy is not priced... Ask your neighbour - "if you have nothing to hide, why to hide?" - regular answer.

[walonek]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

[doc12]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

Good Luck. Late performance may be bad, but xmr is still one of the Top5 projects in crypto. Not just some copy n paste Shit with fancy features. Nothing failed here, private untracable transaction working like a charm.

And privacy matters, of course not for the average Joe, but for people with large amounts of money. Nothing new you are babbling here.

[cynical]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

I have been watching the charts on bittrex over the last 4 or 5 weeks and two coins that stand out in their lower rankings of the top 10 are litecoin and MONERO.
neither of these coins are what i would call pump&dump, if anything they are too stable for people who want to trade them and make a profit.

[starmman]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

I have been watching the charts on bittrex over the last 4 or 5 weeks and two coins that stand out in their lower rankings of the top 10 are litecoin and MONERO.
neither of these coins are what i would call pump&dump, if anything they are too stable for people who want to trade them and make a profit.

If the trend with segwit2x will be anything like the BCC fork, then there will likely be a massive surge in price in 10-12 days. Will be interesting to see if it happens again.

[trobin]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

I have been watching the charts on bittrex over the last 4 or 5 weeks and two coins that stand out in their lower rankings of the top 10 are litecoin and MONERO.
neither of these coins are what i would call pump&dump, if anything they are too stable for people who want to trade them and make a profit.

If the trend with segwit2x will be anything like the BCC fork, then there will likely be a massive surge in price in 10-12 days. Will be interesting to see if it happens again.

Any coin that can remain stable in the current environment is doing so for a reason and that reason is because Monero is here for the long term, I expect the trend will be followed and the price will rise nicely in the next month

[walonek]

@doc12 Shorting ShortMeMore = noMore = this crap coin. I love to make money of failed projects like this pump&dump.

I have been watching the charts on bittrex over the last 4 or 5 weeks and two coins that stand out in their lower rankings of the top 10 are litecoin and MONERO.
neither of these coins are what i would call pump&dump, if anything they are too stable for people who want to trade them and make a profit.

You watched what? You know that you can short against BTC right? Stable crap which lost ~60% of value in last 6 weeks LOL. Meanwhile BTC is starting to falldown after the bubling. Now i expect comments at this crap like: "OMFG NoMore is the king! We have green dick at chart" etc. Just wait. If someone does not know the green dick range is 0.014 atm. Break of this can mean more green dicks.

No i will not long this crap. I will long other more promising project which should perform a lot better than this ShortMeMore at next alt surge. After the bubbling of alts i will short again XMR. It performs the best when shorting against BTC. NoMore is eXMRly predictable at shorting .

[Febo]

https://themerkle.com/moneros-multisignature-implementation-officially-enters-testing-phase/

JP Buntinx says:  The future’s looking bright for all XMR supporters, ...

[Nathan047]

Did I mention that masses does not price privacy? Did i mention that masses price SECURITY?

First of all, many people do value privacy. Second, why not have both (like in the case of Monero).


--

Privacy is not priced... Ask your neighbour - "if you have nothing to hide, why to hide?" - regular answer.

The Germans kept records of people’s ethnicity and religion. Guess how Hitler used it (in case you’re a bad guesser: he used it to track down Jews).

[Anon136]

And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

I do that all the time. Is it taboo?

I don't think so, we are a community of friends who all help out. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks guys, I was indeed just answering in an effort to help.  I hope we will all continue to do so - many people on here have helped me out before and I really appreciated it.

What goes around...

Who flagged my post and got it deleted? And why? Anyone else having perfectly innocuous posts deleted by mods? Very strange.

[cAPSLOCK]

And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

I do that all the time. Is it taboo?

I don't think so, we are a community of friends who all help out. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks guys, I was indeed just answering in an effort to help.  I hope we will all continue to do so - many people on here have helped me out before and I really appreciated it.

What goes around...

Who flagged my post and got it deleted? And why? Anyone else having perfectly innocuous posts deleted by mods? Very strange.

I had this happen too.  Mine was a post expressing approval to Fluffypony for his beat down on the trolls.

This *unreasonable* censorship is one reason why I am moving away from bitcointalk to reddit (plus it is fun that no one knows who I am there ).  I do not believe my post violated any rules.  I doubt yours did either.

[starmman]

And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

I do that all the time. Is it taboo?

I don't think so, we are a community of friends who all help out. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks guys, I was indeed just answering in an effort to help.  I hope we will all continue to do so - many people on here have helped me out before and I really appreciated it.

What goes around...

Who flagged my post and got it deleted? And why? Anyone else having perfectly innocuous posts deleted by mods? Very strange.

I had this happen too.  Mine was a post expressing approval to Fluffypony for his beat down on the trolls.

This *unreasonable* censorship is one reason why I am moving away from bitcointalk to reddit (plus it is fun that no one knows who I am there ).  I do not believe my post violated any rules.  I doubt yours did either.

I think that entire thread chain was deleted - I got a similar message too =)

[walonek]

Did I mention that masses does not price privacy? Did i mention that masses price SECURITY?

First of all, many people do value privacy. Second, why not have both (like in the case of Monero).


--

Privacy is not priced... Ask your neighbour - "if you have nothing to hide, why to hide?" - regular answer.

The Germans kept records of people’s ethnicity and religion. Guess how Hitler used it (in case you’re a bad guesser: he used it to track down Jews).

Argumentum ad hitlerum. Lol. It is going to be bullshit. Maybe my English is not good but you know i mentioned masses not many people. Secondly ppl have short memory?
It means realy that price will go down the drain like nsdap.

[kurious]

And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

I do that all the time. Is it taboo?

I don't think so, we are a community of friends who all help out. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks guys, I was indeed just answering in an effort to help.  I hope we will all continue to do so - many people on here have helped me out before and I really appreciated it.

What goes around...

Who flagged my post and got it deleted? And why? Anyone else having perfectly innocuous posts deleted by mods? Very strange.

Same here (and the same thread).

Am scratching my head too, seems pretty innocuous stuff.

[smooth]

The discussion of forum mods is off topic. If you have objections to their work, take it to Meta please (where they are also more likely to see it)

[iCEBREAKER]

Personally, I think s2x will be the longest chain, because BTC hash rate will be inadequate to keep up.

BTC hash rate responds to economics.  Within the incentive structure designed by Satoshi, as tx fees pile up and compete "inadequate" hash rate is a self-correcting problem.

Users will use the chain with lower fees, where you can actually get a confirm before your beard turns white.  Core will suffer a massive difficulty bomb, and if 80% of the hash is on s2x, it will take 4x longer to get a confirm.  Also, there will be more xns in an s2x block, so miners are incentivized by the total fees, even when fees are only ~50% of the fees on core.

I don't really care which one wins, but I am taking a flyer on s2x for these reasons.  Not in 250 BTC size, however.  I am just buying the b2x futures.  There I can also daytrade a bit to lower my cost basis, which I cannot do with Back's contract.

If (Frappuchino swilling retail) users only cared about lower fees and faster confirms, they would by now surely be using Digibyte or Dash.

Yet, there is something (cough, immutable uncensorable decentralized store of value, cough) that keeps them using Bitcoin despite it being slow and expensive.

You still aren't understanding how Satoshi's exquisitely balanced incentive structure restricts your scenario to a self-limiting, auto-correcting situation.

I think what you're missing is that currently the main use of Bitcoin for most "Users" is HODLING.  The Xapo/Bitpay payment rail stuff is just a noisy minority LARPing as 'disruptive' fintech, not a plurality.

Let's try again, in BASIC pseudocode.


10 "Massive" hash rate leaves Bitcoin for Bcash/Bcash2X/LatestControversialFork
20 Users fear "massive difficulty bomb"
30 Users rush to dump Bitcoin for Ethereum or whatever shiny scheisstoken is being hyped by a celebrity/DCG affiliate
40 Fees accumulate in proportion to the number of panic-dumping users moving coins onto exchanges, increasing incentives to mine Bitcoin blocks
50 (Replacy-by-)Fees compete and spiral upward as Users panic buy Bitcoin blockchain space/priority in their stampede for the exits, again increasing incentive to mine Bitcoin blocks
60 A Bitcoin block is mined, relieving concern (trolling) that Honey Badger has been killed by (muuuuuh) massive difficulty bomb
70 Price of Bitcoin rises as panic selling finds a bottom and bounces off support, yet again increasing incentive to mine Bitcoin blocks
80 In Two Weeks(tm) Bitcoin difficulty adjusts accordingly and Hodlers (IE the real socioeconomic majority) come back from vacation wondering what all the fuss was about
90 GOTO 10


If I thought there was a good chance of B2X killing Core, I'd dump all my Bitcoin since that would be the resolution of the (initial) Bitcoin experiment and it would no longer have a reason to exist.

Why do you find Bitcoin interesting enough to own if you believe it may easily be subverted by a consortium of (ratfucking) VCs and banksters?

Regardless, the real black swan in the living room is the possibility of a PoW change.

If the unthinkable happens and 2X wins, it doesn’t mean Bitcoin has been “changed”, it means Bitcoin has been temporarily destroyed, and we need to get to work to collectively recreate it. We won’t surrender and we won’t compromise. A new hard fork will be released with a new PoW algorithm and we’ll carry on as normal.

Those that urge we accept the verdict of the market are missing the entire point of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is about individual financial sovereignty; we don’t let any external entity such as the market, miners, central bank or government define for us what is and isn’t a Bitcoin. If we don’t like the 2X abomination, we can reject it and route around it. We aren’t forced to surrender.

The market and exchanges should be prepared to support three different forks of Bitcoin this November. The original chain, the 2X chain, and the new Bitcoin chain with a better PoW. As soon as the new PoW hard fork binaries are released on Bitcoin.org, I intend to fully commit to supporting that chain and calling it “Bitcoin”, even if hash rate returns to the original chain at a later date.

You don't really think we'd let philistine scum like NewJeff/Barry/Roger/Jihan desecrate Bitcoin without activating our Samson Option, do you?

Best of luck with your attack fork pumps!  If you do manage to boost Bcash and/or B2X over BTC parity, I look forward to dumping mine for more Monero!

[Tyr808]

With the latest flee of capitals for the bitcoin fork and the anoncoin attention having been temporarily redirected to zencoin thanks to palms beach recommendations, XMR lost traction and now seems to be time to a good buying range for XMR (at the moment 86$).

I agree. XMR has privacy advantages and more long term potential. Hopefully investors see the light.

Also in terms of supporting evidence in various experiments and research, Monero is just ten steps ahead of the competition and this has been demonstrated times and times again.
I still think that ZEN was underpriced, but yet the only solid anonymous coins one should be looking at as a safe investment is XMR at present stage.
Interesting however what Assange said about ZEC.

[garytheasshole]

And why did you answer the question I asked aminorex?

I do that all the time. Is it taboo?

I don't think so, we are a community of friends who all help out. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks guys, I was indeed just answering in an effort to help.  I hope we will all continue to do so - many people on here have helped me out before and I really appreciated it.

What goes around...

Who flagged my post and got it deleted? And why? Anyone else having perfectly innocuous posts deleted by mods? Very strange.

Same here (and the same thread).

Am scratching my head too, seems pretty innocuous stuff.

Only trolls are allowed to post here apparently. Anyway happy I've reached my $88 target!

[Dotto]

And finally, some mambo